(Topic ID: 258212)

Theme Exhaustion

By DracAttack666

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Rarehero
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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Topic poll

“Right?”

  • I make a valid point 7 votes
    20%
  • I should shut up 28 votes
    80%

(35 votes)

#1 4 years ago

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, but it needs to be reiterated nonetheless:

I'm tired of recycled themes made from a movie, TV show, hard rock band, or any other franchise made for a built-in audience. It's been a consistent theme for 30 years and the industry needs to evolve past this.

Granted, you can't go to the theater or turn on a TV these days without this same problem, but that's a separate issue & pinball has been this way since the 90s. This isn't to say I don't like the games themselves, mind you. The Munsters is fun, but, on the other hand, why the Munsters? Who was demanding a Munsters game? With the current resurgence of pinball in pop culture, there comes a new generation of younger people (myself included) who may have seen the Munsters, but definitely don't care about it. Even younger people may not know who or what the Munsters are at all.

A good example of a properly utilized theme would be the American Pinball game Oktoberfest. It's a recognizable theme, but still generic enough to where you can make it a unique play with an original design. That's a great game!

To their credit, Stern has straddled the fence on some of the newer games like Black Knight: Sword of Rage (a sequel) & Elvira's House of Horrors (sequel / character based). These games work because to the average person who doesn't play pinball they would assume these themes to be original & not the third installment of a previous game. To them, a Black Knight would just be a Black Knight.

Don't get me wrong, when they putt'em out, I'll play'em. However, the industry needs to pick themes more holistically. Instead of several games featuring several, specific hard rock bands, make one game that encompasses the theme of hard rock as a whole, like Heavy Metal Meltdown (1987).

Again, I will still keep playing AC/DC because it's a fun game, but I much prefer Bon Scott as a singer for that band and will therefore always pick his songs/modes over Brian Johnson's every single time. This is also the problem with built-in audiences because in every built in audience, there are also built-in detractors.

Still waiting on that Van Halen game.

#2 4 years ago
Quoted from DracAttack666:

I'm tired of recycled themes made from a movie, TV show, hard rock band, or any other franchise made for a built-in audience. It's been a consistent theme for 30 years and the industry needs to evolve past this.

The issue is "the industry" in this equation are the buyers, they are the ones that push for the themes so much, so the biz has to follow them. Just read how many people are going crazy of TMNT for god sakes.

That's the home market, john Q just dropping a quarter in is for sure drawn to a theme.

#3 4 years ago

Themes are recognizable, and sell.

16
#4 4 years ago

The fact you are waiting on a Van Halen game negates your original premise. Van Halen would cater to another old rocker niche Market.

#5 4 years ago

Agree, but everyone says they want original themes, but they don’t buy them. So talk to your friends!

#6 4 years ago

Yeah if you want to see how wrong you are check the hype for the most recent games like Rick and Morty vs a nonlicensed game like dialed in. Buyer reaction and hype is not even close.

Basically a pinball company should do original themes if they want to struggle and close up. Period. I don't know why this even needs to be explained.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Agree, but everyone says they want original themes, but they don’t buy them. So talk to your friends!

That and some of the best "original" themes were just obvious copies of actual themes. I guess that saved us from a Monty Python pin and a Caddyshack pin, to name a few.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from newovad:

That and some of the best "original" themes were just obvious copies of actual themes. I guess that saved us from a Monty Python pin and a Caddyshack pin, to name a few.

Haha very good point!

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from DracAttack666:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, but it needs to be reiterated nonetheless:
I'm tired of recycled themes made from a movie, TV show, hard rock band, or any other franchise made for a built-in audience. It's been a consistent theme for 30 years and the industry needs to evolve past this.

Good news for you: Punny Factory is essentially un-themed:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/another-new-pin-reveal-12-16-punny-factory

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from DracAttack666:

I'm tired of recycled themes made from a movie, TV show, hard rock band, or any other franchise made for a built-in audience. It's been a consistent theme for 30 years and the industry needs to evolve past this.

This has been debated & explained for decades, but since you’re new, here we go:

Pinball ONLY still exists as an industry today because the right hyped up themes will INSTANTLY sell games unseen/unplayed. The 80s and 90s was a different world, arcades were relevant, and you could walk into an arcade and be surprised and delighted by something non-licensed.

The arcade died, and pinball sales to home collectors became far more important. People like you cry for original themes...but then don’t buy them. Did you buy AMH, Dialed In, Houdini, and Oktoberfest? With original themes, buyers say “I’ll wait and play it first”...with a nostalgic license people love, buyers say “I WANT IT NOW”.

