I agree with you and also picked up on the drab hobbit colors, its just to predominant. Look at the walking dead playfield dark theme, but the inserts still have a bright color bordering each insert like the "prison" inserts with the bright blue barb wire.

I don't always agree with you Aurich, but you are always worth reading and make some very compelling points. I personally don't mind the drab colors...inserts will have plenty of color. That "stained glass" picture ends at the end of the second movie. Wanted to see the Smaug slaying and battle...

Good post. Had high hopes for TH. It could look so good between my LOTR and WOZLE.

Biggest problem for me is that it looks like pin by committee. Very uncoordinated and unattractive. Very unlike WOZ, which I have and love - play wise and looks wise. We light WOZ up around Christmas time and just leave it on it looks so good!

Second problem is Smaug. Everyone is so disappointed by it, even the fanboys have redefined success on Smaug. ( confession - I was mostly an annoying fanboy for WOZ, so I understand the mindset)

Haven't cancelled my order yet, but I am close. Might wait around to see what changes, but my goodness how much would have to change! Code alone cannot save this pin for me.

I do hope JJP sells enough of them to be profitable so they continue cranking out some amazing pins. I think they KILLED it on WOZ as their first pin, but I can't imagine this one being as popular as WOZ or popular at all.

JJP made newbie mistakes, explained by the seniors that left (Balcer, Freres, Nordman). Keith was probably made the lead, that would explain the lack of art direction.

TH palette is 50 shades of brown

But one thing is for sure, the lead who took over had no experience in this sort of thing. The table feels homegrown and amateur, right down to Matt's bad sculptures.

Has anybody here seen the art of the packaging of the hobbit extended collector editions blurays?

Perhaps I should scan my in to show you how colorfull and beautiful Peter Jacksons Art can be.

ExtendetHobbit.jpg

Great post! Narrative in a game is so important. In the best games the artwork, mechanical toys, display, sound and rules all work together to position the player in the world in which the story takes place and walk them through that world.

Yes, I wonder if this is the real issue... the abrupt and unspoken for disappearance of the original creators of the game...
Aurich, I hear you in many of your opinions, but heck this is the Hobbit... hairy bearded characters in brown clothes/Golumn/swamps/frigid/dark mountains all make for dreary scenery... LOTR has some green and orange colors, but it's still the same dark/green/muckey background..

WOZ is totally different, yellow brick roads/candy land colors/pink good witches/etc...

The Walking Dead is not exactly a cheery theme either ... but the upper pf looks fun!! And I know this isn't a fair pic of Hobbit and is blurry ... but you get the point.

compare_UP.jpg

Gary?

lol. No, Gordon (GOrD).

But seriously, maybe they could totally turn around that upper pf with some dramatic backlighting on the ramps (with cutouts in them), add some colorful plastics over the ramps (signs or small things form the movies), decals on the sides (improve the backboard decal), etc. Maybe even think like modders and add in some EL wire up there or something. That would be cool. It is just too dark/gray.

Didn't realize Balcer left JJP, who designed TH then?

Long post and you do a good job of specifying why you feel like you do about the art, and comparing it other work, but from my perspective it all comes down to just two words that you mention:

Drab and dreary

That's the big question, and I'm theorizing that it might be the last big kahuna that was left standing, Keith.

Balcer left JJP after the playfield design for TH was basically "complete".

Frankly this is why I am not going to the SE edition. I like having Smaug on the cabinet, but have the same on both sides - no thanks. The reason I want to keep the LE cab art is the color! I need the color on the cab to get as much color as possible. This kind of color (greens and blues) is what needs to be translated into the PF.

That hobbit playfield art is very weak to me overall, Im spoiled going to comicon every year and seeing the amazing art, not all comic related, those are real artists, not just photoshop experts, to me first off the playfield ought to be illustrated, DP knew this and succeeded greatly, if it is going to be photoshopped then it should be way better than it currently is. I think this is actually something that could be redone before release, If you've ever watched those commissioned artists work, they are extremely talented and fast, and that's hand drawn and digitally painted, I bet if the licensors were approached with an amazing piece that represented their IP they would not deny it. They really need to commission a real art piece for this.

