No comparison........LOTR

Hobbit code isn't even close to being complete yet and the code is being done by the same programmer, Keith Johnson, that did the code for LOTR. Hobbit has far newer tech (multiple LCD displays + RGB lighting), more mechs / toys and will have close to twice the modes as LOTR has when the code is finished. LOTR is one of the best pins ever made and will be tough to beat but I think The Hobbit will give it a run for it's money, especially since Keith is on the games rules. Keith is putting some really unique rules in TH's code (I played the latest code today) that makes the game a lot of fun.

It's difficult to compare both games right now as The Hobbit's code isn't complete while the code for LOTR is. I have friends that didn't like playing WOZ due to early code and then did a complete 180 once the code was finished.

I haven't played TH, but LOTR is one of the best games ever made. Just like the movies, I have a feeling LOTR is going to wind up being superior to TH. Then again if you like the new technology, go with The Hobbit. If it were me, I'd get LOTR, and then wait to get TH in a year or so when the code is polished.

I'd say go with LOTR. Already know its a great game with deep code. Can always sell LOTR or something else to get a Hobbit later on down the road.

How is that? One of the main "problems" I have with TH is the almost complete absence of interactive toys. Apart from the trolls I see zero toys in this game. TH may have a lot going on for it, but I'm a toy fan and love mechanical wizardry which i'm painfully missing in TH.

Also LotR really picks up the theme in layout and shot design, matching the shots characteristics to the figures they represent from the movie. The single shots on TH are extremely abstract and are lacking a distinct and unique feel to me.

The controlled drop targets are cool, but in the end they're just drop targets, nothing one really gets exited about.

TH will become better with code over time, but i don't think it will completely overcome it's shortcomings in design & layout. LotR on the other hand is one of those games where the stars aligned and everything just magically fell in the perfect place.

You can't miss with LOTR. Who knows how TH will finally wind up.

Lord of the rings is king!!!!

I voted for LOTR too but a number of games have been played to death. Make sure you get a nice example because routed pins have been played a lot. LOTR was (is) appreciated by many. It earned well and stayed on location for longer than usual.

LOTR here! I have not played TH but have seen it played at chi expo last year.
I am a big fan of interactive toys on the pf. The ramp shot with the magnet is sweet and battling balrog is fun. But really all one has to say is George Gomez and its a sell for me! lol
As for TH, there is lots of unused space on the pf. Surprised really compared to woz, he took advantage of the widebody and put it to good use. TH just lacks in that aspect, could have used a upper pf with two mini flippers and made it like the barrel scene in the movie. Where they battle to get down the river.

LOTR would have been a snooze fest though if it wasn't for Keith Johnson's rules. He brought Georges Layout alive with incredible code and will end up doing the same with TH. I thought TH lacked toys early on as well but playing it again last night reminded me just how much the game has going on it that is just now being brought out with code.

Agreed! Even with code though I still think TH could use more PF action. Jack could have saved money if he would have went with a reg body with as much that's on there.

I can't see the current design fitting into a standard body game, not with everything that's in it. I'm a huge fan of interactive toys as well and originally thought TH lacked them as well but after playing it more I've realized that it really does have a lot going on in it. For example I played the new Beast Frenzy mode last night which incorporates all 4 pop ups with Keith's classic style of rules, it's a very fun mode. When the pop ups are activated, Smaug is in use, and the drop targets are going up and down for certain shots the game can get awfully crazy pretty quick.

Keith is also doing some great code work that takes advantage of the lockdown bar button that I've never seen before. The lockdown buttons use is far more interesting / interactive then any other game the feature has been used on. The lockdown button can be used to save balls, interact with the windlance kick back (controlling amount of power to the kickback) and do so while also interacting with animations on the LCD. I can't wait to see what else he does with it. Overall with a Keith game, especially one like WOZ or TH, you are getting a ton of value from his code work alone. The value factor goes up even more with this title when with JP doing animation work (looks awesome on both screens) and David Thiels audio work (with Two Steps From Hell music).

From a Keith post below regarding what TH offers.

11 unprecedented full control drop targets
4 pop-up beast targets
4 ball diverters
2 magnets for catching/diverting balls
Player controlled kickback ball launch
31 totally different modes giving unprecedented breath
4 player selectable drop targets
Ring button with constantly changing game context sensitive uses
3 mini wizard modes
3 major wizard modes
1 super wizard mode
Industry leading graphics on 1080p monitor
Over 60 full rgb inserts
Bunch of white gi

Bah, all your fancy pop-ups! I keed,I keed.
I would still take bashing balrog any day!

