No idea. I just have a big Tupperware full of a mix of Cointaker and Comet stuff.

As of last week I have a Theatre of Magic. What a sweet playing game! Great flow! I just read through 12 pages of treads and there is a ton of great info and contributions. Thank you all.
I had to do a little cabinet work and still have to finish, but it looks and presents very nice. I ordered a new trunk and will decide which is the best way to line the inside to avoid cracking again. I also have this big question. The trap door works, but it never lines up when it closes. My guess which I have not verified is the linkage is sloppy. Any thoughts?
David
P.S. I am now an official member!

I have to decide which mods to do as time goes on.

Can anyone point me to some cool skirt cards?

Best thing I've done so far is upgrade the speakers. I went with an 8" woofer. Ground shakes.

http://www.dziedzic.us/wpc_speaker_replacement.html

Second best thing I've done is clean the junk from the trunk. It now spins without noise super fast.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/if-your-tom-trunk-is-acting-up-clean-the-gear-boxjunk-in-the-trunk

My next move is GI OCD.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gi-ocd-active-smoothing-for-gi-work-in-progress

For anyone looking for ramps, go to Larry at Starship Fantasy. I was ready to post a WTB on Pinside and a buddy said to check out SF. They had them in stock so I ordered them up easy peasy.

We just picked up a ToM from a friend that needs some love. Plan to do some reading in this thread.

Cheers,
Steve

Color DMD, Mirror Blades and LED's!

I was thinking about mirror blades... But honestly, I'm gravitating towards the red velvet blades.
I have the ColorDMD. Took me a couple weeks to get used to it but now I love it, can't go back.

This is may pinball machine tom....love this game....

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FYI, I just posted to this topic on the voice actors of ToM, finally revealed:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/voice-actors-for-tom-and-totan#post-2735538

I have loved the Theatre in both XB360 and virtua pin arenas, and have never had the opportunity to play one for real. I love it, and I would love to have one. I will, eventially- it is a goal to join this particular club!

Im having trouble making the back right ramp/wire form,
looks like the ball is coming off the rails at the entrance at the first bend and loosing all its steam?

This a common problem?
Flippers feel good.

Thanks

similar problem here, ball always makes the ramp but always comes to a near stop at the first bend.

The wire form only has 2 wires.
so the ball leaves the wireform and is rolling up beside a metal guide and one rail.
then it comes back onto the wireform and up to the crest of the hill and rolls back down

had a look at this.the metal wall guides the ball right into the end of the wireform.
i wedged out the metal with a piece of cardboard and it cured it.
have to come up with a long term solution

Can you post a photo of where the metal wall meets the wire rail? We can compare (mine is fine).

Haven't got a pic handy but heres an Artist's impression

TOM RAil.png

Left shows the problem,where the 2 rails become 4.
Middle shows the balls hitting the right rail because its being guided stright into it.
Right shows what needs to be done !

Havent figured out a good solution yet,just a wedge of the cabinet holding the rail out more

you can't flare the end of the wire out?

Good call,will look at it later.

I just went and looked at mine and it does flare ever so lightly,perhaps thats the trick.

Mine does now!
Thanks for the advice.
So obvious looking back!

Looking for a custom shooter rod. The tiger would be fine. Just interested to see what else is out there. Thank you

Is there a plastic above this that may be affecting the ball as it comes to the top of this Ramp?

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Honestly, I looked at this closely, and I don't think it's a plastics issue. Sounds like it was a rail alignment issue and it was now fixed!

Instructions? This looks like a great addition.

How do I adjust the angle of the trunk? When it's on the open side it's lined up pretty well, but when it rotates, it's off by a bit.

Guys any ideas why my spirit ring isn't working during a game?
Works in test mode and has been fine

Haven't got my TOM yet but check switches on ramp leading up to spirit ring.

Line up the trunk as perfect as you can moving it by hand (it will move, just not easily against the gears), and then loosen and realign the interruptor under the playfield, making sure that the notches for the optos are perfect. If that doesn't work, you might have to go deeper to make sure that the arm on the gearbox shaft is lined up where it should be.

Sometimes the trunk plastic is pretty warped too, so even if the mechanism is lined up well it can look off.

My cousin comes over last night. Never played TOM before and throws up a 3 billion game crushing my high score.

Im looking for a tiger saw mod. I would prefer to find one a little different than the one from pinball decals. I saw one from a while ago but can't get a hold of the guy.Maybe someone has one they would like to sell?

I am new to the whole "pinball scene". I recently picked up my own TOM and I already have my first "real problem". None of the solenoids on the J107-2 string are working at the moment. Any ideas are good ideas (unless it results in more disappointment). I have already tried checking all the connections.

