(Topic ID: 258597)

To add pop bumper mylar or not


By phergott

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 62 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 76 days ago by D-Gottlieb
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 62 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 7 months ago

Hey guys, so I'm in the process of reassembling the pf on my Bally Wizard, and am indecisive about whether to add adhesive mylar under the pop bumpers. I always install them after a restore, but with nearly 80k plays on the meter the wear was VERY minimal. Would just like a consensus on whether to add them or not.

20191228_154209 (resized).jpg
#2 7 months ago

I wax first then add them. Easier to remove in the future then if you want to.

#3 7 months ago

I assume stock paint is the only surface - you haven't cleared over the existing paint.

I'll let others chime in... but if you didn't do clear - I'd personally consider clear Mylar rings with maybe a coating of wax between the painted surface and the mylar ring.

If you decide to go the mylar route; I do sell mylar rings in clear. I'd also be willing to do a custom shape if you'd prefer.

#4 7 months ago

I always add mylar under pops, as well as any other high wear areas. Like mentioned above, wax the playfield first.

#5 7 months ago

Adding mylar. Thanks for the input guys.

-6
#6 7 months ago

Always add PBR endorsed non adhesive mylar under pops-never had a problem and provided great protection.

#7 7 months ago
Quoted from wayner:

Always add non adhesive mylar under pops-never had a problem and provided great protection.

That's worse than no mylar at all. Dirt and grime gets trapped under the non-adhesive mylar, and gets ground into the playfield, and wears it down much faster.

-5
#8 7 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

That's worse than no mylar at all. Dirt and grime gets trapped under the non-adhesive mylar, and gets ground into the playfield, and wears it down much faster.

Very forceful words which bear no relationship to my experience and the experience of many when adhesive mylar is removed from playfields. There is absolutely no need to damn the experience of others particularly, I would have thought, when you are a moderator!

#9 7 months ago

That wasn't forceful... and the moderator is entitled to participate in these thread.
I happened to agree with him. You are free to voice your own experience and let others decide which is the right answer.

#10 7 months ago

Here is some evidence of what can occur when Mylar pop bumper protectors without stickum is used:

DSCF0016 (resized).JPG

DSCF0013 (resized).JPG

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DSCF0015 (resized).JPG

After some cleaning:

DSCF0020 (resized).JPG

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I know nothing about the history of this Gottlieb Snow Derby so I can't tell you if these pop bumper protectors are original or add-ons.

Dirt and grit CAN collect under the protector, causing wear, possibly even increasing the speed of the wear. Without the adhesive, these protectors tend to lift over time and no longer lie flat on the playfield - not an aesthetically pleasing sight.

Given a choice between non-adhesive or adhesive, I would choose the adhesive pop bumper protectors. Removing the pop bumpers and thoroughly cleaning and waxing the area under and around the pop bumpers is a must before putting on the adhesive Mylar pop bumper protectors.

There is another option that you might want to consider. It involves using the non-adhesive protectors and some rubber cement. It is experimental, so consider that carefully before you choose this option. If it doesn't work out for you, it should be fully reversible:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-pecos-diary-tips-and-tricks-for-restoring-and-fixing-em-and-ss-pins#post-5335577

#11 7 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

That's worse than no mylar at all. Dirt and grime gets trapped under the non-adhesive mylar, and gets ground into the playfield, and wears it down much faster.

I agree. In my experience, the non-adhesive ones look ok until they ruck-up which then allows crud underneath. I prefer adhesive ones, but, I like to re-touch any damaged areas first, then apply some lacquer to seal and then the adhesives ones on top once the lacquer has completely cured.

#12 7 months ago

I have used both; my advice for the non-adhesive ones is as part of maintenance, making sure you clean under them periodically to prevent build up of any crud.

The reality is in a home environment I don't think they will cause any significant wear.

#13 7 months ago

I'd also consider some at the top between the gates. On every wizard I've seen this area develops a giant rut.

Non adhesive mylar rings are the reason every gotty black hole I've ever seen has playfield damage.

#14 7 months ago

Were the non-adhesive type Mylar rings stock on any OEM games? I have a Gottlieb Buccaneer sample that was mostly home use that has them on. They are very dirty and I’ve considered removing and replacing them until I read the comments above. Now I wonder if they should even be there.

#15 7 months ago
Quoted from Gotemwill:

Were the non-adhesive type Mylar rings stock on any OEM games? I have a Gottlieb Buccaneer sample that was mostly home use that has them on. They are very dirty and I’ve considered removing and replacing them until I read the comments above. Now I wonder if they should even be there.

Common on Gottlieb for decades.

#16 7 months ago

It's just another maintenance item. Adhesive require less maintenance. Non adhesive require some maintenance to keep them clear of contaminants.

I have many 50,000 plus play Gottlieb games which came to me with original non adhesive mylar with trivial wear underneath. Something tells me the operators of these games maintained them properly.

