(Topic ID: 233801)

Theatre of MAGIC!!!....(formerly theatre of tragic) ...rebuilding a classic


By cosmokramer

10 months ago



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  • 313 posts
  • 56 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 21 days ago by cosmokramer
  • Topic is favorited by 77 Pinsiders

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There are 313 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 7.
#151 5 months ago

Here is my first real area of concern, the exposed T-nut near the trunk...in the old playfield there is a fairly deep depression where the T-nut was drawn in tight, with no clear coat this seems like it would be fairly easy to do with no worry...however the new field has no depression and I am afraid the T-nut will sit high and cause problems, if I really pull it in it will damage the clear. I suppose the solution is to use the Kruzman kit to remove the clear from the area but, to be honest, YIKES that doesnt sound like fun...
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The original T-nut had 3 prong, my replacement has 4...

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But on the top the new one has a much smaller divot in the center that the ball could "T-up" on...

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I think I am going to hold off on installing that T-nut until I get some practice with the Kruzman kit cleaning out holes and such in less noticable areas...then return to this when I get a sense of how the clear reacts to removal...

#152 5 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

I wont be routing this, no
Can I get away with no mylar?

I've never used mylar on the games that I restore. I don't think I've seen any used on HEP games either.

Pretty sure that vid1900 had said the same thing, mylar only needed for routed games.

#153 5 months ago

Here's how I view mylar. Full mylar ... no. I think its asinine NOT to use it in ball drops areas, under ramp flaps and in areas wear a vuk is used. Who cares if it's HUO? You're restoring it because someone else didn't take care of it. Make sure that game has a long life because you cared enough to protect it. My .02

#154 5 months ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Here's how I view mylar. Full mylar ... no. I think its asinine NOT to use it in ball drops areas, under ramp flaps and in areas wear a vuk is used. Who cares if it's HUO? You're restoring it because someone else didn't take care of it. Make sure that game has a long life because you cared enough to protect it. My .02

It's not a delicate flower... It's Pinball machine. Ball drops... Mylar is not going to help that much, best to use metal to protect it.

HUO means everything. If it is in my home, I'm watching for issues so I don't need mylar. If wear starts, I will figure out the cause and fix it. Maybe a ball got a knick or a flipper is worn a dragging. Mylar is for a bar environment where it will go months without anyone caring for it.

I assume you mean drop ramp, yeah... That may be a good spot for mylar.

#155 5 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

I am only pre-drilling the top sides of the rail, the bottom holes will be marked and drilled after I can place the rail in position. This eliminates any problems if the rail hole locations on the new playfield are not in the correct position.

Well this turned out to be a wise move, the holes for the rails were drilled a little weird...the small hole that passed all the way through was not centered with the divot drilled for the screwhead...
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Luckily I was able to just clamp the rail into position, mark the correct hole locations, drill on drill press, and get all 3 rails installed without incident.
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All T-nuts are installed...except the one discussed earlier...

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#156 5 months ago
Quoted from kcZ:

It's not a delicate flower... It's Pinball machine. Ball drops... Mylar is not going to help that much, best to use metal to protect it.
HUO means everything. If it is in my home, I'm watching for issues so I don't need mylar. If wear starts, I will figure out the cause and fix it. Maybe a ball got a knick or a flipper is worn a dragging. Mylar is for a bar environment where it will go months without anyone caring for it.
I assume you mean drop ramp, yeah... That may be a good spot for mylar.

Except scoop kick outs cause wear as a normal part of play. Nothing you can do to stop that. It's the ball dragging due to no spin and the drop. Same with ball drops off ramps. Nothing to 'stop' there except to stop playing. Same with edge wear on certain scoops. Pop bumper areas wear for the same 'no rolling' reasons.

Spot mylar is sound strategy on even rebuilt games. And since it's on nice new PFs, you can wax under it to make removal easier... unlike the days of the 80s.

Waxing only goes so far..

#157 5 months ago

I would probably put a round piece of mylar above each of the magnets in both sides? I think my own ToM is a little worn there. Nothing serious though..

#160 5 months ago

No problem, I've gone through that guide so many times, I can usually find topics in it rather quickly!

#161 5 months ago

What is the downside to installing mylar now? Isn't it easily removed later especially on a waxed playfield? I could see "visually" it being unwanted but a few bits here and there (especially at the inlanes where the ball drops, or maybe cliffys). I am doing a restored JP playfield now and just getting ready to rub out the the clear and was going to be installing mylar.

#162 5 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Can I get away with no mylar?

