People want what they can’t have.

Impatience and high income don’t mix well where a hobby is concerned.

‘I want it now!’ is enabled 100% with enough money thrown at it.

Personally that’s fine. It’s the others who follow that first sale thinking it’s normal. Herd mentality.

If this is Jeopardy.

What is “A Fool And His Money Are Soon Parted”

I mean, if you're gonna pay 20k for Bond SLE based off less info than pulp fiction, might as well pay 15 for a PF slot. I mean, I wouldn't do either of those things, but clearly there are enough people who have more money/less sense to create a market for such things. Whatever.

Only real solution is to either shrug and let this stuff go, or for everyone to make deposits/spots non-transferable. The later should probably happen anyway, regardless of how you feel about deposits, since there's currently a solid incentive for semi-shady distros to pass a few spots on to a "friend" just so they can mark them up a bit. Don't know about 2k, but I bet you a nickel if I offered my BMF spot for 1k it'd be gone in minutes. Couldn't really blame them either, they're in the biz of making money selling pins, why should they leave money on the table for flippers just because the manufacturer did? As a potential LE buyer, it sucks that Stern jacked them to 13k, but I'd rather see them get it than the guy a while back who was sitting on 5 NIB LE Zeppelin's (fortunately not the easiest flip).

Who is pre-ordering slot machines? The one-arm bandits are the ones with real value.

Was away a few years and came back to pure insanity! I see games selling used for more than I can order and wait a few months to get new. This is just stupid.
So yeah a part of this is stupid money that must have what they want yesterday. And part of this is the horrible model of limited editions.
I wish manufacturers would stop the LE Business. If 1000 sell then run another 500. Don't leave money in flippers pockets. Sell a standard and Top Tier and run as many as you have buyers for. Would make them more money and end this madness.

What people do with their money does not concern me. Lots of people tell me I’m stupid for owning $15k pinball machines at all, so I won’t judge someone else for buying a spot. Do what makes you happy. Don’t let what others do make you unhappy.

Same here. It’s quite shocking to see how things have turned out with game prices, unecessary mods (like toppers) that cost a bloody fortune, and how quickly the addicts will commit to throwing THOUSANDS of dollars into a proposed new machine without knowing much of anything about it.

I agree, although I might go a step farther: Make one damn version of a game and price them reasonably.

(I absolutely HATE the current model of machine production with varying models; it’s just nonsense.)

I can see possibly paying a premium for a game if you can get a game early and avoid the long wait but PF LE's will likely have even a longer wait than the SE's. Interest will wane over time as other new machines are introduced and released. By the time PF ships it may be competing against the next KME Stern game and the next JJP game among others. Interest in the title will likely never be higher than it is right now which is why some sellers are trying to take advantage.

Understood!

I used to think strictly like this too, but here's the caveat: What will the actual machine be selling for?

An inverse example: I remember offering $300 for someone's CE Halloween spot. They laughed at me, and said they'd rather throw away their $2k deposit than sell it to me. Fast forward to ownership time: Selling that $9500+tax pin for <$7500 today would have been a worse deal for him. It seemed clear he was not interested in the pin, just trying to make money on the flip.

The good news is he lost lots of money trying

And to answer your direct question, there's no way I'm spending over MSRP on just about anything. That's a clear sign of FOMO and pricing madness.

The price of a Stern pro has gone up 80% in 10 years, from 4K to 7K. The price of LE's has gone up 100%. And while there is definitely complaining about it, people still keep throwing money at it. Maybe Pinside shouldn't allow any new pins to be advertised for sale because its offensive to so many that the prices for new pins have escalated way beyond the rate of inflation. It's almost as if the manufacturers are scalping their own pins.

The point is that if anyone really believes the the new PFLE is really worth 15K when all is said and done, that's their business. If not, then Pinside would have to start looking at a lot more practices around here that don't seem "right" either.

If someone is stupid enough to pay $2,500.00 for a pre-order spot, I say go for it.

I, on the other hand, only pay the cost; if I can't get it for the price, I don't want it.

How many of the people that always bitch about the preorders were people that were actually going to get a spot and got locked out? Probably almost zero. People here love to hate when they see someone else make money. There probably aren’t many people paying big premiums on the spots anyway.

Welcome back, hadn’t seen you around. Not only is demand much higher but our shitty dollar isn’t worth the same. That’s a very important part of this equation.

Thanks!!! For sure!

I disagree with the hate of multiple tier approach. If the multiple tier gives more money to the manufacturers they can be healthier businesses. When Stern was running the 1 model approach they were the only manufacturer and they were in financial trouble. That isn’t a great business model.

It’s just very simple and Thank God , still basic economics ..
Their is not enough supply to meet the demand ... 5,000 game run for a country with
360 million people not even conserving Europe and our friends in Australia ...

Did you find it wrong in the 80’s when people were paying 2 K over sticker for their new Honda . Now in Todays world 2k over for the hard to find Bronco ?

I can also tell you when for example , Chevrolet couldn’t give new Blazer away , gas prices to high . Our local dealer Huber Chevrolet made you a deal that if you paid full sticker price
For the Blazer ( about $ 6,000 ) he gave you a new Chevette for free ,, so Mom and Dad both got new cars . It went from couldn’t give the Blazer away to empty lots in a very few short weeks .. Remember , everything always , all of the time , it’s supply vs demand

I saw the post! Makes me crazy. Glad the pinball community spoke up. What a turd. It looks like he pulled the ad. The PF machines will be available as time goes on. Fomo hit people hard. Be patience!

One word. Stupid

This is how I think about it: Companies make a lot higher margin on higher trim pins. That allows them to sell Pros to lowly people like myself who don't want to spend $2500-$5k on "extras". If Premiums and LEs didn't exist, I'd imagine Pros would have to cost more.

