(Topic ID: 291537)
Paradise, NV
What a clusterF___. What are the options here?
To me, best case, would be to negotiate buying the affected land, but how much would that cost?
Are there any other outcomes where the building doesn't get torn down?
Quoted from frolic:To me, best case, would be to negotiate buying the affected land, but how much would that cost?
That’s an option…assuming city or county would allow it. I don’t think it would be impacted at the state level. Since things vary so much I don’t even want to start guessing. Things are so drastically different in my neighborhood. Hopefully one of the locals knows more about this.
If they can’t buy they might have to become tenants or something.
Wow, just read about the surveyor error. Will be interesting to see how this turn out.
Hoping for the best...
Quoted from cosmokramer:Theres a ton of great priced food just a few minutes off the strip. We got a great sushi lunch for two today for $38 and a nice italian dinner for $50 including tip
that was our problem. we stayed on the strip. they get you on that. it was a fun trip though
Survey companies carry insurance for exactly this. If a new survey was completed recent to, or at the time of, the land purchase and the building is within the boundaries, then the survey company will be on the hook. If it is an old survey, (not sure how old, depends on the state) then this will be a mess.
expect a new gofundme ... to cover legal expenses.
expect a new gofundme ... to purchase the addtl land.
on top of the two years of future operating profits necessary to pay back tims $1.7M loans, this could mean even more years of operating profits to generate the monies to pay for the addtl land and cover legal fees - even more time before charitable partners begin to see their money.
this would keep all time donations made by LVPCC over an 18 year span at around 1M while the other 12M of profit went toward paying for and resolving the new facitily.
Quoted from Mikespinball:Just finishing up our trip in Vegas. Went on a helicopter ride and caught this on the incoming flight. Looks cool from the air.
Also came later and played some pinball with my daughter. Had a great time!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I didn’t realize it, but Tim succeeded in designing the building to look like a pinball machine. Didn’t realize it was built on an angle, but the roof is flat to give it an illusion there is an incline of the roof similar to an actual playfield. Very cool. Thanks for sharing that awesome pic.
Quoted from gamera9:I would think the city would offer to step.up and help.
they didnt step up when tim needed a 200K loan. still, the county did give him a piece of paper he can hang on the wall.
Pics from our grand opening event last night. All machines were all set on free and there were tacos and pizza for all. Forwarding the motion that this should become an annual event for members. It was even official "Pinball Hall of Fame Day" in Vegas!
image (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpegQuoted from Bandit78:Survey companies carry insurance for exactly this.
If the survey company is sizable, and carries $5 million insurance, problem not solved, but at least funded. If survey company is small, and carries $1 million errors and omissions insurance, then there might be trouble in fully funding the solution to the problem. If the PHoF hired a general contractor to run the build, and the surveyor was a sub to the GC, that would be even better. Then both company's insurance would be in play.
Quoted from flynnibus:uh oh... don't need this kind of extra drama!
https://twitter.com/VitalVegas/status/1410809969361002501
[quoted image]
I call BS on VitalVegas...tweet what you want but is it April 1st?
with GPS and other modern survey equipment how can it be 8 feet off? The marker on my property from different companies at different times were about 1-2" off.
This doesn't pass the sniff test. The actual building likely isn't sitting directly on what they thought was the property line, it must be it's sitting on a right of way or a buffer a little too close to the property line.
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:This doesn't pass the sniff test. The actual building likely isn't sitting directly on what they thought was the property line, it must be it's sitting on a right of way or a buffer a little too close to the property line.
Errors in building ‘off property’ are extremely rare. I’ll believe the story when it comes from Tim.
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:This doesn't pass the sniff test. The actual building likely isn't sitting directly on what they thought was the property line, it must be it's sitting on a right of way or a buffer a little too close to the property line.
That the first thing I thought. It would seem strange to put the building right on the property line. However, maybe the survey mistake was something like 50 feet off? Or maybe the whole thing is fake news. Or something. Who knows. Tim Arnold does post here once in a while, maybe he’ll give an update.
Quoted from Steve_in_Escalon:Errors in building ‘off property’ are extremely rare. I’ll believe the story when it comes from Tim.
