(Topic ID: 241661)

Time Machine resurrection project (IT LIVES!)


By gdonovan

27 days ago



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There are 105 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 13 days ago

A testrom will certainly provide you insight about what your CPU board is doing or not doing. The Reset signal is just a DC signal and easy to measure with a multimeter. Reset is active if pin 40 is low, 0 volts. The board will not boot in this case. You will need a Logic probe or oscilloscope to check the clock signals.

The PIA LED will just be stuck if your board isn't booting. You can check if the diagnostics are working: remove the SRAM -> turn the game on -> the PIA LED will flash one time. If this diagnostic signal is working it tells you the board is at minimum starting its diagnostic routines; also telling you the reset signal and clock signals are probably okay.

AMI chips are unfortunately a common failure point. It is worth to try another 6802/6808.

Also check the IC sockets for the CPU, ROMs and SRAM for corrosion due to a leaking battery. At IPDB.ORG you will find the gamerom binaries.

#52 13 days ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

A testrom will certainly provide you insight about what your CPU board is doing or not doing. The Reset signal is just a DC signal and easy to measure with a multimeter. Reset is active if pin 40 is low, 0 volts. The board will not boot in this case. You will need a Logic probe or oscilloscope to check the clock signals.
The PIA LED will just be stuck if your board isn't booting. You can check if the diagnostics are working: remove the SRAM -> turn the game on -> the PIA LED will flash one time. If this diagnostic signal is working it tells you the board is at minimum starting its diagnostic routines; also telling you the reset signal and clock signals are probably okay.
AMI chips are unfortunately a common failure point. It is worth to try another 6802/6808.
Also check the IC sockets for the CPU, ROMs and SRAM for corrosion due to a leaking battery. At IPDB.ORG you will find the gamerom binaries.

Pulling the ram causes the PIA to flash once and then go out, I'll try and check the voltage on pin 40 of the CPU next and pull the Eproms to test.

No spare 6802 or 6808, I even pulled some arcade boards I have here just in case they had one.

Question- What is the difference between a 27c128 and a 27cp128? Never run across that and info seems scarce.

The upper Eprom is a 27cp128, lower is a 27c256.

The roms on the net are version 2.4, my current ones are 2.3. I'm concerned with putting the original 27CP128 in the reader as it is not listed.

#53 13 days ago

Well this is a pleasant surprise!

I popped the 2 CPU program Eproms back in and much to my surprise the machine booted to life.

Forward again but with some caveats!

Aside from "TIME MACHINE" call out during boot up there is no sound at all from the speakers.

You get this thing into "the 50's" and the chime box fires up and this thing goes nuts! Still nothing from the speakers though.

Edited- Just double checked something.

We now have 5V and blanking lights so ASSUME the PIA are fine and will ignore them for the moment. Disregard my brain fart 5 minutes ago.

So the next problem is display and sound, where do I go from here?

Thank you for your help!
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#54 13 days ago

No one said coming back from the dead would be easy.

#55 12 days ago

@MarAlb

Question this morning; since there seems to be little information available for trouble shooting this DE board should I be looking at information about the Williams boards? I'm getting the impression they are very similar or will the differences get me in trouble? Thanks for your time.

#56 12 days ago

Stern founded DE Pinball, so there is some crossover with Stern diagnostics from the late 80’s. There are some similarities between the Williams boards also. DE boards have their own difficulties though.

#57 12 days ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

Stern founded DE Pinball, so there is some crossover with Stern diagnostics from the late 80’s. There are some similarities between the Williams boards also. DE boards have their own difficulties though.

The reason I mention Williams as the Williams 5 volt board is interchangeable and Rottendog makes a MPU board that was the same PCB or close (not sure, have to do some research further) plus you can use a Williams test prom for diagnostics.

I'm going to tackle the display next as once I have proper display output then it will be easier to sort everything else using the MPU diagnostics.

Switch matrix is good as I have been able to test them all when it is in 50's mode with the chime box.

I'm going to look this afternoon as to which PN is used for sound Eproms and burn a new set if I have the correct ones on hand.

Worth a shot if I have the right chips on hand and cost me nothing and eliminate them as a problem.

#58 11 days ago

Did a bunch of reading today, the DE MPU board is very much like the Williams System 11

Still a wee bit in the dark about how the MPU works with the soundboard but still researching.

Found the DE test rom, so will burn that tomorrow and see if I can access the sound test.

