Wasn't that South Park?

Nope, only 3500ish South Parks...

Looks like it was Twilight Zone.

And this is why the ignore function is the best feature on Pinside. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to use it.

I actually dont know... I was hoping someone here knew it

IS there a listing somewhere, especially for Stern titles? I dont see any of those production numbers listed here on the pinside top100...

Apparently, this is the place to coddle folks and pretend that not getting a pinball machine is the end of the world since you received numerous down thumbs.

Troy

The guys who want a lower number and pay extra to do so, make me laugh hardcore. With pinball, you don't want to first ones out of the line. Think about it. What games are going to have all the problems and defects? The first ones. It isn't until way later they realize certain materials and designs are flawed and fix them. So you get number 1. Great, now you have a ton of crap wrong that someone that waited until the end or even a run or 2 later, they fixed. Some of those issues are major and cannot be fixed such as cloudy windows. Many of you are new and come into this hobby trying to collect it like comics or coins. Doesn't work that way in this world. This is the opposite of any other collecting market out there. Older doesn't mean more valuable. Rarer doesn't mean more value, and early means more problems. Fun factor doesn't always come into play as hype overpowers fun many times.

I think there should be 750 LE's. 500 US only. 250 Overseas.

Nelson Laugh, HA<HA!!!!! Stern needs to make an LE bottle!

Every variation of a product costs money. It costs far less to modify a product that is already in production. Car companies figured it out, when a model is at the end of run, they load them up with options since the options and tooling are paid for. Stern starting production with (in this case 4 different Metallicas) is losing money.

IOW, there would be plenty of people that would buy early, sell when the zooted up end of production "special edition" model came along. They're "collectors".

I think you're dead wrong. So does Stern (who presumable knows EXACTLY what their incremental manufacturing costs are better than you or I).

Stern has "presold" over $3M worth of product.
They have created insane BUZZ around it.
They've obviously surveyed the excess LE demand and will likely now be able to sell even MORE Premiums. because of it.

And you think Stern is losing money on this? because, what, they have to change tooling?

This isn't some mass produced item that runs 100,000 units in some completely automated, in-the-dark manufacturing site. And they arent retooling yo make this change, they are just assembling it with a (VERY) few nearly identical parts:

How complicated is switching from a LE to a premium?

Um:
1. Grab LE cabinet & trim from pallet A instead of pallet B
2. Grab LE translite from bin A instead of bin B
3. Grab LE signed PF from bin 1 instead of identical unsigned PF from bin #2
4. Assemble.
5. Oh yeah, bolt on $2 numbered plate.
5. Box it up.

Thanks that is easy - one response and ignored. IM glad your feelings were hurt responding to Frolic. Enjoy your 1st world problems. HA

Same thing with cars Neo, first time they change a model or redo it, normally the first 1000 cars have a ton of issues. One year later all have been mainly ironed out. I am stoked to be down on the list for my LE, gives them more time to screw up and make a fix, HELLO AVENGERS RELEASE BLACKWIDOW RAMP ISSUES HULK ISSUES>GAME ISSUES. Anyways you need to know this stuff or you end up with "my NIB just came and it exploded into bits". Well yeah kind of like that. (Now to go find wood to knock on)Do not want a cursed game.

p.s. LOL AC/DC lower playfield issues in BIB and LTBR and pro and guess what not on my premium, no reason to forget this issue either.

Oh I know. that's why I laugh at the ones that pay extra for a low number. first off the line, means the one with the most problems.

Not always the case....Ive seen many people with tons of issues with their ACDC Premiums & X-men LE's & neither of the ones I have (Xmen LE traded away) had any issues. These things can have issues at any point in production.

I don't don't have an issue with my BiB and you forget us LE ac/dc owner have more clear on our Pfs than you premium owners .

Most people that have their LE secure dont feel remorse for the people that got screwed because they have a game everyone wants and will ultimately drive the price up. Even if they don't plan on selling its nice to know you have a game worth x more than you paid for it.

Most people that can't afford or don't want one don't feel any remorse for people that got screwed because they aren't getting one either.

The people that got screwed or are on the chopping block feel remorse for others because they know how it feels.

My point is until it happens to you, it's hard to fully grasp it. I thought I was one of the people getting screwed on a pre order. After talking to my distributor yesterday my chances are a lot better to get one than they were last week. I think he had a few people cancel and offered people the chance to downgrade to premium at a really good price (something I think all distributors should do for their preorder customers that are getting cut). I turned down the premium as I still really want an LE. I think he's very close to coming out of this with enough now.

Speaking for myself I can't say that it's 100% sterns fault or any of it is sterns fault but it would be nice to hear them address the issue. I also think that even if none of it was their fault they could have made decisions to help out the people that got screwed. If I was a business owner that what I would do regardless if it was my fault. That's just smart business. Happy customers buy more games in the future.

