Madison, WI
Your fiance would probably also love a $1300 Bad Cats, and it would prove how money-conscious you are!
(Topic ID: 81048)
Linked Games
Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013
Topic Gallery
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:Yeah where is this little tidbit hiding? I haven't heard about a $40 mil infusion. I'm not a huge JJP follower so maybe I missed something?
Nobody gave JJP a $40M cash infusion. Someone is clearly confused.
I just got my ECLE setup the night before last and it has blown me away! Fast, fun and a beauty to behold.
I've been waiting for 2 1/2 years and played early versions a few times and wasn't sure if I would like it. Well, I am 70 games played and no longer worried. Who knows for sure how I'll feel after the newness wears off, but so far really impressed like no other game has initially given me. Only a few pretty easy things to tweak were required.
I would suggest buying a HUO ECLE instead of waiting for Ruby Red. I also will not pre-pay in full for another game (that goes for all manufacturers) - too much BS and risk involved.
New Westminster, BC
Well, and this might sound crazy, but I also want to support JJP. He doesn't see a dime if I buy a HUO.
After playing WOZ today and just marveling at it, I feel really bad about the climate surrounding its release. This game single handedly changed the game. Unfortunately, when you are a new company, issues happen and mistakes are made and all of that will only make JJP stronger. Everyone who went in early knew the deal...when you stop and think about the bigger picture, it might make the wait more bearable.
Most of the world lives without running water or electricity and most of us are more concerned about getting a pinball machine. 8K could feed a lot of starving kids, but yet we need our pin. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal and heck, I want my toys just as bad as the rest of you, but people really need to cut JJP a break. Nobody wants people to have their games more than Jack. The reason the wait is so damn hard is because the game is so damn good. It's that simple.
The pain comes from having money tied up. But again, that's what this hobby is all about now...pre-order chasing the next hot thing. Jack didn't create this model, the hobbyist did. Jack didn't create LE's and variants, the marketplace did. Life isn't fair.
Like any new company, JJP is learning what the market will bear. And the market is more than just the product you make. Take the new Dodge Viper for example. One heck of a car. It runs neck and neck with cars that cost 3x as much. But Dodge can't sell a single one. Why? Because people who own old Vipers don't see the new one as a 140K car. The basically priced themselves out of the market and alienated their buyer, while trying to attract new buyers to the brand.
Pinball now is at the same crossroads. The collecting part is more about people showing off their $$$ and not about the game. And much like the Dodge Viper (which by the way comes in lots of different special edition trim) most pinball machines in 2014/2015 are going to sit unsold if the prices don't come back down. You can now buy a brand new Viper for 30K off sticker...That's the beauty of being a consumer, we can just choose not to buy.
Now back to my original post. I'm in no rush. I want to support JJP and get a new game. Nobody wants their first car to be a used one...it's never the same. NIB baby, that's what i want.
The only thing I can't understand with the Ruby Red is this: why are they making 1500? Scarcity would have been the way to bait orders. But announcing a run that is MORE volume than the EC editions seemed like a move designed to make the EC buyers happy, while also trying to give the RR buyers a unique machine to appease them. Would have handled it a bit different and gone really limited, say 250. You could always make more regular editions if people want the machine. But LE needs to mean limited, as in really hard to get. That's just my take.
I think the number of Ruby's produced will be much less than 1500 allowed. However, I'd go for a nice WOZLE NIB if you wish. You get it sooner and with a few extras the Ruby's don't have. Unless you have a kid who's heart is set on a Ruby.
Quoted from wtatumjr:I think the number of Ruby's produced will be much less than 1500 allowed.
That's an understatement! If they sell 100 I'll be surprised...
Quoted from wtatumjr:I'd go for a nice WOZLE NIB if you wish.
Be smart and grab an HUO WoZLE... going rate is around $7000 and dropping. $6500 or less by Summer. Ruby Red is a total waste of money.
Quoted from kaneda:Well, and this might sound crazy, but I also want to support JJP. He doesn't see a dime if I buy a HUO.
Now back to my original post. I'm in no rush. I want to support JJP and get a new game. Nobody wants their first car to be a used one...it's never the same. NIB baby, that's what i want.
Op has answered his own question. Then get a NIB red or green, whatever makes you happy.
