(Topic ID: 47078)

Theme vs Quality *JJP vs Stern*

By theBRAIN

11 years ago


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  • 71 posts
  • 41 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by whisper
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 71 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
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    #51 11 years ago

    I believe the OP is stating that JJPs new pin appears to be better quality parts than Stern, and not that Stern is making poor quality pins. So far, WOZ looks like an amazing pin, quality/innovation wise. Bummer theme though.
    To your question, you need both to make a truly great pin. Having only one of those ingredients will result in one of 1000s of pins rarely talked about on Pinside, or sought after for very long.
    My prediction: WOZ will be available for sale second hand for $5000 or so for a long, long, time.
    As soon as it's not the absolute latest/greatest(?) pin, it's going to be looked at for what it really is:
    A horribly themed pin, in a nice wrapper.
    We'll all enjoy playing it at a friend's place for a few games at a time, but few will want it taking up valuable pinball real estate in their home, at least with the sound on.
    I don't mind being wrong on this. If you've pre-ordered WOZ, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
    It's better for us all if this turns out to be a masterpiece.

    #52 11 years ago
    Quoted from Sunfox:

    There's one major flaw in your argument: you assume that everyone loves what you love. You love chocolate, therefore the world does not need strawberry. You won't even consider allowing anyone else to eat strawberry, because chocolate rules and that's the end of that.

    Sunfox I am not assuming everyone one loves what I love. While I can appreciate Jack's efforts to attract kid's and women to pinball with a theme like WOZ, when you consider the demographic of collectors that buy pinball machines, I have a hunch that WOZ would be a poor choice for a theme to excite most guys, but maybe I am wrong. Not everyone is a fan of every Stern theme choice either but they seem to be making more of an effort with theme that targets this demographic and Jack is trying to make more of an effort into build quality which is also important and appreciated IMHO.

    What is more important to you the theme or build quality? Pick one.

    #53 11 years ago
    Quoted from theBRAIN:

    What is more important to you the theme or build quality? Pick one.

    I think maybe if you submit this sentence eight or nine more times everyone will end up agreeing with you.

    #54 11 years ago
    Quoted from shlockdoc:

    All my Audis have kicked ass trouble free.

    Audis rock , Had 250,000 miles on my S6 when I sold it to my friend , It needed a clutch at that point ,the throwout bearing was shot , But that's an easy fix . I just needed a car that got better MPGs . I had the '95 with the 5 cyl Turbo , Best car I've ever owned by far .

    #55 11 years ago
    Quoted from theBRAIN:

    Sunfox I am not assuming everyone one loves what I love. While I can appreciate Jack's efforts to attract kid's and women to pinball with a theme like WOZ, when you consider the demographic of collectors that buy pinball machines, I have a hunch that WOZ would be a poor choice for a theme to excite most guys, but maybe I am wrong. Not everyone is a fan of every Stern theme choice either but they seem to be making more of an effort with theme that targets this demographic and Jack is trying to make more of an effort into build quality which is also important and appreciated IMHO.
    What is more important to you the theme or build quality? Pick one.

    Having owned a retail front store selling pinball I can tell you theme is about 80% of the sale and the rest is service / support / quality. You can build a tank but if the theme is not there then a very difficult sale.

    #56 11 years ago

    I own 15 sterns and enjoy playing each one. Plan on buying the new Star Trek when made. Have WOZ arriving hopefully in the next 60 days. Without question it's a higher quality pin. Seeing it in person is all it takes. This is a hobby, I hope they all improve.

    #57 11 years ago
    Quoted from theBRAIN:

    Sunfox I am not assuming everyone one loves what I love. While I can appreciate Jack's efforts to attract kid's and women to pinball with a theme like WOZ, when you consider the demographic of collectors that buy pinball machines, I have a hunch that WOZ would be a poor choice for a theme to excite most guys, but maybe I am wrong.

    If those guys have wives, girlfriends, children, what excites them can (should?) be just as important as what excites themselves.

    Not everyone is a fan of every Stern theme choice either but they seem to be making more of an effort with theme that targets this demographic and Jack is trying to make more of an effort into build quality which is also important and appreciated IMHO.

    I'm not certain that selling the same basic two or three themes over and over again is really "making an effort". It's selling what they know to work. However, one could also argue that Stern created the current demographic of rock bands and superhero movies in the first place by only selling those two items (and the few times they've strayed, going with such bizarre themes as to sabotage themselves. I mean WOF? Even the designer hated that one!)

    #58 11 years ago
    Quoted from trilogybeer:

    Audis rock , Had 250,000 miles on my S6 when I sold it to my friend , It needed a clutch at that point ,the throwout bearing was shot , But that's an easy fix . I just needed a car that got better MPGs . I had the '95 with the 5 cyl Turbo , Best car I've ever owned by far .

    To you and shlockdoc, Mine have all kicked ass as well. My '87 5000CSQ (5 cyl turbo) had 286,000 miles when I donated it to a charity motors association (I drove it there) My '81 4000 5+5 had 225,000 when an inner CV joint imploded and since the entire undercarriage was rusting away, I donated it as well.

    My A8L is running well with 190,000 miles on the clock and I expect it to hit 350,000 miles before it gets donated.