It is becoming very much the exception, but there are some games that will not be readily valuable for retail…mainly ones made by CGC. CGC prices below market value. If you want PF cool topper you really don’t have much of a choice…question is will it be cheaper to do so now or a year from now. CCRLE has held its market value, it’s my guess PF will as well. JJP found the market ceiling with their CE pricing, CGC is priced so far below that there is room for upside.

I agree that there is absolutely no reason to rush on a 15k CE or Spooky game. Stern LEs are a harder call..bond is a dud, but FF looks like a winner and will probably track more like Godzilla. The good thing with stern is you aren’t missing a ton just going premium, unlike the PF exclusive topper. For me, I only have so much space…I want to max out that space with the best version of the game made. I personally haven’t had to pay flipper prices yet to achieve that but got lucky in that I FOMO’d on the right games (PF and FF).

You FOMOed on the right games for you.

The fact that the invoice hasn’t come due and prob won’t for at least a year, helps create the short term FOMO.

There are 1,000 of these toppers and there will be plenty available in the future.

Just like Foo and EVERY other game out there

Can you buy CCR LE or Godzilla LE for retail. There are some games that can never be had for retail once initial sell out. It is the exception, but does happen. People have been waiting over a year for CCR and the market price has never come close to getting back to retail. If your someone that buys most releases you will absolutely lose more than you win.

Still early. Maybe that's the issue. Some folks have not been through the cycles yet. In 2 years amazing super cool , must have games will come out and someone will definitely be making a new place for them by selling these games.

Plenty of godzillas have changed hands on secondary market and it largely holds its value. JJP found the ceiling, but I think a really good game does have some room to get more expensive if priced well by manufacturer (Godzillla was 10.5k I think). All CGC LEs also hold their value really well because of their toppers. I am not arguing people should pay crazy prices for games, just recognizing some pins will end up going up in value.

Easy solution... just auction off spots for limited runs. Manufacturer gets the premium that folks are willing to pay and scalping isn't possible.

(Won't ever happen though since it doesn't generate the same hype as the FOMO approach...pump and dumpers have a strong incentive to pump in the current system)

Nothing wrong with asking 2500 for the spot. Plenty of wanted ads for PFLE, you want a spot now? Gotta pay for it.

For YEARS! Welcome back for sure Hwawonyu!

It's just in bad form and clogs up the Pinside forum. I could put up ads for each of my games for $2500 over the going rate hoping for someone desperate enough but I'm not going to do it even though id be willing to sell them. If someone wants to pay $2500 over it would make sense for the buyer to put up a WTB ad stating what they are willing to pay and then someone can contact them directly.

I’ve yet to be tempted by a game enough to pay over MSRP or deal with a flipper, but if a dream theme of mine were to be announced and I missed the opportunity to buy directly from a distributor, I could see shelling out up to $1500 over MSRP for it.

That said my dream theme is unlikely to happen in the next 15 or so years because the themes right now are for grandpas wanting their favorite IP from 30 years ago.

The $ isn’t worth the same because you and I and all these people on pinside somehow have excess, “disposable $”, and that’s one huge reason why there is demand for $15k toys to begin with.

The original post was kinder than I expected. I find it disgusting people lock a spot just to sell.

Regarding the quote above. Thing is buying preorder spots isn't want it now. You are buying something not even made. Maybe if you are paying to move up the line.

Does it matter? CCRLE is the perfect example.

They still have 2/3 RDs of LEs to make, including mine, when they are all done and out there the prices will drop.

A GZLE is considered the “best pin ever” in the rankings and they are still making premiums.

1,000 LEs of anything at todays prices you will likely lose value which shouldn’t matter anyhow.

Agreed. Although I’m surprised how many folks on Pinside aren’t aware of LENGTHY manufacturing timelines. My CCr LE is still no updates. If buyer thinks they’re getting it quicker sale is still done.

Literally! But glad to have the bug again. Thank you!!

Buy a car or reload the basement... doh!!

Being rich doesn't make you a jerk or a bad person, but it very rarely makes you patient.

Yes. My boss has more money than gawd, he’s in his seventies now and looking to share his fortunes. 20 years ago no one, NO ONE made close to what he made or they were fired. Different person now.

He can share his fortune by purchasing me all the latest FOMO releases; let’s start with Tank Force.

It’s a simple explanation
There is a blurry line between people buying for their own use and an investment.

Obviously the guy that sold his “slot” for $1K more than he paid for it was an opportunist.

Possibly a 3rd category here. The guy that buys every new pin with the intention to sell in less than 6 months.

I think if supply chain gets better, and market gets a little more wobbly, there could be some disappointment on the investment people here. But, what do I know.
In the last 5 plus years you could almost buy any new pin and move for same or more than you paid. Noted possibly 4 or 5 exceptions to the rule. But, 50 plus other pins you were even to made $$.

Will the market support more $15k plus games? Who knows

The last two years have created this monster. Alot of newbies entering the hobby have helped drive demand, and we have seen this manifest with people selling IN-PRODUCTION, NON-LIMITED games for a premium... look through the archive at GZ...

Because idiots couldn't wait for a game, people have been doing this for a while... While I don't agree with the guy asking a $2500 premium for PF, I don't understand why he got jumped on when we ignored the folks flipping GZ Prems (sometimes over a $1K premium) which stern will be running forever... Do we just care one is a "slot" vs a game in hand? Even today, there are numerous ads (selling at a premium) for "extra" games from folks who ordered from multiple distributors. That to me is more problematic than selling a slot for a truly limited game...

Again, I don't agree with either, but don't understand why we lambast one while ignoring tons of others doing the same thing... At least the PF guy was trying to flip a spot for a limited game.