That’s just the reality & why it will never stop.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

This has been debated & explained for decades, but since you’re new, here we go:
Pinball ONLY still exists as an industry today because the right hyped up themes will INSTANTLY sell games unseen/unplayed. The 80s and 90s was a different world, arcades were relevant, and you could walk into an arcade and be surprised and delighted by something non-licenses.
The arcade died, and pinball sales to home collectors became far more important. People like you cry for original themes...but then don’t buy them. Did you buy AMH, Dialed In, Houdini, and Oktoberfest? With original themes, buyers say “I’ll wait and play it first”...with a nostalgic license people love, buyers say “I WANT IT NOW”.
That’s just the reality & why it will never stop.

Hey, -I- bought DI and Houdini, and soon Oktoberfest. But the games I will never sell are the themed ones... MB, TZ, etc

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

This has been debated & explained for decades, but since you’re new, here we go:
Pinball ONLY still exists as an industry today because the right hyped up themes will INSTANTLY sell games unseen/unplayed. The 80s and 90s was a different world, arcades were relevant, and you could walk into an arcade and be surprised and delighted by something non-licenses.
The arcade died, and pinball sales to home collectors became far more important. People like you cry for original themes...but then don’t buy them. Did you buy AMH, Dialed In, Houdini, and Oktoberfest? With original themes, buyers say “I’ll wait and play it first”...with a nostalgic license people love, buyers say “I WANT IT NOW”.
That’s just the reality & why it will never stop.

Well, there's my answer. Thank you. Demographics will change though, they always do. I'm speaking from a perspective of someone who is younger, relatively new to pinball, can't afford to own or operate a machine, & hangs out at (b)arcades to play. I accept the industry is not built for people like me, but it won't be long before the old guard goes away and Millennials are blamed for killing another industry (i.e. changing demographics). It's just my opinion.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from DracAttack666:

..., but it won't be long before the old guard goes away and Millennials are blamed for killing another industry ...

Again, you're new, we've already convicted them here of it

#14 4 years ago

I mostly don't give a turd for the theme. Just needs to be a good game that has me going back for more...

#15 4 years ago

I don't think Spooky would have sold out Rick and Morty if it was instead sold as a generic game called "Space Adventures". Licenses sell games.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from DracAttack666:

Well, there's my answer. Thank you. Demographics will change though, they always do. I'm speaking from a perspective of someone who is younger, relatively new to pinball, can't afford to own or operate a machine, & hangs out at (b)arcades to play. I accept the industry is not built for people like me, but it won't be long before the old guard goes away and Millennials are blamed for killing another industry (i.e. changing demographics). It's just my opinion.

No one will blame you. It’s quite amazing pinball is even alive still...It started to get killed by video games in the 80s, going out to play video games started to die as soon as the home gaming experience got better than the arcades. Now, people have games in their pockets that rival arcade games. Pinball just barely survived because Stern refused to close their doors, even when all other pinball companies vanished. Being the only choice, along with a few hit themes that sold very well (TSPP, LOTR, POTC) kept them alive. They almost went under around 2010. Some of their games only sold 300-500 units. That’s when the shift happened to marketing a hyped up LE model for every release. AC/DC was the first big hit, with the LE’s selling for $6600 & then rocketing up to $10k on the used market. That started the “better get the LE before they’re gone” hype, and themes that resonated with the pin crowd helped. AC/DC wouldn’t have had that sales hype if it was generic. So - here’s how Sterns success works now: LE sells instantly. Let’s assume that covers that costs of development. Then, if the game gains a good reputation from its gameplay...all Pro & Prem sales after that are gravy & can continue for years.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They almost went under around 2010. Some of their games only sold 300-500 units. That’s when the shift happened to marketing a hyped up LE model for every release. AC/DC was the first big hit, with the LE’s selling for $6600 & then rocketing up to $10k on the used market. That started the “better get the LE before they’re gone” hype, and themes that resonated with the pin crowd helped. AC/DC wouldn’t have had that sales hype if it was generic. So - here’s how Sterns success works now: LE sells instantly. Let’s assume that covers that costs of development. Then, if the game gains a good reputation from its gameplay...all Pro & Prem sales after that are gravy & can continue for years.

I've learned a lot from this post. Thanks. Nevertheless, I want Van Halen pinball more than ever.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from DracAttack666:

I've learned a lot from this post. Thanks. Nevertheless, I want Van Halen pinball more than ever.

You’ll prob get one! Lol ...I’m hoping someone does Rush.

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