Tz was a flop. Never earned and constantly broke. It CLOSED OUT at drastic discount just to sell the inventory. Listen to topcast in pat's interview. The quote from them watching it being played and people yelling THIS GAME SUCKs will forever live in Pat's heart and mind. Tz was a disaster for Williams.

The BOM for TZ was incredible. Prior to WoZ, TZ was the most expensive game ever made. This cut into Williams bottom line. But pat had so much momentum from Addams, Williams would do anything he said. But they took the perfect balance of code used in Addams, and pushed it up three notches, which completely screwed the game. The average person had no idea how to play it. Earnings were terrible. Opposed to Addams that is still, more than 20 years after its introduction, is still in the 10 top earning pinballs.

that said, TZ was always a favorite among collectors in the home. But that doesn't sell games in 1993.

Don't care for the game at all. A flop from a player's and op's perspective.

Not a flop from Williams perspective. They sold them all to distribs.

they CLOSED THEM OUT. do you understand what that means????
This means williams LOST MONEY on every closed out unit. it was a disaster.
ANY williams game that closed out was awful for Wms.

Cirquis V was another seriously closed out model. But there were others. The trick was to sell the right number, and leave them "wanting". this sold the next title. They did that with games like Medieval and Attack and even Addams. They could have sold more, but as soon as sales stop, and you have inventory (BIG inventory in money and physical size), the games have to be sold at whatever price they will bring, regardless of cost.

This is why Stern does runs of like 250 games. But their production line is different than williams. williams couldn't re-run a title. Stern can.

----
Anyway this is WAY off topic for this thread, my suggestion is we stay on the subject matter at hand...

Please refrain from stating actual facts in Pinside Clay. It pisses off the "real" experts.

Once again folks with massive, extensive, monster experience not only state facts yet without being degrading put DBs (aka, the noobs-a-plenty) into submission. The pretenders are abound in today's pinball, a lovely new generation that has no roots or care in the world for the history of pinball. Its apparently irrelevant or they are irreverent. Noncontributory, they complain fully with continuous dysfunction, all the while trying to espouse a level of authority which has never been documented or earned. Please, stay on topic ADD pinheads.

Once again, new phantom accounts show up on Pinside, created by hipsters trying to be cool and irreverent.

Ahh...yes....YOU typed "They closed them out", so it must be true.

The thread may need to be changed to "Kaptaint Kurk vs. Frankster"

I'm in Vegas right now and spent about 5 hours at PHOF today.

Beth, and the other three volunteers (can't remember their names now, my apologies) were very pleasant and great to talk to. Probably spent about 10 minutes talking to each of them about pinball and how much I appreciate what they do. I've been to the phof about 10 times over the last 5 years, and never had the gumption to speak with any of them because of the "reputation" that has been spread here about them (not a shot at Pinside or anyone here). We're all people, and we can have bad days. I imagine most of the negative comments I've heard have been when a person had worked a long day (for free) and was just tired of dealing with irate people all day.

PHOF is usually the highlight of my trip every time I come to Las Vegas. I plan on going back at least two to theee more times while I'm out here.

I'd say 95% of the machines were up and running, and sure there were some that were not perfect or malfunctioning. I don't even really care. It's 50 cents, and then onto the other 250 in there. The money goes to charity anyways.

Beth, Tim, and crew, keep up the great work; some of us REALLY appreciate what you do.

95% up and running. Depends on one's definition of up and running.
I just got back from there, and personally, I'd advise all players and enthusiasts to AVOID the PHOF completely unless you are ONLY going solely for the newest of new Sterns or the EM's.

I played roughly 40 titles that were SS1978- DMD1998.
39 WERE IN REPREHENSIBLE SHAPE....QBert Qubes played well.
This is not an exaggeration.
Not another single machine worked right, and not just a little bad, these were ALL really, unplayable bad.

Tim Arnold should be ashamed of himself and quit the trade immediately.
As a former operator in the heyday, he has no excuse whatsoever for having a floor full of such garbage.
Pinball is in a resurgence, and op's like this give the hobby a terrible reputation.
He is ripping people off, proceeds going to charity of not.
I am disgusted and will not return, and I implore others to do the same.

I never make waves on Pinside - haven't the time or desire for starting controversy.
But...I've always stuck up for his operation when others say it stinks.
No longer.

Details? Can you give examples of the problems?

A few, yes.

*Sega Star Wars Tril:
Top saucer inoperable, multiball mode inoperable, ramp hits not registering.
*DE Jurassic Park:
Ghost drains, dead ball kicker, more problems I truthfully do not remember.
*DE 88/89 Playboy:
Top saucer inoperable, multiball not functional, ghost drains.
*Safe cracker.
Ball stuck repeatedly when top drop down on left side 3 bank, spinner dead, pops weak.
*Twilight Zone
Skill shot inactive(ball got stuck there also), rocket did not register hitchhiker, spiral electro mags out.
*Hoe Down 1978 Allied leisure
Left and right drop targs literally severed at playfield level, so they never came up. Weak pop, dead pop.
*Bugs Bunny BB91
Just on with no boot up, no display activity or any life signs for that matter, except basic power.
*Dr Who
Game was on, looked good to go. Press the blinking credit button, and nothing booted-- it just stated on the DMD "Out of Order" (I never even knew this was possible).
*South Park
Entire game just sucked, just plain miserable with damage present in toilet stationary target and other places (Kenny).