I'm having the same thoughts and thanks to Aurich for starting a thread that I hope stays civil and concentrates on why this happened and what to do now. I went to look at a JM today at a pinsider's house who lives close to me and he had several pins that were in good shape. I've been looking for a Funhouse for a long time and he had one in real nice condition, I'm hoping he sells it to me at some point but I had a game it was amazing and The Hobbit all of a sudden came to mind, I'm not a WOZ fan but the there is no denying its beauty and I put money down on The Hobbit as its a much better theme for me and I figured I'm getting WOZ quality with a great theme how could anything go wrong, sadly it has and I'm trying to hold on but here's the point if that fella had said today give me $4000 for Funhouse I would have which would mean cancelling TH, my response should have been I have to pass I have this awesome game coming and need my cash for that. I really want to keep my pre-order but Jack needs to speak up a lot more than he has and I think waiting till next month is a mistake. Hopefully we are all going to be eating these words down the road but for now I need something, if TBL was a theme I enjoyed for pinball I would be out already.

It's not unfair... It's redicous to compare a "Mr Blurry Cam" shot in the worst possible light to a professionally done studio shot. And in fact I'm seeing this shot pop up like that witch comparison that "other guy" kept posting. Have you seen that one? As many times as it was posted was just Cra... Oh you know

According to Balcer's quotes, he intended to have a very interactive Smaug, which explains the layout. When it became clear Balcer's Smaug wasn't going to happen, he probably wanted to redesign the layout like any decent designer would want, and I'm wondering if Jack felt that too much time and money was already spent to go back to a new whitewood. We have no clarity on what made Balcer quit, but it must be Jack's choices that did it. And Freres/Nordman, they must have been a part of all this inner turmoil.

I think the problem is the movies are not that closely linked to the book, and JJP's license is for the movies. The Hobbit book is a much lighter story in print than it is in the movies. In fact, I always thought Thorin and the dwarves were a bit comical in the book. The Hobbit movies just try too hard to recreate the LOTR movies, and get back to the Middle Earth created there. I think the LOTR trilogy was great, but I would have loved to see The Hobbit as a lighter movie without all of the bloat to stretch it into three movies.

LotR has some nice colors on the playfield, along with some storytelling.

lotr_pf.jpg

And unlike TH, it has enough inserts to customize a colorful light job.

6823.jpg

Nice toys too

I think LOTR is a bit dark too. Also, without the code and dots, I don't think it would tell the whole story either.

I think what makes TBL art feel really good is it's reviving an old pinball art style. Something akin to demo man, t2, etc. Bold colors rounded rectangles not a lot of pixelated art. It's a bit retro which fits really well with the theme and the whole bowling thing. It just works. Even though LOTR is REALLY pixellated that art yells LOTR!! It just fits. You artists can probably quantify why it works so well. For us non-artists it's just a strong, good feeling.

That can be fixed.

image_1.jpg

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Lol. I'm not a fan of led's at all. By dark I mean the color scheme. I don't think it takes away from the game at all, I think the LOTR books and movies are darker themed. I think the colors fit the game perfectly. I would have like to have seen TH movie go a different direction though. Peter Jackson tried to create another LOTR trilogy out of one short book, and I don't think it works. If I had never read TH, I might have a different feeling about it. I first read TH as a kid, and then a few times through the years. I read it to my son as a bedtime story when he was in 2nd grade a few years ago. Needless to say, I didn't follow it up with the LOTR trilogy. It's just a different kind of vibe.

It seems to me like there was no real 'director' for the game, as if the artist, designer, sculptor, rules guy, all were all in different places, and working in their own directions. Is this what happened? Was there anyone in charge of the project after Balcer left? Who knows, but honestly it is the only way I can imagine us getting what we have now. It is not bad, but it should be amazing. At this point I really should not care, but The Hobbit was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and it just disappointing that what we are getting is so lackluster. None of the separate elements look 'bad' to me... the toys, the photoshop art, the playfield, cabinet design, etc... they just don't unite to make an impressive whole.

The fact that LORT's really is a fantastic pinball machine is not helping. Those pictures are making me miss mine a lot. I hope Stern makes a VE, at the very least I probably will have one again.

TBL looks like it's going to be great. Congrats. Personally, I could never sit through the whole movie, so I'm definitely not in for it.

The second image I posted to you seems pretty warm to my eye.

If Stern released a LotR VE in late december, Jack would cry

I don't think it would matter. One of the reasons we ordered TH was to sit next to LOTR. I personally don't want TH to be another LOTR. I want TH to be a different pin altogether. I still think it will be a great pin before we ever get it. If I didn't, I would cancel my order tomorrow.

