I'm an embedded programmer as well, and I think the 'all the added programming cost' stuff is a load of BS. Somehow Williams made toppers that made a waterfall (Whitewater), blew air on you (whirlwind), etc without impacting the cost of the game. The stuff they're adding to these toppers is just stuff they've taken out of the regular game to be a 'feature' of the topper.

I don't believe for a second that these things are unprofitable or they wouldn't keep making them. I do believe though that they must be a complete crapshow behind the scenes considering they can't get QA together, they can't seem to get them done in any reasonable time period, they can't seem to manufacturer them in any quantity, etc. Poor execution is not an excuse for high prices. Did you see the dude that made a complete droid that moves responds to voice stuff as a topper? Some dude in his spare time made something better than Stern. So you have to pick. Either:

a) Stern is gouging us or
b) Some guy in his basement is better at making toppers than Stern

I'd lean pretty heavily towards a) based upon recent price escalations.

Also, if you just look at the materials, they're usually not a whole lot different than aftermarket toppers that are $100 to $250. Look at the $800 Avengers topper, you can't seriously look at that and tell me that they're not making a killing on that thing, lol. I'd love to own an Avengers topper for my machine but not for $800, that's crazy money for something that simple.

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Really, and someone said it here already, but they've had an ex Disney guy on board for a couple of years now. Those guys sure know how to maximize on an investment, and I bet that's what he's brought to Stern. I'm just surprised there aren't more derived products, e.g. more pinball apparels, Christmas or birthday cards, mini collectible pinballs, double sided posters of past games, etc. Maybe that's the next step.

When they are asking 2k for a plastic topper I guess they don’t need to branch out.

Although can you imagine Stern doing so? $200 for a Xmas bauble, $20 for an Xmas card. I’m actually considering selling my Mando now and avoiding future Stern releases all together, really not a fan of being blatantly bent over with these new prices.

New Super Grand Supreme Elwin Signed Limited Blacked Out Edition Topper only $21,999 includes lasers and includes a pin to go with it. Act now!!

Makes me think of this:

And Stern was making a nice profit on the Black Knight topper too, when it sold for what now looks like a true bargain. Gary has forgotten his roots of making good products for a reasonable profit. How many jokes have we heard about his penny pinching just to stay afloat. Now he’s joined the ranks of the super rich and has forgotten his long journey of being prudent and giving his customers value for reasonable MSRP costs. It’s now time that some other company steps up to the plate and takes on Stern with a value for money proposition. Even distributors think stern pricing is crazy high and not worth it now. Bring on a new market high volume competitor! The market will be theirs!! Big volume, not small boutique pinball competition will bring Stern to their money grubbing senses.

You sure about that now the MSRP has been revealed?

Yep! Called them the minute I had seen the email. Very exciting!

I'm pretty sure they're using a transparent OLED display based on the pics ...

The screen is definitely mounted on the bottom with reverse image and reflected aka peppers ghost.

I’m not up to date on this. I bought one but is the way they went about it a good quality?

Quality will be suspect as has been the situation with the last several released.

I meant as far as how they chose the hologram method.

Makes one wonder if we will see owners modding this by changing the position of the screen by actually showing it in full frontal view? The screen seen directly will be hi-definition, instead of it just being reflected/faded onto another piece of plastic.

I was considering painting the outside of it to a slightly more premium matching color.

The actual screen has everything in reverse so it looks correct when reflected on the angled glass

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Awesome photo,

First off, to all the folks making toppers in their basement or mods of any kind, you all are amazing and I support you as often as I can with both with my words and my wallet.

That said, most folks in that category do not have to deal with manufacturing and shipping several hundred of the same product at a time, many aren’t dealing with licensing and legal fees (which typically have to be paid up front). The ones who are tend to have longer wait times and higher priced mods.

The element many want to ignore is these toppers, mods, etc don’t just magically pop into existence. They require tinkering, experimentation, trial and error to get to something that’s valuable, they require instructions, and support, etc.

For some a lot of their time spent on that R and D, documentation, etc. is simply lost time compensation wise. Others try to make up for some of it in the markup cost of their mods.

I’ve seen 3D printed items costing as much as $200 or more. If all I considered was the cost of the plastic many of those mods could be considered way overpriced.

But if I factor in their time and efforts required to arrive at that final output… How much is the right price? Well… what is that time worth to them? And how much are people willing to pay?

