Word.

I think this is actually becoming ridiculous. Maybe with the way some pins have skyrocketed in the past year (AFM, Im looking at you) People are wanting/expecting their machines to do the same or at least ride a little in their wake.

Im sorry, your 'Real nice!' Indiana Jones is not worth $5500 if its got fade on both sides of the cabinet.

You clearcoated your playfield????? Still doesn't mean your 3-4K machine is now worth 2 grand more.

As much as people hate it when threads get jacked, to paraphrase The Joker, 'This hobby deserves a better class of price police'.

If we don't call people out on their ridiculousness, we won't be able to slow it.

Pinball machines are limited guys. There are only 3K of many titles made. If we slap an extra few thousand on even a dozen machines, thats a price increase.

You see new guys in this hobby (me included, Iv only been doing this a year) always saying they will never be able to afford a Monster Bash or a MM, Soon the prices on these machines are going to make them say this about the hobby across the board.

/end rant

its a sellers market.... blah blah.. It only matters if goof balls keep paying these prices to keep the perceived value up there.. I for one have the means to purchase high ticket items but still find myself going to Costco to buy the $1.68 milk instead of paying $3.99 at the grocery store.

I cant justify spending over a certain $ for certain games, its just not good sense.

Have you ever torn a play field completely down and clear coated it?

I'm with you on the prices though a Clear Coated CQ game with a Clear Coated PF is going to easily add $2K to the price. If you do it your self it is probably a good 100 labor hours plus having a professional clear the PF.

this +1

Unreasonable priced machines sit

Price is all about perception and willingness to pay. As a noob to the hobby, it sucks that pin prices are so high. With the market where it is, I have to decide whether I want to throw down some dough to partake or not. To the dismay of my wife, I choose to play. That being said, T2 at $3,800 is crazy. And LOTR is overrated (ha!)

Perfect example. Saw a Bally Skateball on CL for $2000. PQ btw nothing special. Sold mine for $700 a year and a half ago and was happy to get it

People are asking, not selling at 2-3X value. Pins are selling for current market prices (though those valueations are inflated by at least 50% IMO) Time will tell if prices return to sanity or this is the way of the pin world. I'm dealing with it by holding on to my "A" titles and getting my new blood fix with B-C titles and older EM games that can still be had at reasonable prices. New Stern prices are over the top given the poor quality. Unfortunately JJPs entry into the market and high bar pricing has had an updraft effect on new pins. I'm hoping JJPs WoZ quality when it's in consumers hands will make people realize they are paying way too much for the new Sterns and those prices will come back to earth.

Sorry...I think. $5,000 for an LE and $3,800 for a regular NIB is plenty. VERY tough to justify that $7,500 price tag for any machine....and I agree with stevedave, I also have the means...but it would have to be something REALLY special to get me to pay $10,000 for a machine! (Forbidden Planet or Day the Earth Stood Still, maybe)

gorteye.gif

The two classic '50s sci-fi movies. Just great. I have both movie posters in my game room.

Sure, very tough....but where is williams? Oh yeah, out of business

Are you saying machines have to be $7,500 for the company to stay in business?
I guess if Pinball catches on again and more people (and locations) buy them, prices should come down....I hope!

And, yes, I like the Classic Stuff! (room #2 of 6 full of stuff)

Picture_021.jpg

Not out of business, just out of the pinball business.
They even have a WOZ to put next to your WOZ.

http://www.wms.com/Pages/default.aspx

Very cool display! There's just something about the classics...

There really are not many people trying (trying means failing) to sell pins for 2x/3x market price.
They make the other market prices look reasonable.

I know! All they had to do was re-make Day the Earth Stood Still the right way. Keep the same situation that made it a classic and just update the effects, and, of course, color. Why do they feel a "reimagining" of the film is needed. If that's the case...just leave the original alone and move on to an original theme. There are thousands and thousands of fantastic sci-fi books that have not been made yet....oops, sorry!...getting long winded here...

movie.gif

Unfortunately, small runs of pins cost more to make than big runs. If you can buy a Widget for $1.00 but 10 Widgets for $5.00 but you'll never need more than 2, you'll just buy the 2 for $2.00. When you add other Widgets, the price is higher. Unless there's a demand for 5,000+ games again, prices will be higher. Trust me, I agree, I still remember paying $400 for Doctor Who and $1600 for TAF.

The BBBs that Gene sold for $4500 cost him $6500 to produce (he said). Some of that was poor money management, but still they are VERY expensive to produce in low quantities.

Got ya!

Why do people not realize this fact. There is no true value of anything. Sure you can have a "fair market price" in mind, but that doesn't mean its worth that. Anything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. May be more or less than you had in mind, but it is what it is. If something is priced "high" then chances are it sits for awhile or they don't get their asking price.

I think this is an example of the "exception which proves the rule" fallacy. Just because someone throws a BSD in a casket and charges $4500 for it doesn't mean everyone else is selling BSD's for that amount. There are plenty of deals around. But like any hobby or industry, if you "want it now", you're going to pay through the nose. The key is to be patient.