I really wish I could remember more, but after a short time I was walking away after one or two balls and just went back to Wedgehead row where I could at least salvage the bus ride and waste of the day.
It was really disgusting in there too.
Dirty, broken parts everywhere, stupid notes on video games like - I can't get parts for Donkey Kong and you will be thrown out if you are nasty with the game.
Really - no parts? They only made, what - 150,000 original DK's and God knows how many hack clones.

It was that bad.

Sorry to hear this. Wasn’t Tim looking to sell the PHOF a couple years ago?

Possibly, but a bigger notice matter: He was, about a year ago, supposedly looking for a partner (one with technical experience, no doubt) to ease the burden of the day to day.
Has to be a lot of work, fair enough.
But that's why you give SOME to charity, and keep 75% of the revenue both to pay rent, live on, and very importantly: UP KEEP the games.

It is really a shame to hear this. I have been to the PHOF twice; we had a great time both visits. Sure there were broken machines. What arcade back in the day wasn’t dark and dirty? Just to be able to walk in and see and hear the life of an arcade was nostalgic for me and worth the trip.
I am sure you are accurate with your observation. The man has to be burnt out keeping up with the place day in and out.
Hopefully he can get some assistance and a much deserved break.

I'm going to Vegas in 19 days and my buddy and I plan to visit the PHOF, so hopefully some issues are resolved before then.

Several of these exact same issues with the exact same pins existed back in early November when my Wife and I visited, we were both disappointed and ready to leave after a short period of time.

Out of all the pins I played only a few played without game stopping problems, plungers so weak balls wouldn't launch, flippers that were unable to make ramps, scoop and other switches not registering, drops that were broken, and some just flat took your money. There was literally tape on ramps and plastics on a few machines holding things together.

To top it off the staff there at the time was not at all friendly.

But don't forget to thank the staff for all they do........

Every time I go Tim seems like he's annoyed at someone. I really think they could be proactive in many of those situations by having a staffed front desk. I know that would mean paying a staff member, but it seems like the benefits would outweigh the costs. Even just a simple, "Welcome to the Pinball Hall of Fame. Is this your first time visiting?" If they say "Yes", then give them a few quick dos and don'ts. That in itself might save enough in potential damages to pay for the position. With that said, I always make a stop whenever I'm in Vegas. I say a quick "Thank you!" to Tim, Beth, and any volunteers. I'm super appreciative that they keep so many machines available to the general public. I'll be heading back in 3-weeks.

No. That was a rumor that got started because people can't read.

He just said "some day I may want out" basically. Which is a natural thing for anybody Tim's age to be saying.

You sure?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/12/pinball-machine-hall-of-fame-las-vegas-job-hiring

Sure that's a horrible headline/lead in that is not supported by the story that follows it.

Is his health declining lately?

Not sure if this has been answered yet, but does anyone know “the librarian” s Pinside username?

I am not sure of the business model of the location but we paid for every machine that we played or tried to play and couldn't because of game issues.

It's not like machines are set to free play and you aren't paying a cover charge to play whatever you like. You are paying for every single machine you want to play and in turn they should work.

If they are volunteers and don't enjoy helping out people who are coming in and paying to play the games then maybe don't volunteer. I was never rude to any of the staff but I can't say the same in return.

Yes. I’m sure. Nowhere here does it say he’s selling the pbhof.

I thought of Tim the other day as I was repairing a game on location and some wanker wanted to talk to me about pacman...

I loved Vids quote from before:

Can we just ban Midwesterners from the PHOF already?

What the Hell, were not all a..holes.

Not sure I have seen anyone being an a hole in this thread, just people sharing their experiences.

As someone who's visited the PHOF every year since it opened, I'm sorry to say I have to agree with some of the recent comments.

My last two visits there I found many pins simply not playing as well compared to past years. The '90s Bally/Williams games seemed especially problematic. Demolition Man had so many switch issues and such an insistence of two balls in the playfield at all times that after getting both balls cradled on ball 2, I just drained them and moved on to another pin. There were issues with new Sterns too; the year before I played their KISS Prem/LE that hadn't been there a month yet, the right slingshot was constantly firing (no hands on the machine). The EMs, which I play there a lot as well, were actually performing better both times.

I don't know what the answer is, but something's got to change there. As it stands now, it is not the PHOF I know and love.

It’ll stay like this literally until Tim keels over while trying to fix a Nip-It, falling into the cabinet and the playfield slamming closed, dead.

Then there will be an auction and the vultures will descend en masse to pick the place clean and overpay for beat wedgeheads, and that will be it. No more PHOF.