Someone who videoed Tim's talk last night should post it (maybe on youtube?). Tim eluded to a "problem with the new building" but said "we won't talk about it right now".
Visited the new location.
Building is fantastic location is great and it sure is cool to see a pinball sign that large! Lots of parking. Easy walk from a few of the casinos on the strip.
If you have played at their old location game condition and playability have not changed. Leaving something to be desired…
Wishing them great success in the future. I believe investing in a few great full time technicians will yield them great returns moving forward.
Quoted from greenhornet:expect a new gofundme ... to cover legal expenses.
expect a new gofundme ... to purchase the addtl land.
on top of the two years of operating profits necessary to pay back tims $1.7M loans, this could mean even more years of operating profits to generate the monies to pay for the addtl land and cover legal fees - even more years before charitable partners begin to see their money.
this would keep all time donations made by LVPCC over an 18 year span at around 1M while the other 12M of profit went toward paying for and resolving the new facitily.
Give it a rest. We know you don't like PHOF for some reason and that is fine but this isn't really Tim's problem.
He paid professionals to do their job and someone screwed up. Heads will roll and lots of money will be spent but in the end that money will come from the insurance companies of the companies that screwed up.
I highly doubt this is going to be any real issue for Tim or PHOF. But someone has a real problem if they screwed up and the survey or property lines are wrong. More shit Tim needs to worry about for sure but I highly doubt it will be anything that cost him any cash in the end. Even any legal fees should be survey companies problem. It might even become a planning commission issue since they approved everything.
What I find hard to believe is the run of "bad luck" Tim has had getting this done. First Covid and all the issues that came with that and now this!
In the end I am sure it will get resolved but what a mess for PHOF short term. Haven't they already had enough issues in the past 18 months!
Quoted from bob_e:I call BS on VitalVegas...tweet what you want but is it April 1st?
with GPS and other modern survey equipment how can it be 8 feet off? The marker on my property from different companies at different times were about 1-2" off.
I’ve worked in civil engineering and land surveying for years. Monuments take priority over measurements in just about every state. A good surveyor lays out property lines based on the monuments found in the field. It’s virtually impossible to exactly duplicate the measurements of past surveys and the maps based on them. These kind of errors are pretty rare, but when they happen, it usually end up in court.
This happened on the Jetsons..episode 22 "private Property"
When Cogswell opens a new office next door to spy on Spacely Sprockets, George is charged with finding a way to get rid of Cogswell.
surveyors print shows one of the two buildings is over the property line.
If there really is axproblem with the building location, another possibility is that the property survey and site plan are correct, and the building was mistakenly laid out in the wrong spot for construction.
The construction staking may have been done by a surveyor, the contractor, or a sub-contractor-either an engineering or suveying firm.
No one outside really seems to have enough information to have an informed opinion as to what might be going on.
Hope it gets straightened out amicably.
Quoted from bob_e:This happened on the Jetsons..episode 22 "private Property"
When Cogswell opens a new office next door to spy on Spacely Sprockets, George is charged with finding a way to get rid of Cogswell.
surveyors print shows one of the two buildings is over the property line.
In that episode, the surveyor or building inspector said the building must come down.
Quoted from MrBally:In that episode, the surveyor or building inspector said the building must come down.
there was a question on whos building was over the property line,
then Mr. Spacely bought the Cogswell's building and property.
then the building inspector said the new building was too tall and had to be torn down, would not let them take 6" off the top.
Quoted from RCA1:If there really is axproblem with the building location, another possibility is that the property survey and site plan are correct, and the building was mistakenly laid out in the wrong spot for construction.
The construction staking may have been done by a surveyor, the contractor, or a sub-contractor-either an engineering or suveying firm.
No one outside really seems to have enough information to have an informed opinion as to what might be going on.
Hope it gets straightened out amicably.
Without any supporting facts, I’m leaning towards the contractor misinterpreting the off-sets on the batter boards.
When building schools, I would have the surveyor verify footings/forms prior to pour. If you have to move something, better before concrete has been placed.
