(Topic ID: 253285)

The verdict is in...Wonka is a wonder, and K***** is a wonker...


By Shastings

61 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 112 posts
  • 57 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 45 days ago by pinlawyer
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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“The verdict is in...Wonka is a wonder, and K***** is a wonker...”

  • K***** is right, Wonka is a fail (but not as much as Star Wars) 92 votes
    49%
  • K***** is so wrong, Wonka is great 95 votes
    51%

(187 votes)

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There are 112 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
-25
#1 61 days ago

It shouldn’t bug me, but it does.
I shouldn’t listen, but I do.
First it was the greatest machine ever built.
Then it was a dud. Order cancelled.
These are the facts, and what he says has the weight of less than an atom of Mike TV (after he got shrunk).
The theme is well integrated. It includes most of the key scenes and many of the great quotes. Do we really want a linear game, working our way along the timeline of the film? No! That would suck! Stack shit! 3 different mode ‘types’ on the Factory Tour. Great design choice, bravo!
Do we want to see the movie again on the screen? And endlessly hear the same speech? No! That’s what a DVD is for. We are playing pinball and watching the silver ball. A glimpse of some golden eggs and the inventing room is all we need. And there’s so much stuff that can interrupt a mode given the stackability of this game it just would not make sense to have so much dialogue during the mode. Think about it before you pass judgement!
But if we do want info on the screen, we can trap up and it’s all there. Granted, a casual location player would have no idea how to decipher it all. But for the home player with time to digest stuff, it’s all there, brilliantly laid out.
Back to the game...
Stack stuff with Gobstopper! Stack stuff with Kid!
Get Wonkavator multiball along the way!
Get Slugworth multiball.
Get Wonkatania and freak out (and probably lose your ball from freaking out).
Get Oompa Loompa Odyssey with its groovy music. Who said the sound sucked?
Get Wonka’s Office - suck on that Johnny Mnemonic Powerdown, I’m better!
Can’t be egged playing a long game? Go for scrumdiddlyumptious on the ramps. I’ve only got to scrumd.
Go for mystery awards and see how far you get.
Focus only on Gobstoppers and get all 5 with a bit of focus.
So many ways to play.
We complain about games been shipped without code. This is 99% done. Whatever comes later will be polish.
K***** says 100% of balls exiting from the pops go SDTM. Bad design choice Pat Lawlor. You know nothing! I’m the expert!
Stick to facile marketing campaigns, leave the masters to design pinball machines. One guy on pinside with a poorly set up machine complains and it’s 100% a problem. Bullcrap!

The only thing that really bugs me about this game is the ‘H’ in Chocolate, the way they’ve simplified it and lost the ball shape. That really sucks. Actually even though the game is a masterpiece, I don’t think I can play it due to that H.

Konichi wa!

#2 61 days ago

Right on brother,well said!

17
#3 61 days ago

Great, more fuel for another 1/2 hour of ranting from that guy.

#5 61 days ago

Kaneda talks a lot about pinball but that doesn’t mean he knows anything.
Its kinda like most threads on Pinside. A very few contain useful information. The rest... not so much.

10
#6 61 days ago

Yet you all still tune in.

15
#7 61 days ago

I bought Wonka and like the game, but I agree with much of what Kaneda says. This game could have been a home run, but ended up being just a good game. Drains from the pop bumpers happen a lot.......too much, thank god for the ball save. The voice actor sucks. Movie assets were poorly used. Code structure is poor. With all of that I give the game a solid B+. Oh, and I didn’t even mention the fact my playfield is chipping and where is the Candy Man song!! If you hate Kaneda you are probably the type of person that focuses on only one side of the coin........A coin has two!

19
#8 61 days ago

I say play what you like. Who cares what he thinks?

#9 61 days ago

Looks like Kaneda claims another victim. It blows my mind how certain people can get so tied up in knots over another person thoughts and opinions....like he's the oracle of pinball or something.

A message to whoever is holding that gun to OP's head forcing him to listen - please stop and allow this man to go about his life in peace.

#10 61 days ago
Quoted from wontwa:

Great, more fuel for another 1/2 hour of ranting from that guy.

Just posted a 36 minute pod. You are closest without going over!

#11 61 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Just posted a 36 minute pod. You are closest without going over!

Listening now...

#12 61 days ago

Why does one persons opinion upset you so much? Have you never changed your mind about something? You love the game. That’s great! Have fun and stop caring about all the noise.

#13 61 days ago

There's a Willy Wonka game?

#14 61 days ago

For me, it's not so much what he says but how he sounds when he says it that i find annoying, so I had to stop listening

#15 61 days ago
Quoted from phantasmo:

....so I had to stop listening

Bravo! Now why can't everyone just do that instead of posting their grievances with Kaneda's podcast all the time?

