I like to have my games working 100% and the tilt bob is a part of that. So....whats that thing called and should it show continuity if it were in proper condition?
Found this thread.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/y5f-12v-caps-found-on-bally-machines
Would this be the culprit?
Which one of these will work, if any?
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=5
I can order a few more things from them.
Quoted from FatPanda:I think this may be the problem. Doesn't show continuity. Should it? What is this called and where can I get a new one?
It's a capacitor. It should not show continuity.
Without this capacitor installed the tilt mechanism should still work. It just won't be as sensitive.
If you push and hold the tilt plumb bob against the outer ring and tilt isn't recognised, you've got some other problem (probably connector or wiring).
FYI, this is a replacement capacitor (0.047uF 50V):
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCD-0.047uF-50V
Quoted from FatPanda:Is there a quick test I can do to see if it's still good?
You need a capacitor/ESR meter to test it properly. Having said that when these capacitors fail they typically become resistive/short circuit.
So put your multimeter on high resistance ohms Ω mode and measure across the capacitor out of circuit. Your meter should indicate the capacitor as being open circuit. If you measure constant resistance across the capacitor it's likely internally shorted and bad. Make sure your fingers aren't touching the metal tips of the meter probes otherwise you'll measure resistance through your body and get false readings.
I'm trying to collect parts to put in a order through GPE, but it seems like all the stuff i want, they don't have. I'll test it, but likely replace it or find an alternative.
I'll check the schematics to see where the tilt bob comes into (I'm assuming) the MPU and see if the connection is bad somehow.
The playfield will also have these capacitors on switches that need to be sensed on fast closures. These capacitors (usually the green colored ones Bally used) do fail and go short circuit causing multiple problems with switches.
Quoted from FatPanda:I'll check the schematics to see where the tilt bob comes into (I'm assuming) the MPU and see if the connection is bad somehow.
So the game still isn't tilting when you manually activate the plumb bob tilt? Do you have both tilt wires connected to each part of the tilt mechanism?
What about when you close the tilt switch on the bottom of the playfield? It's usually located near the flipper mechanisms.
When i manually touch the tilt bob to the ring, it does not trigger. The tilt switch nearby does trigger. I cleaned up the tilt bob, ring and hook that the tilt bob is connected to, but the same result (which is nothing). My next steps were to redo all of the solder joints, which is when i pulled the capacitor in the pic above. Haven't gotten further than that though.
Your Paragon will be set up the same and you can use it for reference.
Post a picture of the wiring to the tilt plumb bob if you don't have any luck fixing it.
There should be a wire connected to the ring, and another wire connecting to the upper wire shaft of the plumb bob.
Thanks for the pictures, that helps.
If you look at the end of the tilt roll cage where you have the two red-yellow wires and the white-black wire, Paragon shows there is a diode connected between these wire sets. However your Flash Gordon is missing that diode. Essentially that white black wire going to the plumb bob is not connected to the circuit.
Install a diode with the banded side of the diode on the white-black lug on the cage switch.
Quoted from FatPanda:What diode should i install? I'll have to order...
Get some 1N4007 diodes. They're very common diodes and are also used on solenoid coils.
Quoted from Whysnow:I have literally hundreds of these. Swing by after work and I can give you some.
Awesome! I will take you up on that.
The manual (pg 47 of the IPDB .pdf) calls for 1N4148 diodes on all switches, the 1N4004 are for the coils. Pinball Resource does list the 1N4148:
XO261 DIODE 1N4148 GTB-XO261 $0.50ea
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:The manual (pg 47 of the IPDB .pdf) calls for IN4148 diodes on all switches, the IN4004 are for the coils. Pinball Resource does list the IN4148:
XO261 DIODE 1N4148 GTB-XO261 $0.50ea
Quy, I dont have any of those. I have the standard IN4004.
Anyone know what the difference is?
may not work?
"The 1N4004 is designed as a rectifier diode with a 400volt 1 amp rating.
The 1N4148 is a high speed signal diode rated at 100volt 200ma."
hmm....I'll order a few of the 1N4148. I just sent an order to PBR, so i'll just add those on. Thanks for the offer buddy!
I would think the 1n4004, with the higher rating would be ok though.
also this thread suggests it may be fine?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/difference-between-1n4148-and-1n4004
any experts able to teach us here???
Quoted from FatPanda:I'll order a few of the 1N4148
order 10 extra for me please. Assuming these are needed, it is nice to have spares
Quoted from Whysnow:order 10 extra for me please. Assuming these are needed, it is nice to have spares
Gotcha covered.
Quoted from Whysnow:also this thread suggests it may be fine?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/difference-between-1n4148-and-1n4004
any experts able to teach us here???
There is a note in the Pinwiki: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#The_Importance_of_Diodes_and_Capacitors_on_Switches
"Bally and Stern both state 1N4004s as original, but 1N4148 diodes can be used, and in some cases, were used from the factory."
Bally switched from using 1N4004 on their switches to 1N4148 sometime in '79 or '80
1N4148 are faster switching diodes but rated to much lower voltage. I suspect the change was purely for cost reasons. 1N4148 would have been cheaper at the time.
I prefer to use the 1N4004 / 1N4007 diodes because their leads are thicker and handle playfield vibration better. Plus coils use them too so the one diode type covers both circuits.
You're fine to use any of these diodes mentioned on your switches so if you want to keep all diodes on your Flash Gordon the same, go with the 1N4148.
Quoted from Quench:Bally switched from using 1N4004 on their switches to 1N4148 sometime in '79 or '80
1N4148 are faster switching diodes but rated to much lower voltage. I suspect the change was purely for cost reasons. 1N4148 would have been cheaper at the time.
I prefer to use the 1N4004 / 1N4007 diodes because their leads are thicker and handle playfield vibration better. Plus coils use them too so the one diode type covers both circuits.
You're fine to use any of these diodes mentioned on your switches so if you want to keep all diodes on your Flash Gordon the same, go with the 1N4148.
thanks for the education Safe to assume that the 1N4148 "speed" has no issue with needing to read a quick switch hit of a tilt bob and that "speed" is for much faster Computing situations?
Quoted from Whysnow:Safe to assume that the 1N4148 "speed" has no issue with needing to read a quick switch hit of a tilt bob and that "speed" is for much faster Computing situations?
Yep, you got it
1N4148 has a faster recovery time so can support higher speed circuits.
Originally we used 1n4004 for everything but the 1N4148 was cheaper and better for low current situations like playfield switches. Get yourself a handful of 4004 diodes and you'll be set.
As far as caps go, .05/.047 (same dif) small ceramic caps. They are very cheap so I wouldn't waste my time testing, just replace it if you've already removed it.
Back in the day our unit cost for diodes, resistors, and caps was under a penny.
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