Quoted from kaneda:The only thing I can't understand with the Ruby Red is this: why are they making 1500? Scarcity would have been the way to bait orders. But announcing a run that is MORE volume than the EC editions seemed like a move designed to make the EC buyers happy, while also trying to give the RR buyers a unique machine to appease them. Would have handled it a bit different and gone really limited, say 250. You could always make more regular editions if people want the machine. But LE needs to mean limited, as in really hard to get. That's just my take.
IMO, the original WOZLE (Green) buyers were expecting theirs to be the ONLY Limited Edition at 1,000.
If Jack made a MORE Limited Edition, he would have upset a LOT of folks - the people that put up money before there was a real product.
That is why he limited it to a larger number - it was a "political" move.
kaneda - like several had said already I think the best way to go is with a HUO WoZLE and save yourself some money. As for problems with the WoZ, yes there are problems for which JJP is working to resolve. The same people that are telling you not to buy a JJP due to the issues are the same ones b*tching on other threads about unfinished codes with Stern.
As for whether to go with the WoZLE or TH, this is tough. I am not able to afford the luxury of buying several NIB machines so I am sort of stuck in this same dilemma. When the MMr was announced I jumped on the list. Since then I have played WoZ and absolutely loved it. Started to think about getting a WoZ. As I thought about WoZ I said maybe I will go with TH instead. Now JJP announced that Pat Lawlor joined JJP and is going to be designing the third JJP game and it's not going to be a licensed theme. This really has my interest as well. So, like you, I sit here contemplating which NIB machine should I go with. This hobby sucks!!!
SO my recommendation to you is, go out and buy the WoZLE and put TH on your wedding registry and hope you or your fiance has a rich relative 
WOZ is an awesome game and the Ruby Red version will likely be the most rare/sought after version of the game when all is said and done. This version should also be the most reliable and have most of the bugs/issues fixed and completed software by the time it's released. As long as you don't mind the added wait and the additional cost over a HUO ECLE version that I say you should go for it.
Quoted from rommy:I thought JDA bought in? if they bought in at a $40million investment, then JJP has access to MORE capital than the amount invested, obviously. Some companies get leveraged 11times. But I digress.
So you made up the 40mm.
I'd say go for it for two reasons:
1) Go NIB for whatever your first game is going to be. The problems out of the box are going to be significantly less than the problems you're going to see with a 15 year old B/W game. You can buy clean games, for sure; I don't know about you, but I couldn't tell if a board was hacked or really what to look for. Not to mention JJP's customer care has been second to none.
2) Play the long game. If your fiance likes WoZ, get it to get her into pinball as quick as possible. The more she likes that one, the more likely she's going to be fine with you picking up a MM or something she may have been more iffy about before hand. After all, she already has her game.
Quoted from alichino:I'd say go for it for two reasons:
1) Go NIB for whatever your first game is going to be. The problems out of the box are going to be significantly less than the problems you're going to see with a 15 year old B/W game.
That statement is incredibly inaccurate. B/W is tried and true. Can you say that about JJP, hell no. I have zero issues with my TAF. It's been routed, overseas and it still plays like a champ. I'll put my TAF up against a WOZ any day of the week and twice on Sundays for reliability. Who cares how good JJP's customer service is seeing as by your statement you shouldn't need it...right?
That said I do think WOZ is a beautiful game. I have bought and will buy JJP products. But to say to buy something new because you'll have less issues is blatantly wrong, end of discussion.
Quoted from kaneda:Well, and this might sound crazy, but I also want to support JJP. He doesn't see a dime if I buy a HUO.
After playing WOZ today and just marveling at it, I feel really bad about the climate surrounding its release. This game single handedly changed the game. Unfortunately, when you are a new company, issues happen and mistakes are made and all of that will only make JJP stronger. Everyone who went in early knew the deal...when you stop and think about the bigger picture, it might make the wait more bearable.
Most of the world lives without running water or electricity and most of us are more concerned about getting a pinball machine. 8K could feed a lot of starving kids, but yet we need our pin. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal and heck, I want my toys just as bad as the rest of you, but people really need to cut JJP a break. Nobody wants people to have their games more than Jack. The reason the wait is so damn hard is because the game is so damn good. It's that simple.
The pain comes from having money tied up. But again, that's what this hobby is all about now...pre-order chasing the next hot thing. Jack didn't create this model, the hobbyist did. Jack didn't create LE's and variants, the marketplace did. Life isn't fair.
