(Topic ID: 238603)

To Fix or Not to Fix?

By PinballGurus

5 years ago


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Topic poll

“Fix?”

  • Yes 41 votes
    76%
  • No 13 votes
    24%

(54 votes)

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There are 254 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 6.
#151 4 years ago

Hey! My ears are burning!

I've mellowed a bit on the never-high-tap thing. In general, if a machine is properly rebuilt, it "shouldn't" need to be high-tapped... but it might!

In a home-use environment, high-tapping won't make a lick of difference in terms of safety or reliability. Consider it a minor hot rodding tweak. Home games don't get anywhere near the amount of use commercial games do, so if you've done the full rebuild and it still isn't peppy enough... go for it.

Now, personally, I never start with high-tap because I want to evaluate what the machine is supposed to feel like on standard voltage. But here's where it gets subjective... some manufacturers/games feel a bit too slow on the default winding whereas others (particularly if blessed with DC rectifiers and such) almost feel too fast!

If the flippers are a little weak but everything else is great, I'll swap hotter flipper coils instead of doing a high-tap.

If all of the pops and slings are weak, I might high-tap (assuming there is no voltage leak/connection issue somewhere).

Everything is relative. Basically, if you've done everything else and it still needs a little more pep, go for it.

#152 4 years ago

I adjusted the ball release relay but it is still randomly popping out multiple balls...??? Any other ideas???

#154 4 years ago

Great information. I agree 100%, especially with swapping out the flipper coils.

I’ve actually decided not to high tap this game since it’s actually working very well, but I’m still curious about it so I may try it for a few games to see the difference it makes. I’ll do a video of the before and after.

Quoted from NicoVolta:

Hey! My ears are burning!
I've mellowed a bit on the never-high-tap thing. In general, if a machine is properly rebuilt, it "shouldn't" need to be high-tapped... but it might!
In a home-use environment, high-tapping won't make a lick of difference in terms of safety or reliability. Consider it a minor hot rodding tweak. Home games don't get anywhere near the amount of use commercial games do, so if you've done the full rebuild and it still isn't peppy enough... go for it.
Now, personally, I never start with high-tap because I want to evaluate what the machine is supposed to feel like on standard voltage. But here's where it gets subjective... some manufacturers/games feel a bit too slow on the default winding whereas others (particularly if blessed with DC rectifiers and such) almost feel too fast!
If the flippers are a little weak but everything else is great, I'll swap hotter flipper coils instead of doing a high-tap.
If all of the pops and slings are weak, I might high-tap (assuming there is no voltage leak/connection issue somewhere).
Everything is relative. Basically, if you've done everything else and it still needs a little more pep, go for it.

#155 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballGurus:

Great information. I agree 100%, especially with swapping out the flipper coils.
I’ve actually decided not to high tap this game since it’s actually working very well, but I’m still curious about it so I may try it for a few games to see the difference it makes. I’ll do a video of the before and after.

I always thought it would be kind of cool to put in a switch to go between regular & high tap....

#156 4 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

I always thought it would be kind of cool to put in a switch to go between regular & high tap....

In the old days you could just change a fuse position between the two. I wonder why they made it harder to change?

#157 4 years ago

Great idea. I’ll try it.

Quoted from dasvis:

I always thought it would be kind of cool to put in a switch to go between regular & high tap....

#158 4 years ago

Last thing I’m having trouble with is getting the 2nd Ball relay to engage. Does anyone know what triggers it? I thought the ball index would trigger it, but it is now working but the 2nd Ball isn’t.

#159 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballGurus:

Last thing I’m having trouble with is getting the 2nd Ball relay to engage. Does anyone know what triggers it? I thought the ball index would trigger it, but it is now working but the 2nd Ball isn’t.

The 2nd Ball relay should activate when all these activate:
1) The #1 Ball Trough switch
2) The #2 Ball Trough switch - OR - the Bonus Hole relay
3) The Outhole relay

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png
#160 4 years ago

I’m basically done with fixing the machine. My last issue is I am having trouble getting the Game Over relay to work all of the sudden. It had been working, but now sometimes it engages and others it won’t. Ugh!

#161 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballGurus:

Anyone know what causes two or more balls to pop out?

Puberty

#162 4 years ago

I still have trouble with it kicking out two balls as well, but I tightened the spring (way tight) on the Ball Release relay and it works now, but it doesn’t seem like I should have to rig the spring to get one Ball instead of multiple balls. Any ideas on this? Wondering if it could be related to the Game Over relay issue. I get major sparking and clicking on the Game Over relay at times.

#165 4 years ago

I replaced all the leafs on the Game Over relay and it still does the same thing basically. I also removed the tight spring on the Ball Eject solenoid to ensure that was a cause and it’s kicking out more than one ball again; seems the super tight spring works, but I am curious as to why? Perhaps the leafs on the Ball Eject relay are shot? Or maybe so other small issue?

#166 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballGurus:

I replaced all the leafs on the Game Over relay and it still does the same thing basically. I also removed the tight spring on the Ball Eject solenoid to ensure that was a cause of the Game Over relay issue and it’s kicking out more than one ball again; seems the super tight spring works, but I am curious as to why? Perhaps the leafs are shot?

#167 4 years ago

Turns out my Game Over switch relay was due to score motor 4E not making contact. Fixed. Now why do I get multiple balls unless I put the spring on tight?

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#168 4 years ago

Done!!! Dang this is getting too easy. Turned our to be the lock relay. Still not sure why it launches multiple balls without the taught spring??? But it works nonetheless. Thanks for all your help on this old machine. I’ll be around should anyone have issue on their Nip It let me know, I’m probably basically an expert at this point after this. Just kidding... I still have a lot to learn. In total it took me around 40+ hours. You can do the math.

