(Topic ID: 241661)

Time Machine resurrection project (IT LIVES!)


By gdonovan

26 days ago



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  • 104 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 hours ago by gdonovan
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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There are 104 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
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#1 26 days ago

Hat tip to BeaglePuss who passed this deal my way!

I was looking for a empty cabinet for a possible p-roc home brew project when this popped up on CL with one crappy picture. No backglass, covered in dirt with the bad side of the cabinet towards the camera, you could not even tell if it had a playfield or not. It looked like an excellent candidate for a re-theme or bonfire, take your pick.

Someone had posted the link on the board and Matt mention they were doing the pickup and I mentioned I was looking and a week or two later Matt drops me a note he could not make the pickup and passed the deal on to me. Last night my wife and I picked up the machine in a thunderstorm on the outskirts of a cornfield (I kid you not) and this morning I was finally able to look close as to what the hell I had dragged home.

Frankly it was a pleasant surprise.

Cabinet is solid if one side the paint is almost gone, backglass gone, power board gone, shooter rod missing all the parts for some reason, apron gone, transformer unplugged. Everything else looks like it is there and the playfield looks excellent! I'm going to take a stab at getting it operating again.

An apron that fits looks to be not a problem, several DE units from various titles on Ebay or I can find one at Allentown next weekend, back glass repo's are available. Power board is common DE/Williams part available from Rottendog or used perhaps. First order of business while waiting for a power supply board to come in or pickup at Allentown is to check out the transformer and ohm out the coils for shorts/opens and do a visual on the circuit boards that are there for any obvious damage and clean up connections. The displays maybe ok as it looks like one just got unglued.

This is my first Data East machine so very open to any suggestions and feedback!

Gary

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#2 26 days ago

My man! I’m glad it worked out.

I had a work issue pop up, and knew I couldn’t make it. Given that the game was being offered for free, I didn’t want the owner to feel strung along.

I remembered that you posted in the thread looking to possibly do a retheme, and hit you up. I’m glad the game ended up with someone that’s willing to put in the work.

Congrats on the pickup. Following the thread to keep up with the refurb.

#3 26 days ago

I have a time machine apron, i'll grab you some pics.

#4 26 days ago
Quoted from lordloss:

I have a time machine apron, i'll grab you some pics.

Thank You!

It looks like the Williams power supply will interchange but does anyone know if the interchange works one direction but not the other?

#5 26 days ago
Quoted from BeaglePuss:

Congrats on the pickup. Following the thread to keep up with the refurb.

Gameplay video looks great, the theme and callouts good and the fact it has a chime box tickles my EM funny bones. I'm very, very curious to see what happens when I get a 5v board and power it up.

#6 26 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Thank You!
It looks like the Williams power supply will interchange but does anyone know if the interchange works one direction but not the other?

Works both ways.

#7 26 days ago

I have a display (partially working) I will check if the ones you need are working if you are interested..otherwise I'd say save yourself some trouble and just get an LED replacement.

#8 26 days ago

Sake of fairness show you the other side of the cabinet, which is pretty ugly but solid.

A close look over turned up two crispy harness connectors and a left lane save coil that looks like it was locked on for some time. Someone cut the wire to the coil but I think the horse was long out of the barn when that was done. Looking at the PPB board with one of the burned connectors there is a transistor at location Q4 that looked unhappy and sure enough my meter tells me it has checked out of the building.

So far the damage looks like 2 connectors, a coil, a 5v power board and a transistor. I'm going to have to go over the wiring diagram and trace out all the pins that are burned to be safe and check everything on those circuits out. All the fuses tested good. Close inspection of the sound and CPU board show.. nothing obvious. Nothing burnt or out of place. Battery holder has some minor corrosion on it but looks like someone pulled the batteries out before board damage could occur.

Oh, and I'm planning on changing out the bridge rectifiers and the large cap just because. Damn things fail all the time in my experience. Cheap insurance.

So where is a good vendor to obtain connectors and pins? I assume they are standard as they look like others I have seen. PBResource carry them?

Gary
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#9 26 days ago

That's odd....the time machine I'm trying to resurrect also had a toasty kick back coil. It melted the shaft inside the coil itself. My assembly is a total loss. Wonder what causes these to lock on.