Repaired a flasher that was out (broken wiring) and pulled the sound board and made sure all the removable chip contacts were clean, no change.

Ordered 555 and 906 LED's from Comet.

#59 11 days ago

I had a VERY similar boot from my TM when I got it - there's a SRAM chip on mine that was replaced recently that I cannot for the life of me remember the number of - which was bad, I socketed, and replaced, and got the machine to boot and play. I will find this chip and socket number on the MPU board and report back. It was not any of the PIA chips or the CPU (which I ordered based on system diags).

#60 11 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

I had a VERY similar boot from my TM when I got it - there's a
SRAM chip on mine that was replaced recently that I cannot
for the
life of me remember the number of - which was bad, I
socketed, and
replaced, and got the machine to boot and play. I will find
this
chip and socket number on the MPU board and report back. It
was not
any of the PIA chips or the CPU (which I ordered based on
system
diags).

Thanks!

Just to clarify at this stage the machine will start and boot
fine and you can play games, just has no sound and garbled
display.

so in a thumbnail:

1) Machine boots up, no errors on MPU LED's (5v and blanking
lit.)
2) States "TIME MACHINE" on power up which indicates the
sound card isn't dead. (but could have other issues) and speakers are good.
3) Switch matrix is good, all work.
4) Lights all work now as they should.
5) All coils operate as they should.
6) Chimes work and respond to switch inputs.

The tech in me keeps circling around to the 6821 PIA located at
location 9 (display and sound control) as a possible common
denominator in the sound and display issues, but the board LED
shows no PIA errors. Until a logic probe shows up in the mail so I
can compare that PIA to the others I'm spinning my wheels. I have
no spare parts to swap out and isolate the display or sound card,
though I have several times almost ordered up a Rottendog display
board. I'd like to keep the originals if possible.

I'm started with a dead mystery machine so anything is
possible.

#61 10 days ago

There *seems* to be a communication problem between MPU and Soundboard. The sound PIA at the MPU board can be defective -dead outputs or a dead Interrupt capability. There can be a problem with the band cable too. The Input buffer/latch (LS374) also is suspect at the soundboard. I would start with testing your MPU board with a testrom and trying another bandcable.

Good luck!

#62 10 days ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

There *seems* to be a communication problem between MPU and
Soundboard. The sound PIA at the MPU board can be defective
-dead
outputs or a dead Interrupt capability.

1) Can I test the sound/display PIA by comparing it to the other PIA on the MPU with a logic probe? It will be here Thursday.

2) Would not the board catch that on boot up? Or does DE not do a good job testing them or just tests certain ones?

Quoted from MarAlb:

There can be a problem with the band cable too.

I did try flipping it 180 degrees on both ends, changed nothing.
I can ohm it out easy enough to positively eliminate it as an
issue.

Quoted from MarAlb:

The Input buffer/latch (LS374) also is suspect at the
soundboard.

Is there an simple way to test with logic probe or meter? Will
keep that part in mind once I explore further.

I will be running a test rom tonight and post results, thank you
again!

Gary

#63 10 days ago

A PIA can have some defective outputs and the rest of its internals can still function okay. In this case it is possible the PIA is not detected as being defective. Try to test the MPU board with the testrom I send to you earlier. It has a PIA initialization test and a test which cycles the outputs at an about 1Hz cycle. Easy to measure with a (fast) multimeter. You can also connect an LED with series resistor to test each output (pins 2-17, 19, 39).

#64 10 days ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

A PIA can have some defective outputs and the rest of its
internals can still function okay. In this case it is possible the
PIA is not detected as being defective. Try to test the MPU board
with the testrom I send to you earlier. It has a PIA initialization
test and a test which cycles the outputs at an about 1Hz cycle.
Easy to measure with a (fast) multimeter. You can also connect an
LED with series resistor to test each output (pins 2-17, 19,
39).

Interesting test results!

Don't laugh, I did not have the proper resistor so wired 2 500 ohm pots in series from Gottlieb 5V power supply and it worked great.

Before going further- The PIA light seemed to skip "test 1" it would be solid and then go out and then 2 flash, 3 flash, 4 flash etc. I'm assuming this is ok as the same PIA controls the PIA/5V/Blanking LED and it works fine. I did not do any tests of the CPU as the game boots and plays.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tested the following with test LED:

Sound PIA location #6/7
Segment and sound control PIA location #8/9

This tested ok, very easy as board relay going click-clack-click-clack in time with LED.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Display strobe 7-segment location PIA #10/11 (This one tested different from the other two)

Pin 4 flashing double time compared to others, Pin 9 was solid on.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check cable to sound card, it passed continuity test with flying colors.

