Thanks fellas.

In the club with a game that was in someone's basement for 22 years! Need leds and a good shop but it's really nice.

For the leds I'm going to go with color match inserts....what's everyone's opinion on g.i. and if you wouldn't mind posting some of your pictures that would be great. I feel like the comet sunlight will work well

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No one color matches inserts any more.

It looks trashy.

But its your game, do as you please!

Color matched inserts look good, color matched GI looks bad. For GI I would go all soft white. LED OCD and GI OCD are a must.

When I started out with pinball I also color matched the inserts but pretty soon I realized it actually looks much better with simple white/sunlight LEDs instead.

It's also easier to just order a large bunch of whites instead of x green, y red, z blue and so on and then always count wrong and have too few of a certain color and having to reorder more.

Speaking of LEDs I have three insert lights (shoot again, hat magic, and the second T in theatre) that don’t turn off all the way, they dim a little but won’t turn off. I tried new bulbs but I get the same result. Anyone know what might be the problem?

Ghosting?

Try installing the LEDOCD board.

Perhaps swap the easy things around first. Bulbs you know don’t stay on. Bulb holders as well. Move your problem ones to spots that weren’t an issue. See if there is a pattern of what moves and what doesn’t. All for free AKA no new parts needed for initial troubleshooting.

Do they stay on or act similar if you swap them with back out with incandescent bulbs? This could help find/rule out if it's something else. It could also be the brand of LED's.

I have full LED in my TOM and have no ghosting, with no LEDOCD board installed.

So I have an LED OCD and GI OCD boards installed. All bulbs are comet 2smd. I tried replacing the bulbs for new ones, and moved the bulb to other spots not ghosting, same result on the same three spots. Unfortunately I don’t have any incandescent bulbs to test.

Maybe this is a dumb idea, but...have you checked for bad ground on other bulbs? Are there any bulbs that should be glowing more brightly at the same time these other bulbs are glowing when they're not supposed to?

In other electrical systems, a bad ground can cause current to flow in unwanted paths. In cars, water intrusion can cause bad grounds, especially on older cars, and the symptom is that a bulb where the bad ground is doesn't light up as brightly as it should, while some other nearby bulb lights up at the same time, dimly and at the same time the badly grounded bulb is supposed to be lit, because the current that's supposed to be returning via one ground, winds up going a different way, through the neighboring bulb before reaching a different ground.

I've never seen anything like this on a pinball machine, but given the way the lighting is handled, I'd guess maybe something like that could be happening? Honestly, the fact that the bulbs are LED and the fact that there's a controller board governing them, I would've guessed this sort of thing wouldn't happen. But I don't know anything about how these LED-based retrofits are implemented, and I suppose it's possible they still inherit some of the behaviors of a purely incandescent system.

It’s worth a shot, i’ll sand the ground lug a bit.

Bad or leaking diode somewhere in the matrix?

I hope that’s not it, my skill set is not good at that level of figuring out issues. All three lights are on different rows/columns on the matrix. Would that rule the diode theory out, or make it more likely?

How to the problem lamps look in all lamp test?

How do they look in single lamp test?

Maybe a clue there?

In single lamp, when I test one lamp, one or two others will light up as well but a bit dimmer. So if I test the first “T” both of the “Special” lights will light up. If I light the middle trunk hit bulb, the Hat Magic will also turn on. It happens with quite a few lights.

Single lamp test should only light up one lamp.

If other lamps are lighting, the problem has to be that a wire is broken off or shorting, or a diode has fallen off or failed.

Diode failures are not common, but broken off or broken leads are pretty common.

In the matrix the diodes block the other lamps from lighting in the single lamp test.

Being systematic is way more productive than trying to see everything at once. It can be maddening.
Although a quick run thru of the lamps sometimes finds a broken diode that partially fell off, or a broken wire.

The matrix chart shows the wire colors and row and column locations.

