(Topic ID: 153764)

Thinking about my first EM. Mechanically speaking, what...

By Onevox

8 years ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Wickerman2
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    #1 8 years ago

    ... should I be looking for? its a Gottlieb.

    I'm a newbie in early SS. Started to wonder if EM's require an entirely different skill set, and knowledge base.

    What are the top three maintenance differences?
    What are the common trouble spots when scoping out a purchase?

    #2 8 years ago

    What title are you looking at?

    At the very least it should start a game, add players (if it's a multi-player), kick out a ball, move to the next ball when that one drains, and end a game on the last ball. Of course, all playfield targets should work and the chimes or bells should ring.

    The good news is that EM logic is easier to work out than SS boards. Get a schematic if it doesn't come with one and invest in a flex stone and an L switch adjuster.

    Good luck and enjoy!

    #3 8 years ago

    Get a mostly working pin that starts- kicks a ball out and scores- you will get it working pretty fast and they are pretty bomb proof once dialed in. Enjoy! I have 4!!

    #4 8 years ago

    From my experience, I find SS machines are easier to repair, but more expensive to repair. EM machines are harder to repair, but less expensive to repair... The "build" quality on Gottlieb EMs is superior to the other manufacturers during the EM era... If you can repair an SS machine, you can repair an EM machine... Most any EM machine can be inexpensively repaired. When you buy an EM machine, try to get one that is somewhat complete (very few missing parts) and has good cosmetics. Multi-player EM machines are more complicated to repair... Grab an inexpensive EM machine, and if you have problems getting it running, just let us know...

    #5 8 years ago
    Quoted from Onevox:

    .. should I be looking for? its a Gottlieb.

    Honesty, it up to you on what you buy, EM’s look difficult to fix, but usually are not that hard. Most often a miss-adjust sw is all that is wrong. EM are built to last, and they do. So long as the game is complete, you will most likely get it to go, and like new. So just like SS machines, look at the back glass and the PF for wear. It does not matter if it is single or multiplayer. If you go for multiplayer, I would go for a 4 player, again it does not really matter.

    Some games have more complicated rule sets, so more relays. So long as you have a schematic, no problem. Pick a game that seems to be working. Look inside, does it look original, is there out of place wires (Plastic insulation, new solder) and do any coils look burnt, paper bunt off and wire very black. But don’t be too concerned if the Lock RE coil and the Coin Lock RE coil look a bit burnt, they always do.

    Schematic reading is harder for Ems than SS, and in my opinion Gottliebs are harder to follow than Bally or Williams. SS schematics are more about how boards are connected and the layout of the board. EM schematics are logic diagrams, how relays interact with each other ETC. Once you get shown a few points, it is not that hard. And most schematics have keys for symbols and wire colours.

    For your 1st EM, stick with Bally, Williams or Gottlieb. Plenty of people on Pinside can help with these brands. Other brands like Playmatic, Zaccaria and CCm, not as many techs around but still some help available here.

    #6 8 years ago

    I'll give you some perspective from a guy that had zero pins, and decided to start with a $50 Gottlieb EM I picked up on a whim. I followed that up with another $50 EM (Bally this time). Neither were working when I picked them up. There was a world of difference between them though. I don't know anything about non-EM pins, so I can't offer comparisons just yet.

    Short Version: A clean, complete machine is your target. Working is a huge plus, because maintenance truly is minimal on them it seems. They were basically designed to run mechanically maintenance free to limit the number of service call outs, etc. If you want a project, then finding a clean, complete non-working EM is a great buy if you can find it cheaply. As others have said, sometimes it's as simple as a single switch contact or blade out of alignment. The hardest part about working on an EM is learning to read the schematics and tracking down each little issue methodically. The folks here on Pinside are awesome with this stuff, and I've found that they are more than willing to help. Trust them, give them the info they need to assist, and they'll guide you through your issues.