#16 61 days ago

I got to admit I listen occasionally,even tho he’s an Ahole
Do your think there’s any truth to the Turtles rumour he’s spewing?

#17 61 days ago

I think the theme is very poorly integrated on this machine. So poorly, that it kept me from buying this game.

And it's not about having more movie clips or call outs. It's about using the assets in a way that relates to the movie.

I don't listen to K, so I have no opinion on that portion of the topic.

#18 61 days ago
Quoted from alex_m:

Why does one persons opinion upset you so much? Have you never changed your mind about something? You love the game. That’s great! Have fun and stop caring about all the noise.

Exactly!! If you love Wonka, why do you care what anyone else thinks? Enjoy the things that make you happy and don’t worry about anybody’s opinions.

-If you hate Kaneda, don’t listen and enjoy something else.
-If you love Kaneda, listen and enjoy

#19 61 days ago

Wonka is all on perspective

Owners: Wonka is amazing

non-owners: Wonka sucks

Opinions vary if you dropped 9k on this dud or not.

I talk to a lot of pinheads and it's the first game since wrestlemania where i haven't heard a single positive review.

#20 61 days ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Wonka is all on perspective
Owners: Wonka is amazing
non-owners: Wonka sucks
Opinions vary if you dropped 9k on this dud or not.
I talk to a lot of pinheads and it's the first game since wrestlemania where i haven't heard a single positive review.

Well, I left a positive review on Pinside for it. And it's not an issue of justifying the purchase or not having enough pins to play. I've got arguably the hottest games in pinball right now: JJPOTC, Wonka, and Jurassic Park.

Wonka is by far the one that has us deeply hooked right now. And that's not a slight on the other two because everyone knows POTC and JP are also amazing!
There is something about the game that has a seriously addictive quality.

Maybe it's the difficulty? It beats you up a while, then you have that one amazing game and it gets you riled up again.

I have an SE with now over 4000 plays and I am eagerly ready to upgrade to CE.

#21 61 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Well, I left a positive review on Pinside for it.

I mean from players off the street in conversation - not pinsiders or owners of the machine.

#22 61 days ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

I mean from players off the street in conversation - not pinsiders or owners of the machine.

Admittedly the game makes a tough first impression. It takes a while to learn to fight back and make progress and that's when the hooks are dug in.

The first night with the machine I was pretty unhappy. Now we can't stay off of it.

Perhaps the new "coin op" settings that make the game easier will help with that.

#23 61 days ago

kaneda ? Never heard of it. Is that a soft drink?

11
#24 61 days ago
Quoted from branlon8:

kaneda ? Never heard of it. Is that a soft drink?

I think it’s that country to the north of the United States

#25 61 days ago
Quoted from cjchand:

I think it’s that country to the north of the United States

this comment just literally had me spit take my coffee...

#26 61 days ago

There's more to the story. Is suspect he felt like he had to buy it after being invited to the factory and had to come up with some excuse when he realized he couldn't flip it for a profit

#27 61 days ago
Quoted from PinballTilt:

There's more to the story. Is suspect he felt like he had to buy it after being invited to the factory and had to come up with some excuse when he realized he couldn't flip it for a profit

I don't think so. He clearly stated it was the code and lack of more assets. I totally understand what he's saying. The game is beautiful, it's got a cool playfield, it's a great theme, but the code is a miss with not using the movie correctly. It should follow the movie progress, and it just doesn't. Now does that mean it's still not fun or great? No. The game is fun, and I would love to own one, but just like potc, I wanted more assets like woz and Hobbit had. Same exact deal with Jurassic Park. Everyone has a different taste, and it's all good. I like assets at this price. He clearly states several times that some people will enjoy Wonka, and still says the game is fun. It just doesn't fully deliver the theme like he expected.

#28 61 days ago

I don't think theme integration necessarily requires the pinball machine to re create the movie, or follow the movie progress. But, the pinball machine should at least integrate the movie assets in a way that makes sense.

For example, Wonkavision. It's definitely an iconic thing from the movie, so I'm glad it's represented in the game. But, in the game, Wonkavision is a screen. And, it's used as a screen, presenting the player with info, images etc.

In the movie, the whole point of Wonkavision is that it's NOT a screen. It transmits physical objects through the air and they get smaller. Then you can reach in and grab them. At first, everyone thinks it's a screen, but there's NO screen.

I think the pinball machine blew it by making this into a screen, and actually USING it as a screen in the game. Personally I would have represented Wonkavision in the game using a physical trick to make the ball smaller, using a mini ball in some fashion. But even if you're going to use a screen to show things getting smaller via Wonkavision, that's fine, but DON'T use it as a normal screen too.

