So, one guess is that the game thinks you have more than one ball down there and ejects the extra ball. Can you go I to switch test and get a single ball down there and see how many switches actuate?
Also, any chance you have debris in the subway?

So, I had my TOM apart to replace a switch and looked a bit at the mechanism.

When you get a ball into the trunk, it rolls down the subway and into a row of 3 switches. In front of the switches is a gate that is attached to a solenoid. This controls the flow of balls to the kicker that sends it up and out of the trap door. If the metal gate is not up and blocking the ball, it will flow out to the kicker and then get kicked up. So, you should raise the playfield and take a look at the mechanism down there. Make sure the subway is clear of gunk and that the three switches look good and actuate properly. Then take a look at the gate on the trap door weldment and make sure it's up and blocking the ball. When the solenoid is engaged, it pulls that metal gate down and allows the ball to flow to the popper.

Let me know what you find!

Marc

Hey man,

No need to apologize for being a noob! A year ago I had just bought my first pin and I didn't know anything at all. Just read this site and you will learn a ton!

OK; My first guess is a switch matrix issue related to a diode. Here's what I want you to do

Raise the playfield, Go into switch test and actuate the subway switches, one at a time, from left to right. When you do so, look at the display. You should see each switch registering only once. If other switches light up when you're only touching one, you have a problem. Do this for individual switches, as well as the switches in combination. When balls are locked, they lock from right to left, so try far right alone, far right and middle, and all three. Make a note of what the display is showing.

If you start to see phantom switches going off when you actuate the switches, you have a switch matrix issue. As LTG will say: "Switch wired incorrectly, diode broken, backwards or missing."

Once we know what the results of this test are, it should be easier to fix your problem. And I don't think this will be really hard to fix. Those microswitches are pretty simple. Three contacts. A blocking diode across the return path and usually just two wires. My hunch is that one of those switches is wired incorrectly, and/or a diode has come off, or was installed backwards.

P.S. The whole "switch matrix" thing is a little complicated to understand, but it's something worth learning if you want to maintain a pin.

Let me know what you find out!
Marc

In the manual, you can clearly see how the switches are wired:

Screen Shot 2014-04-13 at 9.43.53 PM.png

The three switches on the lower left side are what I want you to check first. It clearly shows the three legs of the microswitch, the diode (the little pill with the black band on one side) going from contact one to contact three, as well as which wires go to which points. Look carefully for wiring and the direction of the diode. The diode is black, and the band will be silver. The direction the band is facing (right or left) is critical. It has to be exactly as the diagram shows or you will get switch matrix issues.

Hope this helps!
Marc

Yeah. This is the issue. When you put a ball in there, it should trip only one switch at a time. Follow my posts above and let me know what you find. Something is wrong with how that's wired.

I thought this was the smoking gun to explain your problems, but I talked myself out of the idea. The five switches that could be triggered are subway opto, subway micro, lock 3, lock 2, and lock 1. That's five. I wasn't sure there were two "subway" switches, but there are in the manual. The next switch in that sequence would be the ball popper, but the ball shouldn't get there without the trough coil firing, and that's what I suspected was failing. After learning that there are 2 subway switches, and basically six total switches in the subway and not five, everything you describes sounds like it's working fine.

schonb25 said a lot of stuff that indicates that he knows what he's talking about. A weird switch matrix problem could possibly manifest only when multiple switches are fired at the same time. That could explain why you have problems after that first ball is locked (triggering a switch). In switch test, test all possible combinations of two switches with the subway switches.

Do more testing, thinking, and asking questions. Good luck!

It depends on if there are five switches going in sequence, as in, as the ball rolls down, it actuated them in order and lands on the last switch and stays closed, or you trigger one and other switches close without being hit. It really depends. Your explanation could be totally right and I grossly misread this.

In any case, the questions above will be a good starting point!

I'm about 99% sure it should not make it to the popper. If it does make it to the popper, the hardware of the game has no way to lock the ball.

That's definitely your problem. Something isn't right with that gate.

Listen to this man. He speaks the truth. The popper should only go when you lock all three balls and it starts the popping sequence after the lights dim.

Marc

I would love to see some pictures of the area in question. In switch test, if you have 3 balls locked, do all three switches appear and closed in the switch test?

Also, I would look at that ball gate assembly and make sure you have all the right parts in there; coil sleeve, plunger, etc.

