Lots of women do not use any gender indicators online as a method to avoid harassment. This is not a rare thing, sadly.

you are a bad person and you should feel bad.

*headdesk.gif*

You know what the best thing men can do if they want women in pinball? Call out ALL of the bullshit behaviour, even if it's just trying to be mildly cheeky or irreverent.
this culture of misogyny isn't women's responsibility to fix. They can contribute, but it will be men who learn the lessons of the past who need to have the biggest effect here.

"political correctness" == "you are being an asshole and now facing repercussions for it." grow the hell up.

yes, because "misandry" is a bullshit idea. That is why everyone either doesn't know what it means, or makes fun of it.

I am *shocked* so many people downvoted this. I should write down the list of belligerent a-holes for future reference.

*phew* glad your wife is over that whole feminism thing, best you tell all other women they should get over it ASAP!

Give me some examples of what lessons men could learn from the past on Pinside; that would apply here.

double post

Would it not be proper to post a pic of the doublemint twins?

I'll post them.

I don't give a ship what anyone thinks.

Perhaps we can lighten the mood with some Helen Reddy.

Here's one lesson that men could have learned from Pinside's past: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nor-cal-pinheads-thread/page/26

Jonnyo made a poster to promote an event, the poster had some sex jokes which on the surface seemed similar to the jokes in a poster for an all-girl tournament ("No balls required", "Move it Sausage", "BOOBS" and "BYOBoobs"), and there was backlash from some people who were offended. I don't for a second think Jonnyo's a bad guy or meant to be divisive, it's just that like millions of guys (everywhere and on pinside) I don't think he fundamentally understood why this sort of talk is a problem. So I tried to explain it in a way that might help guys understand it better:

I like to think that helped change the perspective of at least a *few* people...

This thead does not fempute!

im more of a carol king fan

Flynnibus - YOU just don't get it and attempting to explain yourself slowly does not hide the flaw in your arguments. I've seen that whole "smile" thing and it is a guy thing done to somehow interact with a pretty woman when he wouldn't normally be welcome to. A woman doesn't have to smile just to please you and in this instance, it was obvious the comment was unwanted. So, argue that people are "too PC," but that does not excuse harassing behavior. Lemme guess, you now have to drop your favorite pick up line - "smile girl!" Dont worry, it never worked anyway.

Keep your head up, blondetall.

RobT knows what's up.

I could get fired if one of my team members tells me they were harassed and I don't do anything about it.

People have different thresholds of what they consider harassment, but it takes a special kind of asshole to tell someone complaining of harassment that what they are experiencing isn't, or to downplay the situation.

Also, the unfortunate reality is if one of my skilled, salaried team members complained against a lower skilled hourly wage earner repeatedly, it would be a no-brainer for me to just get rid of the hourly worker. Mediocre hourly staff are a dime a dozen, skilled resources that take months of training are not.

Nope....unlike you I have no need to tell others what to do or how to act.

When did Pinside turn into an afternoon talk show? When i first joined PINSIDE, there was tons of tech posts. Guides on how to fix, walkthroughs or restores, and troubleshooting posts. Now i have to search to even find anything usefull.
Could we not get back to the matter at hand, Pinball? We dont need all the BS, Drama, and etc...
I dont like PC, and I think people get out of hand with it. But, there should be some sort of decorum that should be observerd (being respectful, and making this a helpfull place).

Ok..I said my peace.. Now im guilty as well.

Agree. Back to pinball.

Great visual example to help illustrate the issue!
- If this is someone you know, and you're capturing a point in time sharing your friend playing pinball, great!

- If this is someone you don't know and you lucked into a long legged butt shot of a stranger where you high-fived your buddies snickering behind her and then sharing without her consent, creepy & offensive!

Many of you might say "What's the difference? Same picture, hot girl playing pinball!" But to the girl, it's not. Does that help anyone?

If this was someone I didn't know, I'd be the creepiest dude on the planet. Yuck. No, that's my GF Brenda. She totally loves pinball and geeking out with me. And there is a HUGE difference sharing a photo of someone you know playing pinball and a total stranger.

IMG_2297.jpg

Just wow.

Huh I'm a little confussed. On page 2 of this thread there's a picture of Kaneda's girlfriend bending over a pinball machine showing her *ss. So because it serves the purpose of this thread it's ok , yet if it was in a thread called 'Hot Women of pinball' it wouldn't be? Can you say double standard!?! Maybe some of us would like to decide for ourselves what's offensive, instead of having others make that choice for us. You may embrace censorship - I don't...........

I didn't make a poster, just a few in-kind jokes similar to the ones in their poster.

And yes, it was a double standard and I stand by everything I said. You do not get a free pass because you claim some sort of victim status. I'm filipino, mexican,and a quarter polish and have heard everything from jokes to active discrimination. Doesn't mean I get to make jokes at other's expense if I'm not willing to receive it in kind.

Which I am. I thought "move it sausage" was funny. What wasn't funny was when they could make a joke but not take one.

This conversation reminds me of Lewis's Law - "the comments on any article about feminism justify feminism". Or more specifically here, a corollary known as Anita's Irony - "Online discussion of sexism or misogyny quickly results in disproportionate displays of sexism and misogyny."

Being fairly new here, I hadn't had experience yet with how women are treated on this site. I have now though. A big thanks to those who are standing up and supporting the idea of treating women fairly and with respect. As for others... well, I've become educated on and familiar with the process of how to ignore people on Pinside.

