(Topic ID: 78096)

This market is on the way to its lowest point yet....

By Benepinballs

10 years ago


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  • 47 posts
  • 36 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by toyotaboy
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 10 years ago

    Think prices are low now, just wait until mid summer.... The limit has been pushed with new games as far as price and the market is going to start pushing back...

    If anyone wants to wager against this speculation with hard cash I am all for it

    #2 10 years ago

    I found a penny while snow blowing. I'll bet my Cold hard cash! Spiderman 3K by summer?

    #3 10 years ago

    Compared to what? You really think prices are going to go back to 2008 or earlier? People are running out of space and cash (because they want a lot of pins!) but pinball is still growing.

    #4 10 years ago

    Then if that is the case. I will keep what I have and just enjoy them. Or just try to find good trades.

    #5 10 years ago

    I don't know if prices have ever been higher in my neck of the woods

    #6 10 years ago

    Yep I have three that wont fit in the gameroom but they are safetly stored away until I get around to restoring them and replacing another in the lineup for a period of time.

    #7 10 years ago

    Riiiiigggghhhht.....

    #8 10 years ago

    God forbid, someone just sold their WOZLE pre order for what they paid. Wasn't that one of the first signs of pinagedon?

    #9 10 years ago

    They are still high in my area and sell quick, but location is everything. I have seen some deals online and am like I can't believe that has not sold yet.

    #10 10 years ago
    Quoted from Benepinballs:

    Think prices are low now, just wait until mid summer.... The limit has been pushed with new games as far as price and the market is going to start pushing back...
    If anyone wants to wager against this speculation with hard cash I am all for it

    hey- if it tanks can i buy your games?, you take pretty good care of them.

    #12 10 years ago

    Heck yes, if it tanks you can have them all except Indy

    #13 10 years ago

    Hey WOZ resale has dropped big time.... Think about how much the LE's used to be going for or even a place in line.

    I love the game myself, I ate my words on that part, But it will not be holding its value..

    its actually a good thing if used pins become more attainable for those new to the hobby.

    To many new high priced choices coming out it seems..

    I do remember just a few short years ago, that a Routed LOTR was only 1800 in this neck of the woods and its coming back

    #14 10 years ago

    If a routed LOTR comes to our neck of the woods for 1800, please let me know.

    Also, off topic, but your STLE wouldn't recognize drained balls yesterday. And quit adding mods to your IJ; it's making mine look bland at home

    #15 10 years ago

    Does that mean I can get an A lister in the 3k range in the near future??

    #16 10 years ago
    Quoted from ryan1234:

    Did you donate a $100?

    Quoted from Benepinballs:

    But it will not be holding its value.

    In other words: No.

    #17 10 years ago

    Bene- you just sold a used WOZLE In less than 5 day with a asking price of $7500.
    Did you lose money on this deal? Did your resale loose "big time"?
    Your original bet invited people to call you out in six months- it has been seven.

    #18 10 years ago
    Quoted from Benepinballs:

    Think prices are low now, just wait until mid summer.... The limit has been pushed with new games as far as price and the market is going to start pushing back...

    wait until the remakes enter the market, all the WoZ's get shipped, TH starts shipping, Stern pumps out another couple titles, on and on and on... you think Noah had problems?

    #19 10 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    you think Noah had problems?

    Are you saying we should buy two of everything?

    #20 10 years ago

    Omg, teekee is starting to make sense the end is nigh.

    #21 10 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Omg, teekee is starting to make sense the end is nigh.

    I've made sense from day one some of you are just a little slow... I don't think the end is nigh but maybe closer than we think?

    #22 10 years ago

    Pretty funny that when the distributors and flippers can't make a buck then they automatically think the entire hobby is crashing. The reality I see currently is LE/NIB pins have hit the high water mark and many retailers, flippers, and distributors of high end and top dollar stuff have seen demand drop and they are not making money like they were even a year ago.

    At the same time, route pinball is increasing in many cities and there are more players entering the hobby every week. These people are looking for an entry level machine and most are not looking for and 8k LE when they can find a fun 3k classic.

    In conjunction, I don't even see many of the leser titles for sale. Seems pretty obviuous to me that with the LE market dropping out post METLE a bunch of collectors woke up to the reality of how expensive these toys can be and that the LEs are not going to be an 'investment'. I have seen lots of folks reign thenselves in a little. The biggest dip in prices has been on the top/ most expensive. Everything else has just leveled off and some titles in the entry market have continueed up a little. I think it is a wonderful thing and hope that all machines are worth 50% of what they are now. Unfortunately, the reality I see is that many people have sucked up the older games into their collections and they are happy with what they have and not going to fire sale a 3k game for 1500 to help buy an 8k game. Fewer older games are in the supply chain that is evident from the data out there.

    On the opposite side there are TONS of new games coming to market and if they are not good enough to buy for 7k plus then people are continuing to be happy with their 3 $2500 games instead.