It thinks it's locked (it says ball 1 locked when it trips the trunk opto on the way down. The ball is clearly rolling down but the gate is lowered and it rolls to the popper. The popper pops when the switch is triggered. So, I think we need to focus on the ball gate. Let's start by getting the 100% correct coil sleeve in there. I would also look at the mechanism and make sure that the plunger can move smoothly and not bind.

Do you only have 3 balls in the game?

Screen Shot 2014-04-14 at 11.19.24 PM.png

Lowering the gate allows the ball to pass. The solenoid pulls it down into the coil.

Mot asked a good question!

Well then I think it's the ball gate in the subway. It shouldn't be letting balls pass right through.

Time to see some pictures.

So, I looked at my game and the manual. The ball gate is held in the up position by a spring. When the coil is energized, it pulls the gate down, but the spring is there to pop the gate back up when the coil turns off. Do you have a spring in there?

If not, I am starting to be out of ideas...

Marc

Well, the gate is up and trapped when the coil is NOT energized, so, it should not be down, unless the coil is on to keep it down, or something is not allowing the spring to return the ball gate back up to block the path of the ball. It's triggered in a couple of situations:

1) Anytime the ball goes into the trunk when it's not a multi ball situation.
2) After the 3rd ball is locked, it lowers to feed the popper
3) When you hit the jackpot in multiball, it lowers to feed the ball back to you

I am officially out of ideas...

Marc

This is tough issue. My TOM is 13 years young . I had this issue when I got it years ago. And I did fix it. But do not remember what I did. It is a pain but what if you replaced all the switch's in question. I think it is an intermittent switch issue. Or buy Deoxid contact cleaner and spray all the switches that has worked for me in some situations . Thanks to all the pinheads on this thread . This is what is so good about pinside. I would have called my game tech by now. I hope you can figure it out. I no it is frustrating . Peace

I have experienced the memory blanks also, started to keep a diary of what I did in the coin box area. A small note pad works great.

Can you show me a clearer picture of the wiring of the first switch (closest to the gate?)

Marc

The first ball might not lock if the game thinks there are only three balls in the trough. Have you tested all of the trough switches as you add the balls one at a time?

I've seen this same problem in TOM.

The game is confused about how many balls are actually in the trunk because one or more of the micro switches are sticking or are not registering.

Don't bother trying to clean them or adjusting the actuators - Just replace all three of the switches with new ones from Pinball Life. They're about $2.00 each. They're the same switches commonly used in flipper in-lanes. Just make sure the shape of the actuators are correct. Once you do that your problems will go away.

I was able to confirm this. The game thinks you have two balls down there. Last night, glass off, I sent two balls in rapid succession into the lock. It kept one and ejected the second. Replace the switches under there. Might as well do them all since it's a bit of a pain to access. Sorry for going around on this, but it's hard to work on a game long distance

Marc

Let us know how it goes! Happy to help!

I have a similar problem with my Subway on my TOM. just wondered if the switch replacement worked here?

Hate to bring this thread back up, but it was never resolved and I might have a good thought. You might want to check your "Stopball Feeder" Part#A-19936 Mine looked like this, so it would never lock a ball because of the missing pin:
magic pin missing (resized).jpg
It should look like this:magic pin installed (resized).jpg
Maybe this gets the lock working better. I'm ordering one now...

Look very closely at this stop ball feeder part. Its very common to have the small pin broken off. My TOM had this issue as well as 2 others I've worked on over the years. In my experience its rarely the switches in the trunk trough but its certainly possible.

Just another Pinside appreciation post. This thread helped me track down the exact issue (that little pin on the Stop Ball Feeder Assembly had broken off). For reference (and others searching) what was happening was multi-ball was unable to start (balls just kept being ejected from the trapdoor after making it into the trunk). Game errors were for the switches (switch 41, switch 42, switch 43 - lock 1, lock 2, lock 3).

Thank you!

I have the same problem but no one is selling the part anymore. In m y case the pin is worn down and not able to hold the ball from advancing. I maty remove the screw and install a counter sunk screw in order to gain more length in the pin that way.

It's in england, but they are currently closed?

They say they have the part in stock.

https://www.ministryofpinball.com/en/theatre-of-magic-stop-ball-feeder-assy.html

I recently got mine here:

https://www.planetarypinball.com/pinball-A-19936