The picture example above is clearly a poorly maintained game.

#17 7 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

I'd also consider some at the top between the gates. On every wizard I've seen this area develops a giant rut.
Non adhesive mylar rings are the reason every gotty black hole I've ever seen has playfield damage.

Thankfully the wear near the kickout was minimal compared to others I've seen on this title. After touching up the wear area, I spot polyurethaned it.

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#18 7 months ago

For home use, you simply don't need pop bumper Mylar. Pop bumper Mylar is for machines that aren't regularly maintained. I remove any pop bumper Mylar from my machines, and then do a thorough cleaning around the pop bumpers. Then I apply a few coats of wax around the pop bumpers. This protects the paint and the machine plays faster without the Mylar...

#19 7 months ago

#TeamAdhesiveMylar

#20 7 months ago
Quoted from MikeO:

The picture example above is clearly a poorly maintained game.

Oh, I don't know about that. Someone took the time to replace this with a rubber band ring!

DSCF0023 (resized).JPG

Based on the Project Pins I get, most home pin owners aren't particularly good at keeping their EM pinball machines maintained, cleaned and waxed.

#21 7 months ago
Quoted from Pecos:

Based on the Project Pins I get, most home pin owners aren't particularly good at keeping their EM pinball machines maintained, cleaned and waxed.

So true!

#22 7 months ago

Here is what those lovely floaty mylar rings Gottlieb used do when I presume that area is not cleaned well. My current project.
PopS (resized).jpg

#23 7 months ago

Here’s my current project that had non-adhesive mylar around the pops, another Snow Derby.
image (resized).jpg

#24 7 months ago

Mine did not deteriorate as much.
6373AAF4-F067-4F7D-9CC3-70AB1CBB036D (resized).jpeg

#25 7 months ago
Quoted from fredsmythson:

For home use, you simply don't need pop bumper Mylar. Pop bumper Mylar is for machines that aren't regularly maintained. I remove any pop bumper Mylar from my machines, and then do a thorough cleaning around the pop bumpers. Then I apply a few coats of wax around the pop bumpers. This protects the paint and the machine plays faster without the Mylar...

Thanks for this. Getting rid of the 3 dirt traps on my Flip a Card tonight. Tomorrow cleaning and waxing.

#26 7 months ago

Looks like Im in the Minority but I dont install any mylar on EM games. After touch ups and re-clear i just keep em clean and waxed. For HUO EMs (in my opinion) Mylar isnt needed, provided you keep them clean and waxed and new balls inserted.

#27 7 months ago

Non-adhesive mylar has NEVER been my friend.

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#28 7 months ago

Is there a way to remove the non-adhesive Mylar rings without completely removing the pop bumper body from the playfield?

#29 7 months ago
Quoted from Gotemwill:

Is there a way to remove the non-adhesive Mylar rings without completely removing the pop bumper body from the playfield?

A pair of scissors?
Or are you implying you want to do this an reuse the mylar ring? If so; no. you have to remove the pop body which requires desoldering of the lamp wires at a minimum.

#30 7 months ago
Quoted from Zitt:

A pair of scissors?
Or are you implying you want to do this an reuse the mylar ring? If so; no. you have to remove the pop body which requires desoldering of the lamp wires at a minimum.

I guess what I was really asking is if it’s tough to completely remove them without removing the pop bumper, not having done it before. I didn’t want to attack it if I was just going to make a mess. Are they usually just held in place by the two metal rods?

I’m also assuming that there is no sense in trying to save them to reuse them? It seems to me that with all the dirt that’s accumulated under them that even if I could clean them up, they are probably scratched up pretty good and would continue to wear the playfield. Again, another reason why I didn’t want to hack them up if I could reuse them especially after reading that the non-adhesive ones aren’t being made.

#31 7 months ago
Quoted from Gotemwill:

Is there a way to remove the non-adhesive Mylar rings without completely removing the pop bumper body from the playfield?

I used a small extremely sharp pointed pair of scissors to remove non-adhesive mylar on all my games. I cut the mylar ring in four quarters. If your looking at the mylar ring as if it were a clock scale....the cuts are made at 12, 3, 6, and 9 (3 and 9 are at the metal pop rings).

Make sure the scissors cut completely through the mylar ring edges. You can lift the plastic pop bumper lower ring up at each section of the cut to get you through the mylar completely.

Once the cuts are made you can use a heavy duty linemans pliers to pull a part the mylar ring, but you'll need to use some force. Be very careful not to scrap the playfield while pulling off mylar with the pliers. You might be able to slip a thin piece of cardboard under the mylar ring before attempting to pull off with pliers.
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#32 7 months ago

That’s great, Vic. I will be performing the surgery soon. Thank you!

#33 7 months ago

Anyone every do colored rings? I thought I might give it a try

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#34 7 months ago
Quoted from Murphdom:

Anyone every do colored rings? I thought I might give it a try

Scale is hard to determine from your pictures; but they look a little small.
I sell colored pop bumper mylaron my site.

