(Topic ID: 236755)

Thinking about selling my entire collection - 15 Games


By WackyBrakke

8 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 254 posts
  • 138 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by spfxted
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Should I sell my collection to pay off the house”

  • Yes! 162 votes
    61%
  • No! 53 votes
    20%
  • You're bananas 50 votes
    19%

(265 votes)

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#151 8 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Why do I somehow expect to see you on TV late at night, sitting in the back of a rented biz jet, and telling us all how much money we can make in real estate without any work to do on our part other than send you $79.95 for your books on how to make money in real estate with out working? Buy my books and the money will just start rolling in.

If you're going to mock people investing in real estate, could you tell us what would be better? Serious question here, at least tell us what you would do.

#152 8 months ago

Man - I am in the wrong thread. I wanted to discuss what eight thousand dollar toy I need to get next. And you guys are talking about selling all your stuff and paying off your mortgage as soon as possible... what the hell guys? Come on

#153 8 months ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Man - I am in the wrong thread. I wanted to discuss what eight thousand dollar toy I need to get next. And you guys are talking about selling all your stuff and paying off your mortgage as soon as possible... what the hell guys? Come on

Here's the hat trick; pay off your mortgage while buying pinball machines.

There's no instant gratification there, as it takes years. However, it is possible for many of us.

#155 8 months ago

Sell the house
Sell the pins

Get a smart phone and a minivan

#156 8 months ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

You can't compare investing to Financial Freedom. Paying off all of your debt has no risk! Investing always has risk. Two entirely different situations. Once you obtain financial freedom, then investing in whatever, becomes much easier.

Opportunity cost is definitely risk to paying off debt. Every very wealthy person and government gets there by properly managing it.

#157 8 months ago

I paid mine off 5 years ago. It's a great feeling to be debt free.

#158 8 months ago

I don't know anyone who regretted being out of debt and had more financial freedom!

#159 8 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I can't decide, but if everything comes together this year there is a strong possibility I could pay off my house IF I also sell my entire collection of pinball machines, which conservatively I think I could sell them for $97,900.00
I'd have to slowly bring my collection back over the next few years........

If you pay off your mortgage, you will still have monthly obligations for your home that you will have to be disciplined enough to save for (e.g. property insurance and real estate taxes). These factors should play a role in your decision making. Personally, I self escrow which means I pay my own taxes and insurance while avoiding things like PMI (which I assume you are not paying). Think of it this way, where I live and in my situation even if I payed off my mortgage I would still carry a monthly obligation of 40% of my current total house payment in order to cover insurance & taxes.

Of course other factors should play into your decision such as job security, how much liquidity you have (i.e. cash in checking/savings), what interest your money is earning as compared to how much your loans are costing you, etc. Personally, my definition of "debt free" has always been a little different than most. I've strived to always have enough liquidity (not counting investments, retirement, etc.) to cover any debt I have, but I realize this is not possible for everyone. In such a situation, you have security of knowing you could literally be completely out of debt tomorrow if you wanted, while at the same time if an emergency did arise you have plenty of cash for it to not impact you while also being able to still meet your financial obligations for months or even years to come.

However, if your situation is that you don't have any liquidity and your money is tied up on non-revenue generating assets that may have reached their peak of appreciation (e.g. pinball machines), then I would say that the wise thing to do would be to sell some/most/all of them (whichever you are most comfortable with), and the either 1) place the money in a high interest bearing account - you can get as much as 2% right now fairly easily, 2) completely pay off your debt, or 3) some combination thereof.

#160 8 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Opportunity cost is definitely risk to paying off debt. Every very wealthy person and government gets there by properly managing it.

Huh?? So let me get this straight, your saying having to pass on opportunities is risk? I Don't get that... Financial Freedom creates opportunities! Our futures are uncertain! Ok so maybe after paying off all your debt you are broke for awhile. I Pulled bubble gum wrappers and was broke for about three months. (not Bankrupt) After that the bank accounts started to rebound. Now I feel like anything that pops up (financially) I can handle.

#161 8 months ago

So the real answer to this question obviously involves a lot of variables (age, income, other investments, what you want out of life...) but since everyone is putting their story out there here is mine...