Had to unplug cables for coils, chimes very loud.
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#65 9 days ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

You can also connect an
LED with series resistor to test each output (pins 2-17, 19,
39).

Just a follow up for yesterday- Since I have time I decided to check all the 6821 on the board and double check my results to make sure I did not make mistakes.

The last 2 unchecked PIA; the switch PIA passed no problem but very curious the Lamp PIA indicates failure. The only 2 pins that will pulse are pins 2 and 39, the others are "locked on" which is curious as far as I can tell all the lamps seem to work proper. This would be the one directly below the one with the red arrow.

#66 9 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Just a follow up for yesterday- Since I have time I decided to check all the 6821 on the board and double check my results to make sure I did not make mistakes.
The last 2 unchecked PIA; the switch PIA passed no problem but very curious the Lamp PIA indicates failure. The only 2 pins that will pulse are pins 2 and 39, the others are "locked on" which is curious as far as I can tell all the lamps seem to work proper. This would be the one directly below the one with the red arrow.

That 6821 on my machine was socketed. And replaced before I got it. FYI.

#67 9 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

That 6821 on my machine was socketed. And replaced before I got it. FYI.

Ordered sockets and chips this morning, all I have to go on at the moment and cheap enough. Tonight I'm going to go over the sound board and get all the cap locations and sizes and put an order in at Mouser, they are all old and should be replaced regardless. Logic probe should be in today along with another package from PBResource and Comet.

While waiting for parts, I have a Hearts and Spades that the cabinet desperately needs attention.

#68 8 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

That 6821 on my machine was socketed. And replaced before I got it. FYI.

Out of curiosity; what behavior was your machine exhibiting?

No two problems are exactly the same of course (aside from GI wiring catching fire, that seems common!)

#69 8 days ago

Indeed interesting results. There is a time difference between us - sometimes a catch a thread at pinside sometimes not…..

In a nutshell....

- your board boots and plays, but without sound and displays are also not behaving as they should (can be a displaypanel also)

- The PIA init test is failing at the first display PIA ($2800 base address) - the others seem to respond.

- The Lamp control PIA is dead at the testrom output test, but with gameroms it is doing its job as it should.

Is the Switch matrix test in the testrom performing okay? (activate an input results in a pulsing output ??)

Hard to Judge at the distance unable to see and perform some measurements. I would be very interested about the selection signals to each PIA at pin 23. An oscilloscope is a useful instrument for this, I hope a logic probe will catch this signal also. Why the selectionsignals? There is a possibilty one of the PIA's is permanently selected, eating the data meant for another PIA. This is not an easy fault at your board....

#70 8 days ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Indeed interesting results. There is a time difference between us - sometimes a catch a thread at pinside sometimes not…..
In a nutshell....
- your board boots and plays, but without sound and displays are also not behaving as they should (can be a displaypanel also)
- The PIA init test is failing at the first display PIA ($2800 base address) - the others seem to respond.
- The Lamp control PIA is dead at the testrom output test, but with gameroms it is doing its job as it should.
Is the Switch matrix test in the testrom performing okay? (activate an input results in a pulsing output ??)
Hard to Judge at the distance unable to see and perform some measurements. I would be very interested about the selection signals to each PIA at pin 23. An oscilloscope is a useful instrument for this, I hope a logic probe will catch this signal also. Why the selectionsignals? There is a possibilty one of the PIA's is permanently selected, eating the data meant for another PIA. This is not an easy fault at your board....

You are fine and I'm very appreciative of your assistance. I have another game to keep me busy while waiting for parts and advice! I have been looking for a Hearts and Spades for years, they only made 615 of them and it needs much cabinet and playfield work.

Logic probe will be in today and in case more than one or two PIA are bad I ordered 8 sockets and 9 chips. I'm assuming I'll be doing this on another game in the future perhaps or can pass them along to someone else that needs them in a pinch.

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#71 8 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Out of curiosity; what behavior was your machine exhibiting?
No two problems are exactly the same of course (aside from GI wiring catching fire, that seems common!)

gdonovan

Ok, I'll try to be exact.

