(Topic ID: 53550)

To repaint or not to repaint. That is the question.

By ReallifePin

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Rick432
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Topic poll

“When do you repaint?”

  • Any EM I get that isn't perfect. I like them to look brand new 4 votes
    11%
  • If the paint is flaking 9 votes
    25%
  • The paint has to really bad, I like to keep them original 21 votes
    58%
  • Not under any circumstances. All original. 2 votes
    6%

(36 votes)

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SM_Before-After.jpg
#1 10 years ago

The cabinet on my Quick Draw is alright except for the front quick looks like it was pulled from the Titanic. What I'm wondering is what you all like to do with your machines. What does it take for you to do a repaint.

#2 10 years ago

Just paint the front. Match the colors of the cabinet so it blends in and doesn't look new. I cannot understand why people are happy to look at tatty old cabinets just to keep them original. It's fine to re paint an old classic car with tired paint so why not a pinball cabinet. If it's done as original, it makes the games look much more appealing.

#3 10 years ago

I personally agree with nick. Repainting might matter in resale value with a well sought after collector pin but not really in the case of a typical run-of-the-mill craiglslist find, as long as the repainting is of reasonable quality and duplicates the original.

After removing the Battle Star Galactica wall paper from the previous owner, I found the front of my Space Mission was really very battered and worn while the sides were not too bad. I repainted the front which made the whole machine look dramatically better.

SM_Before-After.jpgSM_Before-After.jpg

#4 10 years ago

In most antiques and collectibles fields, it seems that originality is favored (and valued) over non-reversible restoration, and in particular refinishing/repainting. Whether it's furniture or toys, this appears to be the case. Then there are things like cars, pedal cars, jukeboxes, soda and candy machines, etc. where complete restoration is (and has been) accepted. However, within the collectible car hobby there has been a growing trend towards 'survivor' vehicles, and a premium value has been placed on well-maintained, but still original vehicles (where repainting would actually devalue them). There are even car shows and auctions dedicated to them.

There is just something about that patina an item acquires over time that can't be replaced. And I think most folks have seen the infamous segments on Antiques Roadshow (and the like) about how items would have been worth so much more, had they just not been refinished/restored.

But it boils down to a matter of personal taste. A coin collector would cringe and recoil in horror at the thought of cleaning a coin, whereas a non-collector would wonder why anyone would want such a dirty, greasy old coin. The coin collectors make the market though, so the value goes to the uncleaned coin, despite how it might look. Same goes for toy collectors and restored vs. original (carving out 'repaired' as a separate tangent).

And there are certainly cases where a repaint adds value. If the damage has already been done (maybe having already been repainted once before), or more paint is gone than remaining, or wood that needs to be stabilized to save it, etc., then a restoration can help.

Regardless, it is an interesting trend to observe.

#5 10 years ago

I generally prefer original unless it's really scabby or if you get one that someone painted some non-original design. I like the look of a beautifully restored game but too often repaints are a dead give away. Too bright, lines too crisp, colors off and splatter and webbing rarely looks correct.

My Cow Poke I have struggled with forever. It's cabinet paint is it's weakest point. Original but lots of scratches and chipped paint. It's a game worthy of the full treatment but based on the couple I have repainted I'm not sure I'd be happier with it once redone. It's not super attractive currently but it's only original once. I may feel differently if I were confident I could do it and replicate the look of an untouched original.
Alex

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

I generally prefer original unless it's really scabby or if you get one that someone painted some non-original design. I like the look of a beautifully restored game but too often repaints are a dead give away. Too bright, lines too crisp, colors off and splatter and webbing rarely looks correct.
My Cow Poke I have struggled with forever. It's cabinet paint is it's weakest point. Original but lots of scratches and chipped paint. It's a game worthy of the full treatment but based on the couple I have repainted I'm not sure I'd be happier with it once redone. It's not super attractive currently but it's only original once. I may feel differently if I were confident I could do it and replicate the look of an untouched original.
Alex

If you want to replicate the original look, don't do a real good job. These machines were very poorly painted at the factories, no undercoats, paint thin enough to see webbing through and overspray from the quickly applied stencils. The fact that they have webbing is evidence enough. It was only applied to try to hide all the defects. I think the main problem is people try to do too good a job and the result is a game that looks too perfect.
The operators at the time didn't care too much about the cosmetics, the players didn't, carving graffiti in the wood. The manufacturers didn't show much concern for appearance (all those crappy three colour Gottlieb cabinets for example), they were just money earning machines. We have far greater concern for them now than they ever had in the day.
I can understand wanting to preserve a nice, clean example of a game for posterity, but average, paint damaged and aged examples would all be nicer things with a fresh coat. Most would happily fit a restored or reproduction back glass to replace one with ink loss, crazing or faded colours. Touch ups to worn play fields are OK, why not improve a tired old cabinet?

#7 10 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

There is just something about that patina an item acquires over time that can't be replaced.

But it boils down to a matter of personal taste.