Lol, LOTR is an incredible game. A cousin of mine has had one since around 2003-2004, loves it and he estimates he has around 5k plays on it (has 4k on it right now before he did a code update a while back). Late last year he reached Valinor. It's just cool that after 10+ years of ownership he was still seeing new things in the game. That's what I like best about Keith's games, they are like an adventure that gives the player this quest like feeling as they play through the game.

And zero memorable shots. We talk about certain that are like a chess match. The Hobbit literally PLAYS as fast as a game of chess. I wanted to like it but wow, it's shockingly bare.

There is no Ring shot. No tight Aragorn shot. No Gimli hole. No Orthanc. Etc. I played 5000 games on LOTR before I finally sold her. Keith's LOTR programming is awesome, but the layout is the key. LOTR is the perhaps the best pin or all time because it has something most pins DON'T have:

Multiball Flow.

You can hit every major shot in the game during multiball without having to catch and cradle and slow everything down. You can throw balls toward the ring or the two loops to get them out of the way while you try to hit main multiball shots. Stack the modes and multi balls together. And nothing has to slow down. It's designed to work this way. It's a rush. And it's awesome.

Software can help make a game play more interesting, but cannot change the way a physical layout is designed to play.

One day I'll reach Valinor, but it will be in LOTRVE form.

Can you expand upon this please? Specifically, how does the shots make you feel like the figures from the movies/books? I love LoTR, I own a HUO example and it will never leave. But can you explain how hitting that Gimli saucer makes you feel like its a badass dwarf that is single handedly carrying the lineage of his great family? That is kind of lost on me. For the record, I do have a hobbit SE on order.

I've owned LOTR since 2004. Its a classic! Went to allentown last week fearful that after playing hobbit I would fall in love and feel like I had to add it to my collection. It beautiful there's no debating that but I was underwhelmed to say the least. After leaving the show I asked the two people I went with what they thought. Everyone agreed we like WOZ better and I'm not sure i would even add that to my collection. I guess we will see what happens when the code progresses. I remember playing MET when it first came out and being less than thrilled. Got one back in January and its now one of my all time favorites.

Way to early to tell on Hobbit. Way too early.
LOTR was been out for years and finished.

Star Wars movies: Emoire Strikes Back vs Return of the Jedi.

Hobbit is getting a lot of criticism now with the associated drama of a long production cycle. TZ was considered a total failure when it was released. Although Hobbit is the lesser movie and game in my view, time may judge differently.

The trademark physical skill of the dwarfs is exact throwing and catching, that's why the Gimli saucer is a soft skillful shot. If you just try to bash it in the saucer it will bounce out the back. That's a feature, not a bug.
Legolas is known for his slick movements in battle, his ramp is very fast, slick and elegantly winding.
Aragorn is a swordsman to a great extent, so his shot is edgy like a sword strike.
Even the Gandalf shot resemble an old man - wobbly as it is most of the time.
The path the dead is winding and full of obstacles....well, you get the idea by now.

The ring shot with the jump ramp is the "main attraction" of the game, unique and very special - just like the ring and connected to that Frodo in the movies.

That's what extremely well done theme integration looks like. That's what i miss in TH (sadly, because the machine looks great) - real integration instead of abstract shots combined with huge commotion on the display(s). Even Smaug himself feels more like a narrator than a part of the game itself.

LOTR for now.

Let's come back in a year for a re-vote and see if a code-complete Hobbit can compete.

Yeah this poll will be a landslide. LOTR is a much better game and infinitely better set of movies.

You know what? I absolutely stand corrected. All of those points are spot on and make sense. I guess I lack a little bit of those analytical skills sometimes. Thanks for typing that out, it will definitely make an impact on how I view those shots in terms of relating to the theme.

Listen to your friends and family.

Also, age of LOTR is a non-issue. We're not talking EM and early SS here. It's a relatively new pin.

LOTR is simple amazing.

LOTR, still the best game stern ever did.

Just want to come in here and share my opinion. I cannot say anything about TH as I only played it last time in 2014, but I can say that I owned LOTR two times.