If he was going to take suggestions, he’s have taken them 40 years ago when the first armchair critic offered his unsolicited opinion. So, all the gum-flapping is just hot air.

I do t understand why he doesn’t hire some techs, but that’s his choice.

You mean Tim himself? Bold move.

I LOL'd

I was there in 2010 and had fun overall, only some games had issues.

The way it sounds now, I no longer have any desire to return.

Wonder where he keeps the rest of his machines, that'd be a fun sight to see.

I go to the PHOF for the ems and maybe the newest Sterns before they start having issues. The 90s Bally/Williams games have the same issues now that they had 5 years ago. I think Tim just doesn’t care about any pins built after 1978.

At the well publicized "Big Hit Shed" on S. Gateway just north of Russel Road in Las Vegas.

I've been in the overflow storage area a few years ago and it would be if it wasn't such a jumbled mess. Machines stacked on top of each other etc.

A few real rarities EM Charlies Angels and other one offs from Atari Roadrunner, 4X4 that whilst setup on legs are not readily playable mainly because there are bits and pieces piled on top of the glass.

Couple of guys did a youtube video of it a while back which gives a good idea of the place if you want to track it down for a look.

Would it be this one?

Tim Arnold's Pinball Collection (pre-PHOF) 1998

^Way too organised. Literally machines were stacked on top of each other 5-7 high when I saw it.

I was there in Jan. Tim's been clearing out the shed selling to some friends and insiders. I was very surprised how much had vanished in 6 months.
Phof is constant circle, a lot like painting the Golden gate bridge. you get to one end of the row, and it starts over maintenance wise. Thankless job.
So you want to own an Arcade with 300 plus machines? Good luck.

I remember the last time I went to PHOF which would have been like my 4th year in a row I believe going. Tim over heard me cuss after losing a ball and lit my shit up for it. Dude was like a magnet to me after that... following me around and pretty much made me feel super un-welcome there. It's not like I was super rude about it or was being a problem to anyone around me. It wasn't even that loud either.. But just to give anyone advice that plans on going there, do not swear. Because even saying Shit under your breath can set that guy off.

Thanks for the idea......

Lol if anyone wanted to piss him off real good or get his attention that would be the way to do it.

Got back this morning from Vegas and we did make it out to the PHOF yesterday, so I figured I would report back for the group. We went on Sunday afternoon and it was pretty crowded. I was happy to see several people helping out by walking around, cleaning games and talking to people. One woman made me smile when she asked if I knew what that knock sound was when I cracked a replay. I played along with her and thought it was nice that she was getting excited for the players about things like that.

As for the game conditions, I had my expectations tempered from the postings here and my previous visit, so I can honestly say I wasn't super disappointed, but that wasn't the case for my friend. He has been to the PHOF before and we used to play pinball all the time in the mid 90's together. He has a Fish Tales and was really excited to check out all the games he used to play. Unfortunately, some of them did not work at all and if they did, there were important features or switches that were broken. Monster Bash was the only one he played that worked as it should. This actually turned him off to the experience so much, that he said he had no interest in coming back and would only go in the future if I really wanted to go. Plus, we only stayed a couple of hours because he lost interest fast because of that. As for everything else, it was nice to see that there were more food and candy options now, plus TWO 7-11's only a block away. Overall, I'd still go back again in the future because it's fun to see so many titles that you don't see very often. Would I like to see more games working as they should? Absolutely. I'm in the same camp as a lot of people in that I think a little investment into the up keep of the games and location, would recoup that investment and then some in the long run. I know we personally cut our visit much shorter than we would have under different circumstances which resulted in less money for the Salvation Army donation and I'm sure we are not the only ones. I honestly don't think anything is going to change though, so when I go to Vegas in the future, I'm just going to try to enjoy it for the reality of what it is and leave it at that. Even if you can't/don't play the games, it's still fun to just walk around and take it all in.

Here's what I remember as far as game specifics that I played...

FunHouse (Worked for a game, then right flipper completely dead) & (Really cheap LED job so playfield super dark)
Who Dunnit (Up post never worked, ball never went to pops)
Time Machine (Worked fine)
White Water (Disaster drop switch didn't register)
Wipeout (Slalom playfield broken)
Comet (200,000 switch broken but I still played 1 game for 45 minutes straight and rolled it. )
Avatar - (Link lock housing completely broken and separated from playfield)
Big Hurt - (Orbit switches broken)
24 - (Worked fine)
Batman 66 (Worked great - smoothest Batman 66 I have ever played)
Gilligan's Island (Flippers too weak to make ramp)
Guns & Roses (Flippers too weak to make ramps)
Star Wars Trilogy (Ball stuck in the EB VUK)
Qberts Quest (Worked fine)
Street Fighter II (Car disabled & Left flipper weak and with the spinning Chun-Li, ball doesn't have enough momentum to make it all the way through. I actually made it once only amazingly, but later couldn't complete the Wizard Mode because I was stuck on Chun-Li)