#10 26 days ago
Quoted from GLSP3022:

That's odd....the time machine I'm trying to resurrect also had a toasty kick back coil. It melted the shaft inside the coil itself. My assembly is a total loss. Wonder what causes these to lock on.

I noted mine was stuck, have not disassembled it yet to see if I can get the plunger out. Have a press and power tools out in the shop, its coming apart one way or another.

#11 26 days ago

Great work you're doing there! I had a TM and we had a lot of fun with the callouts and chimes. Kids loved it.

Quoted from gdonovan:

So where is a good vendor to obtain connectors and pins? I assume they are standard as they look like others I have seen. PBResource carry them?

Great Plains Electronics, hands down, no question: https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/categories.asp?cat=35

#12 26 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Great work you're doing there! I had a TM and we had a lot of fun with the callouts and chimes. Kids loved it.

Great Plains Electronics, hands down, no question: https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/categories.asp?cat=35

Pardon my ignorance, what should I be ordering? Or should I just wait as Allentown is next week?

#14 26 days ago
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#15 26 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Pardon my ignorance, what should I be ordering? Or should I just wait as Allentown is next week?

To replace the plugs you need a few parts:

1. Plug - choose the right plug to fit the one you are replacing (https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=81, scroll down starting with "Connector, 0.156" Plug, 2 Pin") and choose as many pins as you need. Get a few of each, just in case. I'd probably get these https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=08-52-0125&cat=81 and https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=08-52-0072&cat=81

2. Crimp Contact - I don't know why you'd choose one over the other (which material), but you should match your wire size. I'd get a bunch for each wire size just in case, they are cheap. (https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=81 starting at the top)

3. Crimper - You'll need a wire crimper, I have a special one for crimp contacts but as long as you have something like this (https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CT-4071-1R) you'll be set.

4. Keying plug - They are out of stock but it's a good idea to key them if possible (https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=15-04-0219)

If you've never done it before get a bunch of extra crimp contacts.

If you need to replace the header on the board then you'll have to desolder and put on a new header:

5. Headers - https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=26-48-1245 you can cut them to suit your needs

There are probably a ton of youtube tutorials out there as this isn't pinball specific. Biggest keys are that you crimp properly (half on the bare wire, half on the insulation), insert the crimp contacts into the plug the right way (easy to see once you do it) and match wire for wire (I do one wire at a time).

#16 26 days ago

Just a note for DE in general, the GI circuit has a tendency to literally catch fire. Happened in 2 DE projects I picked up and even in a extremely nice, HUO game a friend of mine picked up.
LEDs is probably the only way to save them aside from swapping to a new power supply.

I wish I had more advice but I’m still tracing out all the issues caused by the burnt connectors in my games.

#17 25 days ago

Here’s my Time Machine. That era were certainly carved from stone. Solid pins. Definitely got the catchiest tunes of any pin. You’ll be humming them for ages!

#18 25 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Just a note for DE in general, the GI circuit has a tendency to literally catch fire. Happened in 2 DE projects I picked up and even in a extremely nice, HUO game a friend of mine picked up.
LEDs is probably the only way to save them aside from swapping to a new power supply.
I wish I had more advice but I’m still tracing out all the issues caused by the burnt connectors in my games.

So far that looks like the case here too, the burned connectors are GI at least on the PPB.

Went over the PPB tonight after work (sucks being manager on duty for the day) with the meter checking everything out and removed the fried Q4 transistor. Not bad, no burned traces but clearly the GI was pulling some juice judging by the discoloration. Q4 controls the "laser kicker" coil 23-800 which is crispy fried.

Took a 9v battery and powered up the GI lamps one string at a time, everything works and no shorts at least. I'm going to replace them all with LED before I even think of hitting the power switch for the first time.

Ordered the transistor, 3 bridge rectifiers, the honking large cap and the smaller one on the PPB from Mouser.

Anyone ever use https://www.thepinballwizard.net ? Prices seem fair for the power board and some other odds and ends I need.

Edit: Did a board search, seems a vendor in good standing, take my money!

#19 25 days ago

Great Plains is closed for vacation! ha!

Order to pinballwizard is in- power supply, elastics, "laser kick" coil and parts for laser kick. The plunger came apart no problem but is missing the nylon tip so just ordered the whole kit.

