(Topic ID: 7396)

To "Cliffy" or not?


By davewth

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 50 posts
  • 23 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Nutty_50
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 7 years ago

    My tz has no scoop wear and am wondering if adding cliffies will detract from it's value when i sell, should that happen. I guess what i'm saying is will it raise red flags needlessly? Any opinions?

    #2 7 years ago

    I've often wondered the exact same thing. I guess the question is how likely is the game to get wear there in a home use setting.

    #3 7 years ago

    You can always remove it again when it comes to sale.

    #4 7 years ago

    Take before and after pics. Personally, if it has cliffy's already, that's one less thing I have to buy! My TZ has no wear, but has a full cliffy set. Now there will be no wear at all. Most important is that power field protector. Looks sharp too.

    #5 7 years ago

    If you have no wear, then why not install the "kerry" style protector that goes underneath the playfield...not sure if he makes one, but I'd bet he does...

    #6 7 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    Take before and after pics. Personally, if it has cliffy's already, that's one less thing I have to buy!

    +1

    #7 7 years ago
    Quoted from tomdotcom:

    If you have no wear, then why not install the "kerry" style protector that goes underneath the playfield..

    +1 that is the way to go ! Cliffys are great for a worn pf but not for a non worn pf !

    Jim

    #8 7 years ago

    Honestly if I see no wear I usually put down a little strip of a stealth protector in high wear areas like scoops from pinball pal. I bet if you contacted them they would even do custom sized strips if needed. I usually just cut them in size that I need. Hard to notice and very easy to remove with no glue (no mess) if you want to take em off. For HUO machine I think that would provide enough protection to prevent wear.

    #9 7 years ago
    Quoted from McCune:

    Cliffys are great for a worn pf but not for a non worn pf !

    I disagree; a Cliffy will keep the playfield from getting damage. He only makes the protectors for areas that are highly likely to get damaged. If you have a playfield that is not damaged in an area that Cliffy makes a protector for, you just don't have that many games on the playfield. It will get worn over time, why not prevent the damage instead of repairing it later?

    Some examples are your ramps like the wall on Rollergames or the center ramp on Police Force. These ramps are usually around $125 if they are available at all. If you do not put a Cliffy on the wall shot on RG, it WILL get broken and the ramps are nearly extinct. Same thing applies to the center PF ramp. With no protector, it WILL get broken and they cost over $100.

    The switch slot protectors are the same as the ramps. If you have a ball dropping onto the playfield in the same place over and over it WILL cause damage after a while. Why not prevent the damage? It does not have to be a Cliffy. Mylar is installed on there for that reason, the prevent wear in certain areas. Mylar is not going to protect a ramp from getting cracked though.

    IMO if there is a protector, you are on the path to have a damaged field, just need to play more games. If you do not install a protector, why wax the playfield? That protects. Why clean the playfield and replace the balls? They are going to do the same damage. It is preventative maintenance, DO IT.

    #12 7 years ago
    Quoted from tomdotcom:

    No need for a cliffy ever if there is no wear there to begin with...

    To prevent wear. It will wear.

    To be clear, I am talking about any protector, not just Cliffy's. Kerry ones will work fine. For the record, not all Kerry are for undamaged parts. Here is a link to the Cyclone ramp protector that is designed to prevent damage or fill in a gap if there is damage already there.

    http://www.mantisamusements.com/cyclone.protkit.htm

    The end of the day, you can do what ever you want and use any protector you want, but if you are not using protectors, you will have damage in the high risk areas that they make protectors for. If you get a pin from me and there is a protector available that I know about, it will be installed. My ramps will not be broken with pieces missing.

    #13 7 years ago

    If I get a pin from you, you are doing the drive ;P

    This is the type of protector I was talking about. No need for a cliffy as it will prevent wear, and you can't see it...

    kerry.jpg

    #14 7 years ago

    Thanks Tom ! Some people just don't get it ..

    #15 7 years ago

    Honestly...cliffys are badass. I have a BSD with no wear and STILL installed them in the outlanes. I am waiting for them to finish testing on the OUTHOLE cliffy and will add that and the RAT SCOOP cliffy at the same time...and post pics. Neither of these have any real visible wear either...apparently BSD PF's hold up well

    I don't know how these detract from the look of any table?? If anything they add to it...I mean the finish is polished shiny and very classy looking for a machine such as pinball...looks great to me!!

    Preventative maintenance = +2

    Professional stylelized look = +3

    A guy that passionate about protecting the tables of yore so that we can enjoy each nuance of the PF for years to come = priceless.

    #16 7 years ago

    Cliffy's are badasssss...that's not the point I was trying to make...

    I have used some of his stuff and it's great...