#169 4 years ago

I’m having trouble getting it to play multiple players all of the sudden... any ideas?

#170 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballGurus:

I’m having trouble getting it to play multiple players all of the sudden... any ideas?

Enough credits on machine ? (don't ask me how I know to ask this first )

Could be sticky "coin count" stepper as well ( how many players are "coined-up" )

#171 4 years ago

I’m almost certain my issue is in the reset relay on the make/break switch... I have a white/brown wire on the middle and a white/blue on the inner and a red/blue on the outer. I have adjusted the crap out of it and tests everything in the circuit and still cannot get multiple players to work. Sometimes if I push on the make/break switch it adds extra players, but it is very random. I’m also wondering still if it could be my coin door wiring. Help would really be appreciated... this is the last this I need to finish.

The total play meter adds one, but when credit button is pressed, it won’t add another player. It looks like the total play meter should trigger the coin unit step up, but it doesn’t.

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding how the switch works?
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#172 4 years ago

Everything works ok for a one player game. I just cannot add extra players????

#173 4 years ago

When I touch the white/brown wire to either side of the make/break switch it it does nothing, but I can ground either switch and it with reset the ball count and/or add a player??? A broken wire? I did notice sons kind of 1/2 WATT resistor on the schematic near the coin door; I don’t see it anywhere in my game??? Can anyone verify!!????

#174 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballGurus:

Everything works ok for a one player game. I just cannot add extra players????

Have you looked at the player advance unit?

#175 4 years ago

This on the left here. DMM 1/2 WATT???

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#176 4 years ago

Looks like it goes on the coin door????

Help???

#179 4 years ago

It’s only draining the ball about 60% of the time, which tells me it’s the make/break on the reset relay, but still not sure why it’s not adding players???

#180 4 years ago

The unit in the back box, yes it has been cleaned and gone over. It was working fine???

Quoted from kermit24:

Have you looked at the player advance unit?

#181 4 years ago

I think that resistor is actually on the Jone Plug... I’ll test it. I did test the make/break switch on the reset relay that goes to the coin unit advance for continuity and it wasn’t a solid beep, so I’m thinking there’s some kind of short or interference???

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#182 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballGurus:

This on the left here. DMM 1/2 WATT???
[quoted image]

What's the format of other resistors on the schematic?

#183 4 years ago

Not sure what you’re asking?

Quoted from mbwalker:

What's the format of other resistors on the schematic?

#184 4 years ago

That resistor is reading 9.14 on both sides when I disconnect a lead and the game unplugged.

#185 4 years ago

Looks like it is the resistor in the schematic on the Jones Plug. Hmmm???

Does this make sense???

#186 4 years ago

It’s actually in the next circuit over, but I’m assuming it could cause interference if it’s bad???

#187 4 years ago

Resistor in schematic looks like it reads:
8200 Ohm 1/2 Watt???

It’s gray - red - red - silver in my game.

#188 4 years ago
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#189 4 years ago

Yep. 8200 ohm.

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#190 4 years ago

So at 9.14, I’m just outside the tolerance level according to the chart???

#191 4 years ago

Probably not enough to affect the game??? Curious???

#193 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballGurus:

Not sure what you’re asking?

Usually the schematic follows the same format. So the upper text might be a value, the next lower text could be a RefDes (i.e. R123) or location, while the 3rd down looks like it indicates the wattage. So check another resistor on the schematic to figure which text is the value and try to go from there.

Might be a moot point if you figured out the value. Looks like the upper text is '8200' ohms.

#194 4 years ago

Still no luck. I’m gonna try a new resistor tomorrow, but I really don’t think that’s the issue... I had it working at one time and now nothing. Ugh!!!

#195 4 years ago

Hi PinballGurus
I do not want to read all previous posts - I pick Your post-172: Starting for a new game functions - ball is kicked out - You want to start for second player so You press the Credit-Button / Start Button. And now - does the Credit-Relay pulls-in ?
If (if, if) "No": Toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons). Look at the Coin-Unit - do step up on the Coin-Unit - when You come to Maximum-Position a rod on the wheel opens a switch (when we have started for four players - we then shall NOT try to start for a fifth player - thats what this switch is for) - wires soldered-on at the solderlugs ? Switch closed in Zero-Position ? Greetings Rolf

#196 4 years ago

I believe I finally figured it out. Each time I pressed the credit button, from the first player onward, the game was triggering the reset relay; according to what I just read (3C) the Game is only supposed to trigger the reset relay for the first player, which resets the scores, players, and balls. However, the reset relay is only supposed to engage on player one, but not the subsequent players, which mine was so it was basically resetting the player count after I just added a new player. I haven’t physically checked yet, but it makes sense... especially after Rolf’s response.

One question Rolf, is the unit you’re referring to and end of stoke switch on the player unit in the back box? If so, I assuming I want it only touching for the first player and not touching for the remaining players to be added????

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#197 4 years ago

This switch??? I believe I had it touching for the first three players and turning off on the fourth. Ugh. Learning slowly...

Praying this is the solution.

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#198 4 years ago

Hi PinballGurus
a fault can be caused in a place (AA) or in another place (BB) or ...
See the JPG - at end of a game You want a new game to start so You press the Credit-Button - the pin starts and resets Score-Drums and much more - and makes the Game-Over-Relay to switch from "tripped means is in Game-Over" to "latched" - starting a new game latches the Game-Over-Relay. In Latch-Position the "encircled orange" switch on the Game-Over-Relay MUST be open - so when pressing the Credit-Button to start for 2nd Player: The pin does NOT actuate the Reset-Relay. How about in Your pin ? Greetings Rolf

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#199 4 years ago

I really think the issue is my latch itself...???

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#200 4 years ago

This wire would tend to make sense.

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