Even if I do get my LE I will still feel bad for the preorders that got screwed and would love stern to make another 50-100 les to get all the preorders filled even if it means mine is not as limited as it would have been. It's not like im talking about doubling the production. Just adding 50-100 more. Still gonna be a sought after game.

People don't need to coddle people that got screwed they just need understand it could have easily happend to them. Pin fans need to stick together because if we are united we have more power over companies like stern and JJP than you would think.

If you are reading this and you did get screwed - I know it sux and nothing I say will make you feel better. Just know that time heals all wounds and hopefully you will get one down the road or go premium and enjoy the play of the game

I actually think the Metallica Premium may not sell well. A lot of people won't want to buy what they view as an inferior model, even if it has all the same play features. Some people who would have bought the LE will now just pass on the game.

if they pass on the premium because they didn't get the LE, then they didn't buy the LE to play it and have it. The bought it to hang on to it hoping to flip it for mass cash later. It's the tell tale sign. If your buying to hang onto for 3 or 4 years down the road. If the game is good, when they stop making it, all the models will go up in value. all good games do. But you have to be in for the long haul.

Honestly they should shit can the whole LE model "UNTIL" it's proven. Like what they did with LOTR, Monopoly, BSM, Elvis....etc.....

Prove first that it's worthy of an LE. Make a crap load of premiums.....THEN if it's good and worthy come out with an LE. The guys that want the LE that already bought the premium would sell and bring more used games to market generating more entry level affordable games to people and the LE's would sell again to not only the hardcores as a repeat buyer but new buyers as well.
My thoughts.

Not necessarily. There are many people who simply have to have the best of something. Doesn't mean - at all - that they plan to flip whatever that best of something is. They just want the best and if they can't get the best they don't want a lesser version. This isn't just the case in pinball.

Stern may be shooting themselves in the foot on sales simultaneously while they are high fiving themselves on how fast the LE's sold out. The sad thing is they just won't know it.

Won't happen sadly. They like the guarantee of moving a fixed number of product. I agree with you this would be better though.

Elvis Gold was supposed to be a couple months before the regular ( why I ordered it ) it and the regular came out about the same time.

LTG : )

I think the premium will sell good only if the game turns out to be as fun as it looks. Kinda like acdc. If I don't get an LE I will most likely wait until I get a chance to play one first before getting a premium. No need to rush on premiums right now unless your trying to beat the 5% cost increase coming in may. I actually think the premium price will drop a little after the game calmes down a little. Stern may increase by 5% but doesn't mean distributors will automatically. It will be easier to price shop for a premium after the first run is gone. Acdc prem was very expensive before Xmas when people really wanted them. I waited for the next run and saved $600.

Did they ever make Avengers Premium? That might be ultra-limited if so!! In 10-20 years it will be worth some dough! Buy now speculators! Seriously, there has to be less of those than the LEs if they were made.

*cough cough* AC/DC Premium *cough cough*

I agree that would be sweet. No need to make a super tricked out model if a pin does not sell enough to hold its own. It would be a way to create some serious excitement on already popular pins a year or two after they've been selling like hot cakes. Would only work for titles they could get the rights to for an extended period of time like with music pins. Not sure It would ever happen but would be a good way to go IMO.

It seems from your original post, you are the one with hurt feelings. Move on!, like others have said.

Really 24 hours later and that is your contribution to this thread. You are new here and instigating. Does our little bro to the north have a complex here? Thanks and welcome to pinside. Now get a life.

Btw make a donation to pinside my Canadian pinball bro.

This was in response to everyone pimping out pins with mods and powder coating. Folks wanted a turn key blingy edition and Stern responded. You were a big proponent of this in the beginning to the point we thought you worked at stern and ran their FB page. Posting acdc progress photos. What has changed?

This financial guarantee is not something Stern is concerned about, they'll sell enough to cover every run without LEs. It's nothing more than a recognition of their customer base who want to pay more for a special edition.

Yes

http://sternpinball.com/Games/avengers-premium.aspx

It's not the best. It's just a little different but plays the same as the premium. You think the art on the LE is built stronger and holds up better? Nope. Think the siderails powercoat is more durable than the premiums? Nope. It's not built even 1% better than the premium. If you want the game, and you want to play it, and you like the toys the premium has to offer over the pro, it's not going to make a whole lot of difference if you like the game, what art is on the cabinet and translite. Plus you save yourself an extra $1000 or whatever it is. I have AC/DC premium, and plays just like LTBR and BIB, do I give a shit if the cabinet artwork is different? Not at all. Plays the same, actually better because I don't have the early run problems the LE's had with windows and what not.

Now if I bought it with the intention to sell it soon, sure I wish it was BIB, but i'm glad it's not, because it would be worth so damn much, i'd rather not have that much cash sitting around in a game. I'd sell it and rebuy a premium anyway.