I like the LOTR movies, but fast forward though the bits with Hobbits
Then they came up with a Hobit movie, watched part 1 and was bored

Boring movie = boring pinball
Not helped by the fact that it took me four months to get into the LOTR pinball machine

Then there is the drab playfield art

I don't have a single led in my LOTR. The warm incandescent light is perfect for the theme. So we're all mentioning lotr, look at how inexpensive that pin was compared to POTC or other sterns in that era. It also proves you don't have to have a ton of crap to have a fun pin.

uhm, no. I don't think most buyers of TH are OCD'ing. And there are many who still want a nib LotR and a TH, but only have the need for one Middle-Earth game.

Of course. Who doesn't want a NIB LOTR? I have a perfect LOTR and I would consider buying one. That wouldn't stop me from buying TH also though. I guess it's a matter of what you want to spend your money on. If a person can only afford one NIB, they should definitely buy the one they are going to be happiest with, not the one that everyone else tells them is best.

Yikes...skittles in middle earth? Blasphemy!

the lighting should be like this
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I don't think it's too late for this to be a stunningly beautiful game. TH playfield artwork is far from drab. I don't think that's the issue here. Looking at the Expo videos, I notice 2 things: 1) the lighting in that hall was really bad. Way too bright, flat and overpowering… but more importantly 2) the game lighting as implemented was very, very basic.

The inserts are all displaying static colors and doing nothing fancy. Also, the GI lighting is your basic, cool white, which is doing the PF artwork no favors. Remember, these are full RGB LEDs that can render any color in the rainbow, with smooth transitions. WOZ lighting is nothing short of stunning, and IMO set a new high bar. Have you seen what they did with Fireball Frenzy? TH doesn't have the sheer number of inserts, but the GI has been redesigned and looks to be plenty powerful to throw light. Lots of opportunity there.

I actually really like the look of the Hobbit films. The sets are all beautifully lit, and the landscapes are very colorful despite the predominance of earth tones. There is plenty of opportunity for the dev team to translate that vision and inject color into this game via the software. They just need more time to do it. I remain hopeful we will see something amazing.

FYI...the GI in Hobbit is only white. They're not RGB LEDs.

Are you certain? Source? If so, that's a big disappointment

Ya the Hobbit movies are more colorful then the Rings movies.

Hi. I am a simple person and simply a Pinside neophyte. Take my opinion for whatever little value it is worth, but here is my observation. For the purpose of full disclosure, I own LOTR with the latest code, and I am paid in full for THSE. LOTR is number 6 on the pinside 100 list. I played a LOTR yesterday, built in 2003, without any code updates. It was a real privilege and eye opener. Imagine if JJP had released that same LOTR at Chicago last week. What would the pinball faithful say....................?????

-nice game with decent cabinet art and a great theme, though some of the playfield print is kind of fuzzy (good so far)
-lots of ramp shots and a complex, deep code (still good)
-truly theme based, with great integration of game, play, and theme (actually, very nice)
- disappointing Paths of the Dead nudge field, which really should have been a mini play field with its own flipper like some of the subsequent Stern games (oh well, nothing in life is absolutely perfect)
-Balrog bash toy which lights up and roars when you hit it. It DOES NOT TALK OR EAT YOURBALL. but it is still cool because the Balrog was cool in the movie (really??? How about more animation? We expected more).
-Baradur tower kind of buzzes electronically, particularly at the end of the Destroy the Ring sequence. (Was this intended, or is it simply an electrical short?)
-Palantir with an exposed drill hole and poor back lighting. THIS MUST BE A PLACEHOLDER FOR SOMETHING ELSE.
-Poor code with disruptions of game flow and some stupid play situations like when the Balrog blocks the center ramp to the ring when the Start Mode light is on.(there is more wrong than just the code).
-if you angle the game a bit higher, play will be faster and better(that's the down side of producing a game with so many ramps and not enough (rapid return) drop targets.)
-fun game, but how many times do I need to hear Gimli to say "the path of the dead" before I vomit???
-with the depth of this story and all of the possibilities for this theme, could the brilliant pinball gurus not come up with something better??? I think I will cancel my order and buy RCT by Pat Lawler when it comes out instead (truly, no offence Pat).

SOUND FAMILIAR????????? Give JJP and TH a chance. They still have a superior, game changing product with superior clear coated cabinetry, superior lighting with with RGB LED's, superior wide body design, and a great theme. Oh, and an LCD screen with true video, not a little DMD. Wake up people, the DMD went out with the pager and the typewriter. Sent from my I-pad. Cheers!