    The Gottlieb I grabbed was complete, but it was rusted inside and out. Literally every single thing that could have rust on it did, most of it completely covered. That should have been a red flag right away, but knowing nothing about pins or EMs at the time, I figured what the hell, $50, I can decorate with it if I can't fix it. The playfield was in good shape, and the backglass only had flaking in the "red" painted areas, which is common. Mechanically, it was a bear to get working, but mostly because of all the rusting and sticky bits and pieces. In the end, a huge part of the repair was just cleaning, lubing where possible, checking alignments, etc. It was tedious, but not hard. Even more tedious has been the slow-going process of getting every little light working again, since basically all of them were so rusted they didn't make good contact, etc. I still have a couple dozen of those to go.

    The Bally was the opposite: it was pristine inside. Every bit seemed shiny and practically looked new to me. It was missing a couple of coils and parts, but they were easily replaced. Getting it working again was mostly a matter of a few switch adjustments and contact cleaning, very minimal effort thanks to some of the great folks here on Pinside offering up assistance. The game plays great, and everyone enjoys it, which to me is the most important part at the moment.

    Final bit of advice: unless you find a sought after title or more valuable EM, don't pay much for it even if it's working (unless you don't care about return on investment or money down the road). From what I've seen, there are a lot of EMs that simply aren't worth a ton of cash. Even the $50 ones I picked up weren't that big of a deal. Do a little research, or a price check on here before throwing down too much cash. If your area is anything like mine, EMs will sit on places like Craigslist for a while when they're overpriced. I regularly see them get listed for $800, only to drop down to $200-$300 range after a couple of months. Just be patient, you'll get a good deal.

    #7 8 years ago

    You've got to play your EM's or they get cranky...one good thing about SS if you ignore them they don't make you pay for it in maintenance.

    #8 8 years ago

    All great info. I think I'll check the pin out. If I can get it for $200-250 I may take the plunge. I like the Flash I have but enjoy the sounds of an EM and would like to have one. Doesn't sound like there's that much difference from the standpoint of skills needed. MaxAsh, sounds like your Gottleib was in an open air beach arcade.

    #9 8 years ago

    EMs are intimidating when you first open them up. Wires everywhere. But they are built to last and pretty easy to figure out once you get over initial fear of them. Back glass and playfield are key, everything else can be replaced or repaired, plenty of parts out there. Make sure you play it, ems were designed to make money so they drain easily. Make sure you are getting a fun one that won't piss you off. And get some help moving, they weigh a ton.

    #10 8 years ago

    EMs are the easiest things to work on. Once all the switches are cleaned and adjusted they're usually good to go for a long time as long as you play them occasionally. Gottlieb Ax and Bx relays are typically the most finicky aspect of those games if things don't work right. Getting the reset circuit working so that all the bonus steppers and score reels zero out will stop the score motors from continuously running.

    Once you understand how an EM works, then you can pretty much troubleshoot any EM from any manufacturer as they're all pretty much the same. Bally, Gottlieb, Williams, Chicago Coin, Sonic, Zaccaria, etc. The biggest difference is how well the schematics and documentation are done. I like Gottlieb and Williams manuals/schematics the best. Bally's I don't care for and I'm working on a Sonic with no schematics or manual; so I can't comment on theirs, but the game is working great now even without them.

    #11 8 years ago

    The one other thought I would add, is working on EMs requires that you can think logically, since troubleshooting them is about understanding the logic of the sequence of events that should be happening and being able to trace through that to see where things have gone astray. If you are not good at or hate solving logic problems, then you might have a hard time working on these and/or find it very frustrating. Even if you are good at it, will take a little bit of time to get your head around it. Then you will be incredibly amazed at how these engineers designed these things. As others have said, once it is all working, they typically stay that way, as long as they get played.

    #12 8 years ago
    Quoted from rosh:

    find it very frustrating. Even if you are good at it

    pinball repair in a nutshell

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