I have an LED question here. I know that there are different companies selling different kits for TOM, but in the end they all seem to run about the same price, so that isn't the question. What I am wondering about is when I play pinball machines that have LED kits in them (like last week at 1-Up in Denver) when I look at the LEDs they look fine, but as I start playing and my eyes start moving to follow the ball, they seem to "flicker"...

Anyone know what that is all about? Will this be a problem for me with any kit that I get? I asked one vendor about their non-ghosting LEDs, and they lead me to believe that this is a different issue. I just don't want to drop $250-$300 on LEDs and have them flicker every time I want to play.

FYI that I've been a TOM owner since 1999, but haven't modded anything until recently. Years ago I bought the original manuals, extra trunk, full plastic set (plus the ones that were already broken). Then I did a DIY upgrade by adding an 8" powered woofer to the bottom of the cabinet. I just recently got some brass legs and protectors, I also am putting together my own trunk chain/lock kit (a lot cheaper using the same stuff that you pay $40 for online). I just ordered the super expensive saw and mirror kit (I remember when the saw kit was just $75). Next up is LEDs, then at some point I will look into getting the rails, lockdown, etc switched to "gold" and maybe a color DMD. I have a huge problem with my TOM though that I really should attend to at some point. It has been posted here and elsewhere in the past that the "A" in MAGIC popped up (prior to me buying it, so within the machine's first 4 years of its life) and the "A" is badly chipped away. The only solution I can think of would be to strip the whole playfield down and send it for repair/clearcoat, but DANG that will be expensive for an otherwise VERY clean playfield. Not to mention that the idea of tearing it down and not being able to put it back together for months seems daunting, even with photos, diagrams, videos, good labeling. But that is a different story, right now I want to get the LED thing figured out, so any help there would be great.

what about non ghosting roms?

I had a problem with the trap door shooting sdtm or very nearly sdtm every time.
Solved it by putting some industrial sticky backed velcro on the underside of the trap door.
this kicked it over to the right a bit making it less frustrating!

I think that ToM is already LED ready, that's what I've been told by hobbyroms.

Yeah, I did a bit more looking and it does not seem that I would need non-ghosting LEDs per a few other posts around here about WPC-95 games not needing them. I am just wondering 1) Why do they sell $20 "upgrades" at Cointaker for non-ghosting LEDs for TOM if it isn't an issue, and 2) how do I handle the "flicker" problem that I see when playing a lot of LED upgraded games?

NOTE: This is NOT the bulb itself flickering per se as I can stare right at a pinball with full LED upgrades (usually newer is what I've seen WPC-95 or newer) and the bulbs go through their "attract" modes and I see no flicker if my eyes are "stationary" and just staring. It is when there is fast movement of my eyes that I catch a flicker more out of my peripheral vision and I track a fast moving ball that is in play.

I am in Exton, PA for work today and tomorrow. Heading to Pinball Gallery in Malvern, PA to play a few rounds. I wonder if they have any LED upgraded ones where I could ask them about it too. Maybe it is just a "me" thing...

Do your self a favor and get Hergs GI OCD. You can then turn back on the fading feature and WOW what a light Show.
Magicchiz

Hey, quit trying to spend my money. LOL. That is a pretty cool set of products (LED ODC and GI OCD). Not sure what LEDs they are using with their Twilight Zone "Before" video, but yuck...

It is interesting though. I watched the before and after videos, and (as more evident from the Rolling Stones before/after), the original "before" didn't bother me, but when the "after" part of the video started, it was like my brain said "ahhhhh... Not so crazy any more." It was almost "soothing." I really like it but dang, another $300 for the pair. Eek.

So a quick update on my LED "flicker" situation. I went to the Pinball Gallery in Malvern, PA. Nice couple running the place and lots of pins to play. I didn't start with any LED converted or stock (newer Sterns), but when I got to the LED ones, I tried to really diagnose what I was seeing. I bought an $8 wrist band for as much as I could play in an hour, and I was the only one there until about the end of my hour, so if I lost a ball trying to figure this thing out, it wasn't a big deal since most of the games were on FreePlay (minus my $8 of course).

Anyway, I found it that it isn't the LEDs that flicker, but it is the BALL that has some goofy strobing effect. I mentioned it to the two owners and one just said "it takes a bit of getting used to" and the other (his wife) said "it is because the lights are a bit dim in here." I was hoping that she would turn up the lights in the room for me to see if that was the problem, but she didn't. I took out my cell phone and turned on the flashlight app and (again since the games were on freeplay) I held the phone in one hand, shining it towards the main part of the playfield above the flipper area, and played one handed to at least get the ball bouncing around. It was a LOT better. So I don't know why it bothers me and not other people, but I think that the solution is to not play in dimly lit rooms, and if need be, add some lower playfield GI like what Stern puts in a number of their games like the one I've attached to this post.