About 3 years ago we saved enough money to seriously consider paying off our mortgage (~$250K) and live mortgage-free. But, I knew I didn't want to live in PA my whole life (no offense PA people, it has some perks...I guess) and I also didn't want to have to keep at the same hustle and grind, especially since we were about to have another kid. So I slowly sold all of the pinball machines except a few, sold the house, invested in a couple more rental properties, bought a bigger house with a higher interest rate here in FL, and with the money left over we built a $100k addition to the house for my new pinball collection. Now I'm back up to about 20 pins (but no more, I swear it!) and plan to keep investing so that hopefully in a few years we should be financially independent. That is with a $3500/mo mortgage payment, which a lot of people would probably say is insane, but our passive income (almost) covers it. But these decisions have increased my quality of life WAY more than just the satisfaction of paying off my original mortgage would have. And now I get to basically stay home with my kids and play with them outside almost year round

So my advice to the OP...think about what would bring you the most happiness, and which works best given other factors in your life.

#162 8 months ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Huh?? So let me get this straight, your saying having to pass on opportunities is risk? I Don't get that... Financial Freedom creates opportunities! Our futures are uncertain! Ok so maybe after paying off all your debt you are broke for awhile. I Pulled bubble gum wrappers and was broke for about three months. (not Bankrupt) After that the bank accounts started to rebound. Now I feel like anything that pops up (financially) I can handle.

Look, I don't want to get too deep into it but carrying debt allows you to position your funds towards higher returning opportunities and gives you financial leverage through tax writeoffs and depreciation. I agree that zero debt is a good strategy but ultimately, the most wealthy people and corporations carry/manage a ton of debt and pay almost nothing in taxes.

#163 8 months ago

Are you sure you can get pins back in the house. That extra bedroom will be perfect for an in law or one of your other family members to come live with you. Nature hates a void. Maybe your wife likes not having pins in the house.

#164 8 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Look, I don't want to get too deep into it but carrying debt allows you to position your funds towards higher returning opportunities and gives you financial leverage through tax writeoffs and depreciation. I agree that zero debt is a good strategy but ultimately, the most wealthy people and corporations carry/manage a ton of debt and pay almost nothing in taxes.

That’s how people go bankrupt too. Market tanks, money is lost, still have mortgage payment, job is lost and poof broke. I’d rather pay shit off. Not to say I don’t also invest, we have Retirement accounts we’ve been contributing to since our early 20’s. Once the house is paid off the left over money that used to go to the mortgage (minus taxes and insurance of course) will go to investing.

#165 8 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I’d rather pay shit off.

No offense but where did this idea come from? Apparently you have or will have MBr LE and Munsters LE which is like $17K in new pin just this year. Did you ever think of paying off your mortgage with that money? You don’t need to pay it off in one giant payment and that $17K would’ve made a big dent in the mortgage.

10
#166 8 months ago
Quoted from rai:

No offense but where did this idea come from? Apparently you have or will have MBr LE and Munsters LE which is like $17K in new pin just this year. Did you ever think of paying off your mortgage with that money? You don’t need to pay it off in one giant payment and that $17K would’ve made a huge dent in the mortgage.

Totally been hacking away at it slowly with extra principle payments. Don’t think we’ll sell the pinball machines. We’re going to stick to our budget of hacking away at it with additional payments. If all goes as planned our mortgage will be paid off in 2023 and we’ll still have the Pinball’s. Still super tempting to just go for it, sell everything and pay it off, but I’d miss the machines too much.

#167 8 months ago

Do whatever helps you sleep at night?

I agree with the idea of keeping 3-4 pins.
Less maintenance.

#168 8 months ago

Keep pins. Payoff house in a few years. Then purchase bigger house designed to hold unlimited pins.

#169 8 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Totally been hacking away at it slowly with extra principle payments. Don’t think we’ll sell the pinball machines. We’re going to stick to our budget of hacking away at it with additional payments. If all goes as planned our mortgage will be paid off in 2023 and we’ll still have the Pinball’s. Still super tempting to just go for it, sell everything and pay it off, but I’d miss the machines too much.