#20 25 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Great Plains is closed for vacation! ha!
Order to pinballwizard is in- power supply, elastics, "laser kick" coil and parts for laser kick. The plunger came apart no problem but is missing the nylon tip so just ordered the whole kit.

DOH! PinballLife.com has most of that stuff, probably everything you need: https://www.pinballlife.com/molex-crimp-stuff-connectors-and-parts.html

.156" is what you need to look for... they even have the "key" filler piece: https://www.pinballlife.com/156-polarizing-key-for-molex-crimp-stuff-housings.html

#21 24 days ago

I'm jealous your time machine appears to be nicer then mine to start minus the back glass. You have some boards to start something i had to find for mine. Good news from pics game appears to complete short of a apron. Don't see hacked up wires in head. I wish you luck on a good game thats not very common. One tip i will pass on check all clamping diodes everywhere this will yield some bad ones saving a board repair more then once something i learned the hard way on my checkpoint. Also found plug at transformer on de games seem to heat up also so it may need a re-pin which i did to turtles.
Don't skimp on power supply gut it or get a rebuild form someone good.
As for me i replaced everything but heat sinks>some may call it overkill but its over 30 years old and they don't just catch on fire for no reason.

#22 24 days ago
Quoted from cp1610:

I'm jealous your time machine appears to be nicer then mine to start minus the back glass.

It pains me it will not have the original mirrored backglass, but at least there is a reproduction available which beats nothing at all.

Quoted from cp1610:

You have some boards to start something i had to find for mine. Good news from pics game appears to complete short of a apron.

Apron is on the way shortly thanks to lordloss !

Quoted from cp1610:

One tip i will pass on check all clamping diodes everywhere this will yield some bad ones saving a board repair more then once something i learned the hard way on my checkpoint. Also found plug at transformer on de games seem to heat up also so it may need a re-pin which i did to turtles.

Thanks for the tip on the clamping diodes, I'll just simply replace all of them on the coils and play it safe. The plugs from the transformer are in very good condition.

Quoted from cp1610:

Don't skimp on power supply gut it or get a rebuild form someone good.

That was the one board that was missing, I ordered a new Rottendog unit from pinballwizard.net.

If I had to guess looking at the machine the "lazer kicker" failed first which took out the transistor on the PPB. I'm assuming the game was still working at this point as someone went to the trouble to cut the wire to that coil. Once the GI wiring went up it took out the power board which brought everything to a standstill.

Speculation of course, the real fun starts when everything that is broken, suspect or missing is replaced and the power is turned on.

#23 24 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

DOH! PinballLife.com has most of that stuff, probably everything you need: https://www.pinballlife.com/molex-crimp-stuff-connectors-and-parts.html
.156" is what you need to look for... they even have the "key" filler piece: https://www.pinballlife.com/156-polarizing-key-for-molex-crimp-stuff-housings.html

Thank you- I'm going to be at Allentown on Friday/Saturday so going to hold off on ordering them as there is a chance a vendor will be there. If not I'll place an order with them when we return. No real hurry and I have plenty of other things on my plate this week between work and getting ducks in a row for the show.

#24 24 days ago

Great pick up Gary, and glad the game will be saved.

#25 24 days ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

Great pick up Gary, and glad the game will be saved.

I'm all in at this point! I would have order a backglass if not for the fact I'm going to Allentown this weekend =)

Another Pinsider pointed out a place in the UK has a decal package for Time Machine, it will be ordered next week! Fire up the paint gun!

#26 21 days ago

Look at all the lovely stuff that came in today darn it!

I'd be lying if I said it would wait till after Allentown. As soon as the car was packed I was removing the cap and bridge and soldering the new parts in. The PPB is done! Just need .156 connectors and pins which I hope to pickup at the show.

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#27 18 days ago

I have to ask as this seems like a recent post - does anyone have good schematics for the PSU board? Everything I've found online is illegible. Hope to have my TM up and running too, this looks to be a great game.

#28 17 days ago
Quoted from lordloss:

I have a time machine apron, i'll grab you some pics.

Another puzzle piece arrives, you da man!

More parts on the way from Pinball Resource, I should have what I need to power this up by Wednesday or Thursday.

