(Topic ID: 43909)

Theatre of Magic Club

By Nilroc

11 years ago


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There are 4,295 posts in this topic. You are on page 30 of 86.
#1451 7 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Guys my trunkis off centre - is this just an adjustment of the grub screw to re-align?
Cheers
Neil

Underneath the playfield beneath the trunk is a disc called the opto interrupter. It has four notches on it. That interrupter disc is held onto the trunk shaft with an allen wrench screw. You loosen that screw and adjust where those notches sit relative to the shaft. This governs where the trunk stops when it changes faces. I hope that helps!

#1452 7 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Underneath the playfield beneath the trunk is a disc called the opto interrupter. It has four notches on it. That interrupter disc is held onto the trunk shaft with an allen wrench screw. You loosen that screw and adjust where those notches sit relative to the shaft. This governs where the trunk stops when it changes faces. I hope that helps!

Agreed. Here is a photo to add to what jsa said. If yours is broken, replace it with the metal one.... Mine looked solid until I had to remove it when I had trunk alignment issues too, and I noticed that it cracked up near where screw was. Bought the metal one and haven't had a problem since.

Now, if yours is lined up at the start of a game, and then stops "mid-turn" then that is a different problem. If it is just always out of alignment, then this is your fix.

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#1453 7 years ago

I just started having an issue recently where the trunk stops moving mid game. it will start up again the next time I reset the machine.
it's random in it's occurrence. it can play like 20 games fine then all the sudden...
I'm using rom 1.4hb don't know if that has anything to do with it.

#1454 7 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

I just started having an issue recently where the trunk stops moving mid game. it will start up again the next time I reset the machine.
it's random in it's occurrence. it can play like 20 games fine then all the sudden...
I'm using rom 1.4hb don't know if that has anything to do with it.

Does this happen when the trunk is hit while turning?

#1455 7 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

I just started having an issue recently where the trunk stops moving mid game. it will start up again the next time I reset the machine.

A couple of fixes for you:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/if-your-tom-trunk-is-acting-up-clean-the-gear-boxjunk-in-the-trunk

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tom-trunk-error-leons-fix-anyone-done-this

#1456 7 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

I just started having an issue recently where the trunk stops moving mid game. it will start up again the next time I reset the machine.
it's random in it's occurrence. it can play like 20 games fine then all the sudden...
I'm using rom 1.4hb don't know if that has anything to do with it.

I had the same issue, until I installed an "inhibit" relay. Triggered by the trunk motor, this prevents the Eddy circuit from triggering while the trunk is spinning. $5 fix:
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#1457 7 years ago

Hey guys I am getting a TOM fresh off European route, what will be the major issues? Common problems with this game?

#1458 7 years ago
Quoted from oropuro:

Hey guys I am getting a TOM fresh off European route, what will be the major issues? Common problems with this game?

I'd say common issues mentioned here in this topic include:

- Extra post mounted to right of trunk, usually needs to be removed
- Trunk damage around the outhole
- Trunk gearbox grease has turned into molasses, needs to be opened, de-gunked and re-greased
- Magna-save magnet rings go bad in various ways
- Optos get old and fail. They are used to determine which way the trunk faces, whether or not a ball enters the trunk, and the ball trough.
- Trunk sticks when it's hit, can be fixed with Ingo's hardware fix

#1459 7 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

I'd say common issues mentioned here in this topic include:
- Extra post mounted to right of trunk, usually needs to be removed
- Trunk damage around the outhole
- Trunk gearbox grease has turned into molasses, needs to be opened, de-gunked and re-greased
- Magna-save magnet rings go bad in various ways
- Optos get old and fail. They are used to determine which way the trunk faces, whether or not a ball enters the trunk, and the ball trough.
- Trunk sticks when it's hit, can be fixed with Ingo's hardware fix

what do you mean by the magna save magnet rings go bad? I don't really want to shell out for the auto eddy sensors right now, but I would like to make the save magnets more reliable. They seem to work now, but only if the ball is going slowly.

#1460 7 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

what do you mean by the magna save magnet rings go bad? I don't really want to shell out for the auto eddy sensors right now, but I would like to make the save magnets more reliable. They seem to work now, but only if the ball is going slowly.

