Theatre of Magic
Bally, 1995You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider harryhoudini.
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It *looks* to me like you may want to use something like a forstner bit to create a recess the diameter of the t-nut. That would let the nut sit flush and would prevent the clear from cracking/indenting. Probably only need to drill in like a mm or two. I have no experience doing this but we're dealing with cracking/dimpling issues on sling posts on JJPOTC right now which are mirco playfields and one suggestion was that the playfields should have been drilled for the posts.
Has anyone here painted their cabinet trim and/or habit trails/wireforms? I'm not sure I want to invest the money in to PC or plating, at least not for the cabinet hardware (might do the plating on the wireforms). I might just leave them silver, easiest... but I have some paint coming in that I was considering using to paint the lockdown, side rails & legs. I'd clear it with 2X Spraymax so with the right prep I would think it'd adhere pretty good.
Quoted from nickbuol:Paint rarely ever looks right/good in my opinion. The brass/gold metallic and shiny paint is usually a little more difficult to get a good finish on it that holds up or looks completely even. You need to also apply automotive grade (really hard) clear coat. I went through a couple attempts to paint over a spare plunger end (the plastic ball) to make it usable and "gold" looking. I bought one originally, and they had issues with swirls (shows as gray swirls on gold), so I removed it and then tried a few different paints. In the end I used a plastic primer and some metallic gold spray and took it super slow. I had automotive clear coat that I sprayed and lightly baked on to it. It doesn't show any wear, but it still isn't perfect. I can't imagine what that would look like on a long flat surface like side rails or a lockdown where any imperfection would stand out more.
So you can certainly give it a shot, but be ready with a backup plan if it doesn't turn out right. Even spraying primer made for metal is tricky to get to stick without at least scuffing the surface, so that could be permanent scuffs on your long metal pieces if it doesn't work out, and can be really hard on things like the wireforms to get all of it.
I am sure that people have used "regular" paint (non-metallic) on the cabinet metal, but I am not sure how many try a shiny finish vs. a color. I've seem some do a "gold paint" that wasn't metallic, and it looked like butterscotch paint, not a shiny metal, so maybe that is why it worked...
Do you have a spare piece of metal that you can test? That would save you from possibly messing up one of the actual legs, lockdown, or side rails...
Thanks. The 2X is a 2-part auto clear in a can. You mix it when you are ready to use it, short life after that. Same as any 2-part I believe.
I ordered like 10 different golds. I actually want a more muted, brassy tone to the cabinet parts I think, which may make the paint the right look for me. I think the bright gold just doesn't look quite right on the game. I don't mind testing on some spare metal, wish I kept some old legs around. I fear the worst is going to be getting a good adhesion to any coated metal and most people say to strip that... and there are many ways to strip nickel plating but not sure what the wireforms are (are they actually brass plated). But that gets in to a whole other spider web of tools and chemicals and crap. I have a bench grinder with a wire wheel and buffing wheel now so I can probably do some scuffing or cleaning of most surfaces. Maybe some sanding. I figure worst case, I spent some money and time doing it and it doesn't come out so I still take it to get PC.
Maybe I'll ask the PC place how much to just strip and prep the parts. That could get me 70% of the way there. 2X also sells an automotive primer which probably has way better adhesion than 1-part cans. Shit, maybe I should just get in to automotive paints now, lol.
PS - just contacted a seller of Spray Max custom colors in a can (so automotive 2-part paint in a can). Hopefully I can order a color that suits me and use the Spray Max primer/etcher along with some surface prep. I am thinking automotive paint all around should be pretty tough. I am unsure about the habit trails, I still may just go plated on those to not have to worry, and I think they look better brass.
I'm gonna try to go for this look, if anyone knows what it is: https://www.coinoppartsetc.com/sites/default/files/styles/668x598/public/products/THEATRE%20OF%20MAGIC%20Pinball%20Machine%20Game%20by%20BALLY%20-%20THAT%20MAGIC%20TOUCH%20-%20LED%20UPGRADE%20%20%282%29.JPG?itok=GS-vafuP
Quoted from pinballinreno:Paint wont hold up at all. Powdercoat or plating.
plate the wireforms, siderails and legs brass/gold.
Find a plater near you or send them to hod rod arcades. He might have them in stock.
Splatter paint the coin door satin black, replace the inserts etc.
Even with an automotive clear on it? I mean, if that kind of clear holds up on the playfield, why not on cabinet parts?
There is an online pinball plater who has the TOM wireforms all done, $175. I'd probably do that if I end up painting the cabinet parts. I am worried PC won't hold up on the habit trails, my RR WOZ has wear on the PC wireforms.
