I kind of regret donating to this place after reading this thread. Bummer.

PHoF Las Vegas Boulevard location report for too-many-pins:
May 2, 2021
3:30pm PDT

At this time there were 372 pins on the floor on legs. Some do not have their heads attached. This does not include the pile of totally disassembled games pictured. It also doesn't include pins in the non-public storage areas.

All of the EM games I posted about being off are still off and out of order with the same notes from four days earlier.

Most pins are spaced 4 to 5 feet apart when measured from their center line.

There are about 75 video and Arcade games. 75% were on and appeared working.

There are also bubble hockey and bubble soccer games. Also DDR, Guitar Hero, several crane machines, Zoltar, a foot massage machine, Sega domed basketball, Bally World Cup Soccer from the late '60's with a newer Bally stainless steel pinball coin door. I counted the Pitch and Bats as pins.

I did not count the two Disneyland toy factory machine (set for four bucks a pop) as neither was working. Nor did I count the dozen or so bill changers sitting around. I did count Stern's Transformers "The Pin" that had a coin mech added. Similar to the Bally Captain Fantastic Professional Home Model with added crappy coin mech.

As for the modern Sterns, Indiana Jones, Elvira HoH, Family Guy and Tron were off.

Someone else asked about the rarest game. I'd say it's the Rock-Ola Jig Saw.

Also pictured is a creative back door for a Williams Ball Park pitch & Bat. There were aboot forty cars in the lot when I arrived.
20210502_145059 (resized).jpg20210502_144826 (resized).jpg20210502_150232 (resized).jpg

I’ve only been to PHoF once at the previous location. Never had any issues, even fist bumped Tim twice and chatted with him a little bit. Between him and the helpers running around with caveman lamps they have their hands full of things to fix and then some. Some games were in better state of repair than others. Most of the 90s WMS BLY it was nice to hear the speech calls and background music even if there was a switch or two broken. Not tournament ready by any means but it is what it is. Move on to a different machine. I’d certainly look forward to seeing the new site.

The fancy car makes another appearance!

I think he drives an Audio just a guess though...

THANKS! That is the kind of update I have been begging for. I know it really doesn't matter to most people but I am always interested in numbers and progress. When I set up at shows I love to talk to the promoters about the numbers from the show (stuff like number of people through the door compared to previous years, number of machines in freeplay, did they fill all the vendor spaces, etc.). I have always been a numbers guy for some reason and love hearing about that kind of thing.

At some point down the road it would be great to have a full list of machines in PHOF like some of the other pinball locations publish but as with so many other things I doubt that will ever happen unless someone from the outside does that.

Anyway - if anyone cares I started another post here on Pinside yesterday asking for updated pictures & information without the talk about the other stuff. I hate the same old BS over and over again and just wanted a place to get information - NOT old news.

Never heard of an "Audio" car brand.........it must be LOUD!!!

so, the headcount at a given moment was 400?
or traffic for the entire day was 400 customers total ?

which should we expect for a

Damn auto complete

Sounds like Tim is off to a great start in the new location especially considering PHoF isn't even "officially" open yet. Also I love your post - more or less the exact point I have been trying to make with people here on Pinside for years. Tim is not trying to win a popularity contest he is running an "old school arcade" the way he has been doing it for years.

I would love to see pictures of the place when it is packed like it was Saturday. I would also love to hear more about progress with getting more stuff set up and running for the customers. I know this is a massive undertaking and it will likely be a couple years before everything is moved into the new location and the place is totally maxed out with machines but what a bunch of volunteers has been able to accomplish under Tim's leadership is amazing to me.

When I saw the letters spell “PINBALL” in red on the new building I knew my money went to a great cause. Congratulations to Tim and the whole crew at the PHoF.

You can rest assured none of the money that comes into PHoF will be wasted as long as Tim is in charge of things. People mock him for being cheap but Tim knows how to "stretch a buck" and has never strayed from his roots as he has gotten more and more successful. "Keep in Simple" should be another "catch phrase" when talking about the way Tim runs PHoF. Nothing fancy - just get as many machines as possible collecting quarters so he can give those quarters to a good cause.

How many people would build a $10 million dollar building and then just paint "PINBALL" on the top of the front of their building as their sign. Most people would have spent tens of thousands of dollars with an unneeded fancy sign. Not Tim!

well, unless im reading it wrong, the following statement does sound as if tim spent $540,000 for a 60 foot obelisk to put out on his sidewalk.

you mean like how he missed his estimate for building out this project by $1,500,000.

I don't know if you have ever built anything requiring permits using contractors but if you have you will realize how silly your second comment is. Even during "normal times" it is very hard keeping a project on budget but right now it is even worse with the cost of most building materials being nearly double what they were just before this Corona Virus mess started. But even without that a 10% "overrun" is pretty much considered normal on any major project.

Regardless of what anyone post here or anywhere else there will always be the haters and that is something that just isn't going to change. Put 10 people in any room and try to get them to agree on anything these days and it just isn't going to happen. So why would PHoF and Tim be any different.

What I was referring to is the people "mocking" his hand written sign on the door of the old place (on a piece of poster paper) or the hand written sign with the "rules" when you come into the new place. Tim is pretty much a down and dirty no frills type guy.

