(Topic ID: 221301)

Thinking about stenciling your pin?? Read this.....it might help

By timab2000

5 years ago


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#1 5 years ago

Hey everybody,

I wanted to take a couple of minutes to share my re-stenciling experience that I did on my Evel Knievel. I make no claims about being an expert on painting cabinets, this is the 3rd one I have done, and I think this one and the others have turned out pretty nice, but if you are thinking about doing it here are some tips to help you.

First, before you start spraying make sure you have everything you need close by. Stopping in the middle to find something is only going to make the paint dry more and make it harder to deal with pulling the stencil off. The problem with the paint drying and getting tacky is, as you pull the stencil off, the vinyl will start to stretch, which it is going to do anyway, but the paint will adhere and start to stretch as well. So as you pull the paint stretches and the breaks off of stencil causing it to fall back onto the cabinet and usually not where you want it. (see pictures)

You have to remember that the stencil is "one big sheet" of vinyl, not just a bunch of little easy to remove tape pieces. So as you pull the stencil off you have to deal with this large piece of vinyl as you are pulling. I have talked with Jeff at "Pinball Pimp" who make the stencils to get tips and he has been a big help. His stencil are some of the best and easiest to work with and I would highly recommend going thru him if you are thinking about doing this.

Ok so 1st picture is when I did my Star Trek. This is me pulling the protective film off to reveal the actual stencil that you would be spraying over. The trick is as you are pulling...do not pull part of the stencil off with the film. I have done this and it sucks!! It causes the vinyl to stretch or tear which in turn screws up the layout. Go slow.20180410_093529 (resized).jpg20180410_093529 (resized).jpg

Once the stencil is down then tape off anywhere that you do not want the paint to go and start spraying. I used Rustoleum 2X on my Star Trek and Evel Knievel but used regular Rustoleum on my Flash Gordon. (I talk about that later.)

Once the paint is down, it's time to start removing the stencil. (have a sweat towel ready, you need it. You don't want to drip sweat into your fresh paint)
I start from the back and go forward. In the 2nd picture, you can see the lines are pretty crisp and clean. That's because the paint is still wet, so it peels cleanly, but as you work further forward the paint starts to set up and gets tacky. This is not something you can do in 5 minutes.20180717_091101 (resized).jpg20180717_091101 (resized).jpg

As you work toward the front and you are pulling the vinyl you will see the paint starting to stretch with the stencil. As the paint breaks off from the vinyl it will fall back on to the cabinet, sometimes back into the painted area, but usually back on the the cabinet where you do not want it. (see pictures 3,4,5,) I am not sure how to avoid this from happening20180717_091129 (resized).jpg20180717_091129 (resized).jpg20180717_091146 (resized).jpg20180717_091146 (resized).jpg20180717_091251 (resized).jpg20180717_091251 (resized).jpg Looks bad, but I will get all the cleaned up so you won't even notice, just takes a lot of time.

If someone knows a way to avoid this I would like to know. Basically what I do to fix this is... after the paint is dried, I just go back and touch everything up. The Rustoleum 2X paint dries fairly fast, which is part of the problem. On my Flash Gordon, I used the regular Rustoleum. The reason for this was I could not get the right color in the 2X stuff. The problem with the regular is, it dries slower which is good for peeling the stencil, but it seems to be more prone to runs than the 2X. I had to re-sand my Flash cabinet 2 times due to runs in the base coat of red. So for me, I would rather do a little touch up than have to re-sand a cabinet.

Another thing that comes up as you are removing the stencil is...some of the stencil will tear as you are pulling due to the fine detail in the artwork. Again that will want to fall back into the paint and mess things up as well. So what I have learned is as I pull and start getting a large piece of vinyl in my hand is, I take a exacto knife and cut the large piece free, so I do not have so much material to deal with. But cut it down low so a long piece does not drop back into the paint.

Remember too that your hands are going to be covered in paint. I wear latex gloves. But those will be covered in paint as well so you have to be careful not to touch anything or that will make a mess too. I wish I could have taken pictures as I went along but it was just me doing this. May if I do another one I'll get someone to shot pictures as I go.