Also, the Gobstopper. Another icon which definitely needs to be in the game. So, it's in there. But how is it used? I mean, why am I shooting it 3 times and what does it represent? They should have integrated this better with the actual movie.

13
#29 61 days ago

Pinball is very subjective. K's podcast is just his personal opinions/rants on pinball, if you don't agree with his pinball world view you're probably going to be irritated by listening to it so maybe don't?

For what it's worth I sort of agree with him on Wonka. I was ready to buy it, but the theme integration just didn't work for me. I'm happy lots of people enjoy it though and am always willing to change my mind.

I do think grown adults should be able to have huge disagreements on pinball and realize that it means next to nothing in the scheme of things. Not sure why it ever has to get personal. (I've failed to live up to this standard many times for some reason).

#30 61 days ago

I find it hilarious that K-man continues to live rent-free in so many people’s heads, and must say it’s actually somewhat impressive that even 3+ years after being kicked off Pinside he STILL retains the power to so effectively troll this place (without a single keystroke, no less)!

Break the cycle, stop feeding the troll!

#31 61 days ago

I'm still personally not a fan of the game it's a dream theme but I find the game to be very long playing and easy of you do the boring strategy. Also the lack of assets I would like to see is a killer for me.

#32 61 days ago
Quoted from Shastings:

I shouldn’t listen, but I do.

This is as far as I read, but you're right, you shouldn't listen. Life is too short.

#33 61 days ago

I can’t decide if the game is good or not, or if I like it yet. But I finally got in a few games on an LE, and....Kaneda’s 100% right on no audio attached to video. It’s unfathomably lame and an utter fail. Same with the chocolate factory “animation” that sits on the LCD most of the time. Looks like a kid drew it. It’s uninspired. You have the movie to work with and use that?!?

Game is gorgeous and shoots like butter. Feels well made. JJP games do feel like B/W games, and that’s the bar right there.

But I don’t really enjoy the layout, so I’m not sure how I’m going to feel about this one. So far it’s just meh for me.

Oh, and not one ball went SDTM out of the pops.

11
#34 61 days ago

"Game is gorgeous and shoots like butter. Feels well made. JJP games do feel like B/W games, and that’s the bar right there."

Well said here. I agree 100%. Unfortunately, the game is an absolute failure for me though b/c of all the things mentioned in here already (sound, horrible theme integration, cheap drains, etc) - it just isn't fun. Period.

Has nothing to do with being hard either - I've actually progressed pretty well in it but it's just not fun. Let down of 2019 for me no question so I'm not sure if the OP means the verdict he gave himself but the verdict for me (and many other people I talk to that aren't owners trying to defend their purchase) - this game is a wonker.

LEs sitting around and a CE that is MIA is never a good thing. Bring on GnR.

#35 60 days ago

Jersey Jack has again taken pinball to a new level. Take alone the Kid multiball route - combines cool features of both MB and MM - you‘re qualifying kids (like monsters) then you play a mode to collect them - I don‘t think something is unlocked for collecting all the kids, though, it might be a cool feature. Once you‘ve qualified some kids and hit the far left lane then the MM part starts up - if you complete this then another mode starts (with golden ticket). Then there‘s all the other rule sections - factory tour, different bonuses, multipliers and side modes - everything potentially at the same time. Was there ever such a nonlinear game? You even get to collect things - Wonka bars.

JJP uses the screen like an animated backbox. Your status is shown on various locations in a playful way within a cohesive whole. There are film clips to break things up, but they‘re not too distracting. If I want to see film clips I pull out the blu-ray. It‘s much less expensive than a pin.

With amazing light shows, sappy music fitting to the film, innovative layout and it‘s all driven by a standard pc running on linux. What‘s not to like, except maybe the price ? - Euro 8600.

#36 60 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

"Game is gorgeous and shoots like butter. Feels well made. JJP games do feel like B/W games, and that’s the bar right there."
Well said here. I agree 100%. Unfortunately, the game is an absolute failure for me though b/c of all the things mentioned in here already (sound, horrible theme integration, cheap drains, etc) - it just isn't fun. Period.
Has nothing to do with being hard either - I've actually progressed pretty well in it but it's just not fun. Let down of 2019 for me no question so I'm not sure if the OP means the verdict he gave himself but the verdict for me (and many other people I talk to that aren't owners trying to defend their purchase) - this game is a wonker.
LEs sitting around and a CE that is MIA is never a good thing. Bring on GnR.

The CE is likely MIA because of playfield issues, I’m guessing they don’t want it going out unless they know it’s perfect. Can’t believe people are hitting them on this. If they get it out and it has issues, people will be pissed, they can’t win. Yeah, it’s a long time to wait, but I’d rather wait then get a bad game. It’s unfortunate, but if that’s the reason for the delay, good for them. Stern just keeps sending bad stuff out the door.