Like any new company, JJP is learning what the market will bear. And the market is more than just the product you make. Take the new Dodge Viper for example. One heck of a car. It runs neck and neck with cars that cost 3x as much. But Dodge can't sell a single one. Why? Because people who own old Vipers don't see the new one as a 140K car. The basically priced themselves out of the market and alienated their buyer, while trying to attract new buyers to the brand.
Pinball now is at the same crossroads. The collecting part is more about people showing off their $$$ and not about the game. And much like the Dodge Viper (which by the way comes in lots of different special edition trim) most pinball machines in 2014/2015 are going to sit unsold if the prices don't come back down. You can now buy a brand new Viper for 30K off sticker...That's the beauty of being a consumer, we can just choose not to buy.
Now back to my original post. I'm in no rush. I want to support JJP and get a new game. Nobody wants their first car to be a used one...it's never the same. NIB baby, that's what i want.
The only thing I can't understand with the Ruby Red is this: why are they making 1500? Scarcity would have been the way to bait orders. But announcing a run that is MORE volume than the EC editions seemed like a move designed to make the EC buyers happy, while also trying to give the RR buyers a unique machine to appease them. Would have handled it a bit different and gone really limited, say 250. You could always make more regular editions if people want the machine. But LE needs to mean limited, as in really hard to get. That's just my take.
And I'm sure jack will support your endeavors as well, ha. Please make a decision. Maybe your wife to be can make the decision since this is so terribly difficult for you.
The rest of what I said is is important. You can buy games with zero problems, but, without knowing what to look for, you're just guessing on the quality of it. I'm sure you went over the TAF with a fine tooth comb before you bought it or bought it from someone you trust to take good care of it. For every good B/W, there's another where the original OP didn't care to upkeep the game correctly. If you don't know what to look for or are buying from an unknown person, it can be a crap shoot.
If you haven't owned a pinball machine before and don't know how to make minor adjustments to switches, that JJP / Stern support can make the difference between a machine that's out of commission for a couple weeks while you try to figure out where a short is (and what a short even is), and having Lloyd spend two hours to walk you through exactly_ what to look for.
Quoted from kaneda:How easy is it to work on the game? Imagine I know nothing about working under the hood...is this game easy to fix little issues here and there? I know some things about arcades, but nothing about pin repair.
I would buy something else for your first game
Find out if you are a pinhead like the rest of us
Quoted from alichino:The rest of what I said is is important. You can buy games with zero problems, but, without knowing what to look for, you're just guessing on the quality of it. I'm sure you went over the TAF with a fine tooth comb before you bought it or bought it from someone you trust to take good care of it. For every good B/W, there's another where the original OP didn't care to upkeep the game correctly. If you don't know what to look for or are buying from an unknown person, it can be a crap shoot.
If you haven't owned a pinball machine before and don't know how to make minor adjustments to switches, that JJP / Stern support can make the difference between a machine that's out of commission for a couple weeks while you try to figure out where a short is (and what a short even is), and having Lloyd spend two hours to walk you through exactly_ what to look for.
Buying NIB from JJP is also a crap shoot. You are talking about long term quality vs. out of the box quality. That isn't a fair comparison but guess what? I'd still take a B/W in nice shape over a NIB JJP. Anyone dropping $8K on a pin should either know what they are doing or include someone who does. There are many pinsiders willing to help someone with a new purchase or checking out a machine that "having" to go NIB to ensure quality is kind of silly.
I get the sentiment, I just don't think it's a valid concern if the OP does enough homework.
You have to think about whether there will ever BE a Ruby edition. The market is saturated with green ones, and all of the green ones still aren't even in the market yet! How does JJP think they can sell ruby's when brand new in the box green ones are on the market for $1500 less than what he expects to get for a ruby?????
And the answer isn't because of a new topper or a different color powder coat.
Last, it's a hard call for me as to whether the WOZ or Obamacare rollout is the bigger trainwreck. Why in the world would you get on the JJP presale train #3 while others who have been riding for years are (understandably) jumping off? Even if ruby ever happens, you have absolutely NO idea as to when (or if) you will get the game.
Quoted from pninja005:Forget WOZ.. just get Luci..
I agree. You should get a pin in the meantime, such as Tron, acdc premium, ST or some such. Stern needs support as well as Jack. Without Stern these past 10 years, I don't even know what the pinball scene would look like, without Tron, Acdc, PotC, SM, LOTR etc..
Maybe all we'd have would be 15+ year old used games.