Today I'm going to pick up a game for $350, that averaged for sale on eBay at over $1100. Yesterday I turned down a Pinbot for ~$600. There are deals. You have to be patient.

On the other hand Pinball machines break down a lot and then sit,
a game thats not working is always worth less and if you have talent........

Logically they DO realize the facts of a free market. Emotionally "they" are unwilling to be patient

That's the truth!...ask my tech!

I think its feeding itself.
Example= I sell something I need to make enough to buy something I want.
I have to jack my price to cover enough to get something else.

So If my LOTR should be 4k and a SM should be 5k...but the SM is 6k that makes my LOTR 5k.

I think the name of this topic is wrong. It should be "There are so many people asking..." not "selling". Big difference.

Then you're not in the market for a nib pin. The folks making them have every right to charge what they want. Because what you think is a fair price is irrelevant. The person selling them decides the price. If they sell at those prices then that's what they are worth. If they don't sell then the price was too high.

A little bit of cabinet fade on the side that sits sandwiches in between other pins and you cannot even see it doesn't ruin the whole value of the machine. Yes, there are ij out there that are selling for $5500 with some minor fade. Selling - not just being listed.

And price police have no impact on the prices. Supply / demand does. If something is listed too high then it won't sell. It's really that simple. Price police just sound like a bunch if cry babies that can't afford a pin.

I'm just as upset as the next guy about what's happening with pin prices, but the bottom line is that prices are going to go where they are going to go. It's Economics 101. A pinball machine doesn't have some kind of magical intrinsic value which makes it worth x amount of dollars. It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it, period. If enough people start paying $8,000 for a faded IJ, then guess what, faded IJs are officially worth $8K.

Reminds me of discussions gone by.....
Why is MM higher than AFM when its the same game.

How about why is a MM worth as much as putting a hottub and patio combined in your backyard? Seems a little extreme no?

To each their own. The 1%ers will take over the world one pinball at a time

Funny you say that.
I just sold a BR for $2100 ...Thats halfway to a xmen pro or???

New 50inch TV with nice sound system - New shotgun -
And still have 1k in my pocket...tough call.

Funny how we justify costs on toys.

down with the 99%

like my uncle mitt always says

UncleMitt.jpg

I like your uncle.

True dat!

I think the best we can do is let these pins sit. Don't even send them low balls, it just makes them hungrier.

Ya'll can let them sit.

If I find one I want, for a price I am willing to pay, I'll cough up the dough.

As it's been said before, in one of the other 2 million "price bubble" threads.... This happens everywhere, from guns to cars. When Obama was elected, I made a killing selling off my AR-15's, and re-bought brand new ones 2 years later for half the price.

Pins may never come back down, but it's all part of the fun isn't it?

And if the price just stays the same there are very few items you can buy, use for 3 months, and then resell for the same price.

pretty much sums up my feelings. tired of the tron pro you bought last year? sell it and pick-up a quick grand.

I have seen people whine for 5 years. Prices keep going up during this time for certain machines, due to demand, restored, huo, limited edition, whatever. You can't stop supply and demand. A few guys now say that they can't or won't buy, but what it going on with prices? Up. For every whiner, there is maybe 2 new people getting in, wanting a machine in their house. Then, if they can, they get another. Just the way it is, right now. Won't last forever.

The train left the station. You can look back, whine, and miss out on some fun, or see if you can catch the train, get on, and see where it takes you 2-3 years out, maybe even 10-20 years out.

If you want a machine, look for a decent deal near you, buy it, play it and have fun. Doubt if you will ever lose ALL of your money. You might play for a year or two free, or possible make a little.

Good luck! Great hobby currently.

Buyers control the prices. As long as there are buyers prices will rise. Sellers are not sellers without buyers...

If there's one thing humans do really well, it's complain.

Too bad there's not an Olympic medal available in that.

Don't worry though. Pinball prices will go back down. Especially once holodeck technology comes out.

It's not well known but a secret society actually controls pinball prices.

BWHAAAA!

Well like my dear old pappy always used to say if can't beat em, join em.

I know the organization, it's called the Stupid Sellers who Price Check on eBay.

here is a bay area pinball grading expert! check out this ad you can see dents and missing paint from this far away pic
sfbay.craigslist.org link
this is why thev market will fall because people are going crazy with pricing

^^^^

Love how the seller mentions that it was in Rocky II.

There are a limited amount of games that are pulling those prices and that's it. All the other dreamer's games are collecting dust waiting for that one idiot with a ton of extra money. The market jumped recently on DMD games, but I'm seeing as many people quitting the hobby as there are getting into it. The best thing to do is let them sit, educate yourself in pinball values and make educated decisions when purchasing. If someone pays $5500 for a T2, that's their problem I see them in nice shape for around $1200-1500.

The prices being asked for the "A" games seems to have really jumped a lot even in the last 1-2 years. Not sure if "B" and lower rated games prices have changed much or not?