The game would power on, the beginning of the song "Time Machine" would play, then no more audio. No init of the displays. GI lighting came on, but not back box lighting if I remember correctly.

Did 5V tests on the PSU, which was an older Williams system 9 PSU I believe, and it was good on the PSU and on the MPU. 4.9+ VDC I believe.

Observing power on state, the lights on the MPU would do this: all would flicker on, then the second and third light came on, the right light (PIA) flickered once and then was on solid. Blanking light stayed off. Diagnostics per the manual stated dead/bad PIA.

On my MPU, what looks to me like chip 11 (per the silk screen) - a 6821, was socketed prior to me receiving it.

I took the MPU board down (labeled all the damned connectors this time!!!), pulled the 6821, replaced it, plugged the board back in, and same blasted error.

I took the board down again, closely examining any board work, chip replacements, burns, etc, and found that the SRAM chip (Hyundai HY6264HYLP-10) was socketed, looked new, and two of the legs were bent inward and not making positive contact with the socket. Gingerly took it out, bent the pins back, reseated, put the board back, and WHAMMO the game worked. Mostly. Have a 100V problem from the ganky PSU, but that's another story.

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#72 8 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

gdonovan
Ok, I'll try to be exact.
The game would power on, the beginning of the song "Time Machine" would play, then no more audio. No init of the displays. GI lighting came on, but not back box lighting if I remember correctly.
Did 5V tests on the PSU, which was an older Williams system 9 PSU I believe, and it was good on the PSU and on the MPU. 4.9+ VDC I believe.
Observing power on state, the lights on the MPU would do this: all would flicker on, then the second and third light came on, the right light (PIA) flickered once and then was on solid. Blanking light stayed off. Diagnostics per the manual stated dead/bad PIA.
On my MPU, what looks to me like chip 11 (per the silk screen) - a 6821, was socketed prior to me receiving it.
I took the MPU board down (labeled all the damned connectors this time!!!), pulled the 6821, replaced it, plugged the board back in, and same blasted error.
I took the board down again, closely examining any board work, chip replacements, burns, etc, and found that the SRAM chip (Hyundai HY6264HYLP-10) was socketed, looked new, and two of the legs were bent inward and not making positive contact with the socket. Gingerly took it out, bent the pins back, reseated, put the board back, and WHAMMO the game worked. Mostly. Have a 100V problem from the ganky PSU, but that's another story.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I find it somewhat interesting that chip was replaced. Also you sound cable is routed different than mine which was behind the PCB.

Installed package of LED from Comet that come in today, HOLY SMOKES what a difference! Flipping light show is hilarious, you can see what is going on behind the inserts now, we love it!

Some interesting news, I might have something coming in this weekend to help me diagnose some problems. I'll keep you posted..

#73 8 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

I have to ask as this seems like a recent post - does anyone have good schematics for the PSU board? Everything I've found online is illegible. Hope to have my TM up and running too, this looks to be a great game.

Just a follow up on this- I think several games use the same boards, I just downloaded and printed 3 manuals the other day for troubleshooting as they had better scans. Secret Service, Torpedo Ally and Playboy 35th all use the same basic hardware.

#74 7 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Just a follow up on this- I think several games use the same boards, I just downloaded and printed 3 manuals the other day for troubleshooting as they had better scans. Secret Service, Torpedo Ally and Playboy 35th all use the same basic hardware.

Thanks, I'll search for those.

#75 7 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

No one said coming back from the dead would be easy.

1) I praise you for resurrecting this machine. Many would have said the heck with it and parted it out.

2) I absolutely LOVE the call outs when you turn on Data East machines. not just a "bong". you know you turned on the Time Machine!

Chris

#76 7 days ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

1) I praise you for resurrecting this machine. Many would have said the heck with it and parted it out.
2) I absolutely LOVE the call outs when you turn on Data East machines. not just a "bong". you know you turned on the Time Machine!
Chris

Thanks! She has good bones; nice playfield, decent cabinet, most of the hardware. Would have been senseless to part it out. Get it working again, give the playfield a good scrub, repaint to the cabinet (decals are available for the art) and she is good to go. Already have an apron and I have a line on a backglass. I'm hoping to rebuild the displays, one needs replacement due to a broken lead. Worse case just order a LED set from Rottendog if the used ones I'm chasing fall through.

Even with no sound or scoring the game is fun as heck, been practicing shots between rounds of troubleshooting. Getting excited to have it working 100% and I'm learning something new as a bonus.