Should be fine with just the clearcoat, but a little extra protection is never a bad idea around pop bumpers at least. Just make sure it's good and waxed up before you lay anything down and it should come up easily later.

#163 5 months ago

Hey, why don’t you remove the “grabbers” on your t-nut and just lightly adhere it to the PF and let it come tight when the machine screw is threaded in? Am I crazy?

#164 5 months ago
Quoted from northerndude:

Hey, why don’t you remove the “grabbers” on your t-nut and just lightly adhere it to the PF and let it come tight when the machine screw is threaded in? Am I crazy?

I actually ran across t-nuts today that had no prongs.

#165 5 months ago

Just found this. Subscribed.

#166 5 months ago
Quoted from northerndude:

Hey, why don’t you remove the “grabbers” on your t-nut and just lightly adhere it to the PF and let it come tight when the machine screw is threaded in? Am I crazy?

This is the direction that I am leaning. Remove almost all the "teeth", leaving just a tiny nub to grab the clear and not spin. As long as I am careful it should work out OK...still debating carving out some of the clear so the nut sits close to flush with the field...

#167 5 months ago

What would high_end_pins do?

#168 5 months ago
Quoted from pintechev:

What would high_end_pins do?

There's the million dollar question....
He is on vacation this week

Im going to start a seperate thread to address this issue...

#170 5 months ago

A little progress on the lower cab...harness will be tightned up with zipties once I get the rest of the wiring done...
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Polished to a nice shine...

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#172 5 months ago

I made thread asking for help with the clearcoat removal for the T-nut on top of the playfield and got some responses...The manufacturer of the playfield said to whack it in with a hammer, the best restorer in the business said to use a forschner bit to drill the clear away (but cautioned that it was risky)

Both of those options makes my butt pucker....I got a very helpful message from another pinsider who had less than great results from attempting the forschner bit method and he sent me some tips on doing the job with a demel...thanks George!

So, before I do that I need to get a bit more familiar with how the clear comes off. I am going to practice on the holes for the pop screws. If I mess up here it wont be seen...

We can start here...
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First I drilled the hole through just slightly bigger than the bolt...
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Next I used the dremel with a rounded bit and carefully removed the clear around the outside edge...
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Checking to make sure the enough clear is removed...
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I will continue to drill/dremel the rest of them, the edges will be sealed up once I get the rest done.

#173 5 months ago

Drilled and dremeled all 9 screw holes for the pops...
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Next is to seal up the raw wood...
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Really simple...build a drop on the tip of the needle and just touch it to the top edge of the area where the clear is removed...it will wick around and seal it up, on these holes I used 2 drops each...
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#174 5 months ago

So now Im a pro right?
Lets give the main event a look over...
We need a T-nut right here, flush with the surface of the clearcoat...
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So, without the balls to whack it in with a hammer or to drill it all at once I am proceeding with the dremel. First I apply tape to the area,

then clipped the fins off the T-nut so I can get it down to the playfield
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Then outline with a hobby knife....
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So now we know where to remove the clear...what could possibly go wrong

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#175 5 months ago

Here we go...
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So, yeah, im shittin my pants right now
Just taking out a little at a time...
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Test fit, not close yet, but feeling a bit more confident...
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Remove a little more...
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Cheeks clenched, sweat dripping off my brow, more and more is removed...

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#176 5 months ago

Profile is just about right, now just gotta get it to the correct depth...

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#177 5 months ago

I would be freaking out if I had to do that. But funny to think that a very confident assembly line worker likely installed that with a hammer and never thought twice about it.

#178 5 months ago
Quoted from pintechev:

I would be freaking out if I had to do that. But funny to think that a very confident assembly line worker likely installed that with a hammer and never thought twice about it.

They didnt have clear coat from factory

Nice and flush...

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#179 5 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

They didnt have clear coat from factory....

I assume ToM was of the Diamond Coat vintage?

#180 5 months ago

Whew, glad thats done. Gonna go change my shorts and keep going...
Finished...
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And sealed...
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#181 5 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Whew, glad thats done. Gonna go change my shorts and keep going...
Finished...
[quoted image]
And sealed...
[quoted image]

Loved how you used the green tape method to cut the shape of the T-nut! Looking good!

#182 5 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

They didnt have clear coat from factory

They did... TOM is long after WMS started using diamond coat finishes. I think the answer is simply they were more flexible than the auto-clears used now (but not as optically clear as the auto clears used now).

#183 5 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

They didnt have clear coat from factory
Nice and flush...[quoted image]

Sure it did. Maybe not as thick as Mirco, but it’s Diamond Plate.