There is only one cheap drain, not drains, and it’s the pops and while it’s frustrating, it really only happens maybe 1 out of 10 times, just need to be ready to nudge the game. Maybe future code could pulse the magnets above the flippers after the pops are hit to divert it. If you think the outlanes are cheap drains, you can close them up easily. I installed the extra post on the left side and it makes a big difference.

I have my game hooked up to an external sub and it sounds great. The video assets dont bother me as much as some others seem to be bothered by it. The new code update has some improvements.

Overall, it’s one of my favorite games. I like it better than JP, so much more going on and a world above in terms of quality, depth and light show.

To each his own.

-2
#37 60 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Overall, it’s one of my favorite games. I like it better than JP, so much more going on and a world above in terms of quality, depth and light show.

Sorry but that statement = Garbage. R U kidding, have u played JP?

#38 60 days ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Sorry but that statement = Garbage. R U kidding, have u played JP?

Of course, I owned it several weeks. It’s a great game, but I prefer wonka. If people hit wonka for theme integration, I don’t know how you cannot hit JP for it. It has nothing to do with the movie(s). That doesn’t make it a bad game, I just feel wonka pulls me into the game more than jp.

A premium/Le jp does not compare to a standard/le wonka for the same price. There is so much more to wonka.

#39 60 days ago

I wish the polls would show you who voted which way! Love to see who voted “Wonka failed”.

#40 60 days ago

The fact that one of the best themes is 50/50 fail vs success per the vote is crystal clear on why this game is a disappointment. It should have been a clear winner.

They had to try to make this one not succeed.

And the pf issues have nothing to do with at least showing what the CE looks like.

#41 60 days ago

So for the people who are out solely due to the asset use...honest question from me, why?

Star Wars had clips with sound and they get SO repetitive after hundreds of games. I insta-skip them every single time.
As for “telling the story” - also puzzling to me, do you want every game to start with the same mode? To tell a story that’s what you’d have to do, unless I am missing something.

#42 60 days ago

Wonka gets played more than JJPoTC but less than JPLE in my collection. JPLE is my current go-to. But Wonka is beautiful, has butter-like gameplay (think of a HEP B/W) and deep rules. The only "failure" about it was my losing the ball out the left side, until I stuck in the post. Yeah, the narrator stinks, but he's still corny AF, just like the movie. JJP likes that kid-friendly old timey crap tho. The theme would have resonated with me more with the new WW movie. Boingo music, Deep Roy playing all the Oompa Loompas--use THOSE assets with Wilder's face and I'd have loved it. I LOVE edgy stuff.

That said, I do love me some Wonka pinball.

As for JPLE, I dig what's linear about it, the flow, etc. I keep going back to it.

#43 60 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

unless I am missing something.

Ur missing something alright. Its StarWars. R U putting SW's in the same theme category with Wonka?

Quoted from zaphX:

Star Wars had clips with sound and they get SO repetitive after hundreds of games.

U would need to give an example of a pinball machine where the clips and sound doesn't get repetitive after hundreds of games. U won't be able to because it doesn't exist. I think most people can handle SW's a lot longer than some other themes out there. At least I could. Some pins, TWD, MET, BK3 I had to attenuate the call outs to the point that they are inaudible.

#44 60 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

And the pf issues have nothing to do with at least showing what the CE looks like.

Is it supposed to be different than what's on their site?

Screenshot_20191012-105551 (resized).png
#45 60 days ago
Quoted from cjchand:

I think it’s that country to the north of the United States

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!! (We want nothing to do with him either, though I suppose it's a fair comment since you guys are stuck with Beiber.)

-3
#46 60 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:A premium/Le jp does not compare to a standard/le wonka for the same price. There is so much more to wonka.

Well now u went from garbage to high grade commercial toxic waste.

#47 60 days ago

OP sounds way too invested in the opinions of others for their own happiness. And why listen if it upsets you so much?

Wonka is amazing. I also enjoy Kaneda's podcast. I'll even go further: I bet there is a high probability that he still buys that CE when its released. Wait and see. He clearly cares about the future of the game or he wouldn't keep bitching about it. The bottom line is that it shoots better and has more to offer than any other pin out there right now.

#48 60 days ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

U would need to give an example of a pinball machine where the clips and sound doesn't get repetitive after hundreds of games. U won't be able to because it doesn't exist.

Exactly my point. They get annoying and repetitive so how can the lack of them be a deal-breaker on a pin?

Does anyone with a JJPOTC complain about the assets? Nope.

#49 60 days ago

Haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love!

So much time, so little to do...

#50 60 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Is it supposed to be different than what's on their site?[quoted image]

Per jjp themselves, yes or it might be different.

They said that is subject to change and haven't said anything since.

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