This is an amazing thread Baiter - I really appreciate all the work you've put into it.

Since I'm days behind on this, below is a brain dump of my thoughts:

I totally get the pool analogy of playing a series of games, but there is one unfortunate difference...in pool, games move faster when you're good. In pinball it's the opposite. Having an A play even 3 consecutive games against a lower tier player could be brutal for both involved. If the A player is playing well, it's going to be even more demoralizing than just losing once.

I do like the idea of having to plunge balls.

Handicapping does mess with the concept of WPPR rankings, but maybe there is a hybrid where your handicapped performance is what "wins the league", but your non-handicapped performance is what gets submitted to the IFPA? I tried something similar to that during the last two seasons of my league...however you were paired with a teammate (based on % of average score) against opponents whose % of average score combined to be similar to yours. The only difference was that my league was still ranking players based on individual performance, and the handicapped performance was for "extra benefits" (a smaller bit of money, trophies, and honors in finals matches).

The reason I moved away from that format this season is because of the new WPPR rules regarding indirect competition (and that's how I was doing the overall rankings).

I'm generally much more willing to attempt handicapping in league play, rather than tournaments. Not sure why. I think it's more clear to me that tournaments should be won by the people who play the best, while leagues are more social.

I've played in a bowling league which was handicapped. I'm not one of those put-fancy-spin-on-the-ball kind of players, and I probably would not have played in a league that was not handicapped. That said, I gladly played in pinball tournaments that were not handicapped right from the beginning. For the entire first year, it was pretty clear in my mind that I was just donating money to the better players. Thankfully, it was only $5 at a time.

As someone who runs tournaments, leagues, and pinball machines on location, I can tell you that the biggest excuse I get from people is "I'm not good enough". With league, I try to answer: you'll be playing against the people closest to you in ability. I think this helps, but I'd love an even more compelling sales pitch.

And I do like the ladder system, although the feedback from the people at the bottom of the ladder in my first league was that they did not improve much...and wished they had occasionally been playing with better players. (Which is why I implemented the Team Win concept for Season 2...so you'd be playing with all different abilities and have someone to talk and strategize with.)

One thing I can say for certain is that players who are going to be most drawn in by handicapping are the least likely to see this thread.

All these rules are starting to sink in.

That's exactly what IFPA Rating is: http://www.ifpapinball.com/menu/ranking-info#rating

You'd just need a way to translate that into a handicap.

Starting to sound not so fun. I think if weaker players want to get better, they can watch tutorials and such to get strategies. Play tournaments to be matched up with better players to see skills in action. Ask questions, AFTER matches, to fill in the gaps in their "education".
I'm just not sure a handicap system can be successfully applied in pinball, it is difficult at best. After losing a tourney or several matches because of being handicapped, I'm pretty sure I would stop playing in those events.

Are most/all pool leagues handicapped? I assume the best players continue to play, despite the handicap.

I enjoy playing the top of the league, and you have to if you want to win. Otherwise I don't mind playing low skill/rank players at all, and I don't ever really get bored too much playing. More likely they get bored while playing me, especially on newer games. Maybe the handicap should just be to play EM games, lol.

I would most like a handicap like this, where the games are still unchanged, but I would have to win an extra game or two.
But again, it depends on what type of machines we would play too, does the underdog get to choose too?

I am really not in favor of a handicap system for "serious" tourneys. There is already a significant element of chance in Pinball, which allows surprise victories - at least for best of 1 or 3 games direct elimination format - you may argue this never happens for best of 5 or more.

But this would make sense for a side tourney. I have done things like that. It may help keep players interested once they are kicked out of the main tourney. Format I tried: side tourney is unlimited attempts (within a given timeframe) on a single pin - best four performers will qualify for the finale.
You give everyone a chance before the main tourney starts.
Then apply a rule "as long as you are still in in the main tourney, you can't try again on the pin(s) selected for the side tourney". The winner of the main tournament will probably have only one attempt on the side game - early losers may have many (although they often gravitate closer to the beers than to the pins !). So basically it gives more tries for those eliminated at an early stage. It increases the chance of getting a top score.

But the idea behind this format was not really to even the chances : more like keeping everyone happy or busy.

That's a great idea!

That's my biggest issue right now. I enjoy playing against all divisions, and do in many situations and everyone has a great time and puppies and rainbows etc. How long does it take to play best out of 3 on modern Sterns? it can take a LONG time, now move that to basically a best of 5 for you to win and that's adding some serious time.