Nice job on it!

#184 5 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

They did... TOM is long after WMS started using diamond coat finishes. I think the answer is simply they were more flexible than the auto-clears used now (but not as optically clear as the auto clears used now).

Quoted from pintechev:

Sure it did. Maybe not as thick as Mirco, but it’s Diamond Plate.
Nice job on it!

Live and learn, I assumed it was not after inspecting it
.. nothing like the clear coats of today

#185 5 months ago

and just FYI.. WMS eventually stopped using the Diamond Plate logos too.. (forget when...) but the PF was still covered the same. It was marketing in the early days when they started using it.. and everyone eventually had their own flavor of marketed covering instead of the lacquer finishes that preceded them.

#186 5 months ago

Doing flipper rebuild.... After taking these apart it looks like someone may have done a rebuild not to long before I got it. All the parts are tight, bushings look great, coil stops seem fresh...
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So, it really probably doesnt need to be rebuilt, but Im going to do it anyway. I will probably use the old parts on some other game...

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#187 5 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

and just FYI.. WMS eventually stopped using the Diamond Plate logos too.. (forget when...) but the PF was still covered the same. It was marketing in the early days when they started using it.. and everyone eventually had their own flavor of marketed covering instead of the lacquer finishes that preceded them.

That makes sense then because my WH20 has the diamondcoat logo and the TOM did not, leading me to believe (along with looking at the damage to old field) that it was not diamondplate

#188 5 months ago

Didnt get as far today as I wanted....but installing the T-nut took a full hour, plus another 30 minutes or so to recover afterwards...
Heres how the playfield sits today...

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#189 5 months ago

What kind of slack/play does the plunger and the plastic link have on your flipper mechs? I was considering replacing mine because that plunger/link combo has some slop, but then I was thinking it might have been built in (keeping it from being so tight). Is it supposed to flop around a bit or just act as a joint?

#190 5 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

What kind of slack/play does the plunger and the plastic link have on your flipper mechs? I was considering replacing mine because that plunger/link combo has some slop, but then I was thinking it might have been built in (keeping it from being so tight). Is it supposed to flop around a bit or just act as a joint?

the new ones have no play, the ones I removed had just a little slop at the link.

#191 5 months ago

Yeeesh. I was clenching right there with you. I have a hard enough time just drilling new holes for wire guides, let alone carving out a cavity like that. Looking awesome!

#192 5 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

the new ones have no play, the ones I removed had just a little slop at the link.

Thanks, going to order some up then!

#193 5 months ago

I gotta say, I am a little dissapointed with the locations of the dimples on the underside of the playfield. I knew going into this these would only be guidelines but some are way off (worst I found is 3/8" from correct location)

This pattern is supposed to be square...
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Other side is much closer but still a bit off....
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One pop is right on, one is close and one is way off...
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It will be a long process to get everything in the correct position, I hope the topside will be more accurate.
The popper mech bracket has been twisted and bent, it appears to be from some previous user trying to adjust the trajectory of the eject...
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I also found that they had tried relocating the mech as well...
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I was able to straighten the bracket for the popper mech

#194 5 months ago

Harness has had time to dry, it came out very clean, although it is a bit tangled...
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I lost 2 coil wrappers in the wash cycle, but the rest of them look great...

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#195 5 months ago

What’s your plan for the off-centered pop holes?

#196 5 months ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

What’s your plan for the off-centered pop holes?

No worries here, just glue in a toothpick and redrill...
It was only the screw holes to hold the body to the playfield, not the holes for the pop ring.

Well, actually I have not checked the pop ring holes yet...

#197 5 months ago

This game has HUGE mech assemblies...the trunk, the trap door/ball lock assembly and the ball trough are monsterous....
The mechanical engineering is the reason I love pinball and this machine delivers...
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Time to strip it down, clean it up, replace the switches and the coil sleeves.

#198 5 months ago

Man, I'm feeling your pain right now. Been stripping down and rebuilding all of the mechs on my JP. So much black dust, so many coils. It's all strangely satisfying but I find myself washing my hands like 5-10 times a day more just from this work alone.

#199 5 months ago

Exploded view...
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Nothing too crazy in store for the mechanism just a simple cleaning of the main chassis...i found a rolled edge near the basement VUK and it had enough of a lip on it that I was able to catch it with my fingernail...
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I filed off the burr, the waxed that area and also the ball lock area...now it is super smooth and slick and should work great...
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Same thing on the ball lock post...
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I filed these burrs off as well, I did not want it to ding up the new balls

#200 5 months ago

Is this screw factory?

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