Jurassic Park
Data East, 1993#jurassic-park
The scoop (control room, starts modes) stopped working right in the middle of a game. It didn't work the next 5-10 times, then it worked twice more, and then stopped again. I put it into diagnostics and hit the switch, no dice. I tried everything in the row and column and everything else worked. The wires are connected.
Therefore the diode works.
I can also conclude that the switch is what is broken.
If I replace the switch, it should function again.
Is my thinking correct?
Maybe. Or could be a loose wire or diode somewhere in the chain that you missed. Or a connector issue.
Or the switch is bad.
In switch test, use a jumper to bypass the switch. If it consistently reads correctly your switch is bad or needs adjustment.
If it's still inconsistent using a jumper your problem lies elsewhere.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Maybe. Or could be a loose wire or diode somewhere in the chain that you missed. Or a connector issue.
Or the switch is bad.
Somewhere in the chain? But I did a switch test in diagnostics, all the others work (column & row), and when I test the scoop, nothing at all registers. Still could be in the chain?
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:In switch test, use a jumper to bypass the switch. If it consistently reads correctly your switch is bad or needs adjustment.
If it's still inconsistent using a jumper your problem lies elsewhere.
Ahh...... jumper..... ok....
I had to google that just now. Is that nothing more than using a wire to complete a connection where the switch is? I think that's right, and if so that's a big help man, thanks.
Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:Somewhere in the chain? But I did a switch test in diagnostics, all the others work (column & row), and when I test the scoop, nothing at all registers. Still could be in the chain?
Yes. Each row and column is daisy-chained from one switch to another (in that row or column). If a row wire, for example, is broken then any switch after the break won't work. If the switch in question is the last switch in a row or column (don't trust the switch matrix, the switches are not necessarily wired in that order) then a broken wire could cause only one switch to not work. The break can also be at the switch before the one that doesn't work .
JUMPER WIRE READY..... I think.......
I'm afraid to touch and am not 100% sure where to go with this.....
If I turn the machine on and put it into diagnostics switch test, where do I put the jumper wire?
There are three lugs at the end of the switch. Do I go right-middle? Right-left?
If I touch them and it says "Control Room", I am assuming that it is indeed the switch that is the problem.
I just need to know where to touch the jumper wire.
Never assume a diode "works" if all the other switches in a game function, including direct interface coin door switches or associated control boards both in the game (dependent on manufacturer) or the MPU itself in some case, not just the playfield.
Diodes can short OPEN, as well as CLOSED, and still be the source of the problem not the microswitch.
Your diode BTW is WAY TOO CLOSE to your center switch lug and wire, as shown in the photo of the jumper wire.
This can cause a temporary switch short in itself, due to assembly vibration while playing.
Sometimes just "wiggling" a diode, can cause the switch to magically come back to life.
This is caused by a colder solder connection, buildup of flux, broken continuity of a wire, or even a wire short.
Test it properly, by cutting off a lead, and using a multimeter, although this is still cannot always be 100% reliable.
If it is bad, cut it out, temporary bend leads of a new diode, or clip it on the microswitch, and test the switch again.
You already figured out how to jumper the switch.
Make sure you do not see switch matrix "blips" of other switches at the same time, as there can be phantom switch closures, the only one that should ever light up, is the switch you are jumper testing (there are a few exceptions such as ball troughs and optos, but that is a different subject area). This is caused by other problems, other switches, and may not even be related.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Never assume a diode "works" if all the other switches in a game function, including direct interface coin door switches or associated control boards both in the game (dependent on manufacturer) or the MPU itself in some case, not just the playfield.
Diodes can short OPEN, as well as CLOSED, and still be the source of the problem not the microswitch.
Your diode BTW is WAY TOO CLOSE to your center switch lug and wire, as shown in the photo of the jumper wire.
This can cause a temporary switch short in itself, due to assembly vibration while playing.
Sometimes just "wiggling" a diode, can cause the switch to magically come back to life.
This is caused by a colder solder connection, buildup of flux, broken continuity of a wire, or even a wire short.
Test it properly, by cutting off a lead, and using a multimeter, although this is still cannot always be 100% reliable.
If it is bad, cut it out, temporary bend leads of a new diode, or clip it on the microswitch, and test the switch again.