#35 7 months ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Scale is hard to determine from your pictures; but they look a little small.
I sell
colored pop bumper mylaron my site.

They are the correct size. They just look small next to that giant circle cutter.

1 month later
#36 5 months ago
Quoted from phergott:

I always install them after a restore, but with nearly 80k plays on the meter the wear was VERY minimal. Would just like a consensus on whether to add them or not.

I'd recommend replacing the mylars even for home use as personally, I like the glossy reflection particularly when the pop is lit during play. They also deflect any touch-up imperfections if there are any. The pops appear a little, "Out of place" to me without mylars during play, (from what I'm used to).

#37 5 months ago

I decided to do adhesive mylar-glad I did.

20200118_083831 (resized).jpg
#38 5 months ago

I'm with Mike O all the way here. Just the state of some of the non adhesive mylar rings in this thread tells you all you need to know about what has happened. These games were not well maintained. If you take the time to restore a game, then maintain it. If the platters are so bad that they're curled up and you couldn't read anything through them, it's a maintenence issue. Not a platter issue.
This is my Royal Guard that I restored 8 years ago. It has received fairly regular play in the years since. This is how the non adhesive mylars and the playfield underneath look today. The area under the bumpers was like a lot of the playfield, pretty roached. I had to sand out the ball wear groove in the upper arch, it was so bad the ball would hang in it.

Royal Guard platters (resized).jpg

#39 5 months ago

Restored a host of games with the adhesive mylar and have moved away from that approach; it's just too difficult to get it applied without micro-bubbles, no matter how flat your playfield is, at least in my experience.

I go naked, no mylar whatsoever.

#40 5 months ago

I apply adhesive mylar to my em games. No bubbles, just install like a screen protector. They are obviously beneficial and prevent playfield wear so they are a no-brainer.

2 months later
#41 79 days ago

Would you add them (adhesive style) to an NOS play field?

#42 79 days ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

Would you add them (adhesive style) to an NOS play field?

Absolutely.

#43 79 days ago

In a home environment you'll probably never face the issue but the problem with the adhesive mylar is, well, it's adhesive. If it gets messed up you run the chance of paint loss trying to remove it.

Again, the results from the non adhesive mylar platters are because nobody maintained the game, not that the mylar caused the damage.

#44 79 days ago
Quoted from Pecos:

Here is some evidence of what can occur when Mylar pop bumper protectors without stickum is used:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
After some cleaning:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I know nothing about the history of this Gottlieb Snow Derby so I can't tell you if these pop bumper protectors are original or add-ons.
Dirt and grit CAN collect under the protector, causing wear, possibly even increasing the speed of the wear. Without the adhesive, these protectors tend to lift over time and no longer lie flat on the playfield - not an aesthetically pleasing sight.
Given a choice between non-adhesive or adhesive, I would choose the adhesive pop bumper protectors. Removing the pop bumpers and thoroughly cleaning and waxing the area under and around the pop bumpers is a must before putting on the adhesive Mylar pop bumper protectors.
There is another option that you might want to consider. It involves using the non-adhesive protectors and some rubber cement. It is experimental, so consider that carefully before you choose this option. If it doesn't work out for you, it should be fully reversible:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-pecos-diary-tips-and-tricks-for-restoring-and-fixing-em-and-ss-pins#post-5335577

I'd bet they are original because in order to replace them, you need to remove the bumpers. And the condition of those bumpers tells you that has never been done.

#45 79 days ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Non adhesive mylar rings are the reason every gotty black hole I've ever seen has playfield damage.

Same if not worse on Haunted House.

#46 79 days ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

I apply adhesive mylar to my em games. No bubbles, just install like a screen protector. They are obviously beneficial and prevent playfield wear so they are a no-brainer.

Pinball Resource has the nice thick ones that are easy to work with and lay out flat. The ones Marco sells are paper thin and wrinkle up as you try to lay them down.

#47 79 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

In a home environment you'll probably never face the issue but the problem with the adhesive mylar is, well, it's adhesive. If it gets messed up you run the chance of paint loss trying to remove it.

Agreed, but I'd wax the heck out of the pf before putting down the mylar

#48 78 days ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

Agreed, but I'd wax the heck out of the pf before putting down the mylar

Sure. But you really only need a normal waxing. If you put down multiple coats it really won't give any more protection

#49 78 days ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

Agreed, but I'd wax the heck out of the pf before putting down the mylar

Doesn't adhesive have a tough time sticking to wax?

#50 78 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

Sure. But you really only need a normal waxing. If you put down multiple coats it really won't give any more protection

I know, but it sounded good.

It would be able to be removed without (hopefully) pulling up paint.

I'm concerned about ruining a 49 year old NOS pf if I add the mylar, as well as if I don't add mylar! Granted this will only be home use only, so it won't get much wear at all.

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