Mine are the same magnets in the spirit ring and magna save (outlanes) that I had when I first got the game, so I don't think this necessarily happens often. However, I've read in this topic over time that people have had some issues with them losing efficacy or otherwise acting goofy and replacing them. My experience is the ball doesn't necessarily have to be going slow, but it can't be going super fast and it must be in the precise right location for the roll-over magnets to work. The spirit ring is more forgiving.

#1461 7 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

I just started having an issue recently where the trunk stops moving mid game. it will start up again the next time I reset the machine.
it's random in it's occurrence. it can play like 20 games fine then all the sudden...
I'm using rom 1.4hb don't know if that has anything to do with it.

This sounds very much like the hardware design flaw, order one of Ingo's replacement boards, if there are still any available, as described in the link Canea provided.

#1462 7 years ago
Quoted from ramegoom:

I had the same issue, until I installed an "inhibit" relay. Triggered by the trunk motor, this prevents the Eddy circuit from triggering while the trunk is spinning. $5 fix:

interesting, don't think I would of put those two together as being the cultprit - eddy board and motor. guess it makes sense though.

Quoted from EvanDickson:

This sounds very much like the hardware design flaw, order one of Ingo's replacement boards, if there are still any available, as described in the link Canea provided.

I'll definitely check both options.

thank you

#1463 7 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

interesting, don't think I would of put those two together as being the cultprit - eddy board and motor. guess it makes sense though.

I'll definitely check both options.
thank you

They are actually the same thing. Ingo put it together as a nice and tidy replacement board.

#1464 7 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Mine are the same magnets in the spirit ring and magna save (outlanes) that I had when I first got the game, so I don't think this necessarily happens often. However, I've read in this topic over time that people have had some issues with them losing efficacy or otherwise acting goofy and replacing them. My experience is the ball doesn't necessarily have to be going slow, but it can't be going super fast and it must be in the precise right location for the roll-over magnets to work. The spirit ring is more forgiving.

Yes, mine are too, I've had the game for 15 or 16 years now. Spirit ring is flawless. and the saves appear to work but not if the ball is shooting fast past them. I can't believe their isn't some compensation for that to return the ball.

#1465 7 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

Yes, mine are too, I've had the game for 15 or 16 years now. Spirit ring is flawless. and the saves appear to work but not if the ball is shooting fast past them. I can't believe their isn't some compensation for that to return the ball.

The game should just have a call out for when "You didn't have the magic!"

#1466 7 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

The game should just have a call out for when "You didn't have the magic!"

mine just tries to save and fails. the magnets activate but the ball gets through.

#1467 7 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

mine just tries to save and fails. the magnets activate but the ball gets through.

Wow every time? I wonder if the magnets are poor/weak, or the eddy not sensitive enough that it's picking up the ball too late? That's the challenge I had before going to auto eddys -- too sensitive and it would go off for no reason, not sensitive enough and either not at all or too late. You might want to consider buying them.

#1468 7 years ago

Yeah the autoeddy boards were a great investment.

#1469 7 years ago

It gets it sometimes. If the ball Is bouncing between the lanes it will usually get it, but if ball Is just flying straight down Outlane most likely not.

Quoted from bhwolf:

Wow every time? I wonder if the magnets are poor/weak, or the eddy not sensitive enough that it's picking up the ball too late? That's the challenge I had before going to auto eddys -- too sensitive and it would go off for no reason, not sensitive enough and either not at all or too late. You might want to consider buying them.

#1470 7 years ago

Just finished a complete tear down shop job. New items added:
-ColorDMD
-Full coin taker LED kit
-pinbits auto eddy boards
-stainless steel ramp flaps(polished to a mirror shine)
-all visible cabinet hardware replaced with polished stainless
-Reese rails
-3D translite
-Ingo trunk board
-pingraphix blades
-all new titan silicone rubbers
-all coils removed cleaned and new sleeves installed
-rebuilt flippers
-lockdown bar receiver polished to a mirror and new decals installed
-legs evaporust and polished, bolt heads polished new leg leveled polished
-all visible metal on top of playfield polished to a mirror.
-cleaned and regreased trunk gearbox with superlube.
Probably missing a few more things that I did. I went over every inch of this machine and it was out of commission for a few months due to work schedules. Nothing more satisfying in this hobby than powering up the machine for the first time and have everything work right away.