Quoted from pinballinreno:It has to do the the thin edge where the ball meet the rounded wire.
Lots of wear in exacty the same area over and over again on the wire.
It just peels paint right off.
Ah, I meant more on the cabinet. For the wireforms I am pretty sure I am going to get the plated ones. The only place I can see really being an issue is the lockbar where you hit it with jeans, rings or whatever and around the siderails/buttons. But I would think with an auto clear, a few coats, should be more than sufficient to protect for home use. Paints should arrive any day, just need to do some prep work and I am going to paint the lockbar underside with a few of the colors to see what looks best. Then I'll do the lockbar, legs, hinges, siderails and shooter housing in paint and clear. I'll redo the door in the speckled black gloss. I have to do the door anyhow because the coin mechs are all lira, reimport. Feeling pretty confident about this now that I just finished the auto clear on a playfield and it's tough. I did a motorcycle tank too, the only thing that would prevent gas from eating it up. Got some nice new ramps sitting here, got a vibrating tumbler for the metal work (doing my JP now, looks awesome) and just have to apply decals to the playfield. I am sort of considering clearing it now after the decals instead of the protector. I'm about 2/3 of the way there (just a bit more to remove from the playfield, as long as I can unplug all of the harnesses easy, JP was not easily possible, I can take it outside and spray it as is without removing any of the under playfield structures. Dang.. I might just do that now. I am afraid I'll be unhappy with the newton rings that the protectors seem to have. I think the clear would help to level out the decal edges too.
*Edit - I think this might be the color, ordering now. https://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-7274830-Stops-Metallic-Antique/dp/B0009XB3HM/ref=sr_1_10
Clear & Primer Package ebay.com link: itm
Also got a semi-matte to see how that looks, never used it before ebay.com link: itm and I think it might look good, sort of like Houdini
Also gonna clear the coin door with the Spray Max, it will be bulletproof.
Quoted from pinballinreno:Several games were clearcoated over the brass lockdown bar and siderail plating to keep it from tarnishing.
It looks amazing when brand new.
It didn't hold up.
I think it was the lack of primer under the paint.
Not even in a HUO environment.
Lots if chips and scratches from rings and watchbands etc.
Powdercoat is the way to go these days.
I sort of find that hard to believe still. Almost, if not all, of the "bargain" restores or painting I've seen use regular 1-part spray paint as clear. I know for sure that won't hold up. But the auto 2-part clear that is used on a playfield seems like it surely would stand up way better. Along with a 2-part epoxy etching primer I would think it would be pretty good results. I mean, this is what I painted my motorcycle gas tank with and it gets zippers and such rubbed up against it, not a scratch on it. Worst case, I take it to get PC if it doesn't work out. I've also read the SprayMax website and they specifically say their primers work over coated materials (like zinc and galvanized) so it makes me even more apt to try it.
Let's also mention I just bought a RR WOZ and the wireforms that were powdercoated ruby red have worn sections down to metal where the ball hits (coming out of the castle playfield, etc). So PC surely isn't the end all, be all for wireforms at least. But that worries me for the other items, I mean there are chips in the siderails and such where the PC has been nicked. I don't see a ton of difference there between that and my JP which had spray painted (no clear) siderails for just some shit touchups I did.
Chris, pinball plating or whatever, does not have the TOM wireforms in stock (I thought he did) so he said 1-2 months. That's ridiculous, so I am contacting another plating place that was recommended. I think for the wireforms it makes sense to get brass plated and clear coated. I'll do the 2x Spraymax on those too if the plater doesn't do it.
Quoted from meSz:Trying to help a local guy out with his ToM. Haven't looked at the game yet but he's telling me that "Power shuts off sometimes and that it ejects all balls into trough". Figured I post here to see if folks with ToM ever experienced these issues. Looking for possible things to check!
WPC games have an issue with resets, mostly due to low 5v power. Not sure if that could cause the trough issue but if it resets when does it shoot the balls out of the trough?
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets
Tested paint on lockbar. First two coats of etching primer, sanded with 1000. Several coats of this metallic bronze. I think I am going to "dust" it with some gold flake paint to give it a bit more sheen but overall very happy. I was going for more of a "Houdini" look versus bright gold. I have like 10 cans of various gold flake paints here now, lol. After I get it where I want it, going to paint side rails, legs and maybe head hinges. Then coat in semi-gloss SprayMax 2X with several thick coats. Should be bulletproof.
It does look a bit more gold in person.