#77 6 days ago

Waiting is the hardest part guys, maybe I'll have something to post tomorrow

#78 6 days ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Indeed interesting results. There is a time difference between us - sometimes a catch a thread at pinside sometimes not…..
In a nutshell....
- your board boots and plays, but without sound and displays are also not behaving as they should (can be a displaypanel also)
- The PIA init test is failing at the first display PIA ($2800 base address) - the others seem to respond.
- The Lamp control PIA is dead at the testrom output test, but with gameroms it is doing its job as it should.
Is the Switch matrix test in the testrom performing okay? (activate an input results in a pulsing output ??)
Hard to Judge at the distance unable to see and perform some measurements. I would be very interested about the selection signals to each PIA at pin 23. An oscilloscope is a useful instrument for this, I hope a logic probe will catch this signal also. Why the selectionsignals? There is a possibilty one of the PIA's is permanently selected, eating the data meant for another PIA. This is not an easy fault at your board....

Well; TWO interesting developments today!

1) For some reason the test rom does not work now. The logic probe came in and I went to use it yesterday. I carefully removed the game proms, installed the test rom.. and nothing. The 5V and PIA LED come on and the machine does nothing. I took the test prom and popped it in the burner and it said it was fine, back in machine it does nothing. Burned another chip and the same thing, nothing. Any idea for this behavior? Very odd!

2) This one is exciting!

The display works! Or at least the upper row does! I can see the test menus now! WOOP!

A self inflicted wound to some degree. When I got the machine the ribbon cable was plugged in and I was very careful to reinstall it just how I found it. I had the cable off for several days and today decided to hook it back up for some reason and very carefully noted pin 1 and the location of the red stripe. It was much to my surprise that the cable as I got the machine was on backwards and was most excited when the machine fired up and the display illuminated!

The lower right display I didn't expect much as it has a broken wire, no idea why the lower left is out but at least I have a starting point to compare upper and lower displays.

I got into the diag menus and ran through lamp, coil and switch tests, everything passed with flying colors.

So all that is left is figuring out how to get sound and the lower part of the display going, most excellent.
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#79 6 days ago

We have sound!

Could a twisted display cable messed things up that much?!?!

I'm thinking not as the sound board was in while the display board was just unplugged at one time. Not really sure what is different today and why test rom no longer works.

Only electrical to address now is the lower displays and when the machine is started it states "bad switch" but all switches seem to pass check. Very curious. The lower display is suppose to tell you matrix numbers so after the display is 100% we will track that down.

#80 6 days ago

Congrats! I have a Time Machine myself, it is a very addicting game with a very nice lighshow and good sound. It will never leave my collection.

Now the 2 Nummerical displays. The message "bad switches" is followed up by mentioning the faulty ones at the 2 lower displays or a simple "none", but as the displays are not working at all you won't see this .

The display glasses themselves can be dead. You can check the B I/O port (pins 10-17) for activity with a logic probe from the display PIA at 11B. They control the segments from the nummerical displays. The digit strobing (PIA 11B I/O port A and 74LS154) works as that controls the strobing for both the alpha- and nummerical displays. The alpha's are up and running so there won't be a problem there.

About the testrom….you inserted that one in socket 5C? It should be mentioned the testrom is a benchtest thing and not meant to use in game. You can do it but you should disconnect the connectors for the coils to avoid damage. The low frequency pulsing of the outputs can cause damage.

As you seemed to have intermittent problems in the beginning -after reinserting the gameroms the MPU started suddenly- i think it is a good idea to replace the IC sockets from the gameroms, SRAM and 6802/8 CPU.

#81 6 days ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Congrats! I have a Time Machine myself, it is a very addicting game with a very nice lighshow and good sound. It will never leave my collection.
Now the 2 Nummerical displays. The message "bad switches" is followed up by mentioning the faulty ones at the 2 lower displays or a simple "none", but as the displays are not working at all you won't see this .
The display glasses themselves can be dead. You can check the B I/O port (pins 10-17) for activity with a logic probe from the display PIA at 11B. They control the segments from the nummerical displays. The digit strobing (PIA 11B I/O port A and 74LS154) works as that controls the strobing for both the alpha- and nummerical displays. The alpha's are up and running so there won't be a problem there.

1) There maybe actually a switch a switch issue, I have to investigate further.