And bamm, a great course.....there's only 5 years (still recommend looking at lowering the interest rate though) and you're out. I've witnessed many live by the investment company ads on TV, which paints an amazing picture at the end of the road if you let them help you place your money (for a fee of course). Unfortunately, no one knows when "the end" is, ......one major illness destroys the best-laid plans and tanks many, many people.

Enjoy the journey. If that includes pinball, so be it. If not, then sell and use the $$$ somewhere else. Always good to have options.... thanks for posting yours for us to talk about. (does everyone still have rosey cheeks in the "say something nice about another pinsider" thread?....you were very consistent for awhile.. ..)

#170 8 months ago

How long have you been collecting? My guess is about 5 years based on your collection.

I would say to stop buying games and divert that money into the mortgage. You get to keep your games and the house gets paid off in a few years.

You can trade a few games during the process to keep you collection fresh if you need to.

#171 8 months ago

Smart financial decisions should take priority over fun. If it makes sense for your family and financial situation, then pay off the house. $3000/mo can buy a lot of pins if you divide that what you want to do.

#172 8 months ago

Selling off your collection ,well thats just Wacky. Just remember you can't take it with you ,you only need enough to get there on. A better question would be should i REFI the house to add on so you could buy more Pins.

#173 8 months ago

Stop buying LE machines and put it to your mortgage instead. I’m happy with pro and used machines. Don’t have to have all the bling to still enjoy this hobby. If I want the bling fix I just go play these games on location.

-1
#174 8 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Contrary to what some people might think, most people's taxes will be LOWER when you go to file your return for 2018. It's called a "tax cut".

Are you sure this is true? For example from this article:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-tax-refund-2019-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-changes-isadora-bielsk-colorado-8000-tax-bill/

"Many Americans are learning their tax refund is not as much as they expected, or they are receiving a big tax bill. The average refund compared to last year has dropped nearly nine percent, according to the IRS. This is the first tax season since the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act went into effect."

So even the IRS themselves are saying that the average refund has dropped.

#175 8 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I can't decide, but if everything comes together this year there is a strong possibility I could pay off my house IF I also sell my entire collection of pinball machines, which conservatively I think I could sell them for $97,900.00
I'd have to slowly bring my collection back over the next few years........

I was thinking about the same thing awhile back. Problem is. I have at least 10 games that are less than 60 in existence. So getting them back would be next to impossible.

#176 8 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

That’s how people go bankrupt too. Market tanks, money is lost, still have mortgage payment, job is lost and poof broke. I’d rather pay shit off. Not to say I don’t also invest, we have Retirement accounts we’ve been contributing to since our early 20’s. Once the house is paid off the left over money that used to go to the mortgage (minus taxes and insurance of course) will go to investing.

Here's how I'd summarize:

1) If money *truly* is the concern here then sell most of your pins and buy a rental property that would be making you money, rather than the pins which maybe on average stay cash neutral.

2) If debt is the concern, then sell some pins and pay more of it off to give you some peace of mind.

3) If quality of life is the concern then maybe sell a few common pins to go through the exercise of it without pain, and at the same time alleviate some debt.

End of the day, it's your call.

#177 8 months ago

Iceman you are correct except for people high income in high cost of living areas. Places where property tax is *tens of thousands of dollars* and especially people in high tax states. Some people pay multiple tens of thousands of dollars in state and local tax which once was a deduction not any more.

While you can say tough nuts. This is in effect paying tax on money we never see.

The ability to deduct state and local tax was one way for people to cope with 6-8% additional taxes that some people in some areas of the country are not subject to.

Sure the lower tax bracket help high earners but the loss of SALT deduction hurts in reality likely cancel out the lower fed tax rate for me.

So for me meh there is no tax cut. It’s just pushing money around. Pay less top tax rate but more income is subject to tax. Also since State tax is calculated by Ajusted Gross Income AGI and now AGI can not be reduced by deduction so the state can actually collect even more money because more income is not a deduction and so subject to taxes. That’s like adding insult to injury.

#178 8 months ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

Here's how I'd summarize:
1) If money *truly* is the concern here then sell most of your pins and buy a rental property that would be making you money, rather than the pins which maybe on average stay cash neutral.