Considering if I bother with the habit trails. I think I might do them in a brighter gold and gloss auto clear and see how that holds up. Could always strip them and PC if I wanted but honestly, my WOZ RR powder coat isn't holding up that great.
0630191556 (resized).jpg0630191556a (resized).jpg0630191556b (resized).jpgWell, that was quicker than expected. The SprayMax primer sets like instantly, lol.
Some of the options (3rd from left was first coat on lockbar and far right was the dusting)
0701191946a (resized).jpg
Dusted with gold (getting a bit dark out)
0701191946b (resized).jpg
0701191947 (resized).jpg
Primed and painted with gold (3rd from right)
0701191959 (resized).jpg
Quoted from scruffypinball:I’ll attach it but it’s the plastic that goes on the wireform that is crescent shaped
https://imgur.com/a/VD4a8Yj
Oh, that goes above the captive ball, right?
Nope, you can't get that one outside of a kit as far as I can tell. That was one I needed and I ended up just getting the whole set because it wasn't available. The thing is that I also couldn't find part numbers for the items nor reliably used on sites. Some use "1" and "2" for the plastic numbers. It seems like it wasn't so popular back then to worry about it.
Might be an option for you. Are you looking for brand new? I also have a used one if you just need anything that works.
ebay.com link: i
Yeah, sorry, didn't post an update. I didn't have my machine so I was thinking this was the captive ball plastic (the rounded front got me) but yeah, I realize that captive one is much larger, has the smoke clouds on it and is even harder to come by because they are always broken. You were right, the back right one and I happened to have two extra so he's set.
Anyone done the rad cals? I am wondering if they will look out of place given the original finish of the vinyl decals. I have the side rails off now anyhow so I could just do the vinyl, it's cheaper. I wonder what the minimal prep is that has to be done, does it have to go back to bare wood?
Quoted from pinballinreno:Rad Cals are thick plastic.
No cab work required other than being flat and smooth.
Regular vinyl should be applied over very smooth finished wood.
Either painted, varnished or primered. But very smooth or you will see defects.
Ugh, yea I don't want to really sand down the cabinet. But not sure I really want the look of rad cals.
Quoted from GreenMachine19:I've read that they go on below the side rails.
The rad cals? Yeah, that's what I read but I am painting them so they are off.
Anyone know what the yellow bracket is in the new parts bag? Crazy, this was a re-import machine and has the entire bag plus some other stuff. There are two of those brackets (one not in a bag) so I'm assuming only one came with the game originally.
The keychain and the sling mylar have seen better days. The allen key star pattern was unique. Is that used for this game somewhere? It was in a small manilla envelope.
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from weaverj:leave it to a pandemic for me to get some work done around here. i finally put in my mirror blades. they've probably been sitting here over a year...[quoted image]
What lighting are you using that is giving that overall blue color on the GI?
Quoted from Gohigh54:Looking for advice on my playfield. The Golden book inserts seem to be lifting out. I originally thought that someone put stickers over them, but closer look I think it is just lifting out. The rest of the playfield is in really good condition. Considering options of trying to repair myself, sending it out or just putting a replacement in.
Any input is much appreciated. If I were to send out, any good recommendations?[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I had the same issue but mine started wearing. I ended up buying an overlay decal and removing all of the insert coating and sanding them down. That's about where I'm at, lol. You might get away with a custom cut piece of mylar to protect it and prevent any damage. Heating the inserts and sinking them down is the preferred method to level it back out but I have no idea how it will fair on a playfield that isn't getting restored. If you chip some paint or something it would be a bad thing.
Quoted from ptolemy:yellow bracket is used to hold in the switch for solenoids so the coin door can stay open to access the test switches.
black star wrench I believe is used to remove the screws in the backglass lock plate
Awesome, thanks!
Quoted from weaverj:my GI is actually a mix of pink and purple, but my phone shows the purple more bluish.
Oh sweet, I use those as well. Do you happen to know which bulbs from whom? I have a fetish with bulbs apparently, I have about 200 of them in various colors and designs from 3 different manufacturers, lol.
Quoted from pacman11:Heard someone on this thread was making a new trunk? Is there anyway someone can make Bud and Buzz for No Good Gofers
I'll PM you
Parts - Wanted
Want to Buy Buzz and Bud for No Good Gofers
New!
Wanted! “Looking for Buzz and Bud replacement heads. One of mine just broke so I need to replace him. If you have an extra set laying around let me know. Thanks!”
23 hours ago
Richfield , MI
Wanted
pacman11
I was starting to work on TOM lighting, theatre spotlights could definitely work there.