    My comment stems from times when you need the car and something goes wrong, as it will, it is best to have a spare car once the mileage gets above 180,000 or so miles. Example, on my A8L just prior to a planned long trip, the air suspension compressor failed. A nice $1000.00 part. Since it failed around Christmas, my time was at a premium and I had to pay to have it installed. A total of $1500.00, I had an air strut fail a few years later when I was in Chicago. I limped it home with no front suspension. Then it was a $1700.00 part. Plus the time/labor to install it. Awesome, complicated cars.

    And the tradition continues. Ballykid now has a TT. Took him a year to find a particular color, with a stick and Quattro. He refuses to have a [expletive deleted by Mr. Bally] automatic.

    Here's a repost to show what fun they are in case you did not see this one a couple of months ago:

    2 years later
    #59 8 years ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    My prediction: WOZ will be available for sale second hand for $5000 or so for a long, long, time.
    As soon as it's not the absolute latest/greatest(?) pin, it's going to be looked at for what it really is:
    A horribly themed pin, in a nice wrapper.

    Quoted from Chambahz:

    I don't mind being wrong on this.

    Two and a half years later and they are still selling NIB at a higher price. Used prices are holding steady around $7-7.5K.

    It's a divisively themed pin in a nice wrapper with exceptional code and solid support.

    #60 8 years ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Two and a half years later and they are still selling NIB at a higher price. Used prices are holding steady around $7-7.5K.
    It's a divisively themed pin in a nice wrapper with exceptional code and solid support.

    One just sold for sub 5K

    #61 8 years ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Two and a half years later and they are still selling NIB at a higher price. Used prices are holding steady around $7-7.5K.
    It's a divisively themed pin in a nice wrapper with exceptional code and solid support.

    Yeah, you're absolutely right. Not only are they holding their value, but with the exchange rate being what it is, they all seem to have increased in value here in Canada, even after a couple years of being played.
    Although the title isn't for everyone, the game still seems very popular with many supporters.

    I am glad to be wrong on this as it's just better for everyone if JJP can continue making pinball machines!

    #62 8 years ago

    If newer sterns are low quality, then I personally think we're all gonna be OK. I think quality is good on both brands, but can feel a strong build in woz. I love how the themes, feel, and builds are very different between jjp and stern. It is only an advantage for all of us to have choices. I only can complain about the prices. Seriously, $9500 nib is insane. I want a woz bad, but I can get 2 nib stern pro's for that. So yeah, I look at theme first, then gameplay, then price. Since to me quality is good with both companies, theme and price matter. Lastly, remember jjp is still in infancy stage as a company. It takes a couple attempts to work out the kinks, and so I would say the first two attempts so far are both a really good start in quality, themes, play, but not price.

    #63 8 years ago

    I don't get the high quality build statement, I see just as many woz tech threads as stern tech threads. It's just nature of the beast, build it as best you can but shit still breaks.

    #64 8 years ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Two and a half years later and they are still selling NIB at a higher price. Used prices are holding steady around $7-7.5K.
    It's a divisively themed pin in a nice wrapper with exceptional code and solid support.

    Hardly a valid comparison. JJP has been able to mass produce one machine, Of course the resale value will stay high on it. Once they have 8-10 machines on the market let's see what WoZ is selling for.

    #65 8 years ago

    WOZ fans as children:

    #66 8 years ago

    I'm not really a fan of any of the themes these companies have come up with lately. Therefore whatever quality they instill doesn't really matter to me.

    #67 8 years ago
    Quoted from smassa:

    Hardly a valid comparison. JJP has been able to mass produce one machine, Of course the resale value will stay high on it. Once they have 8-10 machines on the market let's see what WoZ is selling for.

    What was I comparing?

    I just responded to the earlier thread that inaccurately predicted Woz's future value 2.5 years ago.

    In several more years when/if JJP has 8-10 games, we can see what they are selling for, but I'm not making a prediction.

    #68 8 years ago
    Quoted from Allibaster:

    WOZ fans as children:
    » YouTube video

    Haha pathetic homophobe using gay as a pejorative in 2015. Way to go. ok thanks for the attempted burn, grandpa. Good luck on your next poop.

    #69 8 years ago

    2.5 years ago I didn't really care for the "game-play" on WOZ......now? Well I probably like it a little more than I did then.....it's a beautiful looking game and still feels like a tank......but I still don't really like the "game-play" and it's no closer to being on my want list.....or even on my radar. Theme is a part of that.....but more so how it plays.

    #70 8 years ago
    Quoted from konghusker:

    If newer sterns are low quality, then I personally think we're all gonna be OK. I think quality is good on both brands, but can feel a strong build in woz. I love how the themes, feel, and builds are very different between jjp and stern. It is only an advantage for all of us to have choices. I only can complain about the prices. Seriously, $9500 nib is insane. I want a woz bad, but I can get 2 nib stern pro's for that. So yeah, I look at theme first, then gameplay, then price. Since to me quality is good with both companies, theme and price matter. Lastly, remember jjp is still in infancy stage as a company. It takes a couple attempts to work out the kinks, and so I would say the first two attempts so far are both a really good start in quality, themes, play, but not price.

    I think JJP intent was always to build a higher cost pin with lots of bells and whistles. His target audience was never the $5k buyer.

    #71 8 years ago

    Game play before theme, my favourite games are definitely not chosen because of theme, example like Jonny mnemonic, wouldn't think much of it if u were going theme, movie was a shocker, but great pinball.

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