I bought four rentals instead of paying off my home. They all have a positive cash flow and a good amount of equity.
When the housing market takes a dive i'll look into buying another.
I have five years to go on a 10 year 2.62% loan.

10
#179 8 months ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

Are you sure this is true? For example from this article:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-tax-refund-2019-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-changes-isadora-bielsk-colorado-8000-tax-bill/
"Many Americans are learning their tax refund is not as much as they expected, or they are receiving a big tax bill. The average refund compared to last year has dropped nearly nine percent, according to the IRS. This is the first tax season since the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act went into effect."
So even the IRS themselves are saying that the average refund has dropped.

The treasury department took less out every paycheck so of course your refund will not be as big, but of course the biased media skews their reporting like usual to make the sheep think differently.

#180 8 months ago

I did the opposite of most everybody and used the low interest rates to go buy my dream property. I found a unique property that I purchased at a third under market value and was able to lock in at sub 4% interest for 30 years and was grandfathered into the MID before it went down. I have had to put in (and continue to do so) a significant amount of money, but it is increasing the value of the property greater than the amount I am putting in. Due to changes in zoning, there are features of the property that insure that the price only goes up, not down.

I am in the early part of my prime earning years, so do not mind shouldering the extra debt load while being able to greatly increase my familiy’s quality of life. As others have said, I have been able to use debt to acquire the property while using capital to make gains greater than the interest rate, which is a net positive. I will be able to pay off the property before the 30 years, and when all is said and done, the property will be a tremendous asset. Worse case, if something absolutely cataclysmic happened, I can walk away at any time with a gain.

Not intended to flex, but just illustrating that debt is not necessarily a bad thing, and can be leveraged effectively to increase your net worth while providing a lot of benefits.

#181 8 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Look, I don't want to get too deep into it but carrying debt allows you to position your funds towards higher returning opportunities and gives you financial leverage through tax writeoffs and depreciation. I agree that zero debt is a good strategy but ultimately, the most wealthy people and corporations carry/manage a ton of debt and pay almost nothing in taxes.

But we are not talking about independently wealthy people here. This sounds like a good business model but not so much for the individual. It really depends on how much risk you want to take at this stage of your life. It also depends on what financial life style you forsee/plan for yourself.

#182 8 months ago
Quoted from taylor34:

If you're going to mock people investing in real estate, could you tell us what would be better? Serious question here, at least tell us what you would do.

I was not mocking him. I was being real. Do I have anything better? No, I don't. The OP asked if he should keep his pins or pay off the mortgage. I am not a financial advisor. My advise was to leverage down and not be a slave to the monthly payments.

I known a few people who have made a lot of money in real estate. And I have known some who lost it all.

And when I read about how real estate is not any work and yada yada my mind takes me back to when the charlatans were covering the airwaves. But now that I am looking a little closer I guess my history is a little older than I thought. In the 90s, these guys were selling shit and getting rich.
And this is what I think about when I hear the real estates stories. "Its so easy to make money in RE. You buy with other peoples' money".

Along with these guys you had the "investment" houses pumping out real estate limited partnerships. When they pulled on that string long enough they started rolling out limited partnerships for buy railroad boxcars. If that does not do it for you, the gold and silver boys are back at it with buying their overpriced coins. The one thing I have not seen lately is the Strategic Metals limited partnerships.

I had a friend approach me several years ago about buying some houses and fixing them up and selling them. A partnership, if will allow. I was the one with the money and was not interested in the risk.

Anyway, when I hear "real estate" this is where my mind goes. Rightly, or wrongly, this is what always pops into my head. First thing; Always. A lot of people got taken for the real estate ride.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Del_Dotto

And don't forget Tom Vu

#183 8 months ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

Are you sure this is true? For example from this article:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-tax-refund-2019-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-changes-isadora-bielsk-colorado-8000-tax-bill/
"Many Americans are learning their tax refund is not as much as they expected, or they are receiving a big tax bill. The average refund compared to last year has dropped nearly nine percent, according to the IRS. This is the first tax season since the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act went into effect."
So even the IRS themselves are saying that the average refund has dropped.