No, it was messed up, along with most things regarding tournaments at the TPF. As far as I know (and I talked about it with a few of the ladies in the tournament) everyone was expecting cash prizes. When you asked any of the help if all of the tournaments had cash prizes, they said yes. As I stated before, there were a number of women that only entered the wizards tourney because it was required to enter the women's. The whole thing might have been fine if it was messaged the way Marcus and Ed are explaining it now, but it wasn't.

Besides that, the "no entry fee" excuse is crap. The organizers of that tournament walked away with thousands of dollars in entry fees in excess of what it took to organize the event.

At the end of the day, did the setup make the winners of the women's event feel like they were second-class citizens and that their tournament was less meaningful than the 12-and-under? At least for some, it did. That is the problem.

Let me get this straight, it's ok if you know the person in the pic? What if that person does not want the pic taken at all, but get you know them. Why is it automatically wrong to put up a pic of someone you don't know if they were posing for a pic? They clearly would be allowing the pic to be taken since they had posed for it.
See there are no black and white answers. It's all up to the one who decided to be offended or to not be offended.

I assume you posted this pic to showcase your friend's sweet denim cut-offs/loafer look?

OK folks...this thread is about good women in pinball. If you want to discuss which pictures are and are not appropriate to post, please open a separate thread on that. Let's keep it on topic.

I actually like that my wife is a strong woman and not a wallflower. She knows how to handle herself and she challenges me. I have dated the brainless ditz type. No thanks.

I don't get offended by much of anything, but I know when speech or content is inappropriate given the context (i.e., a pinball forum, in a thread celebrating women in pinball). That's not "being PC", it's being polite.

Thanks to cait001 for voicing some things I was already thinking.

Ummm no. Here are the OP's words:

Why do we never hear about any of it in Pinside? What is going on? Women here are just fap fodder. There are thousands and thousands of pics of nude or primarily nude women, and there are plenty of threads about "hot chixxx on the backglass", and there are hundreds of jabs about how women love shopping for purses or shoes...but this is 2015. Women are an important facet to the pinball hobby, and we are everywhere. EXCEPT Pinside. This is the only pinball arena where women are dogged on, and not just dogged on, but dogged on in such a stupid and embarrassing way. Really? You guys come to a pinball forum to share all of this weak softcore.

So the issue of pictures is relavant here. Please remove the picture of Kaneda's girlfriend on page 2. It is offensive to women.......

It is?

Sure I get to decide what's offensive. Kinda like you want to be able to decide what's offensive to me. That's only fair right. Isn't censorship fun?

<rude post snipped>

I see that you are trying to be in it for the long haul here. GLWTS!

I joined pinside to meet girls.

Holy shit! mods should keep PC out of threads just like they shut down politics left and right. This thread is so stupid death by political correctness. Such an inhumane way to die.

Perfect time to totally erase a comment . That is the type of moderation that is needed for fools of this nature. <not referencing the troll>

You are wrong.

Well I guess I'm not up on the latest political correctness run amok here in sunny California. I was dumbfounded yesterday when a received a work related email from someone that works in the University of California system and the sender felt compelled to specify his "preferred pronoun" along with his contact information. So I Google it and sure enough it's a "thing" apparently in an effort to be inclusive just in case someone identifies as gender neutral.

Quoting from the email....

Preferred pronouns: he/him/his
University of California (removed)
Martin (last name removed)
(address)
(phone)

I guess I'll need to start adding this so people won't be wringing their hands worried about how to properly address me in the future and potentially suffer from language anxiety.

Frank being on pinside is far more offensive than any chick photo or comment...

"This is the only pinball arena where women are dogged on, and not just dogged on, but dogged on in such a stupid and embarrassing way"

Pinside is tame compared to a couple other pinball arenas I frequent. Is this pick on Pinside week?

I'm not sure there is any actual **lesson** there.

So 3 people were offended and did not attend? Good, those people are probably not mature enough to be out in the wild.

I'm a Jew. There are tons of jokes at the expense of Jews on HBO shows. Even if I'm somehow offended by a joke, am I going to cancel HBO??? Of course not.

A comedian on HBO says:

=====

So I'm stuck at a wedding seated between a Rabbi and a Priest.

A 5 year old boy bends over to tie his shoe in front of us.

The Priest leans over to us and says "Wow, I'd like to screw that kid."

The Rabbi shrugs and asks "Out of what?"

======

Am I offended? Hell no.

There will always be somebody offended by something. That does not mean there is anything wrong.

The whole idea behind this thread is to segregate women from men. Which is offensive in itself.

A misunderstanding and/or poor communication doesn't make the case for discrimination. And since those who ran the event have clarified their intents on the matter it's obvious that wasn't their intent either. Clinging to it being otherwise is not a matter of fairness but of trying to prove victimhood in the face of the facts.

Women are amazing.

My mother was amazing. My wife is amazing. My daughter and her friends are amazing.

I will never fail to lend my voice to the chorus when it comes to treating women with the respect they deserve.

Pinside does not need to be sanitized or censored... People just need to act with a modicum of dignity. It's not that hard. It will not make Pinside worse, it will make it better. Community makes things better.

Don't be a dick, to anybody!! Not just women, but perhaps especially not to women.

Being rude, or caustic, or abusive is just SO easy and unoriginal. There is nothing sadder than a keyboard bully.

I love Pinball. It's why I come here.

Here's to Sarah, and Phoebe, and Kayte, and Kristin, and Guylaine, and Nat, and Kim, and Jen, and all the amazing women in pinball. The more you enjoy this hobby, the more we all will.