    If anything, I am hoping the first place we see a change in pricing is at NIB from the bigger companies. Seems to have already started since people like Skit-B and Ben Heck and Spooky are all showing that quality product can be built in even small quantities for a profit at under 6k (4750 for Predator). If they can do it, then those with the advantage of scale can do it also.

    #23 10 years ago

    I like to buy and sell a lot of games and have noticed as well. The number 1 reason for the current market situation is MMR. It threw the whole damn market out of whack and will for awhile. I think games are still able to move depending on price and condition. The days of selling routed unshopped games for high prices is gone. Condition is king but even on super nice examples don't expect to get what you paid if you paid top dollar!

    I think Stern played a part into it as well with the continued runs of Tron and ACDC. Yes both amazing machines but damn they made way to many for there to ever be a shortage in the market.

    As others above also have stated all the new companies locking up other peoples money doesn't help as well.

    In the end the hobby is not growing like it was and supply and demand plays a part in anything collectible

    -1
    #24 10 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballer22:

    In the end the hobby is not growing like it was and supply and demand plays a part in anything collectible

    Pretty much sums it up... supply will dominate 2014-2015.

    Quoted from Pinballer22:

    The number 1 reason for the current market situation is MMR. It threw the whole damn market out of whack and will for awhile.

    Totally agree and I think its a shame 20 year old pins being remade might kill the new stuff... plus it seems like so many complain about prices of the new Sterns LE's and price increases with JJP but they have no problem throwing 8 grand at a twenty year old remake that probably doesn't cost as much to make as a stripped down Stern Pro.

    #25 10 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    you think Noah had problems?

    I've got ninety-nine problems, but a bitch ain't one

    #26 10 years ago

    I would be incline to say that the market is not collapsing but on a major correction change. The hobby cannot support the prices that manufacturers are asking for without compromising their target market base. Add to that the Stern PR debacle with code updates and JJP's (pay 2 years before you receive system)...which is hopefully about to change with the partner investments. Just take a look at the ST LE & The Hobbit... not sold out...I rest my case....

    #27 10 years ago

    A casual collector's standpoint follows (and I'm going to paint with broad strokes here):

    I agree with the supply and demand conversation. I actually think the popularity of pinball machines is increasing a bit, but it cannot keep up with all the new titles and the increasing cost of the NIB. As folks have already mentioned, many first-timers usually dip their toe into a new hobby and don't go "all in". That can mean buying a machine or two in the $1500-$3000 range. It may mean buying 1 NIB. The cost of a NIB has gotten to the point where some collectors may only buy 1 NIB per year. So, for 2014, that can include as many as 10 NIBs to choose from including remakes and those from boutique shops. ~$80k to buy all those LEs/Premiums when there is fear in the air that all/most may lose value? No thanks!

    The folks that are buying and hoping to hold value or return a profit in an eventual re-sale are those that IMHO are "freezing up" and trying to decide what to do with their current collections. For me, a casual collector, I am happy with my meager set of 3 pins. I am very interested in titles from the 70s through the NIBs, but I am patiently waiting to see how the next few months pan out.

    To put it another way: I buy a lot of things knowing that they will lose value as soon as I crack open the box. Maybe I need to add pinball machines to that list.

    FYI: I have loved pinball since playing as a kid in the 70s. I jumped into the ownership arena last year. My big ticket item was a nice LOTR and then I followed it up with two more economical titles: Getaway and Cyclone. I'm still playing and enjoying those three machines almost a year later.

    #28 10 years ago

    The real shame is 20 years later...nothing can compete with that game...else there wouldn't be a 'problem.'

    Quoted from teekee:

    Totally agree and I think its a shame 20 year old pins being remade might kill the new stuff... plus it seems like so many complain about prices of the new Sterns LE's and price increases with JJP but they have no problem throwing 8 grand at a twenty year old remake that probably doesn't cost as much to make as a stripped down Stern Pro.

    #29 10 years ago
    Quoted from Monster_Bash:

    The real shame is 20 years later...nothing can compete with that game...else there wouldn't be a 'problem.'

    Really? I never thought MM was worth the money. It's a top twenty pin at best. I think so much of it is psychological... many got wrapped up in the value and think that it has to be the best.

    Now with the remake the same thing is happening... "its only 8 grand? what a steal!"

    LOL, PPS is laughing all the way to the bank and good for them! They should have charged 9...

    #30 10 years ago

    As long as a Nice TAF can be found right at 4k, I don't care about prices. That is the highest costing pin I want.

    #31 10 years ago

    Wait till they start fire selling to pay for mmr! That will be some good times to buy. Ed

    #32 10 years ago

    I think the LE market is already dead!!!

    Hence we will see more Pros and Premiums

    $7500.00 for a game is silly.