Yes I'm 100% sure its true. Media fake news once again.

If SOME people aren't getting as large a refund they just didn't have as much withheld in 2018.

Every single scenario we have run, 100%, our clients are paying less taxes in 2018. Up and down the income scale.

That's not to say in some instances where people in high tax states and capping the SALT deduction couldn't get hit a bit.

All you have to do is compare the marginal tax brackets from year to year and run the numbers.

We are also taking advantage for those in retirement of doing Roth Conversions up to the last $$ in the 24% bracket.

While taxes are on sale. Never this low in our lifetimes again.

#184 8 months ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

So even the IRS themselves are saying that the average refund has dropped.

"refund" and "taxes" are not the same conversation. "refunds are down" is a discussion around how close pre-payments were to actual taxes owed - and not necessarily a discussion on if people's tax liability went up or down.

But the masses have a hard time differentiating between pre-payment and what your actual tax owed is.

For many, in the middle of the curve of complexity.. their taxes owed should be down and their taxes easier to compute. But those with higher local taxes, and higher incomes (say.. 150ish and up) they stand to probably be net negative of the changes.

People need to look at their actual effective tax rate and compare to prior years... not simply 'what my refund was'.

#185 8 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Contrary to what some people might think, most people's taxes will be LOWER when you go to file your return for 2018. It's called a "tax cut".

Great info. Thanks. How does this "tax cut" affect middle and lower income pinheads? I'm planning on basing my financial future on the advice of a pinball forum.

#186 8 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Yes I'm 100% sure its true. Media fake news once again.
If SOME people aren't getting as large a refund they just didn't have as much withheld in 2018.
Every single scenario we have run, 100%, our clients are paying less taxes in 2018. Up and down the income scale.
That's not to say in some instances where people in high tax states and capping the SALT deduction couldn't get hit a bit.
All you have to do is compare the marginal tax brackets from year to year and run the numbers.
We are also taking advantage for those in retirement of doing Roth Conversions up to the last $$ in the 24% bracket.
While taxes are on sale. Never this low in our lifetimes again.

Quoted from flynnibus:

"refund" and "taxes" are not the same conversation. "refunds are down" is a discussion around how close pre-payments were to actual taxes owed - and not necessarily a discussion on if people's tax liability went up or down.
But the masses have a hard time differentiating between pre-payment and what your actual tax owed is.
For many, in the middle of the curve of complexity.. their taxes owed should be down and their taxes easier to compute. But those with higher local taxes, and higher incomes (say.. 150ish and up) they stand to probably be net negative of the changes.
People need to look at their actual effective tax rate and compare to prior years... not simply 'what my refund was'.

Ok gotcha so it was all in the clever article wording, that figures. Serves me right, usually I first read several varying sources but in that case I just did a quick one time search, my bad. Although to be fair the reason I assumed it is because my accountant says it's hit or miss, some have it worse some have it better. Plus I haven't found any concrete data on whether or not withholdings are indeed more or less this year, so there is no definitive answer, it really is case by case. Like in our case I faired better this year but my wife faired worse.

Quoted from whthrs166:

But we are not talking about independently wealthy people here. This sounds like a good business model but not so much for the individual. It really depends on how much risk you want to take at this stage of your life. It also depends on what financial life style you forsee/plan for yourself.

For sure if you don't have the means then that's a totally different story. But I presume we're all talking about people that can afford to buy pinball machines, or in this specific case ~$90k worth of pinball machines hence the assumption is that these people aren't living paycheck to paycheck.

#187 8 months ago

I would keep a few, 2-3, and sell the rest to pay the mortgage. I'm actually going to be paying my mortgage off this month. Unfortunately, it's not the way I would have wanted to as it's from the loss of my mother. I know there's a lot of people, and being someone interested in the stock market and investments I get it, who say the money could earn 6-7% relatively conservatively, why would you sink that much into something that's just 4% interest? The home mortgage is a great bet, even Warren Buffet says so!