I went into the test menu and tested all listed in the matrix except for the slam tilt which I could not find and center coin which it doesn't have. That being said for some reason the red and yellow target in the center will not work time to time. Contacts are clean and adjusted and the blue one works fine. If I fiddle around with the connector under the playfield they will start working again but it is erratic. I think I'll repin this connector and look for any poor solder joints in this area.

EDIT: I took one last look before heading in for the night, wiggling the connector at CN10 on the MPU makes the 2 switches come and go. Good thing I purchased extra pins and connectors! I see repinning in the near future to fix these 2 switches.

2) I should have another display tomorrow for testing so I'll wait before pulling out the logic probe.

Quoted from MarAlb:

About the testrom….you inserted that one in socket 5C?

Yes. I did nothing different yesterday or today, very puzzling. Same bin file, location, chip size. Very odd.

Quoted from MarAlb:

It should be mentioned the testrom is a benchtest thing and not meant to use in game. You can do it but you should disconnect the connectors for the coils to avoid damage. The low frequency pulsing of the outputs can cause damage.

Yes I figured this out quick the other day with the chimes and coils all firing. I unplugged everything but the power so I could test, today I did the same.

Quoted from MarAlb:

As you seemed to have intermittent problems in the beginning -after reinserting the gameroms the MPU started suddenly- i think it is a good idea to replace the IC sockets from the gameroms, SRAM and 6802/8 CPU.

Agreed.

The game is very fun and has a good lightshow! The music and call outs very amusing as well.

As soon as the display is sorted out it will be time to sand down the cabinet, paint and apply decals.

#82 6 days ago

Congrats man. Good to see it up and running. You’ll get the last few issues worked out. I told you it was a fun game! Audio and robot callouts are great on this pin.

#83 6 days ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Congrats! I have a Time Machine myself, it is a very addicting game with a very nice lighshow and good sound. It will never leave my collection.
Now the 2 Nummerical displays. The message "bad switches" is followed up by mentioning the faulty ones at the 2 lower displays or a simple "none", but as the displays are not working at all you won't see this .
The display glasses themselves can be dead. You can check the B I/O port (pins 10-17) for activity with a logic probe from the display PIA at 11B. They control the segments from the nummerical displays. The digit strobing (PIA 11B I/O port A and 74LS154) works as that controls the strobing for both the alpha- and nummerical displays. The alpha's are up and running so there won't be a problem there.
About the testrom….you inserted that one in socket 5C? It should be mentioned the testrom is a benchtest thing and not meant to use in game. You can do it but you should disconnect the connectors for the coils to avoid damage. The low frequency pulsing of the outputs can cause damage.
As you seemed to have intermittent problems in the beginning -after reinserting the gameroms the MPU started suddenly- i think it is a good idea to replace the IC sockets from the gameroms, SRAM and 6802/8 CPU.

Question:

Scrambled displays - from my reckoning, player 1 and player 2 score - is that also related to PIA 11B and the associated 74LS154? I will show a video if it helps.

#84 6 days ago

And apologies gdonovan for hijacking your post.

#85 6 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

And apologies gdonovan for hijacking your post.

No worries!

#86 6 days ago

You make fixing it look so easy on here. Having it working is a great thing. Pins and headers on De games seem to be a major problem. Every De game i have worked on so far had pin and header issues. So other then leds you leaving the game stock or you have mods in mind?

#87 6 days ago
Quoted from cp1610:

You make fixing it look so easy on here. Having it working is a great thing. Pins and headers on De games seem to be a major problem. Every De game i have worked on so far had pin and header issues. So other then leds you leaving the game stock or you have mods in mind?

Not me! I'm a newbie to solid state with basic electronics skills, I'm lost at this level of diagnostics for the moment till I build my skill set up. I'm stubborn as hell though when presented with a problem and will pick at it from all angles till I find a solution. This has been driving me crazy for the past week, I have read every Data East related thread and Pinwiki and even looked at Williams System 11 ones too. Gone through manuals for related games (Secret Service, Torpedo Ally and Playboy 35th) and even printed them out and have them in a binder for reference.

Aside from the LED's no mods come to mind and any I do will be towards reliable operation, maybe a few tasteful colored LED here and there. I should replace the display with LED but like the look of the original plasma.

Off on a road trip! I'll post pics if all goes to plan and yes this is TM related.

#88 5 days ago

Here it comes..