In case you needed additional recommendations 
I own 3 (just got my Twilight Zone) 1990's Bally/Williams games. Once they are working they are pretty trouble free. A couple of adjustments here and there and cleaning. I have had some board issues that are fairly easy to remedy if you have soldering skill. Even though B/W will not be supporting you the pinball community can walk you through most issues if you are at least a little bit handy. No matter what game you buy unless you have unlimited funds and like to call in an electrician to change a light bulb you will need to get into the game at some point.
Even if you do not want to handle fixing a circuit board replacements are available and there are people that will fix your board for you. Most parts to fix the popular games are available although there are some parts that might be hard to find.
I purchased my Star trek and Addams family gold new in box back in 1994 so they have had much less play than a game that was routed for a few years. The twilight zone is in pretty good shape so hopefully it will be pretty trouble free. Obviously the more use a game has the more wear and tear and more likely it might break down.
I also just got the Wizard of OZ ECLE 2 weeks ago. Love the game, wife loves the game (probably more important) even though she has barely broken 30,000 points on it. ( I am moving the outlane posts in today to reduce drains down the sides. I find the game pretty difficult as well.)
I have the newer light boards 7.5 volts but have been seeing the issue of the lights freezing requiring a reboot of the game. None of the boards have failed. This is a major issue and needs to be fixed. Supposedly that is coming in March. Sounds like a part or bunch of parts will need to be replaced and returned to JJP. Will it be March or July???? That might be one of the reasons to wait for the 75th anniversary game if you like the looks of it better. When I picked up my game and spoke to Jack it really seemed that most of his production issues were being sorted out. (like not having enough LE cabinets to produce games). Assuming things go with less issues for him then I would think all of the ECLE games would be finished as he said in 90ish days. So you would be looking sometime in the summer or later if issues continue to crop up for the 75th anniversary game.
Personally I think I might wait till the light board fix and then get one. I would still lean toward the ECLE just for the price difference right now.
I will say JJP support is pretty good, he even sent me his cell phone number to call him about a question on game setup
Seems like everyone who has needed replacement parts are getting them in a timely fashion.
Find a game that you both like, if the price is not an issue and WOZ is it then go for it. If you do buy an older B/W or other brand game just make sure it looks clean and works 100% for your first game.
And I agree I would suspect that the 75th anniversary issue game will be the real limited edition
Quoted from gweempose:Nobody gave JJP a $40M cash infusion. Someone is clearly confused.
There was no 40 mil cash infusion. For that amount u would be buying the whole company!
Clarified not 40 mil and jack still owns the company
Quoted from alichino:I'd say go for it for two reasons:
1) Go NIB for whatever your first game is going to be. The problems out of the box are going to be significantly less than the problems you're going to see with a 15 year old B/W game. You can buy clean games, for sure; I don't know about you, but I couldn't tell if a board was hacked or really what to look for. Not to mention JJP's customer care has been second to none.With all due respect, that statement is just plain dumb.
New never equals less trouble, whether it be a car, a house, or a pinball game. Think Corvair, Studebaker, Pacer, Pinto, Vega, Yugo, Citation, just to name a very few.
On the $$ front, if you buy a BW game (and pay a fair market price for it), you have an excellent chance of selling it for what you paid for it a year from now. If you buy a NIB game, you are almost certainly signing up for a multi-thousand-dollar whack when you tire of it in a year.
If you can't tell what a hacked board is, you better learn before you stroke an $8000 check. And if a board is hacked, it might effect what you pay for the game by a few hundred bucks, but it doesn't mean that the board is or will become unreliable.
Last, if you are going to own a pin, you better learn how to fix it. You can't just dial up the Springfield Pinball Repair Co Inc. and have him show up at your house tomorrow with a smile and a toolbox. There is nothing more frustrating that having a $X,000 game sitting in your house that doesn't work and you can't fix it. Your fiance will question your manhood.
Quoted from sc204:I have the newer light boards 7.5 volts but have been seeing the issue of the lights freezing requiring a reboot of the game.
Try disconnecting the shaker motor and see if that fixes it. So far that's worked for me but I may not have enough plays on it to be 100% sure.
Here are my thoughts: WoZ is a great game, but as a first game, there are a lot better choices out there if your first machine will sit in a solo collection for a while. It's certainly a technical marvel, but if you're going to stick with one machine, go for something with a bit more legs, like Addams Family, White Water, Lord of the Rings, Spider-Man, etc.