And there are certainly cases where a repaint adds value. If the damage has already been done (maybe having already been repainted once before), or more paint is gone than remaining, or wood that needs to be stabilized to save it, etc., then a restoration can help.
Regardless, it is an interesting trend to observe.

I am in the camp that would like to not repaint it at all and leave it all original but it's kind of hypocritical since I have a new coin door and legs and will have a restored backglass in it. I just want to have a 38 year old game that you can see has had some history, not one that has a long history that has been covered in a sheet of paint.

#8 10 years ago
Quoted from ReallifePin:

I am in the camp that would like to not repaint it at all and leave it all original but it's kind of hypocritical since I have a new coin door and legs and will have a restored backglass in it. I just want to have a 38 year old game that you can see has had some history, not one that has a long history that has been covered in a sheet of paint.

Replacement parts aren't so hypocritical, since they are common parts among machines, and it's a reversible step. And the parts are often NOS (or made the same as original). Repro backglasses (that are silk screened) are also a reversible exchange (and look very nice!). New plastics and other parts too.

It's the touchups and repaints that get into a spectrum of subjectivity and debate (it seems), whether cabinet, playfield, or backglass.

#9 10 years ago

Unless the cabinets are totally trashed I leave them alone.

The playfield touch up and new backglasses are fine as that's where your eye is drawn, but the cabinets tell a story.

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from Garrett:

the cabinets tell a story.

Well said. That's how I feel too. Some days I want to paint it and get it all pretty but usually I like to see the battle scars.

#11 10 years ago

I grapple with this debate when I restore a game (define restore....) I try to take the middle ground and strive for nearly invisible touch ups, but don't mind minor dings/patina and even leave a little bare wood showing on the corners. I agree repaints generally just don't look right. Even when white cabinet base colors are done with Ivory. Hence, my stance on just doing tasteful touch ups is my compromise. Does it decrease value? or does it just look better since the rest of the game is spruced up as much as reasonably possible. I respect the purist that wants an all original game, but I like taking a neglected, sad looking game and making it blossom into the beauty that it once had and the designers intended.

#12 10 years ago

I think there is an end market for both types of games, Restored and Original. In my opinion, do what is going to make it more enjoyable for you. If you ever want to move that game on, there will be someone who will love it!

#13 10 years ago

When I buy a game I could give two shits about the value later. The value is in the eyes of me alone. I deck out my machines to the nines and make them look better than new. Chromed out and shiny new factory looking paint job. I know enough people that can mimic the factory splattering perfectly. I have owned Herb Silver's restored machines and have seen Bob Borden's restores as well. Lets say I buy a Kings and Queens game for 1600-1800 dollars in original condition. Lets say I spend 500-700 on a cab repaint. 500 in a playfield resto with a matte finish clearcoat, 300 for a new back glass or original restored through BG resto. Next I spend 250 on a coin door and everything metal. 75-125 on a new set of plastics and ???? on getting all the new metal chromed. Chances are I am never going to sell unless I lost my job and badly needed money to pay the rent/mortgage. This very things happened to me because of 9/11 events and I had to sell 3 games. I had no problem re cooperating 70-100% of what I spent back in 2002. I don't know about today, because it seems like there are so many people that can do the restores as compared to 10-15 years ago. It also seems like the EM bubble burst years ago. EM machines seem far cheaper than what they were selling for 10-15 years ago as well. This was the case for me in Southern California. I have no clue the difference of what the EMs sell for now in Southern California now Vs. late 90's.

I am starting to ramble but I guess I am just passionate about fully restored games, and I don't mind spending big money on a game I know should never leave my collection.

#14 10 years ago

Interesting debate.

True that in the antiquities market 'patina' is valued and removing it can cost $$$$$.

With old EM's though, maybe not so much. I would prefer nice original artwork any day of the week though. But if original cabinet is really tatty, would prefer a very high quality re-paint.

What I hate most of all are bad re-paints - the worst of all worlds!

A superb original condition cabinet should in my opinion be worth more than a re-paint.

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

What I hate most of all are bad re-paints - the worst of all worlds!
A superb original condition cabinet should in my opinion be worth more than a re-paint.

What he said

#16 10 years ago
Quoted from nick-the-greek:

If you want to replicate the original look, don't do a real good job. These machines were very poorly painted at the factories, no undercoats, paint thin enough to see webbing through and overspray from the quickly applied stencils. The fact that they have webbing is evidence enough. It was only applied to try to hide all the defects. I think the main problem is people try to do too good a job and the result is a game that looks too perfect.
The operators at the time didn't care too much about the cosmetics, the players didn't, carving graffiti in the wood. The manufacturers didn't show much concern for appearance (all those crappy three colour Gottlieb cabinets for example), they were just money earning machines. We have far greater concern for them now than they ever had in the day.
I can understand wanting to preserve a nice, clean example of a game for posterity, but average, paint damaged and aged examples would all be nicer things with a fresh coat. Most would happily fit a restored or reproduction back glass to replace one with ink loss, crazing or faded colours. Touch ups to worn play fields are OK, why not improve a tired old cabinet?

