Wait no more!

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Whether Stern re-runs a game or not, that's not going to make Walking Dead come faster...games need development time - it'll come out when it's ready. The other games coming out of Stern's factory have zero bearing on new titles.

I'm very excited about the new games coming out and also relieved about the reproduction parts that are now available.

The thing I don't get is why the vast majority here seem to revel in the idea of prices crashing. The only thing I can think of is that it's in the short-term interest of buying games cheap. Why does everyone think those who are concerned about remakes and pins holding value must be a flipper?? Who is really spending more money; The guy who buys a $6k game and has to sell for $3k a year later when he wants to mix the collection up, or the guy who buys a $8k game and sells it for $7500-8500 a year later to buy different game? New games are STILL going to cost at least $6k+. How many people are really 'flippers' anymore? I think that's being blown way out of proportion.

The whole thing is so relative. The guy buying an $8k MMR is not poor and in need of assistance to get a pin. The guy buying a $2k pin is still worse off if his pin is worth $500 a year after he bought it. It is what it is, but there's no need to be gleeful about other collectors losing their shirts because they happened to be holding the 'hot potato' at the moment. It could happen to any one of us and being less than thrilled about it does not make you a speculator, investor, or flipper.

I posted about this recently. Schadenfreude, meaning; Delight in another's misfortune. And not just this thread, Pinside has been rampant with it since the MMr announcement.

Pathetic, embarrassing behavior.

Kim

It is pretty harsh to laugh at other's misfortune. Some who are trying to sell maybe were trying to make a buck or two, but considering how many in this hobby have managed to do that for a few years, is that such a bad thing? If you put some time, work, money into a machine, make it better, why not make a buck or two. I've made sure every machine I've sold was in better condition than when I got it. Overall I haven't really covered my time, maybe parts. That seems fair in the world of things. One thing is for sure, given my collection, all older stuff, I don't have any remakes to worry about, save for TSPP, perhaps. And it isn't going anywhere.

very few are laughing at misfortune. most of us are just rejecting the whiners who are bitter and lashing out with negativity on pinside.

I think it would be more exciting if JJP had all the WOZLE's shipped - that would mean Id be playing right now instead of posting

I don't revel in other people's misfortune as I've been there myself, but the fact that some machines may be obtainable in the future at what I can afford makes me happy.

I've invested in real estate, cars, marriage and business in the past and lost out on all, but money I've spent on pinball has brought me much more joy and so far no big loss. Of course I also haven't spent more than $3k on a pin.

What misfortune? People losing some value on a pinball machine? This isn't like someone is losing their home or something. Some perspective people.

Couldn't agree more.

Truly pathetic.

Yeah let's get hung up on his use of the word misfortune instead of acknowledging the point he was making.

Arnold and Slash, Whoopie Leah Thompson, Sam Kinnison, and Dan Akroid are on there but there is no axl or Flav as far as I know.
Where are they if you don't mind pointing them out

I bought a couple of games at probably the high point of the prices, but I am still enjoying the hobby. I think I will probably lose $1500-2000 (including price of mods) if I have to sell my AC/DC anytime soon. I can live with that. It means I need to play a lot more than the 516 games I have played so far, but I plan on that. I like seeing some remakes, I like a few of the new releases. I am having fun, and that is the most I have ever asked of any hobby.

I don't feel bad for anyone that looses money on a pinball game. I don't get joy out of it either but it is their choice!

Most entertainment/hobbies work this way. Entertainment/hobbies are very rarely "investments". The fact that this era appears to be coming to an end (long before the IMr announcement) is not bad for the hobby. It makes great games available to more people.

Is it really the end of the world if you buy NIB, play the heck out of it and it costs you 20-40% of the purchase price?

If it is, don't buy NIB, buy 2 year old machines like many people do with other toys (see sports cars).

What other hobby can you buy a brand new item USE it for 6-24 months and EXPECT to make a profit? That's just not logical.... I think they call it a bubble (see real estate).

Me neither. That's what these machines were designed to do. Take money!

If anybody is keeping track of and complaining about how much money they are spending to enjoy the game of pinball, then maybe they should GET OUT!

Live in the now Dudes & Dudets, what ifs will give you an ulcer.