On another note, this is about 4 coats of Spray Max 2X. Waiting on another can (well, I got 6 cans lol) to do another 2 coats. I applied several decals including the main illusion area so wanting to build up a good amount of clear to make the transition nice. I painted the inlane slots black, mostly to cover up my repairs but I think it fits perfectly. All my other touchups look about 75% I think... I am sure others do it much better but after this amount of clear they are mostly unnoticeable unless you know where to look.
Pasted_Image_5_12_20__2_16_PM (resized).jpgPhoto_-_Google_Photos (resized).jpg
Pasted_Image_5_12_20__2_18_PM (resized).jpgAll done. Just some finish sanding and polishing but dang it's glass smooth after the last coat anyhow. Decals blended in perfectly with some virigous sanding of the built up clear. No ridge at all, almost blend in perfectly. Hard to re-create the dot pattern of the silk screen by hand and I didn't want to print out decals to try and match it so that's the only real stand out.
The three decals under the trap door and the main rabbit/illusion were all replaced. Way better than I could have touched anything up. Repaired the trunk and trap door entrance as good as I could but didn't try to color match the bondo. Never going to really see it after the cliffy.
Photo_-_Google_Photos (resized).jpgPhoto_-_Google_Photos (resized).jpgPhoto_-_Google_Photos (resized).jpgQuoted from pinballinreno:Wait 10 weeks before putting a ball on it or re-assembly.
Die back is a real thing.
Its surprising how much clearcoat shrinks.
With 5 coats, after die back, there is still enough paint to do another sanding and buffing to flatten it out again.
What is die back?
Definitely not waiting 10 weeks. I put my DE JP back together a few days after last coat and polishing, seems fine months later.
Thanks, yeah, I won't be waiting... it's just not an option in my plans. I'm up to 2000 grit right now, will go up to 4000 and continue with some scratch cutting compound and then wax. I've been looking closely at my JP playfield and I can't see anything that was detrimental from the quick assembly. Maybe it will come down the road, maybe I can't see it but I just don't have the option of having it sit around for another 2 months. The amount of sq/ft that is actually contacted by anything with any force is so tiny and are already dimpled so I'm not that concerned. A ball probably won't roll on it for another 3-4 weeks anyhow (doing WOZ 2.0 this weekend). I'm sure the high end restorers have their reasons and people pay for it but this game won't be immaculate, just a decent home restore. Cabinet has dings in it, doing the dress up parts myself, etc.
I'll see if I can dig up a fly to test with.
Quoted from pinballinreno:Needs to be coming out of a hat.....
Beautiful game !
Nice Doctor Who !
You ignored the CC!
The lit shooter rod looks great on the TOM.
There is no "adjustment" that I know of. The only adjustment would be to bend the ramp, move the plastic or trim the plastic. The question I would have is when did this start and what changed to make it start? I don't have my game together or I'd look at that specific placement. If you remove that plastic is all well?
Ah interesting. Wish I had my game together to look at the plastic/ramp interaction. Maybe the metal ramp just got tweaked. Doubt it's the plastic's fault but who knows. If you take the ramp out (not too big of a deal) you can probably bend it back pretty easily.
Oh good pics, didn't think about looking at the other ramp mounts. Maybe those are not aligned properly.
Looking for some details on the GI wiring bundles in the back left corner. Some better pics of the area might help or if someone can just confirm my assumptions please.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tom-gi-lighting-bundle-connections#post-5692062
Quoted from embryon:They look like they attach to the pop bumper globes that you feed down through the pop bumper bodies. They are flat thin metal strips that comes off the light sockets
Ahh!! Well, on mine (before I dissasembled) I think the sockets had been replaced because all that was left of the metal strip was a small piece stapled to the playfield. I'm guessing they were cut and replaced some time ago.
So they are both a joint and power for the pop GI it seems.
Quoted from monkfe:someone turned me onto this socket recently...keeps the bulb rock solid https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/077-5020-00
Yeah, those are the only sockets I use. We use them for our mods as well. I don't know why they aren't more prevalent.
Quoted from embryon:Now we're talking. I wish I'd seen these before and doubly wish they were available in oz.
Here's another option you can use after the fact: https://www.pinballlife.com/pop-bumper-lamp-centering-ring.html
Can anyone tell me if this guide goes in the game somewhere? lol... I have it left over and I don't know if it snuck in my parts by accident or if I Missed where it goes. I did notice that balls are landing in the vanish hole way too often if a hit the outer loop from the right but I don't see how this guide would have been placed if it was supposed to be back there.
About 1"x1"
pasted_image (resized).pngSame, thanks. It could very well have just snuck in, I've had the game apart for a year so stuff got moved around.
