Then try taking about pinball rather than what terrible people men, other than you, are.

Can you explain why your definition of right is right rather than someone else's? You are being treated the same as any guy here who people disagree with.

I am glad you are enjoying your status quo.
This is absolutely my culture to change. I am a pinball addict and I love it immensely and I am determined to make pinball a better place for women in my wake.
You may not care at all, and I won't reach most of the men in this thread, but I have reached some. And more importantly is the changes we've helped make offline in our local pinball communities.
I am in this culture, and things are changing.

Zero effort? Damn, I have a lot of rude shit I could say right now.

I'm one of the only ones in here engaging you in an actual conversation in an effort to try and help, by asking you to explain it to me, and you keep doing the exact opposite.

Maybe if you met me in real life you would know, but I am not the problem. I may play coy to try to spark a discussion, but I comprehend a lot more than I let on.

Thanks for chasing me off, looks like you got a lot accomplished here.

Are you asking how do I ascertain that I am correct in believing pinball can/should be more welcoming to women? Or can you clarify?

If I decided to join a place that was not dominated by whatever group I am in, sex, religion, color, etc. I would not be the one telling them they are wrong. If I liked the place I'd continue to be part of it and give my input on the topic of whatever the group was, but the last thing I'd be doing is telling them they need to cater to me and my self perceived persecution complex.

Any of it, why is your definition of right more important than someone else's. Especially in the context of an existing dynamic that you choose to come into and tell it that it is wrong. Why should women get special treatment rather than the exact same treatment as everyone else here?

You don't get a cookie for being a decent human being, that should be the baseline.
I am a white woman. I should not get patted on the back for not saying the N word. But if I don't work towards learning and undoing the systemic racism in the worlds I interact I am helping perpetuate the same old same old.

I know this might feel frustrating for you, but this is a long process.
You are not some project that needs to be pandered to. You don't actually want change because you don't think there is any problem. You don't think you could possibly be complicit because hey you're a good guy, right?

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

OK then.

Just .... wow.
Maybe I'll come back to this thread if I ever have more energy.
Just wow.

I've really been trying to keep a lot of my opinions to myself on this thread, but as another woman in pinball it may be time to chime in.

This thread is leaning towards the idea that pinball as a hobby isn't opening to women. It may be the website that hasn't been welcoming for you, but I feel like saying that about pinball in general is, in my experience, the exact opposite.

I've yet to meet a person I couldn't get along with at events, league nights, or open houses. In general, i've found people extremely welcoming, especially of women. I'd like to see more ladies involved in pinball, and it seems like most of our local group would like to as well. Maybe my experiences are unique but I've only received a warm welcome (and help when needed!).

While there are things posted on here that make me roll my eyes, I find this no worse than most other websites. I can't change people. I can't realistically make people like what I like. I am sad that we're potentially losing people because of a website, but I feel like this hobby is beyond friendly in person. This isn't the only hobby forum to be less welcoming than the hobbyists themselves. The internet never brings out the best in people.

Also, what's with all the people saying "oh Molly is back at pinside with a diff account"?
Please let me know that someone didn't think I was some fake account...

Some people, gasp, don't WANT outsiders coming in and changing their culture.

This "dude" down votes you because this "dude" doesn't agree with what you are saying for the most part.

I have a wife and three girls, who "speak up" all the time and I really enjoy the times that we all actually get to play a little pinball together. It's fun times.

When family and friends come over, there is no sign that says "no women allowed" on the pinball machines. In fact, just the opposite, I try and encourage everybody getting involved, playing and having a good time is what its all about.

The more people, men and women, that join in on pinball, the better. It's a great hobby for everyone. And no, you can't change the way people are, to have them conform the to way you want it to be.

Speak up, speak out and keep up the crusade, it's a good thing, just don't take it personal when people don't agree with what you are saying. That's all a down vote means.

I think it is absolutely the bestest thing in the world in person (in most) cases, i think much of this discussions just centers around pinside I guess?
Nothing beats playing pinball with friends and family.
The OP had noted the thread of how pinside oft seen as a point of first major exposure for those getting in to the hobby, socially and online.
And yes, the internet is the WORST with stuff like this.

It really is. It's amazing how in person people are so much more willing to be considerate and welcoming. I think we're fundamentally social animals, but somehow some critical aspect of that socialness gets short circuited when we're not face to face, and it makes it so much easier for people to treat another person with the kind of disdain and contempt that greets anyone here that says "hey you know when you say that kind of thing, it makes women want to leave..."

Man or woman, you're being a jerk.

I know racism, I know homophobia, and I know misogyny. I don't approve of any of them.

If you push away all of your allies, all you will have left are enemies. Sleep on it.

Haha I post about lots of things. You're the weirdo who felt the need to start a fake account for the sole purpose of posting solely about a single issue. Look in a mirror some time.

Odd, I just don't give a rats ass either way, my friends are still my friends, men or women.

Steve

Are there any anatomical differences in women that would exclude women from pinball?

I'm asking for a friend.

Also note the change of tone and use of emoticon when she was responding to a woman... A little self reflection may help her advance her cause...

Women are light years ahead of minorities in this hobby. If this thread was titled "there are a lot of good black people in this hobby" i am willing to bet it gets locked before it gets past page 1.