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#29 17 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

I have to ask as this seems like a recent post - does anyone have good schematics for the PSU board? Everything I've found online is illegible. Hope to have my TM up and running too, this looks to be a great game.

I only have whats on the web too.

#30 17 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I only have whats on the web too.

Thanks, I'll keep looking.

#31 16 days ago

Anyone know a vendor with Data East ramp decals? So far I have come up empty handed.

#32 16 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Anyone know a vendor with Data East ramp decals? So far I have come up empty handed.

I sent a contact of mine an email asking her if she had another set.

#33 16 days ago
Quoted from lordloss:

I sent a contact of mine an email asking her if she had another set.

If Lord can’t come up with them, did you try Pin Rescue Australia?

#34 16 days ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

If Lord can’t come up with them, did you try Pin Rescue Australia?

I looked at their site, nothing listed though.

#35 16 days ago

Bay Area Amusements had them at one time, they confirm none in stock.

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#36 15 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I looked at their site, nothing listed though.

Pin Rescue states they don't make them. Mine are "puckered up" in the middle, maybe some light heat will get them to shrink flat?

My package came in yesterday, no connectors though =(

Steve said they would get them right out, honest whoops. I amused myself by trouble shooting and repairing the playfield bonus lights on Spring Break (someone did a really bad soldering job on the resistor board) and tracking down why one of the drop targets on Hot Shots wasn't registering (broken solder connection on back of switch) tonight we will shuffle pins around and get Hot Shots in the lineup now its 100%.

#37 14 days ago

I'm dying here; hope there is a package when I get home and see if this thing fires up. I may even bail out of work early!

Have to change out the connectors and pins, install the two boards, change out the 2 bridge rectifiers and the single large cap.

/Drums fingers on desk while watching clock.. patience.. patience.. going to be a long day.

#38 14 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I'm dying here; hope there is a package when I get home and see if this thing fires up. I may even bail out of work early!
Have to change out the connectors and pins, install the two boards, change out the 2 bridge rectifiers and the single large cap.
/Drums fingers on desk while watching clock.. patience.. patience.. going to be a long day.

I’m with you. Hate that feeling. Whether it’s a game I just picked up still sitting wrapped at home, or a box of parts being delivered to my office. I’ve cut out of work early many times.

#39 14 days ago

Well the connectors did not arrive today which is a bit of a bummer but it allowed me to assemble what I had to assemble in a more leisurely manner.

Installed the repaired PPB and new 5V Rottendog boards.
Swapped out the 2 bridge rectifiers and large cap in the back box, checked all fuses for proper size and function.
Fixed and reassembled the ball plunger.
Installed the lazer save coil and kit, had to do some digging for parts as it had the wrong sleeve.
Reassembled the backglass inner board after cleaning and installed LED's
Installed some GI LED's on the playfield.
Cleaned and did some repair to the kicker assembly.

Hopefully they are in tomorrow and magic happens.

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#40 14 days ago

I would like those stickers also. I don't own the tools or equipment to roll my own. Glad to see you making progress Something i am not. have more games in less need of attention hoping by doing the quote easy ones 1st the cage match that it is will go quicker and easier when i do get to it.

#41 13 days ago
Quoted from cp1610:

I would like those stickers also. I don't own the tools or equipment to roll my own. Glad to see you making progress Something i am not. have more games in less need of attention hoping by doing the quote easy ones 1st the cage match that it is will go quicker and easier when i do get to it.

The waiting is killing me, took all my will power to not plug in those 2 damaged connectors last night and flip the switch.. they are just GI right?... hmmm.

Patience.

#42 13 days ago

Well good news and bad news..

After cutting, crimping & soldering 16 wires (yes they were soldered too, I'm not messing about) my son his the switch and..

The good news is it powered up, the GI lights come on and it states "TIME MACHINE"

The bad news is that is all you get.

LED's on the CPU board indicate that it is getting 5V and the PIA light is on. The manual states one of the 6821P IC is not happy with life and has failed. Visual shows nothing visible and there is six of the damn things. I'm leaning towards it being one of the four display related ones as the pin actually does have sound output (it says TIME MACHINE on boot) and the main display is dead as a doornail. The chips seem dirt cheap as you can get 5 off Ebay for $15 shipped.