20190519_123954_resized (resized).jpg
#89 5 days ago

You have no idea how hard it was keeping my mouth shut the last few days =)

Sometimes I think I've gone to far and then I smother the thought, with a pillow.

Look what followed me home this morning! An insanely clean Time Machine. It has Rottendog MPU and X-pin power board, full LED and upgraded speakers. I have already swapped the displays back and forth and it looks like there is nothing wrong now with the first MPU, problem is clearly the display and the problem was present in the new machine with old display and the new display (blue pcb) worked perfect in the old machine.

I'm beat, running on four hours of sleep after a 3 state sprint to get there and back before rainstorms closed in.

20190519_140540_resized (resized).jpg20190519_140932_resized (resized).jpg20190519_141549_resized (resized).jpg20190519_150356_resized (resized).jpg20190519_151710_resized (resized).jpg

#90 5 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

You have no idea how hard it was keeping my mouth shut the last few days =)
Sometimes I think I've gone to far and then I smother the thought, with a pillow.
Look what followed me home this morning! An insanely clean Time Machine. It has Rottendog MPU and X-pin power board, full LED and upgraded speakers. I have already swapped the displays back and forth and it looks like there is nothing wrong now with the first MPU, problem is clearly the display and the problem was present in the new machine with old display and the new display (blue pcb) worked perfect in the old machine.
I'm beat, running on four hours of sleep after a 3 state sprint to get there and back before rainstorms closed in.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

WOW!!!! That second machine is pristine! Great to have one to yest with. Congrats!

Chris

#91 5 days ago

O i know it's not easy but you are getting progress and now you have two time machines. That one looks really nice. By that showing up now your new challenge is to make the other just as nice. Not that you where not going to anyway.

#92 5 days ago

Super cool - those things don't happen up here in the frozen tundra Good get!

#93 5 days ago
Quoted from cp1610:

O i know it's not easy but you are getting progress and now you have two time machines. That one looks really nice. By that showing up now your new challenge is to make the other just as nice. Not that you where not going to anyway.

That is a high bar; the one that came home is in insanely nice condition. Prior owner even polished all the trim to a high shine, factory legs are mint and the cab is pristine aside from one scratch. It spent a long time in his collection and shows years of lavish attention.

I'll do my best!

#94 4 days ago

Does anyone know what the pin pitch of those ribbon cables are - 1.27mm or 2.54mm?

#95 4 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

Does anyone know what the pin pitch of those ribbon cables are - 1.27mm or 2.54mm?

The pitch is 2.54mm

Quoted from pb456:

Scrambled displays - from my reckoning, player 1 and player 2 score - is that also related to PIA 11B and the associated 74LS154? I will show a video if it helps.

If the nummerical displays are working fine, then no. PIA 11B controls the digit strobing for both the nummerical and alphanummerical displays. It controls the segments for the nummerical displays too. PIA 9B controls the segments for the alphanummerical displays.

Quoted from gdonovan:

Not really sure what is different today and why test rom no longer works.

You are using the testrom in-game. Probably you had the coindoor closed this time; then the memory protect feature kicks in. The testrom will no longer pass the memory test as it is unable to write a certain part.

#96 4 days ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

You are using the testrom in-game. Probably you had the coindoor closed this time; then the memory protect feature kicks in. The testrom will no longer pass the memory test as it is unable to write a certain part.

Possible for sure but I think everything was unplugged for testing but the power. For my own curiosity I'll retest with door open/closed under the same conditions.

#97 4 days ago

New LED display is on order along with battery eliminator.

After much thought I'm going to continue restoring the unit, lets see if I can make it as nice as the second one.

#98 3 days ago

FYI- I brought my original manual to work today, I'll run it through our color scanner at work so TM owners without a manual can have a full color and size scan of it. I ran it through this morning and forgot to hit the 2 sided button! DOH!

EDIT: Manual and schematics scanned in, double sided this time! 9.6mb

Attached is just a screenshot, PDF much better.

TM_wiring_example (resized).png

#99 3 days ago

Time Machine is the last pin I'm really looking for in my collection. Great work so far!

#100 3 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

FYI- I brought my original manual to work today, I'll run it through our color scanner at work so TM owners without a manual can have a full color and size scan of it. I ran it through this morning and forgot to hit the 2 sided button! DOH!
EDIT: Manual and schematics scanned in, double sided this time! 9.6mb
Attached is just a screenshot, PDF much better.
[quoted image]

Do send me the scans if you're able - much appreciated!

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