But, at the end of the day, it's peace of mind. The economy can tank, jobs can be lost, unexpected major expenses like HVAC replacement or roofs can happen at any time. Knowing you've safe guarded yourself against a lot of this and are in a position to live life more carefree is more valuable than the extra growth you *may* get to enjoy down the road. Back to mother, she died suddenly of, we think, sudden cardiac arrest at 62 two days before this past Christmas. Was a complete shock and one thing it's made me learn the hard way is how we really don't know the time we have. Having the ability to enjoy life a bit more in the moment than earn "x" amount more over 20 years could be massive if you won't be around in those 20 years.

The amount of money you'll save monthly too opens you up to re-buy your pinball collection too, fairly quickly if you're saving $2400 a month from losing it. Once you have the games back you want after 2-3 years, then you've got an extra $30k a year in your pocket that you can do whatever you want with -- travel, invest, a new car, etc. Lots of interest saved too along the way. I don't think you will regret it and, I know it's a constant debate on here, but I think pins are at a pretty high point now. You may get lucky and sell, pay this mortgage and, potentially, buy back in a worse economy or worse pinball market.

#188 8 months ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

t have the means then that's a totally different story. But I presume we're all talking about people that can afford to buy pinball machines, or in this specific case ~$90k worth of pinball machines hence the assumption is that these people aren't living paycheck to paycheck.

I dont know about you guys but I am a long way from being independently wealthy and I had 17 games. Just because you have a group of games doesnt mean your wealthy. I am now ahead of the financial game at 54.

#189 8 months ago

So, there are plenty of reasons not to do it-
- the cost of mortgage "cash" is about the cheapest it comes, good times or bad,
- you've *already* reached financial security if you're only a pinball collection sale away from saving your house in a worst case scenario (so why pull the trigger until or unless you absolutely need to?),
- hassle and effort in selling and rebuying, what, 15 pins,
- emotional attachment- at some level?- to current collection, yes, no?

But, my sense is that a guy who can peg the value of his collection at a number like $97,900 is a brutally mathematical dude and you can get past all of those reasons. In which case, yea, I would agree that selling off all pins, pay off mortgage, buy pack pins over time with interest savings is almost a logical imperative.

#190 8 months ago

If $100K is hard to come by then sell the games.

If $100K is easy to come by then keep the games.

Don't worry about pin prices skyrocketing. The increase in pin prices on 15 games is nothing compared to 360 months of interest.

I always laugh when folks say to invest instead of pay off your house. Investing includes diversification. Diversification includes bonds. Bonds are debt instruments. Mortgages are debts. Bond income is a dividend. Dividends are taxed as income. Mortgages are no longer tax deductible. Why pay a dividend to your bond holder so you can buy bonds with a lower dividend?

Buy your own bond, pay off the house. Guaranteed ROI with 0% tax. Plus in retirement you can pick your bracket since you're not forced into realizing income to pay that bond off, I mean mortgage

Of course max out 401k, Roth if MAGI allows, too. But when talking taxable accounts, a paid off mortgage is a good one!

Disclaimer. I'm an idiot

PS

Money only matters if you need it. The less you need money, the less you need money.

#191 8 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I was not mocking him. I was being real. Do I have anything better? No, I don't. The OP asked if he should keep his pins or pay off the mortgage. I am not a financial advisor. My advise was to leverage down and not be a slave to the monthly payments.
I known a few people who have made a lot of money in real estate. And I have known some who lost it all.
And when I read about how real estate is not any work and yada yada my mind takes me back to when the charlatans were covering the airwaves. But now that I am looking a little closer I guess my history is a little older than I thought. In the 90s, these guys were selling shit and getting rich.
And this is what I think about when I hear the real estates stories. "Its so easy to make money in RE. You buy with other peoples' money".
Along with these guys you had the "investment" houses pumping out real estate limited partnerships. When they pulled on that string long enough they started rolling out limited partnerships for buy railroad boxcars. If that does not do it for you, the gold and silver boys are back at it with buying their overpriced coins. The one thing I have not seen lately is the Strategic Metals limited partnerships.
I had a friend approach me several years ago about buying some houses and fixing them up and selling them. A partnership, if will allow. I was the one with the money and was not interested in the risk.
Anyway, when I hear "real estate" this is where my mind goes. Rightly, or wrongly, this is what always pops into my head. First thing; Always. A lot of people got taken for the real estate ride.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Del_Dotto
And don't forget Tom Vu