What bothers me the most is it doesn’t appear possible to move the building 8 feet to the north without encroaching into the adjacent service road (& easement). Did they make the building too big? Not likely…
Will be interesting to hear the full story when all is said and done.
Have there always been parking spaces open at the new location?
Seems like all the pics so far have shown it pretty full.
Quoted from miracleman:Have there always been parking spaces open at the new location?
Seems like all the pics so far have shown it pretty full.
Depends on the day and time. Over the past two months it has ranged from 20% to darn near 100% of occupied spaces.
For the gala this past Thursday, the lot was 80% filled at 3 pm as the building was open to the public until the before everyone was escorted out. Then the lot emptied with the exception of workers and tailgaters. During the event, the lot was maybe 60% occupied. Many guests came via Rideshare/cabs as the Amusement Expo also took place during the week. It seemed that there were about 125 guests for the Grand Opening event at its peak.
Box check on batter boards is a staple of any construction, residential or commercial, so this is a bit of a head scratcher. Typically the same surveyor who staked the property lines and offsets, does the box check. If the general contractor tried to stake himself(property lines or offsets) than that could be a problem.
1 week later
But I can see why. Since day 1, that machine has appeared to be a PITA.
I made it by for a visit last week. Sadly, I got there just before 9:00. New hours are 11-9.
I did get a quick look around and got my son a t-shirt. It’s a nice new location.
I was informed that due to Clark County’s new regulations (pertaining to the most recent influx of new Covid cases), masks are once again required to be worn by all entering the PHoF, regardless of vaccination proof.
I strongly enjoyed being mask free for the past couple of weeks at the PHoF. Oh well.
Quoted from GravitaR:Hope to revisit the PHOF in 2022 as I haven't been there since 2019.
Quite a bit different now. Well, bigger, for sure. I’d like to think the staff is a bit more cordial, but that’s up for interpretation. My daughter is a tech there, and she definitely isn’t Mr. Rogers when it comes to friendliness, but she can fix a game like a ninja. 
Quoted from prl867:Quite a bit different now. Well, bigger, for sure. I’d like to think the staff is a bit more cordial, but that’s up for interpretation. My daughter is a tech there, and she definitely isn’t Mr. Rogers when it comes to friendliness, but she can fix a game like a ninja.
I was there and had a great time way back then. The whole staff was very pleasant. Look toward the revisit and seeing the new place.
Quoted from MrBally:I wonder what the five recently deleted posts were aboot?
Masks
Quoted from prl867:Quite a bit different now. Well, bigger, for sure. I’d like to think the staff is a bit more cordial, but that’s up for interpretation. My daughter is a tech there, and she definitely isn’t Mr. Rogers when it comes to friendliness, but she can fix a game like a ninja.
Well she will be very busy
1 week later
In the interest of full disclosure, I am now a part time volunteer at the PHoF, mainly running the front desk. As I had previously mentioned that my only direct connection was via my daughter being a tech, I wanted to mention this for honesty purposes.
Having said that, none of my comments or opinions are to be construed or taken as representative of the PHoF views, whether that be in an official or unofficial capacity.
I do not represent the PHoF in any way on this forum, but I’m happy to answer any questions that anyone may have. Thank you!
I don’t have any questions but thanks for the introduction. I bet someone else has good questions.
Again, welcome!
Quoted from prl867:In the interest of full disclosure, I am now a part time volunteer at the PHoF, mainly running the front desk. As I had previously mentioned that my only direct connection was via my daughter being a tech, I wanted to mention this for honesty purposes.
Having said that, none of my comments or opinions are to be construed or taken as representative of the PHoF views, whether that be in an official or unofficial capacity.
I do not represent the PHoF in any way on this forum, but I’m happy to answer any questions that anyone may have. Thank you!
Quoted from Azmodeus:I don’t have any questions but thanks for the introduction. I bet someone else has good questions.
Again, welcome!
thank you! I noticed you’re from Fullerton. A lot of my high school graduating class went to CSUF. My HS football team used to play at their stadium.
I miss Rock N Java. It was a coffee house in Fullerton. But I’m really old so no one else probably remembers it. Lol.
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