The owner also told me that he finds Coin Taker LEDs much too bright and likes buying from Comet and Flipper Fidelity better. He said that he buys in bulk now and they all look nearly identical, but he has better life out of the Comet and F.F. ones as too many from C.T. have failed prematurely (slow dimming death). I just don't think that Comet of Flipper Fidelity sell "kits" though. I would have to figure it all out and hope for the best. I do see that a lot of people here like PinballBulbs too. Their kit comes with some extra LED strips to light up some dark areas, but they don't include any backbox flashers (although I don't remember if TOM has flashers or not as I am not at home) and are more money that CoinTaker (even before the Pinside discount)... So many choices.

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First, let me assure you, you're not the only person who experiences this, as I do as well. The ambient room lighting can increase or decrease the severity of it, as can the nature and brightness of the LEDs you use. The reason the issue seems elusive is that it tends to be a problem coming from the outer edge of the retina of your eye, which picks up greater light sensitivity than looking directly at something. For a certain subset of people, this distinction is even greater.

This is a process similar to the DLP color wheel rainbow effect, which again, only effects a certain subset of people. To quote wikipedia on this one:

Brief visible separation of the colours can also be apparent when the viewer moves their eyes quickly across the projected image. Some people perceive these rainbow artifacts frequently, while others may never see them at all.

This effect is caused by the way the eye follows a moving object on the projection. When an object on the screen moves, the eye will follow the object with a constant motion, but the projector will display each alternating color of the frame at the same location, for the duration of the whole frame. So, while the eye is moving, it will see a frame of a specific color (red for example). Then, when the next color is displayed (green for example), although it gets displayed at the same location overlapping the previous color, the eye will have moved toward the object's next frame target. Thus, the eye will see that specific frame color slightly shifted. Then, the third color gets displayed (blue for example), and the eye will see that frame's color slightly shifted again. This effect is not perceived only for the moving object, but the whole picture.

So, bottom line, you're not alone. For what it's worth, what you're seeing is the LEDs flicker when your eye isn't directly looking at the LEDs. I had the same problem, and sorry about your pocketbook but my problem disappeared when I installed Herg's GI OCD.

I've used the CoinTaker LEDs without any issue. Sometimes I do have some problems getting the wire contacts on the CoinTaker LEDs to match with the bulb sockets, but some minor adjustments with a fingernail solves the problem. I use their Supers for just about everything, though frosted or retros for the GI strings on the playfield so it doesn't look like clown vomit. Note that I do not use the LED OCD, and I haven't had flickering problems since.

-Jay

Yup. I see DLP color wheels and thus never used a DLP projector in my home theater and I always suspected it was the eye's ability to see light better in the peripheral vision vs. better color straight ahead.

So one question about the Herg's GI OCD vs LCD OCD, I would have thought that you would need both in order to provide the desired result. You are saying that I would *just* need the GI one? That is unexpected (but helpful $$$ wise).

I wonder if C.T. can swap out the GI lights for frosted or retros within their kit? I will have to ask them.

Yes, that's been my experience. I think it may be that the lights are flashing in a manner that makes it hard to see. It might also have something to do with the dimming effects that the ToM machine uses mostly on the GI (vs. just flashing on the rest). The GI OCD allows the dimming effects to work properly. I've found when a machine tries to dim a light with an LED on it I get increased flicker, at least to my eye.

Hmm, good question. Since there is no real way to know what the original design intent is (that I've been able to find, let me know if you or anyone has figured that out), I would recommend doing the entire kit and then replacing elements piece by piece as you see fit. I've found that some of the GI's look pretty good with 44 or 555 Frosted, some look good with a bright exposed color, though certain lights that are meant to look like edison-style light bulbs you can replace with retros (for me, the only retro I use is right beneath the spirit ring).

Here is an example, note the two white frosted on the left side of the photo and the two purple 4LED style (these were in the machine when I bought it):

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Here is the retro bulb under the Spirit Ring:

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I hope that's helpful.

-Jay

So I installed the (expensive) tiger saw and marquee kit tonight. Everything works, but then I looks for kicks and see that I am running the 1.2 game ROM. I know that there are some bug fixes going to v 1.3x of the ROM and they can be found online for something like $13 shipped. Of course, then there is the 1.4h ROM. It needs the U22 security chip for $45 shipped, plus whatever it costs for a 1.4h chip (I can't seem to find any place to buy one).

I understand that the saw will spin at more times with the 1.4h ROM, but is it really worth the expense (even if I could find a 1.4h chip) over the 1.3x ROM? I mean, dang, this was a $300 shipped kit, and I am working on a $300 LED kit, I am just not sure that it is worth it...