First time I bought it, I really disliked it. Very easy skillshot, every shot was fairly easy to make, but you need to repeat everything a gazillion times to get to the end. Ultimately that is the same for every pin, but I just found LOTR boring. So much so that every time I got on Path of the Dead I just wanted to walk away. Just did not want to see the pathetic bounce onto the Arwen plastic or prepare for 50 minutes of balltime. Also I could not play it with friends because they are all fairly ok players, so everyone had to wait VERY long on its turn.

I sold the first and kept on reading everywhere how great LOTR was, just like I read here now, so when I got the chance to buy a real HUO I took a chance and bought it thinking that I would maybe two years later see what was so great.

Long story short: I really did not like it at all so sold it after two weeks.

This is not a hate story for LOTR, just another sound to let the OP know that not everyone can get into LOTR and that there are disadvantages about the game. Actually I really wanted to like LOTR because I am a fan of Tolkien, but the click just was not there.

Too early to tell until code on TH is much more developed. Right now LOTR but once code is finished for TH, who knows? I like both games.

LOTR simply has a lot more possible shots to go for. TH is pretty sparse by comparison and has considerably fewer shots.

please explain

Wife and I played both at replayfx last summer. It was hard to go back and play lotr after we got to try TH. We both love the entire series, and so both machines appealed to us. While lotr is a great pin, it just didn't do it for us. With the new rules on TH out, it just seems more epic, and it simply makes lotr look dated. I pick TH, as it is going to be great if it isn't already.

I think the term, with each code update, is Epic-er!

I'm a JJP fanboy, and I'm going to say LOTR. Look, LOTR is one of the greatest games ever made. Hobbit may be some day, and I'm hearing good things about the code that just dropped. But right this moment LOTR is one of the best. Get one. Then if Hobbit comes out how I think it will, switch over. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Right now it is an easy call: LOTR. Too early to say how good the hobbit will be.

The Hobbit... Jersey Jack is just a step above Stern

It's pinball so it's going to break regardless of technology. LOTR is probably one of the best pins ever so it's hard to compare TH to it at this point. Nevertheless, JP is making a collector quality game. I have loved the themes since I was a kid so these tables appeal to me much more than GB or GOT. Most people that don't like LOTR is due to the extended ball time from the design. For me, I think LOTR is the best Stern game ever bar none. I'm in on both....in fact, I'm in on TH squared. I have an LE and SE coming at the end of the month. If you and your family likes the theme then own both.

Way to early to tell on hobbit. I actually like both sterns and jjp pins a lot. But right now lotr cuz it's complete. I like what they are doing with th though. Time dude time

No comparison...never played the Hobbit.

Own LOTR, have TH on order. Two mostly different games, that I expect (hope is a better word I suppose) will compliment each other.

If you're looking for a punishingly quick game, look elsewhere. If you're looking for an adventure - these two pins will give you exactly that I suspect.

Since LOTR is out of production (VE speculation ignored for the moment) and you will most likely be able to get a TH Standard for the next year or two, I'd get LOTR if I were you. If you and the family end up not liking it, you could sell it to fund a new TH Standard.

One thing that I have come to realize is that variety is the spice of life - so I'm going to be looking for another pin after I get TH. Don't intend on selling either LOTR or TH.

I find the playfield layout and shots on LOTR so much more entertaining. It's no contest in my book.

Yeah, you can add a bunch of modes and video, but the boring playfield remains.

I can't believe this is a serious question.

A step above in what way? Price? Weight? Wait?

"Wait?" - I'm not going to defend JJP there. It has taken entirely too long for Woz/Hobbit and most owners would agree. JJP games do seem to have a better feel as you play them- a quality feel some will understand, others won't. Jack has set out from the beginning to make a sort of Cadillac of pinball machines, price be damned. But sometimes I like a just in your face fun, exciting game and Stern has
really come up with some excellent titles lately. I own a WOZ, GBpre on order.

This is a perfect. There just is no contest.

Pippin
Merry
Sam
Frodo
Aragorn
Gimli
Legolas
Gandalf
Boromir
Palantir
Orthanac
Barad-Dur
Sword Lock
4 Inlane Rollovers
3 Rollover Lanes
The Balrog
The friggin' Ring

Mic drop.

Any new thoughts on this? If someone was looking at an LOTR LE vs Hobbit Smaug for the same price is there a clear winner?

Has the new code for The Hobbit created any new fans.

Thanks

John

I think it's a tie overall. Hobbit wins on sound, video, artwork, but LOTR wins on rules. Both are a lot of fun to play. I find th to be more immersive, though dtr is one of the coolest modes in all of pinball.