I'm just looking forward to enjoying being a part of pinball history as it is happening, play-on.

You have got to be kidding me. This has got to be a troll topic.

I agree it is not good to wish bad fortune on anybody, but we are talking about pinball here.

For years myself and others have pumped endless amount of quarters, and further back dimes and nickels into pinball machines on location and never expected to get any of it back. Did I feel like I was mis-fortuned? No!

But I will say this, the OPs of these machines took great pleasure in our misfortune every time they opened the coin box and found it full. That is pinball! You must pay to play!

As long as you share the same tent.

Wow! Over 100 thumbs down. Very impressive

Don't know about Axl, Slash, and Flav, but Joe Pesci (sp?) is sitting in the hot tub on the translite.

And all this time I thought it was Al Bundy. Are you sure?
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While I respectfully disagree, I did not thumb you down. Not into mob lynching...

Doing reruns (MM for PPS, and IM) might be a clever way for Stern to buy time before making major changes in production and game design.

But these **are** exciting times. I will get Nemo within a few weeks (isn't it an exciting theme??) and Predator some day. Some get America's most haunted. Other are waiting for P3, Full throttle, The Hobbit or TBL. And so on.

_{Post edited by jlm33: added a few new pins and corrected typos}

2014, the year of the rehash where we boldly go where we have been before.
Fv(k it Dude, let's go bowling.

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Well said sir! Bravo.

Really? Seems we have a bunch of innovation with JJP, P3 and digital pinball. If anything pinball is finally getting out of the stone age.

Pinside generally doesn't like people who use pinball as an investment opportunity. When these guys occasionally get burned and then start to troll the forum with their BS the rest of Pinside has every right to lash back. IMO there's a lot more to it than Pinside being a bunch of douches that revel in other's misfortune.

Games are being made (lots of them). It's a great time for pinball.

Yep. But they didn't laugh in your face, taunt, brag or post about it on the internet.

Kim

I'm not sure I follow you but if you're saying, "They started it first".... well, that's just childish.

Kim

True, but then again the OPs that were making money before their machines broke down or had to be sold at a loss didn't brag about their earnings either.

Lame

The investment angle can't be ignored.

Almost any older title, and select Sterns, keep climbing in value year after year. You're not "blowing 5K on a pinball machine"... you're investing 5K in something that will probably return you that amount, or more, when it comes time to sell.

Because of this security, these items are attractive buys, thus sales/prices increase. The sustained value builds confidence in the commodity. People love pinball, and the fact they probably won't lose money by buying one makes them love it even more!

I choose to ignore it.

I didn't get into this hobby or sport to think about investments. I wanted to play the games I loved that were no longer available on route. If I was thinking of investments, I would have left my money in a secure account monitored by some banker.

Worrying about the future is pure BS in my book, because we could all drop dead tomorrow.

But I have learned that many are pre-programmed to think that your net worth upon your death is what makes you who you are. I don't buy into that.

Excuse me while I go play some pinball....

More like, this is not an exciting time for you. Congrats on all the thumbs downs, super jellz.

if it isnt an exciting time for pinball, then DO something about it, really!
I'm excited a bit by pinsider Linoleum's "Haunted Cruise" pin2k based project even though I'll unlikely be able to afford something like that anytime soon. what he's got going on with it is pretty cool, it'd be even cooler if they started getting produced without need of pin2k cab as donor to drop it into. can "they" claim exclusive rights to reflections-projections on glass to stop something like that happening?

story I'd read about Jpop as a kid he wouldnt stop playing with nails and rubberbands so there ya go, start playing with nails and rubberbands already, thats gotta be the real first step to the next level, obviously.. lol.
too primative? try creating-developing something original in VP-9 oughtta be plenty frustrating-exciting, then again when trying to produce a real one from whats there in virtual, or copyright and submit the design to a manufacturer, or start producing yourself. if whats out there already sux so badly, then prove it!

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Pinside looks down upon people who are using pinball as an investment above other aspects, and for good reason IMO. Using pinball as an investment is one's choice but is risky and puts the focus on money instead of pinball itself. So when things don't go these guys' way a little Schadenfreude is to be expected. I guess my point is that there's a decent reason behind it, and it's not because Pinside is a bunch of sadists.