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#1471 7 years ago

Anyone know where to buy nice laminated price/instruction cards?

#1472 7 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

mine just tries to save and fails. the magnets activate but the ball gets through.

I have noticed that when the magnet is tight to the core and pressed firmly to the playfield wood, the magnet is way more powerful.

When the magnets are loose they barely work.

I would like to know more about this behavior and work out a fix for it.

When my game was new the magnets worked flawlessly, although the left one was always a little weaker than the right.

If the spirit ring can grab the ball off the ramp from 3" away, Im certain that the PF magnets should be at least that powerful since they are the same magnet.

Does anyone think its the core of the magnet that needs to be looked at as far as magnetism? Or is it something else?

#1473 7 years ago
Quoted from GreenMachine19:

Anyone know where to buy nice laminated price/instruction cards?

pinballrebel.com and get some self laminating material to cover your printed cards?

#1474 7 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Does anyone think its the core of the magnet that needs to be looked at as far as magnetism? Or is it something else?

Not sure what you mean here? It's just a wire wound around, well, just a plastic or other ring. Maybe check the connections? Could be the amount of current running through it. Also pretty easy and inexpensive to replace...

#1475 7 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

If the spirit ring can grab the ball off the ramp from 3" away, Im certain that the PF magnets should be at least that powerful since they are the same magnet.
Does anyone think its the core of the magnet that needs to be looked at as far as magnetism? Or is it something else?

I think this is a known issue that's never really been resolved - maybe others can chime in more definitively. The left and the right magnets draw their power from two separate sources so one is less powerful (?) than the other. Generally the right is stronger than the left. The left sometimes won't slow the ball to a stop and results in a drain even when it shouldn't. My left magnet never slows the ball completely to a stop so it can outlane if you're not careful; right lane comes to a full stop, never drains. Just another Theatre quirk?

#1476 7 years ago
Quoted from GreenMachine19:

Anyone know where to buy nice laminated price/instruction cards?

i went with magnetic apron cover. i think it looks good!

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#1477 7 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

i went with magnetic apron cover. i think it looks good!

Me too! Love how they tie into their game blades as well. Don't forget Pinduino!

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#1478 7 years ago
Quoted from jyeakley:

Me too! Love how they tie into their game blades as well. Don't forget Pinduino!

how much of a gap do you have for the blades? I have no room and the blades would get torn up by the playfield.i think blades are cool but some pins there is no tolerance for them, or you have to be really careful when lifting or closing playfield.

#1479 7 years ago

The blades are made of vinyl so they are pretty tough. I'm just mindful and lift the playfield carefully.

#1480 7 years ago
Quoted from canea:

I think this is a known issue that's never really been resolved - maybe others can chime in more definitively. The left and the right magnets draw their power from two separate sources so one is less powerful (?) than the other. Generally the right is stronger than the left. The left sometimes won't slow the ball to a stop and results in a drain even when it shouldn't. My left magnet never slows the ball completely to a stop so it can outlane if you're not careful; right lane comes to a full stop, never drains. Just another Theatre quirk?

I have played other NIB ToM about the same time I got mine and the left magnet was always weaker than the right in all games I played, including mine. So I beleive its engineered that way from the start.

I have however noticed that when the coils are loosely fitted they are way less effective that if they are tightly fitted against the wood.

I an curious though if there is a stronger magnet available. It might be hard as the fuses blow on the magnets really easily when tinkering with them, or even if you do too many tests.

All I can say it that my 1980 Black Knight magna save stopped the ball securely no matter how fast the ball hit the outlane, and I think its the same magnet? Although all black Knights have burned off the PF artwork over the magnets, maybe due the the strong magnet?

And I havent seen any ToM PF's worn out over the magna-save yet. Is this by intent?