I've only been in the hobby for a short time (one year), but it seems to me that Stern does their best to change their product offering to meet the quickly changing market. It's tough to estimate how much demand there will be for a numbered LE.

Personnally, I like the idea that was mentioned on the Pinball Podcast about making the LE a limited time offer (e.g. available only for the 1st couple of months of production) as opposed to the current set number of limited production. Its possible Stern might change to this for their next machine with a popular license. With the market the size it is now, it seems like it is no longer necessary to do numbered LE just to enourage people to buy a collector quality model.

No matter what, I hope Stern always does some sort of Premium model (e.g. unlimited run of collector quality model).

Whoa! I agree with Neo!

You can do an advanced search on ipdb.org:

http://ipdb.org/search.pl?prd=%3E9999&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced

Looks like there were 3 SuperPins in 1993 that sold over 10,000:

April: TZ (15,235)
August: IJ (12,716)
November: STTNG (11,728)

If it is inferior(Premium) .Then so will the MOP LE . I only cared for the MOP LE Art , Which may,in the long run be inferior being it has red dye . and we all know red fades . If the MOP LE is Great to play The premium will be as well. I was upset i did not get the Artwork i wanted after paying full price April 11th ,, I will move on , However ,no way no how the premium is inferior to Mop LE . Just a different look Externally..
I also agree with Jaydawg0006 >>>>>>

_{Post edited by PinFever}

All you have is a Play field with less clear coat on it. Not sure how that makes it "play better".

No proof of that. Stern never stated in the features list that the LEs had extra clearcoat. Only LEs that was absolutely confirmed on was LOTR LE & Avatar LE.

I think neo is referring to not having to play through a cloudy window? probably not the clear cloat, at least that's what I got from it.

Is SB montreal selling at msrp now? if so they can shove it.

I actually think they should shitcan all the models meaning both Jersey Jack and Stern should have just one version of the game not these different models that they all think of to charge us extra money. It is some serious bs. We started paying this much for games, because of Jack charging 6500 for games. I am sure we all miss the days of one model and only being charged 4 grand

why stop at LE's? Stern should do Black Editions....10 blacked-out, uber-special machines loaded extra mods, more LED's, better translights, mirrored walls, speakers, amps, headphone jacks, a chip with Gary's DNA, extended service plans, etc. And offer flying me to the plant, so I can pick and play my machine, meet Steve and Lyman, take pictures, then Gary could give me a reach around. I could yell 'Roll Tide!'. Imagine the publicity!

I've come to the conclusion the market has become like the car collector market. People are buying things for their reputation and prominence.. and not their play. The post like the one you are replying to is the tell tale of sign one. Second sign.. the eagerness to pay for high priced Mods. People are looking to BLING out their games more now than ever. The old days of TomW TZ mods look like childs play to people paying $200-$400 dollars for a single mod.

It won't be long before shows will have long lines of games with their glass off.. and playfields up so we can all inspect and oo and ahh over how well the pin has been kept pristine.

Certainly the idea of a cherry game is not new... but what we are seeing now is the rush and volume for that. Stern's LEs play right into that (good for them) and the amount of money chasing mods now shows the eagerness to pimp out in large volumes.

It's like having cars to race... vs having cars to admire or showoff. That's what is happening for a lot of people in the pin hobby now too

Well unless the aging pinball community of the last 20 years all of a sudden came into a lot of money... there is a lot of new people and new money chasing stuff in the market. There isn't anything to say they adhere to the same likes/philosophies of the old. The tolerance for paying for games and mods has gone through the roof. That isn't happening by sellers alone... it's buyer dollars too.

I don't believe its a vocal minority - I think it's a new audience that is growing.

I saw that at TPF.

We are in for a heck of a ride.

LTG : )

My hope is it's a 'short one' as eventually these collectors find there is little outside appreciation for their efforts and the community is too small to sustain their need for new appreciation

unfortunately this is far to true for this forum. They try to outbling each other and have every new title to impress each other. If you added mods before. It was one or two in good taste. Everything wasn't LED'd out and strap every piece of crap you could to a game. Toppers were an afterthought and most through toppers are ugly in the first place. I've never seen so many care about much that doesn't matter. Pinball discussion used to be about bulletproofing your game. Troubleshooting and making the game play better and not break down as easy. Taking a rough game and bringing it back to life.

There is certainly room for both I think... I mean TreasureCove discussions and HEP.. and others all had their market while the majority of the hobby wouldn't fathom putting that much into a single title. But the 'keeping up with the jones' is a little out of control and the balance of what type of audience we have on this site may not be so typical either.

The problem becomes when camp A decides to badmouth camp B... instead of being willing to just pass it over as 'not your taste' and focusing on what is important to you.