Interesting that you say don't do a good job. And that the factories didn't care. The Space Mission that I'm currently rebuilding has the most awful original paint job I've ever seen. There is overspray around every stencil. If I didn't know better I'd never know it was factory. The cabinet is in really rough shape from 38 years of abuse ( I think it was used outside at an amusement park), but the stencils are all intact and pretty clear.

I'm going to try and leave it pretty much alone and just clean it as best as I can. She is a tough old bird and wears her scars proudly. But she will work 100% and the playfield and glass will be as good as I can make them.

#17 10 years ago

This is an interesting topic but a very personal one when it comes to taste. I do agree that painting it won't deter the value etc and it actually may make it look.... cleaner. I was going to say better but again that is in the eye of the beholder.

I for one love to look at the machines with there scars intact. I don't like to look at dirt, paw prints, grease, grime etc but I don't mind scratches, dings, nicks, scrapes etc. When it comes to a cabinet I don't want to touch anything. I like to see there age and I explain that age to anyone that may visit them. I do like to have the playfield area including the glass as mint as possible, this to me increases the wow factor of "what an old game, it still plays so awesome!" I do find myself from time to time looking around the cabinet and thinking, what made that scratch I wonder, what crazy fool carved 666 in the thing, what made that burn mark. I usually take a picture under a leg to show people what the real color actually was and how faded it is now. The only parts that I would consider touching up would be front facing backbox wood as if it's all scratched up it takes away visually from the backglass.

Depending on what the words restore or refurbish mean I may never do either on any machines I work on.

#18 10 years ago

Touch ups are acceptable if they are done well. Most collectors that I know prefer original. Unless you are an artist, it would e difficult to match the patina of the rest of the machine. I have passed on many nice machines with poorly done touch ups.

#19 10 years ago

Lot of work involved to do right, have a go with a good clean and a light bit of magic eraser first.

#20 10 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

I repainted the front which made the whole machine look dramatically better.

You do good work, Steve.
I would buy any of your machines knowing the quality of the workmanship

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from Garrett:

Unless the cabinets are totally trashed I leave them alone.
The playfield touch up and new backglasses are fine as that's where your eye is drawn, but the cabinets tell a story.

Well said. My thoughts too. I actually enjoy pointing out to people the high scores carved into the head of my "Jumping Jack".

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from jasonsmith:

This is an interesting topic but a very personal one when it comes to taste. I do agree that painting it won't deter the value etc and it actually may make it look.... cleaner. I was going to say better but again that is in the eye of the beholder.
I for one love to look at the machines with there scars intact. I don't like to look at dirt, paw prints, grease, grime etc but I don't mind scratches, dings, nicks, scrapes etc. When it comes to a cabinet I don't want to touch anything. I like to see there age and I explain that age to anyone that may visit them. I do like to have the playfield area including the glass as mint as possible, this to me increases the wow factor of "what an old game, it still plays so awesome!" I do find myself from time to time looking around the cabinet and thinking, what made that scratch I wonder, what crazy fool carved 666 in the thing, what made that burn mark. I usually take a picture under a leg to show people what the real color actually was and how faded it is now. The only parts that I would consider touching up would be front facing backbox wood as if it's all scratched up it takes away visually from the backglass.
Depending on what the words restore or refurbish mean I may never do either on any machines I work on.

I think you are my brother from another mother. And country

We agree in just about every way. Clean the cabinet and leave it alone. Make the playfield and backglass as nice as you can and the play the heck out of it.

The scars, scratches and dinks (not to mention names and scores carved in the wood) are the battle wounds of the units 40+ years of life in a bar, arade, amusement park, and then a warehouse somewhere.

#23 10 years ago

here here guys, I too like to leave the cabinets showing their stories for the most part, but try to get the back glass and playfields as nice as possible

but to each their own

I can also really really appreciate those that take the time and have the mad skills to bring a ratty box back to 'as new' condition - they look really beautiful like that as well!!

regards, Ron

#24 10 years ago

I'd do the whole cabinet.

#25 10 years ago

Depends on the starting condition. If the condition is pretty bad, well, that pin is unlikely to be a museum piece regardless. It will be a player/softcore collector pin. So make it look nice. No harm. I have a Tommy with a previously fugly cabinet. Every time I lift the playfield, I find a new hack that I have to undo, furthermore.

So it's not pristine in any event and will never get back to just-out-of-factory condition. So I had no reservations about airbrushing the cabinet yellow after wood filling the numerous cabinet wounds (especially where the topper had been). And it looks GREAT! Glad I did it. Anyone who would reject it because it was redone wouldn't have touched it in the first place ANYWAY. Anyone else would appreciate the work I happily put into it.

If the pin in question is from a limited run, or not so bad on the cabinet with a few blemishes, leave it alone.

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