One other thought, maybe bore out the PF and install the silver core like on all modern games? Does this newer system give you more power? Or is it just to eliminate wear on the PF where the ball sits, as you can polish out the core as needed?

Seriously though that would kill off the magic trick as you would see the magnet, so I wouldnt advise it.

#1481 7 years ago

tested my magnets yesterday by manually activating hocus pocus and then rolling the balls toward them, caught it just about every time so the magnets work, the ball just gets buy during gameplay which unfortunately without stronger magnets I don't think can be helped.

#1482 7 years ago

Recently I replaced the balls in my taf and lah with premium balls for games with magnets and they get flipped around at least twice as much as the old balls. I wonder if new balls may have an effect on TOM ball save?

#1483 7 years ago
Quoted from ramegoom:

"inhibit" relay

Can you tell me more about this? what is the relay and how exactly it is hooked up.

#1484 7 years ago

Pretty simple. You need a 12 volt 5 terminal relay, small one like in the picture. Get them at mpja.com or anyone who sells arduino stuff. Wire the relay coil to the motor that drives the trunk. Then use the NORMALLY CLOSED and COMMON pins of the relay to disable the diode on the eddy board as shown in the pic. You need to desolder one lead of the diode, put one wire on that desoldered lead and the other wire in the hole that the diode was soldered into.

That's it. Cost for the relay is less than $2.

When the motor runs, the diode disconnects and the eddy board doesn't send the signal to the CPU. When the motor stops, the eddy board functions normally.

#1485 7 years ago

To explain further, the glitch in the original program causes the trunk motor to hang up if there should be a signal from the eddy circuit while the motor is running. So, you hit the pickup 3 times during game play, setting the trunk in motion. Then another ball hits the pickup during the motor movement and the glitch does its thing.

A software programming modification would call out ignoring the eddy pickup signal during motor motion. Not gonna happen, so we need to do a hardware modification.

While I'm on the eddy circuit, the biggest problem with failure of the circuit is the poor connections on those flimsy connectors. If the sensor connector pins pick up corrosion (which they all do) or lose spring tension to the pins (which they all do), you're forever tweaking the trimpot to get the circuit to function normally.

Might as well mention the carbon trimpot too...they tend to get flaky and lose their setting. Easily replaced if you can solder down to PC board component level.

So one of the easy fixes for that two pin sensor connector is to cut it off, strip the wires, and then solder those two pins directly to the sensor wires. Connector is eliminated from the mix. You need to be very familiar with soldering techniques for tiny parts.

The other connector has the same issues, so you can solder directly, or replace that connector. You need the tools to replace those small AMP terminals, though. Hit the pins with a pencil eraser to clean up any corrosion on them. Temporary fix, but it does solve the eddy board issue without having to replace the board. The self-adjusting boards will get flaky too, if the connectors don't connect properly, so replacing the board doesn't always fix the actual problem.

#1486 7 years ago
Quoted from ramegoom:

To explain further, the glitch in the original program causes the trunk motor to hang up if there should be a signal from the eddy circuit while the motor is running. So, you hit the pickup 3 times during game play, setting the trunk in motion. Then another ball hits the pickup during the motor movement and the glitch does its thing.
A software programming modification would call out ignoring the eddy pickup signal during motor motion. Not gonna happen, so we need to do a hardware modification.
While I'm on the eddy circuit, the biggest problem with failure of the circuit is the poor connections on those flimsy connectors. If the sensor connector pins pick up corrosion (which they all do) or lose spring tension to the pins (which they all do), you're forever tweaking the trimpot to get the circuit to function normally.
Might as well mention the carbon trimpot too...they tend to get flaky and lose their setting. Easily replaced if you can solder down to PC board component level.
So one of the easy fixes for that two pin sensor connector is to cut it off, strip the wires, and then solder those two pins directly to the sensor wires. Connector is eliminated from the mix. You need to be very familiar with soldering techniques for tiny parts.
The other connector has the same issues, so you can solder directly, or replace that connector. You need the tools to replace those small AMP terminals, though. Hit the pins with a pencil eraser to clean up any corrosion on them. Temporary fix, but it does solve the eddy board issue without having to replace the board. The self-adjusting boards will get flaky too, if the connectors don't connect properly, so replacing the board doesn't always fix the actual problem.

