I just paid for a re-import ToM. This is my wife's grail machine and we're nervous and excited to be getting it. Pics look really nice, i just hope its as nice in person. *crosses fingers*
So i set up a bank wire through my credit union and they do their wires through Western Union, of all places smh...the order went through on 3/8 and the funds came out that same day. Pinny has not recieved anything yet to date and their website says that it normally takes 1-2 business days to the Netherlands. The person im working with says that if its not received by 3/13, that she could order a trace on it. Any reason i should be worried?
Quoted from Skypilot:
Not with Pinny(Roel). but through a "Bank" it only takes 2 days. If he does not see it Monday I would probably do the trace.
Thanks for the affirmation. It sounds like Roel is a good guy and it seems like it through my communication with him. Hoping by Monday the funds go through.
Yeah i called them and they are going to sort it out. It's been near a month since we agreed to do the transaction!
Can someone show me where these two wires should go? These are from the light in the trunk and it appears that they have been snipped for whatever reason.
Any thoughts on how to fix a squeaky trap door? Its the flap and the springs that squeak.
I'm having a self-caused issued with one of the outlane eddy sensors:
Basically, the sensor trips (when activated by hocus pocus) when the sling activates. I dripped some solder onto the pot-meter but didn't realize it until after playing. cleaned it off and the problem still persists. The problem followed the board from the left to the right. Any thoughts?
Quoted from Drewblood419:
Get a pair of the pinbits auto eddy boards for the outlanes they are worth every penny the one for the trunk is a must too but the original trunk eddy board doesn't go out as often as the outlanes do
They dont have them in stock. But i was able to resolve the issue. There was just another tiny bit of solder on the chip (?) that is on the eddy board. Cleaned it off and it works again!
Quoted from Drewblood419:
A lot of the time they show on their website as out of stock but if you call them they most likely have them in but haven't updated the site. That's what happened when I got mine.
I'll keep that in mind if/when i decide to upgrade the boards. Other than my stupid error, they've been pretty good. No nail polish in the house though! lol
Just have to say again that the flow of this game is so great! I reached Grand Finale for the first time yesterday and nailing all the shots was so satisfying
A must do in my book. You can "cheat" otherwise by starting illusions without shooting the trunk hole.
Anyone have any issues with the spirit ring not letting the ball go after scoring?
Anyone have any tips to reinforce the trunk? I'm probably going to get a new one and want to make it chip resistant and I've looked into fiberglass filler. Something really easy that I can spread on, let harden and be done with it. I know there's the silicon trunk being developed but don't want to wait too long for it.
Quoted from nickbuol:
Others had done the fiberglass "fix" and had it last several years (and still going strong)... Here is one from this thread:
I guess we can look at it from different angles.... The trunk itself is brittle... We can all agree to that. The fiberglass method tries to make it solid as a rock... strong solid surfaces dissipate energy throughout the entire area, thus the impact, as long as the fiberglass is thick and strong enough, dissipates through the whole trunk and actually transfers some of the energy into the connections under the trunk as well. The fiberglass also is holding the trunk plastic together stronger than any sticky tape or even Dynamat adhesive. The fiberglass essentially bonds to the plastic vs. just sticking to it.
Now, the negative that I could see is that if you hit the exact same spot over and over, you could actually dent the trunk plastic. That would take a lot of super precise shots.
Now take the foam tape or Dynamat. They both are designed to absorb some of the impact. The foam probably has the most absorption because it can compress the most. It is also the least capable in preventing the trunk itself from flexing when hit and this, since the trunks are brittle as I first mentioned, would be the most susceptible to flexing to the point of cracking. Brittle objects break when experiencing flex... Now, maybe not enough flex happens with the foam, but just saying that the flexing is what will cause cracks first, and even that probably isn't a concern. Now the Dynamat is somewhere in the middle. It is more rigid that the foam, but has less absorbing properties too. That extra rigidity should mean less flexing and less chance for cracking. That said, it isn't bonded to the trunk, and isn't as rigid as the fiberglass.