I have zero idea why there are even womens divisions in pinball. I think that is more negative than anything. why the need to separate the sexes?

Probably just because the men smell so bad that it would be very unwelcoming to allow women to partake of their essence.

Well all things being equal, there are plenty of women that smell as bad as men... Hygiene doesnt discriminate.

You still have an open invitation to my house, you and your husband both. Next time you are in Charleston to visit family, message me so we can all get together! It was great to see you guys again at SFGE.

You left out:

"Ugh."

"i can't even"

"wrong side of history"

:^)

Sure, but why do PINBALL men always smell so bad?

I go to tons of shows for geeky stuff, audiophile, modeling, photography, comicon, numismatic, and I might smell two bad smelling people out of hundreds. But at a pinball show 80% of the men smell like they are wearing 10 day old clothes and have not showered in a month.

How hard can it be to shower (with soap) THAT VERY MORNING, and then put on ALL fresh clothes ?

Some of what is going on in this thread explained:

Outside of everything else, I've been to one big pinball show, and this is what struck me hardest, oddly enough. What IS it with you people and showering anyway?

I literally showered 3 times a day at SFGE because I was so overly paranoid about being the fat smelly guy.

I will say the only bad smell I encountered at SFGE, either year, was someone crop dusting as they walk by.

C'mon Vid, you're not a rookie... If you shit your pants during a show, no one lines up behind you to play. You get to play all the machines you want without interruption....

This isn't a fake account, it's my account, I just set it up. I've lurked here as a guest a long time.I've finally decided to say something since the way this place has been going the last six months in particular is dismal. You know nothing of me, you can take back your baseless assumptions.

Don't go there, molly will think is a women's hygiene remark

My gift is my curse... i dislike everyone equally

I think I have a metaphor that might help us talk about this. Let's say someone started posting spoilers for movies and TV shows, in the middle of a pinball thread. A few people call him out on that behavior, and the thread isn't about pinball any more. "What's the problem?", he asks - "Thus is just the way I talk, by sharing movie plots. You have no right to be offended by it." Then let's say (in this hypothetical scenario) that 20 people jump in to defend the guy posting spoilers, because "if you haven't seen those movies by now, you're probably a loser anyway." Then they join in and post spoilers too, sometimes even for current movies, just to stick it to the people who complained.

Who are the jerks are in this scenario? Is it the people violating the basic social contract that you don't share spoilers on a forum with 5,000 active users? Or, is it the people complaining that they can't use the site anymore, because they never know when someone is going to ruin a movie for them?

We're maybe 40/30/30 conservative/progressive/independent here, but the site doesn't fall apart. Why? Because 99% of us realize that politics are poison, and we avoid bringing that shit up. Moderators handle the other 1%. So why is THIS so hard? Are the guys here being deliberately provocative, or are we (guys) really that clueless about what annoys women? Note that I said "annoys", not "offends".

I think if the worst 10% of the posts went away, things would improve a lot. This is just my opinion, but I think the tit pics are not the biggest part of the problem; they just happen to be the easiest to monitor and ban. The ugly conversations are much worse.

It's not the best metaphor because we have a little tilt button that marks things NSFW.

If you are not logged in, you don't see those at all.

If you are logged in, you have to click those posts to read them.

-

So if somebody started posting spoilers, I imagine that I would just tag them NSFW.

BTW: Thor dies and the new Thor comes back as a girl.....tag me bitches.

But we can only tilt images, right? Maybe we do need a way to tilt a post (with or without pics). At least then the poster knows when he's being annoying.

My point is, when someone says "Democrats are dumb", they get a thread eject. But if someone says "I hate saggy tits", everyone is expected to roll with it. Am I right? Or do we have a basic contract as Pinsiders that we don't talk about genitals or breasts unless it's related to some pinball art?

Picture removed by mod.

^^^ great example. The text in the picture is obnoxious; the pic by itself probably would have been fine.

Wow. I finally get to the end of this thread and this un-funny **FRIEND** is my finale,...really ?

Fuckin Slayer.
That is all.

Agreed. The pic is in line with the character, but the text is disparaging to women for sure.

This probably would have worked better.

Kinda funny, none of my 3 girls wanted to even come in to SFGE. They wanted to get pedicures.
But.....after they heard how much fun Dad was having on Mustang, they wanted to play, so we did, and had a blast. Hooked's machine was just beautiful.
Met some kick ass Pinsiders including Wolfmarsh. Had a GREAT time partying with you and the bros.

I'm sure the feature could be added, if spoilers became a problem.

Perfect example!

So we flag it.

It does not display for general visitors that don't have an account.

It does not display for Pinsiders who have NSFW crap set to not automatically display.

Robin knows what he is doing.

U mad bro?

Can we please just ban asshats like this? Would go a long way in making this community a better place for everyone.

Damn now that was funny! Made all of this bullshit worth reading. Thanks for the laugh man

Only at assholes that loaf in the fast lane.

Can we please just grow a sense of humour? That would go a long way in making this community a better place for everyone.

Your welcome. Though I wish I could say I had thought of this joke. Saw Vids comment about Thor and was immediately reminded of this image and the many more like it that were floating around Facebook when the announcement was made.

Have a good day/night/morning/afternoon!