I believe one of the decisions german-pinball made making the ToM boards was to cut the signal but not the power to the eddy boards while the motor turns. This is relevant with auto-adjusting eddy boards because you don't want them to recalibrate every time the motor turns.

#1487 7 years ago

I was curious about those vinyl apron covers, can you still put the price and instruction cards after installing it

#1488 7 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

I believe one of the decisions german-pinball made making the ToM boards was to cut the signal but not the power to the eddy boards while the motor turns. This is relevant with auto-adjusting eddy boards because you don't want them to recalibrate every time the motor turns.

Don't know how german_pinball does his, but the way I did mine was to disable the connection at D3 on the Eddy board. The circuit stays alive, but interrupting D3 prevents the output signal from getting to the CPU during the time the relay is energized. Power is never interrupted.

#1489 7 years ago
Quoted from ramegoom:

Don't know how german_pinball does his, but the way I did mine was to disable the connection at D3 on the Eddy board. The circuit stays alive, but interrupting D3 prevents the output signal from getting to the CPU during the time the relay is energized. Power is never interrupted.

Yep, that's pretty much how he did it as well. His schematic is based on the concept by Leon Borre.

#1490 7 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

I was curious about those vinyl apron covers, can you still put the price and instruction cards after installing it

I don't believe so. They are, as far as I know, just designed to go overtop of the whole apron, including the instruction card locations.

I think that is kind of the point... To make the whole apron seem like one solid piece. I kind of like it, but at the same time I don't have a problem with the stock apron either.

#1491 7 years ago
Quoted from nickbuol:

I don't believe so. They are, as far as I know, just designed to go overtop of the whole apron, including the instruction card locations.
I think that is kind of the point... To make the whole apron seem like one solid piece. I kind of like it, but at the same time I don't have a problem with the stock apron either.

The one I have (see above pic) is magnetic. Just lays over top...easy add, easy remove.

#1492 7 years ago
Quoted from jyeakley:

The one I have (see above pic) is magnetic. Just lays over top...easy add, easy remove.

Yup. Exactly.

#1493 7 years ago

got the 3d translate - its superb!

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#1494 7 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

got the 3d translate - its superb!

I'm still trying to get a grasp for what this looks like in person. It just seems like it is one of those things that you just have to see as a video probably doesn't do it justice. Most videos are close-ups, I would love to see it from the players POV with slight "side to side" motion of the camera.

#1495 7 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

got the 3d translate - its superb!

its awesome got mine also. waiting for totan and tz to he made!!

#1496 7 years ago
Quoted from nickbuol:

I'm still trying to get a grasp for what this looks like in person. It just seems like it is one of those things that you just have to see as a video probably doesn't do it justice. Most videos are close-ups, I would love to see it from the players POV with slight "side to side" motion of the camera.

in person its worth every penny.

#1497 7 years ago

Where can you get a set of wire forms?

#1498 7 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Where can you get a set of wire forms?

Marco Specialties sometimes has the last wireform ramp, but I haven't seen the right one anywhere in a long time.

What is wrong with your current ones? If they are just ugly/nasty, they can be cleaned up and re-plated to look very nice...

#1499 7 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

The game should just have a call out for when "You didn't have the magic!"

Have you ever had Tales of the Arabian Nights fail to trap a ball in the shooting stars?

If I recall she says "A thousand pardons" or something like that. The game then proceeds to return the ball to you.

#1500 7 years ago

One other possible issue IDK. say you play two player, player one vanishes the ball then drains. player two doesn't vanish the ball, but hits multiball why does the vanished ball come into play on that turn.

I've played single player and it adds the vanished ball into multiball for 4 balls. I just assumed it was part of the game until player two was able to steal player ones vanished ball. the leaves player one to have to re-vanish the ball (pretty easily without having to hit the captive ball again). After the second player was able to use player ones vanished ball in multi-ball, it left me thinking there might be a glitch or something. Maybe it's not supposed to even happen at all for either player.

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