If you're planning on building a collection of 3 or more machines, then definitely WoZ is worth it, and you might as well jump in. It'll be a while before you get your Ruby LE, so it'll give you some time to shop for some more pins in the meantime.
Sana'a
Quoted from Gryszzz:alot.
Ya know,...if you're going to take that plunge and be the grammar / punctuation piggy, you should probably make a serious attempt at NOT MISSPELLING WORDS in your crass critique. *Slaps self*
Quoted from zsciaeount:It's certainly a technical marvel, but if you're going to stick with one machine, go for something with a bit more legs, like Addams Family, White Water, Lord of the Rings, Spider-Man, etc.
I'm not trying to pump up Woz and I agree that the Red Ruby will be a true limited edition with a hundred or two made. Who knows? But I've got a WH20, Lotr LE and SM and I'd say for one machine only with price not being a factor, Woz will have as much "legs" if not more than any of those.
The code will end up being the deepest ever, per Keith. That's right Keith, you said it! 
And so much potential with the Lcd display.
If $$$ is a primary factor then WH20 is awesome fun. But so are Lotr and SM, all epic pins imo, how can you go wrong!
Quoted from kaneda:green or red WOZ in this room?
Green.
I would not buy it, as a first pin, myself. I have played it and it looks nice, but it is not my theme at all.
Also, I would find it hard to wait to get it. If you really like the game, I would consider getting a Huo out now for the best possible price that way you can be playing soon, like others have suggested here.
Best wishes and good luck!
Got our WOZ standard 5 days ago. It's a fantastic game, it's basically all we've been playing since we got it. I have 5 other pins, and WOZ looks like it will be in the collection permanently. Yes, WOZ does have some bugs that aren't worked out yet. Mine does have occasional resets that are irritating, however, it is a extremely fun game. If you wait for the red one, maybe they'll have the bugs eliminated by then. I say go for it.
Quoted from JoeGrenuk:You have to think about whether there will ever BE a Ruby edition. The market is saturated with green ones, and all of the green ones still aren't even in the market yet! How does JJP think they can sell ruby's when brand new in the box green ones are on the market for $1500 less than what he expects to get for a ruby?????
And the answer isn't because of a new topper or a different color powder coat.
Last, it's a hard call for me as to whether the WOZ or Obamacare rollout is the bigger trainwreck. Why in the world would you get on the JJP presale train #3 while others who have been riding for years are (understandably) jumping off? Even if ruby ever happens, you have absolutely NO idea as to when (or if) you will get the game.
There is a presale train for pin number 3???? No. Well how could he say it on Pinside if it wasn't true? Ask him.
And good to see the old gang back in town.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Honestly this can't be a real thread???
Kaneda's posting history is unbelievable as well.
Quoted from DCFAN:Kaneda's posting history is unbelievable as well.
Dude has a lot of money to burn on his first pin. Has he heard of Circus, Loch Ness, Krull, BBB, Mermaid, etc? Those are the ones to get.
Quoted from kaneda:After playing WOZ today and just marveling at it, I feel really bad about the climate surrounding its release. This game single handedly changed the game.
Huh? What game are we talking about has changed? The New-pinball-companies-jumping-into-the-warm-$9K-NIB-price -waters-with-both-feet game?
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Honestly this can't be a real thread???
This thread is so 5 minutes ago we are onto NIB Tron LE now... Try and keep up people!
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-check-nib-tron-le
Quoted from Concretehardt:This thread is so 5 minutes ago we are onto NIB TRON LE now... Try and keep up people!
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-check-nib-tron-le
BIBLE next!
Quoted from jayhawkai:I just want to know where this crazy $40M number came from.
My guess is JDA head guy has 40 pins reportedly and JJP needed a mil or three to get to the business model to the next level so add the two together and its 40 mil, tada!
To the op wait for the outcome of your MMr NIB thread then choose between WOZ, Tron, MMr and ST <joking with ya>
Quoted from DCFAN:Kaneda's posting history is unbelievable as well.
yeah, just looked back at it... a bit manic... brand new to pins and all over these threads:
NIB Tron LE
WOZ RR
MMr
lol.
Friends dont let friends buy NIB pins when they're not taking their meds!!!! 
Quoted from jayhawkai:I just want to know where this crazy $40M number came from.
It's probably came from this line in the press release:
Jersey Jack Pinball's announcement provided little detail about its new partner other than that "JDA has a proven track record of success and generated over $40 million for their shareholders in their last transaction."
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