When I first started playing in the 90s it was always this way (and tons of side tournies for cash). Huge brackets, random draws...I gots no problem with that. And that's one of the reasons a 3 strike event is so fun because everything is random.

My focus has been how to make it fun for all with mixed skill levels (tournaments or leagues).

- FACT - Better players usually don't like a lesser player beating them because of a handicap - that's not fair / that's BS.

Most handicap scenarios will bring these feelings in head-to-head play. The effect is diluted/diffused in team scenarios, because the players can recognize their personal chance of winning is increased because the lower skilled players on their team have handicaps. In non-team scenarios, the best players view the handicaps as all negative for them (which technically is correct).

So the ONLY solution that will work (for highly competitive players) is teams with handicapping.

IMO a nice simple solution is to not use handicaps, but just pair people on teams of different skill levels.
For doubles, simply pair the Best with the Worst, and work towards the middle.

Or a more complex solution for 2 or more players per team...
- rate players as A/B/C
- each rating (A,B,C) is associated with a point value: A=3, B=2, C=1
- group players into teams of 2, 3, or 4
- all teams must add up to the same "total" (give or take 1 point)
- if a lower "total" team plays a higher total team, the lower total team gets the slight advantage (game choice or order)

Example for 4 player teams: Total should be 8 +/- 1 -> so 7, 8, or 9

Examples would be
- A-B-B-C = 8
- A-A-C-C = 8
- B-B-B-B = 8
- A-A-B-C = 9
etc.

You may still get some A players complaining that they don't want the lower player on their team. There's nothing you can do for A players that only want to compete against other top players, as far as mixing in lower players and leveling the playfield.

We've struggled with this locally. It's tough to get some people past the "I don't have a chance of winning" mentality...which by the way is a horrible way of approaching anything you do. Lots of people here locally are scared to come out to events for fear that they will embarrass themselves. I am convinced we couldn't get certain lovers of people to participate in an event if we had topless girls handing out free $50 bills at the door. It was hard for me to get past that as someone who tries so hard to promote pinball and run events. We have local ops that basically give the house away to entice people to come out and do something they supposedly love to do anyway and it's never enough for some people. I've come to terms that I am not going to be able to change that, so I now focus on the people who do want to be there and make things the best they can be for those people. As far as the competition aspect, it's a fine line for me personally. I want people to participate in leagues and events, but you need to be realistic, if you are not at least a very good player you don't have a great chance of winning. There are lots of other activities I like to do, but I am not the best at. I wouldn't expect to win in a dedicated league of any of those activities, I would participate in those leagues to have fun and get better. It shouldn't have to be all about winning all the time for everyone. As far as handicapping, if you are only in it to win, then you need to play the best players, practice and get better to do that...and we've seen several local players do exactly that. Lots of local players could have given up a couple of years ago when one of three people basically won every event, but they didn't and now today they are winning and finishing high because of it. Success doesn't always come overnight and we have some great players here locally, so it's going to take work to beat them, there aren't many ways around that. IMHO, I know this isn't what handicapping really is, but it shouldn't be just dumb everything down so someone has a chance to win without working at it. All that said, we've done a couple things for one of our leagues to help with the competitive aspect.

First of all, if you have finished top 4 in league in the past, you can't drop past the second group in any week. So if one of those players has a bad week, they won't go to the bottom group and destroy all the players there. It hurts me since I am one of those 4, but I understand it and I am okay with it. If the only way I could win a league is by playing in the bottom groups and beating up on people, then personally I am fine with not winning.

Second, we had an end of league team tournament where the worst finisher got to pick his partner first, then the second worst and so on. You then played against other teams in a double elimination tournament on random games. I won the league, so was paired with the worst player so I knew I basically had to win on my own if we were going to win. It was challenging knowing going in that I knew I had to kill it and pretty much beat both other players scores myself. It was quite the handicap, and I wouldn't want to play a full league like that, but I have to admit it was fun doing it. It was a great coaching opportunity too for players. Basically 1 on 1 access with a more skilled player. I tried to give insights to my teammate and help him do better in the games and build his confidence.

This is the reason I don't like to start with single elimination format. Typical tourneys I run involve Herb style qualifying first, allowing each players to play 5-10 games in a relatively relax manner (no direct confrontation) followed by a second phase with top 33-50% players. Each player, even really bad, should be allowed a play a significant number of games, especially when the inscription fee is significant. Many of the casual players don't want to spend the whole afternoon (and early evening) playing pinball, so they participate to the qualification round which typically lasts 2-3 hours. They also know the schedule will be more or less respected and appreciate that.