    #17 7 years ago
    Quoted from McCune:

    Thanks Tom ! Some people just don't get it ..

    I call them "protectors" because thats what they are. I do not call them "cover ups"
    To each their own, of course.

    To those who choose my lil' creations I thank you very kindly.

    #18 7 years ago

    Cliffy, Kerry, or the new Hank's Hole-Gard. Just use something.

    #19 7 years ago

    I have two on my DE SW and will never be without them again. Cliffys are great!

    #20 7 years ago
    Quoted from jonnyo:

    Cliffy, Kerry, or the new Hank's Hole-Gard. Just use something.

    I love Hanks tips and mods. Where do you think I get my inspiration!?

    #21 7 years ago
    Quoted from tomdotcom:

    If you have no wear, then why not install the "kerry" style protector that goes underneath the playfield...not sure if he makes one, but I'd bet he does...

    Cliffy makes great stuff, but for scoop holes that have no wear, which is the case with most TZ's, I would recommend the Kerry protector as well.

    I have more Cliffy products than Kerry, but for new PFs/cc'd or no wear scoops, I would go with the Kerry as there is more original PF.

    I have often wondered if after time the Cliffy's will leave a slight imprint in the PF as ramp flaps do.

    Again, don't get me wrong, Cliffy products as a whole are more valuable to the pinball world, but Kerry's do have their place.

    #22 7 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    My tz has no scoop wear and am wondering if adding cliffies will detract from it's value when i sell, should that happen. I guess what i'm saying is will it raise red flags needlessly? Any opinions?

    I just realized my previous post did not really pertain to your questions sorry about that. Well I don't think they will detract from it's value as they are removable. Unless they left marks after they are removed. One reason it may raise red flags is because some people wrongfully use them to cover up an already damaged area which is not the right way to go about it. If there is a problem it should be fixed then put on the protector because as Cliffy said they are protectors not cover ups. As some mentioned above take before and after pics and that should let any buyer see straight up that you are not covering up damage.

    Quoted from jonnyo:

    Cliffy, Kerry, or the new Hank's Hole-Gard. Just use something.

    Hahaa, WOW...

    #23 7 years ago
    Quoted from Cliffy:

    To those who choose my lil' creations I thank you very kindly.

    Cliffy, your products are great ! I am just using them accordingly to my taste.. No disrespect or dissing your product!

    Some people probably wear helmets when playing pinball

    Jim

    #24 7 years ago

    No disrespect taken, Jim. We both do our part to contribute to our beloved hobby-cum-passion. I simply wanted to point out that they DO protect as advertised and not merely cover up damage. That's a bonus, however

    #25 7 years ago
    Quoted from tomdotcom:

    This is the type of protector I was talking about

    I understood what you were saying. I was editing my first comment when you replied. That is why I wanted to ensure everyone knew I was talking about any protectors, not just Cliffys.

    The comment about repair first is spot on. If you put a protector over a damaged area without repair first, the protector will not last long.

    #26 7 years ago
    Quoted from jonnyo:

    Just use something.

    Yes!!

    If you do not it is just as bad as not cleaning the pin or changing balls. They are for the same reason.

    PREVENTION

    #27 7 years ago
    Quoted from absocountry2:

    The comment about repair first is spot on. If you put a protector over a damaged area without repair first, the protector will not last long.

    Thin metal which is needed for application will dent to hell if you try to cover up large areas. They are perfect for minor wear areas, or to repaired areas where the cover up is not perfect. This is with regards to the scoop protectors, and Cliffy makes a wide range of pinball protectors that have no rivals.

    #28 7 years ago
    Quoted from Atomicboy:

    I have often wondered if after time the Cliffy's will leave a slight imprint in the PF as ramp flaps do.

    I've been asked this over the past 10 or so years and I honestly can't say one way or the other. The difference between my scoop protectors and ramp flaps is that ramp flaps are tensioned against the playfield whereas my protectors simply lie there flat. There is no tension or pressure until a ball rolls over it and even then it's negligible.

    The other thing ramp flaps do is rub back and forth as the ball's impact pushes the ramp back. Combine this with the pressure mentioned before and it causes the dreadful wear lines we all know and hate. My protectors do not slide back and forth so no chance of wear from that.

    At the end of the day, though, I can't guarantee they won't leave some impression. I recommend a narrow strip of 2mil mylar or static cling vinyl (stealth) under the edge before installing my protectors for those with such concerns.

    #29 7 years ago

    I still need to order the new DW ramp protector, and my creature snack bar could use one too.

    #30 7 years ago

    IMO, putting cliffy's down on a perfect playfield is as good as it gets. prevent wear right from the beginning! and they look great too.

    #31 7 years ago

    All I know is that I need one of your Judge Dredd pursuit ramp repair/protectors! Mine was repaired with transparent tape when i got it.