There are snake oil salesmen everywhere. Let me try it another way. You throw 100k down, pay off your house then lose your job, or get sick. Now what? You still have bills, commitments, etc and no income.
Now instead, let's say you leverage that 100k, and put 10% (20k) down on 5 200k rental houses. You now control a million dollars worth of property and make $500 a month positive cash flow from each one. That's $30, 000.00 a year, whether you get out of bed or not. Want to take a cruise around the world for your 50th birthday? Go ahead, borrow against the equity. And in 15 years, they are paid off and then the money really starts coming in. You now own them free and clear. And you didn't pay them off. Your tenants did.
Of course I'm oversimplifying. Yes it's hard work, but real estate is very forgiving. Trying to flip your house and no buyers? Rent it out instead. You almost have to try to fail when it comes to real estate. Prices going up? Buy and flip. Prices dropping? Buy and hold(rent). My dad always told us "buy land, they don't make it anymore".
We only have 2 rental units right now but were able to pay cash for one at an auction. We paid 18k and have been renting it for 10 years at 950/month. You do the math. It's been paid for ten times over. Between that and our other one, the mortgage for our own house is covered, every month, whether i lose my job, get sick, etc. And that's "passive" income, taxed at 15%, not like earned income at st% or higher.. Get yourself 10 rentals and you can stop working altogether. I know, I've seen it. My younger brother flipped his first house at 19. By his 30s he was building a 70 home subdivision with streets named after his kids. He's the only one without a college degree in the family. He's also the only one that lives in a custom built house on a lake.
Just trying to say there's better ways to invest that 100k that can still take care of your mortgage. Good debt (housing, income property) and bad (credit card, etc). The point isn't to pay a mortgage off, just to generate enough income that you aren't the one paying it.

12
#192 8 months ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

There are snake oil salesmen everywhere. Let me try it another way. You throw 100k down, pay off your house then lose your job, or get sick. Now what? You still have bills, commitments, etc and no income.
Now instead, let's say you leverage that 100k, and put 10% (20k) down on 5 200k rental houses. You now control a million dollars worth of property and make $500 a month positive cash flow from each one. That's $30, 000.00 a year, whether you get out of bed or not. Want to take a cruise around the world for your 50th birthday? Go ahead, borrow against the equity. And in 15 years, they are paid off and then the money really starts coming in. You now own them free and clear. And you didn't pay them off. Your tenants did.
Of course I'm oversimplifying. Yes it's hard work, but real estate is very forgiving. Trying to flip your house and no buyers? Rent it out instead. You almost have to try to fail when it comes to real estate. My dad always told us "buy land, they don't make it anymore".
We only have 2 rental units right now but were able to pay cash for one at an auction. We paid 18k and have been renting it for 10 years at 950/month. You do the math. It's been paid for ten times over. Between that and our other one, the mortgage for our own house is covered, every month, whether i lose my job, get sick, etc. And that's "passive" income, taxed at 15%, not like earned income at st% or higher.. Get yourself 10 rentals and you can stop working altogether. I know, I've seen it. My younger brother flipped his first house at 19. By his 30s he was building a 70 home subdivision with streets named after his kids. He's the only one without a college degree in the family. He's also the only one that lives in a custom built house on a lake.
Just trying to say there's better ways to invest that 100k that can still take care of your mortgage. Good debt (housing, income property) and bad (credit card, etc). The point isn't to pay a mortgage off, just to generate enough income that you aren't the one paying it.

Sounds lovely till those renters complain about everything or stop paying rent and you have to evict them. Dabbled in rentals once, never again. Never mind when they move out and you have to clean up the pig sty and then sit on an empty property (and mortgage you have to cover) till you find a new renter. Fuck that shit. All rentals were was increased stress and work. No thanks!

Not to mention the profit on the sale of a rental home is not tax free.

#193 8 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Sounds lovely tell those renters want shit fixed or stop paying rent and you have to evict them. Dabbled in rentals once, never again.

Never in 10 years had to evict anyone or had them stop paying rent. That's why you screen them. Use a tenant service who pre-screens them if you can't manage.