Again, I am not knocking it, just going off of the logic above. I am sure that for all practical purposes any of these methods work well. It comes across like I am really disliking the foam, but I'm not. So many people have done that with great success. I just know that I had foam pieces inside my original trunk (installed by the previous owner) and that trunk was broken badly. I am sure that different foam, and maybe more strategic placement would have helped, but it has failed, so I wanted to look into something different.
That is when I looked beyond simple pinball trunks and into general science of strength, including impact fracture resistance. I came across scientific articles, yeah I dug that deep, about anything from the automotive and aerospace industries (carbon fiber) to simple concrete to military uses as ballistic armor where fiber-reinforced materials are used. (for plastics it is fiber-reinforced plastic, or FRP)... One of the more every day example is that of concrete. Concrete seems hard, but is actually considered very brittle. You can break and crack a concrete slab with a few hits with a sledgehammer. Now, if you reinforce that concrete with rebar, or even fiber mesh that is being used in a lot of places now, you may eventually "dent" or damage the surface if hit enough in the same spot, but you will have a much harder time creating that catastrophic crack. There are people that study these properties and you can find test results for that, as well as any fiber/resin composite reinforcements, where they test the resilience and strength of the materials in a testing lab. The reason I mention that is because in the concrete example, I kept telling myself that you have the ground under the concrete to act like an absorber (like the foam), but sure enough, there are people whose jobs are to test the stuff with nothing behind (or under) it. One of the tests that I found was a 24" x 24" x 4" concrete slab and a same sized slab with rebar, and another with the fiber mesh in the middle. These were all held up by 2 edges (sort of like a bridge only attached on 2 ends) and they used a press for a continuous pressure test as well as a dropped weight test. All were tested to their breaking points and obviously 2 slabs of each kind was used. The fiber mesh held together the best, the rebar was the most rigid, but its biggest strength was limited close to the rebar itself. The plain concrete failed pretty easily.
Another example would be the ballistic armor. When I found that information, it really seemed to hit home. How do you create a lightweight, super strong material that can stop projectiles? Fiber-reinforcemed plastics.... So many similarities to trying to protect our trunks from the pinball projectile to be ignored.
So I used those details, plus other information that is available online, that says that the best way to prevent something brittle from breaking is to not expose it to any stress, and the 2nd best was to prevent it from flexing. If that prevention also is bonded to the brittle material, should a crack occur, it will still hold up without chipping or losing chunks more-so than anything else.
So yeah, I over researched this stuff... Even so, I would still argue that someone using foam, which allows the most flexing of the brittle trunk, will still be very successful in significantly increasing the longevity of their trunks. Nothing can completely protect them from wear (short of a different material used for the trunk itself). I just went for a bit of overkill. Plus it gave me a good excuse to get a fiberglass kit. You would be surprised at how many uses you can find for adding fiberglass around the hour for repairs, or improved strength.
The only way that anyone would ever know how well these methods compare, under normal usage type tests, would be to get 3 identical trunks from same production runs, apply the impact reinforcement and/or absorber, and scientifically test them. Nobody is going to do that because they all seem to work just fine.
Whew. Enough rambling there. Again, that was all from my research a while back, but that does not mean that it is the end all, be all of this question and I am sure that a foamed trunk or dynamated trunk or fiberglassed trunk will all last a really long time. Almost as long as this post. LOL
So the answer is B. It's always B.
The stock eddy boards (for triggering Hocus Pocus magnasave) have pentiometers (sp?) that are adjusted by little knobs. These can be nudged or vibrated out of adjustment, resulting in a switch error, having to go under the playfield, and readjusting. The Pinbits Auto eddy boards adjust automatically, so you should never have to go under to readjust.