From here on though I would pretty much expect every new game will depreciate - which is kind of normal for a toy. However because we have been living in a 'what it owes me' mentality plus some titles have got real hot, this will be a shock to people who treat their games as investments.

I am guessing a lot of people's churn rate will slow right down as it makes for less impulse buying if you get hit by a big loss. Having bought a STLE on impulse, got bored of it, lost a bundle, I won't be buying LE's on impulse again.

I don't feel that this has to be a one way or the other situation, you can enjoy pinball for the playing, AND also build a collection by buying and selectively selling games. I don't have much use for the pure flippers who have no pinball in their soul, only $$$, but over the past few decades if you were careful and patient, you could own and play some great games, and make some money too, nothing wrong with that IMHO.

What the remakes could do if they become the norm, is drastically alter the model of where you can buy a game, own for a few years, and then be pretty confident that you can sell it to buy something else and lose little or break even.

Uncertainty in pinball, (in this case which titles will be rerun), will have the same effect that it does in financial markets, bring prices down, which a lot of us would like, but it could also have the effect of really hurting the NIB market, which would put the manufacturers at risk. Buying NIB for the home is a new phenomenon, the depreciation on the games used to be absorbed by the operators, it might be a tough sell for a lot of pin buyers to lay out the $5K on a game if they know in 2 years it's going to depreciate 50% or more.

Actually 14 (if you also count the soon to be announced Vonnie D Pinball: http://www.pinball-magazine.com/?page_id=34 (Who's working on what?)

Idiot!

What like 7 guys, wow that's lots hey....

I'm looking forward to my free BBBr!

Pins losing value surely will affect the hobby as a whole as well. If one class of buyers leaves the market and there is no replacement, then a market segment disappears which is usually a bad thing. I just don't think this will be the case long term. If Rick is still making MMr in twenty years then I will be wrong as hell though.

I am a collector (although a newbie) and I definitely care about the value of these things. It's hard to put a finger on why since I won't sell them unless I need space. And when that happens it's the least loved pin that goes - those titles just don't fluctuate much.

Long term I think original pins are more collectible than the next remake. Players don't care as long as they get the same game. Hell, some are satisfied with "close enough". But collectors will always put more value on the originals and more rare machines. And some collectors are touched in the head anyway and would give you strange reasons for collecting something.

There is something else about pinball. Compare pin development to app development. Compare a finished small game app on your iphone to STTNG . It's the more wire than in a car factor. The SR factor. The artwork. Pinball is iconic. It represents an investment by some big company to get quarters out of your pockets and into someone else's. That's America.

Quick thread summary to this point.

How you not enjoy your hobby the way I do! That's not allowed. You must like it exactly as I do.

Can't give you something that will never happen, sorry!

That's not very nice… doesn't this break a Pinside rule?

The point is IM would be a filler to keep the factory busy and give them more time to work on the next gen system

Buying them time...

Except these are the guys complaining about their valuations - not that they have lost money in a sale. They are focusing on their future speculative values... Not a shedding a tear over their last sales.

Their focus is all over their faces

No one likes to pile on someone who feels they overpaid for something... But no one has any sympathy for those who were in it for all the wrong reasons

I love pinball!

I love playing them and fixing them and having others over to play and enjoy my games. I love that i have made new great friends via pinball, some that are now like family and we can depend on each other for real life.

I wish all games were cheaper and wish i could afford NIB games. I firmly believe that pump and dumpers are largely to blame for the overinflated secondary market on NIB, so i am very happy when this trend changes. I think all the true collectors will be just fine if the high end drops out and it will hopefully mean some of the middle road also drops a bit. I see nothing wrong in a little joy when people whom are largely a blemish on our hobby lose money on their investment.

I do feel bad for the hobbyists with limited space that over paid on over inflated IMs recently and thought they could play and then break even or make a little, but let this be a lesson to rethink your purchases and not buy into the artificial hype from the pumpers that are here to take your money. Toss on top they they are obviously not playing the same game since it is now evident a few recent IM sellers knew the remakes were coming and sold at the top before the news broke. Don't overpay for hype! There are lots of ways to have fun with pinball and many times you can make a few friends along the way and play for a few quarters.