    I hope this wasn't seen as bashing your cliffies, Cliffy. I was just trying to get an opinion as to if people would assume damage underneath if they see cliffies.

    #32 7 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    I hope this wasn't seen as bashing your cliffies, Cliffy. I was just trying to get an opinion as to if people would assume damage underneath if they see cliffies.

    No way! I didn't see it that way at all bud. I just looked at another chaps LAH he is planning to sell in the buying and selling section and he has no protectors on the scoops. Frankly it ain't pretty so in that case I would definitely think my protectors would add value. However I absolutely respect others opinions either way.

    #33 7 years ago
    Quoted from donjagra:

    I still need to order the new DW ramp protector, and my creature snack bar could use one too.

    all it takes is an email, buddy

    #34 7 years ago
    Quoted from Cliffy:

    all it takes is an email, buddy

    i just did that in regards to JD. I want the repair kit for the ramp and the ball ejector kit. Do you make anything else for that game?

    #35 7 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    Do you make anything else for that game? (JD)

    Not yet but I've ben asked to look at doing ramp entrance protectors and the hardest of all jackpot/subway scoop protector. Eventually

    #36 7 years ago

    I'm so glad you make that ramp repair kit, cliffy. That broken ramp was bugging the hell out of me. Now it'll be better than new IMO.

    #37 7 years ago

    The Kerry protectors work well enough, but after meeting Cliffy in person I will wholeheartedly support everything he makes!
    Call me a "Fan-Boy" for life...
    The TRON protector is still working really well Cliffy!
    I have had only three hang-ups since installing it after PPE. Very negligible sacrifice for total protection on the scoop... (I just nudge it slightly and it falls right in.)
    Thanks again!

    #38 7 years ago

    So, that was you, nimble?

    FanMan1.jpg

    #39 7 years ago

    FWIW, I don't think Kerry makes a protector for the slot kickout. It's either Cliffy or nothing.

    #40 7 years ago

    So, that was you, nimble?

    funny-kid-tells-joke-to-dog.jpg

    #41 7 years ago

    Like Drac says on EATPM, "Thank you, boys!" Hey Nim I'm super happy to hear the Tron protector is working for you! Awesome news, man

    2 months later
    #42 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    FWIW, I don't think Kerry makes a protector for the slot kickout. It's either Cliffy or nothing.

    I emailed kerry/mantis and he confirmed that they do not. I guess it is cliffy or nothing for that machine!

    Sorry about digging up an old post but a few people mentioned the benefits of using something different that doesn't exist in the first place! I'm not upset, just trying to get the truth out there!

    #43 7 years ago

    The thing that worries me about using Kerry's protectors vs. Cliffy's, is it seems to me Kerry's only protect the vertical portion of a kickout hole--while Cliffy's protect both the vertical and horizontal portions.

    Take a game like MB for example. They're all worn at the Mosh Pit--at the right angle of the kickout hole and beyond...exactly where a Cliffy would protect a game from wear.

    Am I missing something?

    #44 7 years ago
    Quoted from NM:

    Am I missing something?

    And that Cliffy is a Pinsider!

    #45 7 years ago

    I got a chance to check out a Guns and Roses and see the Cliffy Protector for the hole, before installation. The way the playfield was perfect except for the one chewed up section to the left of the hole, I thought, I wouldn't dream of owning one without the protector in place.
    I held it in my hand and marveled at the precision of the steel.
    Wondered if it was stamped out using a press brake.

    #46 7 years ago
    Quoted from NM:

    Am I missing something?

    No. I don't think you're missing anything at all. As far as protection goes, a Cliffy seems like a better option. I'm assuming the reason some people choose to go with a Mantis protector instead of a Cliffy is because a) It is less visible, and b) There is less potential for it to affect the way the game plays.

    #47 7 years ago

    Hey Cliffy, I bought your gumball hole edge protector for tz but I diden't have any wear where the protector went I had more wear on the opposite side. Do you make a protector for that side? I know you cant even see it unless you remove the mini play-field but I always over do it with your protectors.

    #48 7 years ago

    i use them on all my more expensive games. cheaper than replacing a board.

    #49 7 years ago

    Adding these protectors to a game that has no wear in a certain spot that the protector is designed to protect is just preventative maintenance. Which keeps the value of your game longer. Why let it get worn un protected by not having one.

    #50 7 years ago

    I also am a believer in using prior to damage. My CFTBL had so little damage on the snack bar I was wondering if I should bother but glad I did and it really does look nice. Not to mention Cliff has helped me (And I mean huge with tons of time and effort on his part!) for my HS2 shooter lane eject as it has some diamond plate coming off.

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