    I think we are going to see a decline but not on higher end titles as the demand for HUO or CQ machines will still get a premium.

    The Stern LE games that are band games or TRON will surely fall

    #33 10 years ago
    Quoted from Fast-Ed:

    Wait till they start fire selling to pay for mmr! That will be some good times to buy. Ed

    I think many may change theri mind when they have to actually pony up for the balance?

    When are MMR slated ot deliver? I want to have some cash available just in case there are some fire sales

    #34 10 years ago

    Cool, so TZ and IJ will be available all day for $1700 and I will be able to get a decent WH2O for $1200? I need to start saving.

    #35 10 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I think many may change theri mind when they have to actually pony up for the balance?

    just a guess, but I don't think many people will drop when the final payment is due. My rationale is that if they drop at that point, they have lost the $1000 deposit. Seems crazy to me that somebody would walk from their $1000 deposit. More likely, folks will drop when a drop out date is set by PPS - after that date, the deposits won't be refundable. Just my perspective.

    #36 10 years ago

    Things have picked up actually here. Last 4 month were the slowest in years for me. But I can't even keep up with the demand I've had for requesting the past 20 days. Once New Years was over I have been bombarded.. What do I know though lol

    #37 10 years ago
    Quoted from rad:

    just a guess, but I don't think many people will drop when the final payment is due. My rationale is that if they drop at that point, they have lost the $1000 deposit. Seems crazy to me that somebody would walk from their $1000 deposit. More likely, folks will drop when a drop out date is set by PPS - after that date, the deposits won't be refundable. Just my perspective.

    makes sense. I had not kept up and thought you could get out closer to delivery?

    #38 10 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    makes sense. I had not kept up and thought you could get out closer to delivery?

    Lots of misinformation out there. Probably best for us to go to the source (PPS thread) to get it straight. I've heard the argument before that when the final payment is due, lots of MMr folks will drop. But, I believe that the point at which their deposit becomes nonrefundable would be the time they would drop and I think that date will be quite a bit in advance of when the final payment will be due. My belief is not knowledge .

    #39 10 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    I've got ninety-nine problems, but a bitch ain't one

    She's 98 of them. The 99th is where I'm going to put my new Tommy when it comes.

    #40 10 years ago

    Prices are higher than ever in my area (philadelphia) with no drop in sight. Perhaps prices will level off, but thats not dropping. They are high and will stay high.

    #41 10 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    Really? I never thought MM was worth the money. It's a top twenty pin at best. I think so much of it is psychological... many got wrapped up in the value and think that it has to be the best.

    agreed on all accounts, however, I do think that the MMR is one of best things to happen to the market to help bring prices down….I am a collector yes, not an investor. Would like to be able to afford most any pins and I see this remake helping the situation. For those that invest and flip, I see the downside to not making as much cash as before.

    Would I like to see all my pins increase in value, of course!! But I am a realist, and I play for fun first if they go up in value great, if they go down, so be it….I buy them to look at and play and not for investment. There are many other markets I can throw my money into besides pinball if I want to invest...

    #42 10 years ago
    Quoted from dantebean:

    As long as a Nice TAF can be found right at 4k, I don't care about prices. That is the highest costing pin I want.

    Wow! I am maybe a bit off but I haven't saw a 4k nice or above average Adams in over 3 years! A beat up unshopped would be in that range 3-4k but I would love a HUO or nicely restored unit for 4K! I think that prices have only steadied in the last 6 months. Some deals are popping up but the market is so saturated with new games. I would love for prices to fall like 20-30% but I don't think this is the case right now. Either way this is a great time for newbies to grab up a older game and get into the hobby!

    #43 10 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    I've got ninety-nine problems, but a bitch ain't one

    99 problems is still a Shitload of problems!

    #44 10 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    LOL, PPS is laughing all the way to the bank and good for them! They should have charged 9...

    Hey, this could still happen. The pre-order page (http://www.planetarypinball.com/product/product-name-rec6/) says "Expected Price" is $7995

    #45 10 years ago
    Quoted from BackFlipper:

    The 99th is where I'm going to put my new Tommy when it comes.

    Did you buy a Tommy? If so, welcome to the club!

    #46 10 years ago

    Games are still moving, I just sold my ELVIS yesterday for 45 hundred.
    The Rollergames I took in as a partial trade on the deal sold here on Pinside in one day.
    I sold Shrek, WH2O and FT last month in a package deal for 13K to a reseller.
    I haven't had any problems selling games, the feeding frenzy has slowed a little but games are still moving at least in my area.

    #47 10 years ago

    I don't foresee price drops, but I DO foresee more people trading. Most people selling are collectors, and want to mix up their collections, but they don't want to sell their nice pin for crappy market price, then buy another one in crappy condition for too much money and have to put in time and money to get it up to their standards. If 2 people trade, then both are usually in good condition, and any market difference can be settled by cash.

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