Thoughts from the ToM owners here with the spinning saw?

I wouldn't change it just for the saw. There are no other changes in the ROM except support for prototype ToMs (Saw, Magic Post), and the introduction of a potential multiball crash.

Personally, I love the saw effect, I'd just call this a "nice to have" vs. a critical update.

I think that I will grab the 1.3x ROM though. Just so that it is a bit more current for bug fixes. Heck, just today I experienced the "game is over, but the sligshots are still active" bug.

Millz made the mistake of volunteering to help me clean-up a friends ToM about six weeks ago. We've been working on the game once or twice a week for the past six weeks. Game is finally back together and getting dialed in. Only a few things left to do on the punch list. Figure I would share some of the things we have done to the game. If you read this Millz, THANK YOU. You have been doing an incredible job on this game and I cannot thank you enough for the patience you have shown in walking me through the steps it has taken to make this game as beautiful as it is.

TRUNK DYNAMAT:
Someone mentioned lining the inside of the trunk with Dynamat as a way to beef up the durability. Decided to try this today with a new trunk and it worked slick. Here are some pics of the way I pieced it inside. As to durability, we will see. I think it will be the most durable solution possible. If you do some research on making buildings bomb proof, you will find that spraying concrete block with Rhinolining is one of the best methods to make a building safe from a bomb near the exterior. Dynamat is similar in that it is flexible, heavy and will stay soft. It will flow into every odd ripple and bend yu will find inside the trunk.

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LEDS - GI:
We used Cointaker Frosted for the GI and most of the inserts. Their frosted bulbs use 2-led 2835, making them very bright. With frosted lens, they disperse very well. Currently, I believe CT's frosted 2-LED and Comets Twin 2835 frosted are the best LED's you can buy. Ok, let's move on to our choices for colors. D&G Amusement has a beautiful ToM on location in Minneapolis. The color choices John made on his game are beautiful so we simply copied what he did with a few changes. In general, we went with purple on the front half of the GI and Warm White on the back half. The white bunny in the slings looks a little strange in purple so we changed the led, just below the bunny to Warm White. The other sling led is still purple. In the back half, we changed the orange drop lane plastics to orange. everything else is Warm White, including the led's on the back wall of the playfield. John did two more things that looks fantastic. 1) He added a purple LED strip in the apron. 2) He added three spots to the playfield. We did both and love the results. John used purple led's in his spots. We went with warm white. This brings out the yellow and flesh tones in the center of the playfield. I'll take more pics when the game is complete. For now I only have one. I will provide more detail on the led's used in the inserts soon. Down to each color used and style of the bulb. John used a lot of flex bulbs in his game. He did this because many of the insert sockets in ToM are mounted on their side. We decided to use frosted 2-led and they work very well. Since the flex bulbs do not have a frosted lens, they will produce hot spots in the inserts. The frosted bulbs do a better job dispersing the light out over the surface of the insert.

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TIGER SAW MOD:
My friend had purchased the saw mod from PinballPro so we went and installed it. Anyone looking to do this mod should just follow the two guides already out there on doing it yourself. One of them is a post here on Pinside. That post references a detailed guide that someone else did a while back and sold as a mod. They left the instructions on the mod up on their site which is sweet for us ToM fanatics. So others are aware, and I didn't know this even after reading up on everything I could; the saw mod works with v1.3 or 1.4H. We had 1.3 on our game and reading all the instructions I could find anywhere, it was not clear if the mod would run on v1.3. It does. The kit, while expensive does include a new mirror with a string of lights that are interactive with the game. A nice feature, all be it this kit is very expensive.

More info and detail when we finish up the game.

This concerns me:

IMG_7958.jpg

I've seen some back and forth around whether or not the post next to the trunk belongs there. Am I hearing right that it should be removed? Note the playfield issues around the trunk and that post. Any suggestions on how to restore? I've been looking for a complete playfield restoration outfit but haven't had much luck so far here in Northern California.

Remove it

Agreed, remove it. Mine was sheared off at some point a LONG time ago and I never fixed it. Sure, the ball sometimes goes and gets stuck between the right post and the trunk, but it is rare, and when the machine does a "ball search" it knocks it loose without any damage to anything. I've seen people put a piece of sticky foam tape on the ramp back there to make it so that the ball can't get stuck there to begin with. I just haven't done that yet.

As for playfield restore, there are people that will fix such things, but plan on $1000 minimum (should touch up the whole playfield and clearcoat it) and you have to provide them with a completely stripped, top and bottom, playfield. Then be able to reassemble it 3 months later when it comes back and then you just hope that your notes, photos, videos, and memory are good enough to do it.