Last picture of cabinet after I was done.20180717_091156_001 (resized).jpg20180717_091156_001 (resized).jpg

Now I know someone is going to say, "Where is the speckles?" I chose not to add those. Didn't like the look. I hope this help someone out there that might be thinking about doing a repaint. I'll post pictures after I the touch up all the messy areas.

#3 5 years ago

Hey Arcane thanks for the added info. I'll have to try the Naptha trick when I do the back box. I use a pair of medical hemostats for carefully picking the edges that might lift off. They do tend to get gummed up with paint so I make sure they are good and clean before I start.

I like the comment on panicking. that certainly happens while trying to do do something like this. Would like to see some of your pictures.

20180717_131031 (resized).jpg20180717_131031 (resized).jpg
#8 5 years ago
Quoted from Marvin:

It's pulling up because they are putting down way too much paint

If you read "Pinball Pimps" instruction page he suggests not letting the paint the paint dry.

http://pinballpimpstencils.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PINBALL%20PIMP%20Cabinet%20Stencil%20Instructions%20v2018.pdf

Just following the instructions.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from Marvin:

It's pulling up because they are putting down way too much paint

Quoted from Marvin:

I didn't say anything about letting the paint dry. If you're going to say you're following the instructions, follow the ones for the paint also. Film thickness is important. The paint instructions are higher priority than the stencil makers instructions

While I, and everyone else appreciates your input, I was actually trying to respond to the comment about letting the paint dry. I understand that you should follow that paint can instructions, however a can of paint only costs $4.00 and a set of stencils are $140. I'll do what the stencil instruction say.

As far as putting down to much paint...yeah I probably do. I like to make sure I have a nice glossy coat. I think that putting down light coats may give and uneven glossy appearance in some areas, where in some other areas may look like more of a satin finish. I never said I was an expert at this. I only posted this to get some other less experienced people an idea of what they can except. Not trying to start an argument.

#17 5 years ago

Hey Marvin sorry I quoted you and not the other person.

I am not trying to give bad advice I am just telling them of my experience. Nowhere did I say, "do it just like I did and you come out great".

If you are so much better at this let see some of your work. Put your money where your mouth is

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from timab2000:

Hey Marvin sorry I quoted you and not the other person.
I am not trying to give advice bad I am just telling them of my experience. Nowhere did I say, "do it just like I did and you come out great".
If you are so much better at this let see some of your work.

#19 5 years ago

Here are some the pictures of the same messy areas cleaned up. Still need some work but getting better

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#20 5 years ago

Here are two of the other games I have done.........

20180718_143012 (resized).jpg20180718_143012 (resized).jpg20180718_143033 (resized).jpg20180718_143033 (resized).jpg
#21 5 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

I am puzzled as to why you guys are taking the stencils off while the paint is wet/setting? I have made my own vinyl stencils for the three cabinets I have done and I have found that keeping the paint application as light as possible and letting it fully dry before removing the stencil gave me the best results. When removing my stencils I lift a corner slowly and as parallel to the surface as practical until I reach an opening. I then slice the stencil so I can work pulling along only one edge at a time. I can see how if the paint was heavy, it would tear an edge this way so a light paint application becomes SUPER important with this technique. Maybe the vinyl Jeff uses forms more of a paint bridge, thereby necessitating wet removal? Or maybe there's some other reason (like figuring that too many customers would apply too a heavy coat of paint to allow dry removal)?

I do agree with a lot of what you have said. I just have not found much info on this site, or any other as to the correct way, if there is one, on how to do a complete repaint. Vid has a section on cabinet repair and I looked thru a lot of that, but the I never saw anything on stenciling or cabinet painting. I think he got too busy answering all the questions it created and just did not finish.

So I am just putting it out there as to what I did, and what happened to me while doing it. If someone gets anything out of it...Great! If not, and they think I am a complete idiot, then that's fine too. As I stated... I probably do laid down to heavy of a coat and that tends to lead to a lot of touch up, which I do not mind doing. At least I'm trying.