You already figured out how to jumper the switch.
Make sure you do not see switch matrix "blips" of other switches at the same time, as there can be phantom switch closures, the only one that should ever light up, is the switch you are jumper testing (there are a few exceptions such as ball troughs and optos, but that is a different subject area). This is caused by other problems, other switches, and may not even be related.
Damn..... ok I'm getting on this right now.
Just an FYI, this is how noobie I am: I just purchased a Multimeter, Soldering Iron, Solder, etc. I've never used any of it. I have been volunteering my time helping to repair machines at the Pinball Co-op, so I feel confident trying stuff out, but I'm still nervous doing anything at all.
I connected my jumper wire to the rollover switch in question and it went off in diagnostics. Nothing else initiated. The switch itself isn't responding.
Once again, it worked just fine since I owned the machine. It started to die in a game (didn't work 6-10 times in a row). During testing, it didn't work initially, then it worked 2-4 more times in a row, and nothing since.
If I wanted to replace the rollover switch, I don't think many people would argue with me at the moment..... would they?
Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:If I turn the machine on and put it into diagnostics switch test, where do I put the jumper wire?
There are three lugs at the end of the switch.
Touch where the wires are connected to the switch.
You can also use your meter to test the switch with the game off. Meter in continuity test, touch leads together. You should hear an audible tone, see zero resistance on the screen.
Now clip one lead where each wire is connected. If switch is NO (normally open) you hear nothing, see infinite resistance on screen.
Now use a ball to manually activate switch. If it's working right you'll hear a tone each time you activate it. If it's flaky you'll hear it sometimes. If you never hear it, reverse the leads and test again. Still don't hear it, switch is bad.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:You can also use your meter to test the switch with the game off. Meter in continuity test, touch leads together. You should hear an audible tone, see zero resistance on the screen.
Now clip one lead where each wire is connected. If switch is NO (normally open) you hear nothing, see infinite resistance on screen.
Now use a ball to manually activate switch. If it's working right you'll hear a tone each time you activate it. If it's flaky you'll hear it sometimes. If you never hear it, reverse the leads and test again. Still don't hear it, switch is bad.
I tried this exact situation. I connected the device, found infinite resistance (read 1500). I then activated the switch and it remained at infinite resistance (1500).
I tried one that I knew worked. I hooked it up to find infinite resistance (1500). I activated the switch and the reading changed (600).
No noises ever.
When I touched the two prongs together it made a noise, but never in any of the tests.
If you want to replace the switch, just do it. It's a $3 part and it'll take you 30 minutes tops. Be prepared for the possibility that it won't fix it the issue, but if it doesn't you can go from there.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If you want to replace the switch, just do it. It's a $3 part and it'll take you 30 minutes tops. Be prepared for the possibility that it won't fix it the issue, but if it doesn't you can go from there.
I read your post. I checked for loose wires. I am ordering diodes because of what you said.
Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:I read your post. I checked for loose wires. I am ordering diodes because of what you said.
To reinforce what you said above, and other replies have indicated......the best advice I was ever given in learning to repair pins (and cars, tractors, motorcycles, and, and, and....) is do not be in a hurry to start replacing parts. Spend your time learning proper troubleshooting techniques...and the employing them. This eliminates adding another variable of a "new defective" part. It happens, frequently. Read as much as you can and ask questions here (as you are doing) and you will be well on your way to getting these issues resolved.
Good luck with your repair and let is know when it is remedied.
I ordered the switch and diodes from Marco's. The diodes that came in the mail appeared 3-times the size of all the diodes in JP, so that made me nervous.
I never used a soldering iron or multimeter before today. I took out the old switch and removed the old diode, figuring I might need to use it if the new diodes weren't proper for the machine. The old diode tested well, so I attached it to the new switch and put it back into JP.
In switch test....... to my amazement..... it worked! I put it back into the machine and JP is up and running 100% again. Just got done playing it for 2 hours without any problem............................ well........ one of the balls smashed the plastic and it shattered on the inside.... so now there's that...... but the machine itself plays very well. Super stoked!
Thanks for all the tips. Still not sure if the new diodes are worth keeping, but I'll bring them into my local pinball place (shout out to the Vermont Co-op!) and see if they can use em.
Thanks for the tips everyone!
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