Some good info here:

https://homepinballrepair.com/pinball-lamp-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting/

Its also a good idea to check the connectors in the backbox to make sure they are good and solid and the wires are not loose in the IDC connections or loose broken pins on the circuit board.

Here's three pieces of friendly advice for you when asking for help like this.

1. Remove all 3rd party add-ons (such as LED OCD and GI OCD) when reporting issues. This eliminates one variable. If the problem goes away when you remove these 3rd party add-ons you know that they are the cause and you should follow up with the manufacturer of the product.
2. Consult the manual. It contains a lot of very useful information - including the matrix tables.
3. Use the names (bonus points for using the numbers) of the bulbs in the matrix tables.

Translation of your post:

When the single lamp test is on "(T)HEATRE" (lamp 11) the "SPECIAL" (lamp 81) is also dimly illuminated.

When the single lamp test is on "TRUNK HIT 2" (lamp 51) the "HAT MAGIC" (lamp 71) is also dimly illuminated.

You should do this systematically as pinballinreno suggests. Take your time. Consult the table. Look at the numbers.

My opinion:

• Exclude the OCD boards by removing them. I don't think you have a diode problem.
• Use incandescent or non-ghosting LED bulbs to exclude LED ghosting as the cause.
• If you do all that and you still have simultaneously erroneous dimly illuminated bulbs then you have an issue.
• Exclude the driver board by using a lamp matrix tester.

Thanks I appreciate the feedback and guidance. I had the same thought on the OCD, and the issue still occurs with it removed.

Here’s the matrix

I noticed that on row 1, (T)heatre 11, turns on Special 81, and Trunk hit (2) 51, turns on Hat magic 71. If i chase the Red Brown wire from j133 on the driver board, i should find a diode at one of the sockets that controls the whole row, or should all the sockets have a diode?

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This is from an old WPC-89 manual. It shows how the matrix is wired. You can also look at the top right of the matrix table (that you posted) where it will show how each lamp is wired and where the diode is placed.

wpc89_lamp_matrix_wiring.jpg

Thanks, that’s very helpful. I’ll get some time Tuesday to mess around with it again.

If you leave GIoCD and LEDOCD installed, you can use them for testing. The config software has a manual mode which allows you to activiate certain LEDs manually. Good for testing.

OK, new lead on this ghosting issue. The previous owner re-flowed and repaired things on the board. I have a strong suspicion that's where the problem is. I will take the board off and see what the back of it looks like when I get a chance.

For me, its not too much about ghosting.

Its about the rapid flashing of the LEDs compared to the incadescents, I find it distracting and annoying.

I like the more controlled ramping up and down that the LEDOCD accomplishes.

I also like 100% LED's in my games, so a GIOCD is required on games that utilize dimming effects.

Yeah it fixes the flashing and the dimming of the GI makes a huge difference, especially on games like ToM. It's night and day difference.

So, just for clarity, which board or boards do you need on a ToM? I was looking at these boards for sale and got a little confused on how many are needed and which one exactly. GI only for ToM or do you need an additional OCD board for the inserts?

I turned off the dimming on my game and I do miss that whole effect.

You need both the LEDOCD and GIOCD.

Roger that. Thank you

Question about the "rest" switch for the captive ball:

Is it supposed to be activated when the ball is sitting there at rest? Or is it meant to be unactivated when the ball is sitting at rest?

Mine is open (unactivated) when the ball is at rest and gets closed (activated) only when the ball moves backwards. The way it is right now looks like both of those captive ball lane switches are open normally and then if the ball starts to move, it triggers the rest switch, and if it gets all the way up to the end, it triggers the second switch. Sort of like how some games have a wire gate on a ramp entrance to let the game know the ball is on the way up the ramp (and sometimes makes a corresponding sound) and the second switch is the confirmation it got all the way around (as opposed to falling short and coming back down).