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from Marvin:

No one called you an idiot. you did try, but look at the EK overlap areas, you have the paint so thick that you can see essentially cliffs of paint. It shoudn't look like that and it didn't out of the factory. thinner coverage will cure better, and not peel or wick under the stencils. If some does wick it will be very minimal. If you are going that thick just because you want gloss, put the paint down correctly then clear it with whatever gloss level you prefer.

As I stated before...let see some of your work.

-1
#26 5 years ago
Quoted from Marvin:

This looks well done. No huge steps of paint layered on each other. nice job.

OK considering he is standing 4-5 feet away. Lets see close up

#27 5 years ago

Ok Now I'm about the same distance away as he is. The close ups I took were about 3-4 inches away. When you stand 4-5 ft away you can't tell the difference.

And as I stated before Marvin lets see your work if your such an expert.
20180718_153237 (resized).jpg20180718_153237 (resized).jpg

If I would have just taken pictures of everything I did from 4-5 ft away everyone would have said looks great well done.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from Marvin:

Why are you throwing wolffcub under the bus, he did what appears to be nice work. kind of diskish behavior.

I am not throwing anyone under the bus. You have done nothing but criticized the work I have done, yet when I ask to see up close pictures of his work I get nothing and when I ask you to post your re-paints of work you have done, I get nothing. All paint jobs look good far away

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

I just did my right side stencil yesterday and it’s under this sub forum called Lectronamo rebuild. I used the same rattle can paint you did and a thick abs stencil that was just laid to the cabinet. I did 4 light coats while it was horizontal and let it dry for about 15 min between coats and had no issues. Some of the edges have that original slight ghosting that made it look 100% original.

I think the paint job you did looks great. Not throwing you under any bus.

#32 5 years ago

I am guessing that ABS stencils do not stick like vinyl? You just lift them right off??

#33 5 years ago

Thank you Stevein Texas.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from SteveinTexas:

Your examples are very good and the first I have seen in this detail using these stencils and the box store spray paints. Marvin is being frank and correct in his paint thickness observations and this makes this a better thread than most actually to me.

I appreciate Marvins frankness, and I have admitted to going to heavy on the paint, but to say I am giving blatantly poor advice is uncalled for. I not trying to give advice, only sharing my experience. If you don't like my experience... Marvin can keep his "DICKISH" comments to yourself.

Quoted from Marvin:

Don't tell "inexperienced people" blatantly poor advice. I'm not the only one who is said too much paint is the problem. You'll also get horrible ridges with over thick paint application.

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

My lines are not perfectly sharp but I was just not trying to get that look anyways. its still not bad for a non stick down stencil. I paint models all the time with tape and stencils and too much paint per layer can cause bleeding, glosses seem to cause more of an issue. You cab still looks great and like you said a bit of clean up and it will be perfect.

Yeah that looks great. Thanks for posting that. I wasn't trying to say your job would look bad close up, I would like for my stars to look like that. But I am not sure if I can get that kind of result. I'll keep trying though..........

#39 5 years ago

Picture of back box stars. Very similar to woffclub. I do not know if you can get that look from vinyl stencils or not.

20180718_160007 (resized).jpg20180718_160007 (resized).jpg

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

You have a small airbrush timab? A little masking and a few thin coats of white primer over the bleeds and some thin coats of white would take care of it.

No I do not have an airbrush. But I am working on figuring it out. Way too heavy on the coats of paint and not being patient enough on letting it dry somewhat, before peeling.

Practice make perfect I guess. Hopefully I'll do better on the next pin I find.

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

Man I should get into the business of laser cutting cabinet stencils from the 1/16” abs I used. Worked great because of their weight.

Great idea but...how many times can you continue to paint the same machine?

I think this is where the vinyl stencil has the advantage. (business wise) You only get to use it once. It can't be re-sold to someone else You get one shot and that's it. Forcing the next person who has the same machine to go out and buy one for themselves. I hope that made sense.

But yeah the results you are getting are nice! Well done!

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