Regarding the software, I was just pointing out that Stern is doing a lot more software development work now in general. Insider connected, fancier toppers. Etc. We’ve seen prices of each tier of machines climb. The claim is increased material costs and the inclusion of Insider Connected on every new machine.

They recently (in the last last year or two) expanded their coding team, which is why we are seeing such fast and furious code updates (compared to previously) and why some long standing bugs are finally getting squashed.

I didn’t say they took a bath on every topper they make. I mentioned specific ones that were mechanically and functionally more complicated than simply “lights and plastic” and that needed more QA and by hand assembly time.

You can’t simply take BOM and apply a 5% markup and say that’s always fair or they are ripping you off. It’s not that simple.

I notice the examples you gave for toppers that didn’t impact the cost of the machines were tables that were original IPs with no licensing hurdles. They are also multiple decades old when there were multiple players in the pinball space which had to have an impact on retail target prices and bills of materials.

Stern currently has little incentive to bring prices down if JJP and others are raising prices to new highs and still moving inventory.

There is no way to compete with a father/son labor of love!

Nice job!

It must be quite the conversation piece!

Did I hear right on the Topper podcast that Stern are listening to its customers and there will be another significant code update with the topper?

I get there will be new topper specific modes, but I think they alluded to a revamp of "scope" entirely.

I really hope they revamp Ambush as it's a mode I always just wait out.

Scope seems to be fine - it's a nice quick reflex shot. The only thing I'm not a fan of with it is the point award on the right ramp. It's pretty minimal in the grand scheme of the game scoring. The other two rewards (foundry items & beskar) are far more valuable.

Maybe they meant the "Ambush" mode?

I'll have to relisten.

Im definitely not paying 3k Aud for this topper

Should be part of the game sw updates

Stern will lose clients going down this path

Im not buying anymore NIB unless Stern offers these gameplay updates as part of Mando sw updates

I really cant believe they chose this path to do business

It really does not matter what you think and it does not matter what I think.. Topper sold out. In Australia it will be more like $3400 and that is if you were fast enough to get one. While there is so much demand, I think prices will keep going up.

This is sadly 100% true.

The only thing I see changing it would be the flooding of the market with competition and surplus inventory.

Until that happens the sky will be the limit.

I just hope that if it’s going to the manufacturers and not scalpers and opportunists then just maybe we’ll see more inventory, innovation, and better quality over time as they reinvest at least some of that.

The scalpers and opportunists literally add zero value other than driving up costs.

Got to play a Mando pro on location with minimal background noise or interference and I was pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed the game after initially being kinda lukewarm about the game when it launched. Got to I Like Those Odds and look forward going back trying to get to the wizard mode.

Really like the way missions and encounters are separated and I think the way the upper playfield is integrated is wonderful.

I’m not a Star Wars fan or I’d be considering buying one. Leaps and bounds better than all previous Star Wars pins and Dwight’s best code to date.

So mando is my first pin and still love it. However, I feel like the flippers are getting weaker. I up the strength and still something seems off. I have around 500 plays on it, but IIRC, the manual doesn't talk about replacing the coils until much later.

Is this a coil problem and should I just replace them? Or is it getting too hot and I need those fans I've seen on here? I wouldn't think the latter because I only play for around 20 min a time.

Likely neither. Order some of these to replace the cheap ones Stern uses.

https://www.pinballlife.com/flipper-coil-stop-for-sternsega.html

Or swollen sleeves

Oh that's cheap as it is. Thanks! I'll order a few

Are you referring to the rubbers on the flipper with sleeves? Sorry, still new to this life >.<

Coil sleeves - the plastic tube that goes inside the coil that allows the plunger to slide easily. They get worn after a while and it’s worth’s changing them every so often……

https://www.pinballlife.com/2-316-coil-sleeve.html

Easy to change out when you’re changing the backstop - flipper should feel like new again after changing both.

You guys are awesome. Thanks for the help!

Great!
Where is the podcast you are referring to?
TIA

For 2k there better be ALOT more significant code. Not sure if Stern are really listening to their customers, with the recent game price increases and now toppers doubling to 2k they just priced out half of their current customers.