I have to replace some broken star posts (part # 03-8319-xx) in my ToM in the lower playfield and I'm trying to figure out what factory color the star posts are. In my game it appears most are amber (red?) but I also have two clear ones at the bottom of each sling. The manual lists only one color 03-8319-13 (clear) but I'm skeptical that clear is the right color. Can someone chime in here? What is the actual factor color for all of the lower playfield star posts? Thanks!

Amber, the clear one is in the backbox.

Many thanks!

Having the same problem.

Is the trunk eddy sensor registering in switch test (test with a pinball)? My trunk "stopped" too, but in test mode it was fine. Turns out the potentiometer on the eddy board just needed to be adjusted (LED barely off, as per the manual).

Were you able to resolve this issue? If yes, what did you do to fix it? Thanks.

Check the manual.

No sir, not yet. I played the game the night before I went on vacation and noticed the problem then. Going to check it once I get home. They game was playing flawless until this popped up. Never had this problem before even with the first one I had in the collection. Will keep you posted.

I had a similar issue on my game recently.

I went into test mode and started trying switches. Most everything checked out fine until I rolled a couple of balls into the trunk so they went down into the subway and stopped at the lock switches. I saw Lock 1 come on, which was good, then Lock 2 for the second ball and Lock 3 for the third. While doing this though, I saw Lock 1 blip off and then on again. This didn't seem right, so I focused on the Lock 1 switch more.

It wasn't doing it every time, but on occassion, it would not register the ball being in that location. This is a pretty crucial switch for many things including correct trunk multiball start, launching balls back out the trap door and a few others. What I'm saying is, when this switch is confusing the game, all kinds of strange things start happening.

I removed the switch for a closer look and it turns out the lever arm had gotten sloppy. Like it had developed too much play in it so at times it was getting pushed off to the side instead of straight down. This then was contacting the sides of the slot in the metal subway portion that those three switches go into and that interference was causing the missed switch signals.

I didn't have a new switch on hand, will order one though, so in the meantime, I carefully pinched the sides of the metal lever arm a little more closely together so it wouldn't have that sloppy side to side movement. And it seemed to work as that weird trunk / multiball oddness is gone.

Moral of the story: check switches in test mode and test them in different combinations (like more than one at a time like with additional balls in those lock positions) to see if something acts different than what you would expect. Then focus on that.

I've been fiddling with trapdoor switches, particularly the one for the trapdoor raise coil, and I noticed that the actuator becomes loose and starts to drift towards the nearby spring, which seems like it might be activating it (again, and possibly over and over again) when the mechanism bounces back down.

Thanks for this rundown.. I'm experiencing this problem currently and have been suspecting that switch (along with ball magnetism) to be the cause of either: locked balls being immediately ejected by the trapdoor (the pin that stops balls in the subway is intact), or multiball starting prematurely.

Well, my repair of lock switch 1 didn’t last very long. It’s back to acting weird again. I still think this switch is the culprit although I’m not convinced it’s acting alone. That trap door VUK switch might be hanging up too. Seems really hard to see it though. There’s so much stuff in the way.

Will get a new lock 1 switch for starters and then go from there. One thing at a time might be the best approach so you actually know what fixed it.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/theatre-of-magic-unusual-trunk-multiball-and-jackpot-issues

More trunk woes.....this is the issue I'm having....any my optos/ switches and Eddie's checkout ....so frustrating.

I believe it's my subway opto....I loaded up the subway with balls and then went into switch test and the subway opto was randomly triggering. I'm also having issues ball the balls not progressing down the ball trough

All cleaned up and working 100% need to send my habit trails to Chris after the first of the year for new plating

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Does anyone know where I can find a replacement flap for the shooter ramp? I can find the flaps for the plastic ramps but not the shooter one.

Hello, I cant seem to find a 01-13892.1 Ramp Guard. My guard was missing from the machine when I got it. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how I might find one?

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Tough to find.

Another pinsider posted a workaround previously, maybe try this:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/theatre-of-magic-club/page/58#post-5300701

Marco Specialities doesn't have any?

Yep, that part fits perfectly with very little modification.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/01-15200.1-2