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:There is a service bulletin where you place a similar ball guide beneath the center ramp, just right of the trunk, could it be bought for that purpose but never mounted? I had to drill two holes for it myself as they werent in my pf.
Oh nice, thanks! I'll look for that SB.
Quoted from JustEverett:I can find a pic of the shop job I did on mine recently, but I think that’s either for the “secret ball lock” in the back of the trunk or the area right behind where the vanish happens.
I don't see it in any of my before photos. I am not even 100% it came from this game, although it'd be weird to just be laying around. I did shop a JP and Cyclone so who knows. It could have been in the goodie bag I got with the game.
pasted_image (resized).pngMidnight Madness ... how the heck do I keep the ball from just STDM drain after the first capture? Bastard trunk. Maybe related, it seems like my gearbox has a lot of slop in it. I can rotate the trunk about 5 degrees without moving the motor. I think if this wasn't an issue the trunk might sit at the right orientation to not release the ball STDM.
Trunk - On another note, has anyone silenced or deadened the trunk? We have a lot of issues with the ball popping out with a good shot so I started adding some thin foam inside. Looks like there are just two places, top collar on the center post and bottom of the basin right at the front. But now it got my interested in doing more. I think I'm gonna pull it and spray it with some black leak seal to deaden the ball, black it out and make it quiet.
Trap door. I think maybe the cliffy is causing an issue, I need to take some slow mo video but quite often it seems like the cliffy launches the ball and then it hits the clear deflector on top of the ramp and rejects it or it bounces off in another direction out of the ramp. It also appears that the front left post on the right ramp is too far behind the ball guide and it hits that end of the guide over and over (Balls look like crap after a handful of games). Aside from undoing all my work and grinding this down, any other fixes? Was thinking of looking for larger post rubber but I recall these being the largest.
Quoted from embryon:gone through hundreds of my resto photos and here is one that shows all the wires except for those anti bounce back ones under the flipper area
[quoted image]
Thanks a ton!
This might be the ebay link you want: ebay.com link: kctoys
Damage around the legs and shooter rod assembly really is the only issue and I hate to redo the cabinet just for that. Otherwise it's in great shape. First item on the list, shooter rod plate. If anyone is interested in this or the leg protectors I am working on I'll be posting them for sale on our site soon. I'll make them in gold and silver for those who want to match existing hardware. Could do the sparkly gold shooter rod as well if people want. Has reflective gold flakes in it.
pasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from t_robertson:I just bought my ToM and got it home but my trunk sensor isn’t working. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Obviously the trunk is a major part of the game.
[quoted image]
I would start with the switch test and adjustment of the eddy sensor. You can test the outlane sensors, as well, to confirm how they work/how to test. The adjustment procedure is in the manual, but that could be the simple fix.
A google search will provide a lot of good answers: http://www.pinballrevolution.com/threads/eddy-sensor-help.3611/#:~:text=To%20adjust%20an%20eddy%20sensor,%2FToM%2FRS%20eddy%20sensor.
Quoted from pinballinreno:The mechanical adjustment on the eddy sensor changes if you just look at it hard lol.
If you have them, its the first thing to throw away and upgrade.
All 3.
I really want a wider trunk sensor. I hate when I hit the trunk and it doesn't register. Mostly front left has a dead spot.
Quoted from ramegoom:I've removed the pickup connectors, and soldered the wires directly to the board pins. Also replaced the single turn trimpots with 10 turn trimpots and now they stay stable.
10 detents gives you enough adjustment? Those original pots are so touchy.
Quoted from ramegoom:Not detents, turns. So if the pot is 10K single turn, it makes the full resistance within less than a single full turn of the adjustment. A 10-turn makes the full resistance range within 10 full turns so one full turn is about 1/10th of the ohm rating. Much more precise when trying to get the LED to just turn off without a ball over the antenna, and it holds the value accurately.
They should have used a 10 or 15 turn pot in the original production, but costs, always concerned.
AHH.. that makes total sense.
Is there any interest in a set of used ramps? Not even going to bother to get them out and take pics unless it's something someone would need. AKAIK new ramps are available still so I didn't think it would be of interest to anyone. I think the only issue is the front left corner of the right ramp is cracked. I believe the cliffy covers it. I can take pics if someone is really interested. Otherwise I just have more old parts to store.
Oh, btw I posted this a while back. It's now up for sale on our store. I can do silver if you want it to match the stock shooter rod housing.
https://pinballmods.co/theatre-of-magic-pinball-mods/shooter-rod-cover-plate
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Yucaipa, CA