Quoted from Georgeh:
Just got by Eddie board fix from German pinball . But no instructions does anyone have any for me so I can install it
that's easy, All warm white or natural white for the GI and backbox. Color matched inserts. you'll thank me later
Those metal strips are flat wire leads that go to the pop bumper lights. If/when you rebuild the pop bumpers, you'll have to pull those out in order to remove the lights, which you'll have to do to remove the housing. You can/should replace them with leads that are just insulated wire
What you can replace it with
Quoted from Damien:
Yes, I know that
I tried adjusting it and I still get the error. The coil stop was also bent a bit and I straightened it up but that also did not fix it. I may just replace the entire assembly.
Can anyone comment on the photos I posted with the Playfield blemishes. Wondering what I should do about the chipping on the insert and also the wood that is exposed?
You should just get flipper rebuild kits and rebuild your flippers. Will include new EOS switches. Your game will play much better with full strength flippers and new coil stops.
Quoted from Damien:
Do you happen to have a photo?
Do you have a manual? If not, download and print one off from ipdb. The manuals have exploded views of each of the mechs. What you have pictured is a fiber yoke. it works with a metal yoke to hold the plunger arm inside of a bracket of a pop bumper. You'll see it in the exploded view in the manual.
I would highly suggest rebuilding each of your pop bumpers if that was sitting on the bottom of the cabinet.
Quoted from Damien:
I actually just learned to solder when I replaced the flippers in my IJ, but when it comes to the board, I don't know that I'm that confident yet. Will likely call someone in.
So should I attempt to replace that car fuse with the proper 5A? What is the worst thing that could happen?
And does anyone know what JI21 affects in the game?
Worse that could happen is that it'll blow the fuse again. If it does blow the fuse, use the manual to see what that fuse is protecting and look for a short. If the guy put in a 15A car fuse, he could have ended up doing damage to whatever circuit that fuse was protecting.
EDIT: Per the manual, F109 is the fuse for GI string#2. If you put in a 5A fuse and it blows, you'll notice that there is a section of GI that is out. This is probably related to J120/J121 burnt connector you see. I would highly advise AGAINST soldering a 15A fuse in place of a 5A slow blow.
You will get an error message if your eddy sensor isnt working. But yes, hit one of the hocus pocus stand up targets, then roll the ball into one of the outlanes and the magnet should activate.
Damien. I want to help you out man, bit you've got to help yourself. A lot of the answers you're looking for can be found in the manual or by looking under the pf yourself. That's really the best way to learn about and resolve your issues. If you've tried things and are still stuck, then please come ask, but looking at the manual is the best resource for you.
Quoted from Damien:
Now it's even more confusing. F104 is blown, however, the ball trough is on F105?!?!
The template shows that F104 protects solenoids 9-16. Look at the table on the middle left to see which solenoids are which. One of those is shorted somewhere. Check each solenoid and wiring 1 by 1 until you can find the culprit. Usually it's a price of wire touching another price of wire or bare metal.
Quoted from Damien:
And here I was hoping to learn some things about my machine... Take a look at someone like LTG, who generously chimes in and helps anyone at any level with any problem they have. That's the kind of people that make this a "good thing".
Sorry I hijacked "your" thread with question, man.
I think what he was trying to say is that you might get more help if you posted in the tech forum. Yes, there are primarily ToM owners that post and follow this thread, but some of the problems you're posting here are universal across all WPC machines and you'll be able to get more help if your thread were more visible to the "outsiders."
Quoted from Damien:
Just took apart my trunk, and I think part of the issue I'm having has to do with the trunk wiring. Was looking up part A-20029, but looks like it's sold out everywhere.
Does anyone happen to have one of these for sale?
Pinbits is great. They have a lot of goodies for this game (auto eddy boards)
Quoted from yzfguy:
Didn't know that was an option. We haven't had any issues, but I have often thought the ball really doesn't need to be held there so long.... changing setting now
I've had the magnet catch the ball, but the ball was still "wobbling" with the magnet and has gone down the outlane before lol
that is amazing! If I were to do speaker lights, I would go for a dim purple, so as not to stand out from the entire package, but that's just me. Nice work!