Ok I found it, the Topper's podcast is in the Insider Connected account : https://insider.sternpinball.com/exclusives/322

It's the Ambush mode that will be revamped.
From the podcast:
In this release, the Topper release, it's also coming with it an Ambush release. Ambush is getting a major overhaul too. That was more feedback that I'd gotten from the community was that Ambush, it wasn't scoring enough and wasn't worthwhile. I think they'll be happy with
what they're going to see with the Topper release.

Glad to hear Ambush is going to get reworked, I remember speaking to Dwight about a couple of the modes initially being worth nothing and I totally understood his reasonings behind those modes being Beskar based but always felt they needed points as well as Beskar to balance up the risk reward side of things so make them worth playing.

I actually like the idea that everything gets you Beskar, Hunter and ambush should both score great but give you a much larger Beskar payout. Looking forward to this update! Just a shame I won’t get to see the extra modes Dwight and co spent time on.

I installed Tekman's Ultimate Grogu mod in my Mando this weekend.

A great bit of kit and built so well. From the instructions to the wiring and even the way it was packed is meticulous.
I can see Tekman really takes pride in his work and has developed something special for the Mando fans.

The kids loved him come to life and the old Grogu has found his place as a topper. (At least until I find US$2000)

Is this damn topper available anywhere in the US from the first batch?

Can you provide a link?

Have a look here;

https://lundyelectronics.com/product/grogu-ultimate/

Also, there is a thread on various mod versions here;

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/grogu-modding-thread/page/6#post-7205268

Hey Mando community, I could really use your help dialing in the right ramp. I can’t for the life of me get a backhand shot off the right flipper up the ramp except maybe 1 in 20 shots, and when it does make it, it barely has enough velocity to make it all the way up and around.

Now, I’m not the best player, and for a while chalked it up to my skill level. However, after repeat testing, the window to make the shot is barely past the sling’s bottom post, and shooting the ball just as it passes the post is more likely to catch the edge of the stand up target left of the ramp than the ramp itself.

So I’m wondering if I need to lower my pitch, adjust the stand up target, or change the flipper angle.

Currently I’m at 7.0 degree pitch measured at the slings and level side to side. Flipper are pointed directly at the guide holes. Using Titan low bounce silicon flipper “rubbers.”

We were just chit chatting about this. Start at top of page 120.

Thanks! I recall reading about the skinny post swap months ago, but figured I just setup my machine incorrectly or my skill sucks. Sounds like some builds are just off a bit too much without a post swap.

I think this is a general theme with Mando based on feedback from people who own or play it on location. I think the design is just so tight (some of the shot tolerances are so narrow) that anything less than a flawless setup puts shot accessibility into question. Whereas other games can be more forgiving if you don't have things setup just right, I think Mando really HAS to be pretty much perfect or you really cripple the experience. The post swap really helps add some necessary forgiveness to that right ramp backhand shot (a critical shot to making it through the game).

The backhand shot to right ramp on my machine was tough but not impossible. I swapped out the lower post for a skinny, like recommend, and it made a huge difference. That shot went from stressful to satisfying. Highly recommend.

Couple things I was wanting to ask the rest of the club about or just mention:

1. Question: Has anyone else tried the “Minimal Use” shaker motor setting? I was wanting to tone down the shaker in my machine but found this setting to be no different than “Maximal Use.” I ended up just disabling my shaker and tbh I think I like having it off more than having it "Maximal Use." Partially because I tend to play later at night (when my son is asleep two floors above) and I'd rather hear the game than the rattling, but also because I think the shaker is a little too intense. I was gonna submit this as a "bug" to Stern but wanted to check with the club real quick.

2. Question: Does anyone have a strong opinion *in favor of* the Upper Playfield flipper(s) (pro or premium) being enabled during normal play? I feel like this should be an adjustment that can be set to the owner's preference. Beyond putting unnecessary miles on the upper flippers, having them enabled also generates a lot more machine noise. I'd love to be able to turn that off to quiet the machine down a little bit. Was going to suggest/request this in my bug report email to Stern, but wanted to make sure I wasn't alone in thinking this.

3. Comment: I put some "Precision Flip" flippers (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/review-precision-pinball-products-cnc-flipper-system/page/23#post-7207078) on my Mando last night and had some of my best games right after. Can't really prove that they were the reason for the improvement, but there's a whole thread of people with similar experiences to mine (feeling like shot consistency/repeatability improved). I'd recommend giving these a shot if you're interested. They also look pretty awesome, which doesn't hurt.

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