As far as the CPU goes I think a good plan is to socket the four locations and pop 4 new chips in and see what happens. Hi voltage to the display board is good (100VDC +/-) so the Rottendog board is working though it has a ferocious hum in the speakers which might be related to the power supply, they are notorious for it to some degree. I'll address that after everything else is up to speed.

I'm open to suggestions if you can think of a better plan.
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#43 13 days ago

Have fun with the socketing! I hope you have a nice hakko desoldering gun!

#44 13 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Have fun with the socketing! I hope you have a nice hakko desoldering gun!

Nope.

Chips are so cheap no need to save them. Just cut the legs off and desolder one at a time.

#45 13 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Nope.
Chips are so cheap no need to save them. Just cut the legs off and desolder one at a time.

It was more a concern of any through hole connectors, don't know if those have any. I wanted to do NVRAM but don't have a desoldering gun and I hate doing it manually. The sucker pumps only work so well and don't get me started on braid.

#46 13 days ago

Thumbing through Pinwiki it states might not be a 6821P at all! It advises to get some Williams test roms and install them. Only issue I can see with that is I have no display output which would be a touch problematic getting results I think.

#47 12 days ago

Well after sleeping on it my best course of action is to replace the four display related 6821P.

With no display output, installing Williams test ROMS is pointless as there is no display. The only way to properly test PIA chips is with a PIA tester which I don't have nor do I have a way to reliably remove the PIA chips without damaging them so even if I had the tester a moot point.

For the money and time saved, cutting the legs off and de-soldering PIA chips one by one is quick and easy and the chips are literately 2 bucks a pop.

Drop in four sockets, pop in the 4 new 6821P chips and see what happens.

Not a question of money, I could just order a new Rottendog board for $300 but would hate to see a stock MPU in good condition just go to waste. Lot of them out there with acid damage and this one looks very nice in that area.

I have some PC power supplies, I think I'll set one up and make a bench test fixture for board repairs. I have a feeling I'll be doing this again in the future with different pins.. best gear up now.

#48 12 days ago

Looking close at the board chip population I find that I made an error; There is really only two 6821 PIA that are related to display output, the rest are lamp, switch and sound related. Sorry for any confusion.

#49 12 days ago

Before chopping the PIA's off, check some basic signals. Your CPU board isn't booting. The soundboard does but is a solitary board.

Is there a clock signal to the 6802/6808 CPU? Is the /reset signal active -> pin 40 at the 680x? Are the game roms okay? Is there 5V at pin 28 of the RAM? Change the 680x CPU, especially if it is an AMI branded one!

Are all of these okay, use a testrom. Leon coded one in the past which is easy to use. I coded one which provides more diagnostics but might be a bit more compicated to use (PM me if you would like to have it). I wouldn't just shotgun the PIA's and replace them by questionable Chinese ones.

#50 12 days ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Before chopping the PIA's off, check some basic signals. Your CPU board isn't booting. The soundboard does but is a solitary board.

Ok- Just so were clear the manual indicates it is booting but is stopping at the PIA test and going no further.

Quoted from MarAlb:

Is there a clock signal to the 6802/6808 CPU? Is the /reset signal active -> pin 40 at the 680x?

I'll assume a logic probe is required which is on order.

Quoted from MarAlb:

Are the game roms okay?

No idea. Either I need a board that boots up with good PIA so it can get to that part of the self-test or I need the checksum for the rom image to verify. Or a copy of the rom and I would just burn a fresh chip. I just noted a site that is hosting some rom files, most excellent. I'll check that out shortly.

Quoted from MarAlb:

Is there 5V at pin 28 of the RAM?

I will look into it.

Quoted from MarAlb:

Change the 680x CPU, especially if it is an AMI branded one!

Just looked it is indeed an AMI unit. Common failure point?

If the CPU was bad, would you even get the self test 5v/PIA lamps coming on?

Are all of these okay, use a testrom. Leon coded one in the past which is easy to use. I coded one which provides more diagnostics but might be a bit more compicated to use (PM me if you would like to have it). I wouldn't just shotgun the PIA's and replace them by questionable Chinese ones.

If the displays are offline is the test rom any use?

Thank you very much for some areas to explore, the factory manual is somewhat limited as is my diagnostic skills in this area but willing to learn.

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