If shit breaks, you fix it. How often does shit break in your house? Maintain it and it's minimal, like a pin.

#194 8 months ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

Never in 10 years had to evict anyone or had them stop paying rent. That's why you screen them. Use a tenant service who pre-screens them if you can't manage.
If shit breaks, you fix it. How often does shit break in your house? Maintain it and it's minimal, like a pin.

Glad it’s working out for you. It’s not for me.

#195 8 months ago

Well, you will make the right decision for you. And it will be awesome to know you own that house free and clear, regardless when that is. So good luck to you. Keep at least one pin...lol

#196 8 months ago

"SELL THE HOUSE. SELL THE CAR. SELL THE KIDS. FIND SOMEONE ELSE. FORGET IT. I'M NEVER COMING BACK. FORGET IT."
-- Apocalypse Now
Always sound advice.

#197 8 months ago

Well, I am just about done selling my games off. I went from 18 down to one. I didn't sell for the $$$, but rather I am just trying to simplify my life. Plus, there are so many more options of places to play now and new games coming out all the time, it's completely different than when I got into the hobby where you had to own games to be able to play ones in decent shape. I plan to have 1-2 games (new ones), and then turn one over each year and take a small hit - the cost of entertainment. Truthfully it has been completely exhausting selling off a bunch of games. Between the tire kickers, people flaking out on deals, dealing with shipping companies, etc., I know I will never own that many games again. For me, simpler is better. Sorry that didn't really answer your question...

10
#198 8 months ago

I owe 21k on my mortgage. Been paying extra on principal since moving in in 2002. When mortgage is payed off I will continue to work 6 days a week as that’s all I know.

I will probably just sit and let the stress of the past 20 years melt away knowing I’ve done my personal best to raise my tiny piece of this world ( wife and 2 kids).

As I came from less than nothing for a family my sense of accomplishment will far outweigh the risks I could of taken to live a more rich existence.

#199 8 months ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

There are snake oil salesmen everywhere. Let me try it another way. You throw 100k down, pay off your house then lose your job, or get sick. Now what? You still have bills, commitments, etc and no income.
Now instead, let's say you leverage that 100k, and put 10% (20k) down on 5 200k rental houses. You now control a million dollars worth of property and make $500 a month positive cash flow from each one. That's $30, 000.00 a year, whether you get out of bed or not. Want to take a cruise around the world for your 50th birthday? Go ahead, borrow against the equity. And in 15 years, they are paid off and then the money really starts coming in. You now own them free and clear. And you didn't pay them off. Your tenants did.
Of course I'm oversimplifying. Yes it's hard work, but real estate is very forgiving. Trying to flip your house and no buyers? Rent it out instead. You almost have to try to fail when it comes to real estate. Prices going up? Buy and flip. Prices dropping? Buy and hold(rent). My dad always told us "buy land, they don't make it anymore".
We only have 2 rental units right now but were able to pay cash for one at an auction. We paid 18k and have been renting it for 10 years at 950/month. You do the math. It's been paid for ten times over. Between that and our other one, the mortgage for our own house is covered, every month, whether i lose my job, get sick, etc. And that's "passive" income, taxed at 15%, not like earned income at st% or higher.. Get yourself 10 rentals and you can stop working altogether. I know, I've seen it. My younger brother flipped his first house at 19. By his 30s he was building a 70 home subdivision with streets named after his kids. He's the only one without a college degree in the family. He's also the only one that lives in a custom built house on a lake.
Just trying to say there's better ways to invest that 100k that can still take care of your mortgage. Good debt (housing, income property) and bad (credit card, etc). The point isn't to pay a mortgage off, just to generate enough income that you aren't the one paying it.

I like how you refer to owning 5 rentals as income you get just for getting out of bed. As if it isn't often a nightmare to be a landlord...

#200 8 months ago
Quoted from ktownhero:

I like how you refer to owning 5 rentals as income you get just for getting out of bed. As if it isn't often a nightmare to be a landlord...

You have your pick of qualified tenants if the rental is nice.
I've had this property for 9 years and it's never been unoccupied for even a month.

IMG_7240.PNG
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