I would imagine it would have to do with using a dimmer bulb as opposed to "dimming" a bulb. I personally don't care for speaker lights so I haven't installed any myself, but I'm sure you could find something to your liking.
Most likely something is not lined up correctly or mounted wrong. Make sure the ramp is lined up with the wireform correctly.
A minor inconvenience for a far superior product, from what I've read. When my stock boards start acting up, I won't have any issues drilling a hole or two to put in a board that I "shouldn't" have to touch again.
It enables the spinning saw mod, and I guess some early production games had a post between the flippers that would come up. Not necessary unless you wanted to add the spinning saw mod. Plus it's a home edition ROM, so no coin-drop if you wanted to put it out on location.
Quoted from nickbuol:
I've been following them on their progress, but ouch. $125 USD is a bit rich for my blood. Maybe not for others, but when looking close at their pictures, like the ones of them boxed for shipping, there look to me to be very noticeable paint issues (areas that should be gold not being gold, etc). For that much money, they should be a little more spot on.
$125 is pretty steep...paint doesnt look bad at all though. There might be some spots where the gold isnt as dark, but it looks good overall. I'm considering this or a new plastic trunk with fiberglass reinforcement, which would be half as much. I dont think i would care to see the trunk flex during play, and I know that balls have ricocheted off of the trunk hole back out, and I dont think i want to lose that aspect of the game.
Quoted from nickbuol:
I don't know. Looking at one of their own pictures from yesterday, these don't look good "enough" for me to pay the price. There is a lot of "thin" gold layer on these that make those parts look more like silver than gold.
I've already done a fiberglass reinforced trunk and have, knock on wood, had zero issues with it, plus is responds to hits the way that it should in my book. I would be worried about bounce.
Looking at the pics on my laptop, instead of my phone, it does seem that the paint is a bit thinner than i originally thought. Just reinforces my thought of getting a new plastic trunk and reinforcing it with fiberglass.
There's a chance that any of the pins available today could be a remake. But I think you're going to be waiting for an unknown, when there are many available now. Also, AFM and MM have not decreased in value because of the remake, and I've read that the remakes do play differently from the originals...FWIW.
If you're in the market for one, I would get an original now, as opposed to waiting for an unknown amount of time IF someone decides to remake it. And that's a BIG if.
Quoted from Beerpressure:
Played this at replayfx and the ball got jammed up so many times. Really dumb idea since it's hard to get the ball loose without taking the glass off.
Yeah, I mean, the game is relatively easy to begin with, and does turning the trunk really make it that more difficult? Bowen can hit that shot regardless if it was turned or not. I'm not even sure he missed one time in that stream. If they are going to do that, they should at least put a post there to keep the ball from getting jammed.
Regardless, it's more fun to play casually, as opposed to competitively. I tried to emulate Bowen's strategy, and it completely sucked the fun out of what makes the game so fun; that is combo shots, flow, and going for the Grande Finale.
Get a trough jam protector. It'll keep the balls from magnetically sticking in the trough after you drain. It's a must imo
It usually gets knocked because it can be too easy for good players. For me, it's a nice step away from the more difficult pins and like mentioned the shots are butter smooth and rival Steve Ritchie's best designs, imo.
Side note, just ordered side mirrors for it and can't wait to get them installed!
John wart has been unreliable as of late. I would suggest another source, like action pinball
I could see using a lower quality LED would give you issues with flickering. If you try a high quality LED, it shouldn't be a problem. I have Comet Pinball 2SMD LEDs in natural white and have no issues, in both GI and inserts. I'm not sure how much shipping would be to Norway, but Comets are my first choice in LEDs.
I worked on the mech for quite a bit and tried to isolate the squeak, and every time I thought I got it, it never really went away. I've lubed every moving part of the mech with Super Lube, but never was able to get rid of it, so I've kind of given up.
Quoted from Fooped:
That's the one. Where can I actually buy it?
You have to PM german-pinball (Ingo). He's a good guy with quality boards. Have bought a few of his boards and does awesome work. A must have.
For your Hocus Pocus issue, if you haven't checked your magnet connections or eddy boards, I would start there. Go into the test menu to see if your magnets work (if they pulse). Then check your oulane eddy boards. Make sure the pots are adjusted properly (turn the pot until the red LED light turns red, then back off enough until it turns off). If you find that the magnet pulses in test, and the game still fails to catch the ball, your eddy boards could use a replacement. Get the Pinbits auto adjust eddy boards. you'll need one for each side.
Take off the trunk by removing the 4 screweds on top. You should then have access to a collar nut that I believe is 1". Use this collar nut to tighten the assembly. You shouldn't have to take the entire thing apart for this. Obviously align it first before tightening.
The solenoid works in test mode. Make sure your switches are adjusted and activated properly. I had mentioned this in your other thread that you are referring to.
Quoted from Binger:
I did see your reply in my other post. I appreciate the help. I did as you suggested. I have the game running with the glass off. I can either roll a ball into the switches or press with my finger to activate the center targets and ramps switches. The switches seem to be ok. They register in the matrix and the register points and light effects. If a diode was faulty would I still be getting those results? I am usually fairly adept at troubleshooting....but the fact it just does not seem to be getting the signal to open is....mystifying. I read some other posts about magnetized brackets and stronger coils....but I don't think I have those issues.
I'll have to test my game when I get home. I'll let you know what I find out. It shouldn't be too difficult, but we all know how these machines can behave.
Just a thought, I think there is a switch or two in the trap door mech itself. I believe one registers for the popper, and one registers if the trapdoor is opened or closed. Can you try to test those switches? It might not think the door is closed.
Quoted from javagrind888:
I scanned the thread and didn't see anyone with my issue. Forgive me if I missed it.
When I have two balls locked for multi-ball, the trunk spins back and forth constantly trying to drop the ball in, even if I haven't shot the ball out yet. If I hit the trunk magnet, it works fine, but it thinks there's a ball to grab and drop even when there's not.
I've taken the plastic trunk off and I don't see anything that looks off. I'm very new to pinball repair. Does anyone have any pointers for this?
Possibly check the Trunk Eddy sensor in switch test. Use a ball to test the sensor that is under the playfield. I would also check that all of the trunk optos are working correctly in Trunk Test, or if the Trunk opto interrupter is broken, cracked, or misaligned.
Quoted from tbaum:
I'm considering buying a #ToM that is being neglected at a local bar. The trunk works but it is banged up (bent magnet on front), the playfield looks like it isn't too worn, but it is really dirty (need to look closer). Lights are out in places, need total shop job and rubbers replaced.
I can post some pictures when I see it next. But I had a few questions.
What's a reasonable price for routed and in serious need of care ToM?
How hard will it be to get the replacement pieces (trunk magnet/plate) etc?
I would say 5500 for one in need of a lot of work. Really depends on PF, cab, and board condition. I'd check for battery damage if it is indeed neglected at a bar. Is the bar selling? I'd ask them first!
Quoted from fiberdude120:
For 7000 or less you could get a beautiful one. Why pay 5500 for one that is a mess?
It would really have to depend on condition. It could be dirty but clean up really nicely. It really depends on what the seller (if there is indeed one) values the game at. If it's not for sale, or they are asking market price for it, then best to pass on it anyways. too many unknowns to drop a solid value on the machine. It was just a starting point.
Quoted from javagrind888:
Ah, ok. That makes more sense. The newer pinball machines made have more permanent counts right? (inquiring for future buys too)
Also, still seeking someone who has the Laseriffic topper...
Number of plays really shouldn't matter. A machine with 5000 plays should look and feel clean and solid if it was maintained properly throughout its life. I would never pass on a machine because the number of plays was too high. It's always about condition.
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