As far as "the details" of the cost of the project, cost overruns, etc - that stuff happens. As far as the way he runs the place with 100% volunteer staff, keeping lots of lights turned off (at the old place), not have the A/C as cool as some people think it should be, using an old playfield for a back door on an EM machine, etc that is the stuff I was referring to.

Here is an idea - why doesn't someone start a new thread "Bitch Fest about PHoF & Tim". I just can't wrap my head around why a few people feel the need to keep going negative as far as PHoF & Tim goes. What is that going to accomplish? How would they feel if people were doing that to them? To me is is just like the bully when we were in grade school! Enough said!

I'll say it. To me, that sign is garish and odd. Not bitching, not being negative, just making an observation.

The first time I saw it, I thought it had to be photoshopped.

From the front it almost obscures the building!

It looks like a billboard advertising, um, the concept of pinball, maybe?

Why not at least have it say "HALL OF FAME" somewhere?

But that's just my opinion, I concede that Tim knows best! It is hard to miss, I suppose. At least it's not in Comic Sans!

phofsign (resized).jpg

It's a giant, huge, titanic sign in Las Vegas that says PINBALL.

Pretty much the coolest sign ever if you are into pinball I'd think.

100% agree!

I don't disagree with you one bit by any of what you said. I will have to disagree with his gofundme/asking for donations. When you are a company that underbudgeted for a move, have well over a million dollars in equity, then asks for 100K to help bail him out? Come on now guys. A pinball circus sale would have easily paid for cost. I can respect what Tim is doing, and I have been to the PHOF one time. I enjoyed my experience and have nothing bad to say about the establishment.

I guess where my reservations lie is the blatant manipulation of the pinball community by asking for donations from a money heavy community. We know this is an expensive hobby, why not capitalize? The community is just as blind for buying in by donating to a cause for a guy that's already swimming in money. He clearly bit off a little more than he could chew, and asks for financial help? Do you see stern, JJP, or any public establishment doing the same? No. They have a sound business model. Equally I think PHOF just used its name to muscle in the already cracked door by using its stake as the largest public place to play in the US. I think any other location that boasts a large public collection to play would never even consider starting a charity to generate revenue. Perhaps only asking for able bodies to donate TIME.

Note his webpage asking for donations
http://pinballmuseum.org/support.php

Also note his webpage showing his donations, but the last one being over a decade ago? Where's all those donations over the last decade Tim? Lets see those contributions.
http://pinballmuseum.org/donate.php

How about a webpage to showcase everyone that donated to the pinball HOF?
Oh we don't have one of those? Surprising. Must be under construction.

Point is that the guy provides a service just like how we all work our 9-5. WE don't get any monetary support from our employer. This is no different, this just pulls on your heart strings because you care. This was a money grab when clearly the funds were there The pictures were an indicator of that.

Gundam_Pilot_ , congratulations on being one of the very few people to be completely unaffected by the COVID-19 pandemic.

Except, it was clearly stated that everything was budgeted for a normal year. But then covid happened and expected attendance/earnings dropped due to shutdowns.

I want to make this clear, I know I am in the minority for feeling this way, but I equally think it’s one of those “taboo” things to be in the minority about. I am just telling it how I see it and would appreciate valid conjecture to offset my basis.

I am not sure where covid comes into play here.

Yes. Covid happened, and even better yet, pinball prices soared with multiple stimulus being dished out. Essentially making it easier to turn and burn games and come up with scratch. Apparently saving what you can, and focusing on your financial longevity despite what is happening in the world is something people don’t consider anymore.
Perhaps I should live outside my means and ask forgiveness from my home loan institution when I can’t pay my mortgage. But I can start up a charity while I sit on my pinball collection (that could pay my bills) with no intention to sell.

Priorities I guess.

First ,I just finished redoing my kitchen and after three permits and FIVE inspections for a house I can only imagine working on a comm. building .Keeping with codes cost. Second really good arcades are not around anymore let alone a great selection of pinballs. So keeping PHOF going via donation or whatever is worth it . Because when their gone their gone. Good job Tim

Right, but you’re sitting on probably 2 million dollars of liquidity that directly is related to the business you can’t afford to run because of “unforeseen circumstances”. Instead of trying to put the burden on himself and having to consolidate/sell games, he put the burden on the community threatening that he could close. Closing was never an option, PHOF had everything they needed to run the business from the entertainment side, and to financially sustain in games. I think 20 replaceable sterns would have bumped PHOF to the target. But clearly it wasn’t an option.

They are not going to sell a one-of-a-kind game. That would be foolish from a curation perspective.

Nobody is forcing anyone to donate. You can do your own research and decide whether or not you want to help or not.

Again, covid. The main source of revenue for the PHOF are visitors. There were basically no visitors for a full year.

They have a different revenue model. They are in manufacturing. They don't rely on walk-in visitors to generate revenue.

Manufacturers have a *different* business model. Businesses that relied on public attendance and/or tourism for revenue were hurt badly.

The PHOF has some name recognition, yes. And?

1) There were several other pinball-related businesses that had fundraisers to help survive the pandemic.
2) The PHOF does not generate revenue as a *result* of its charity status. They generate revenue as the result of the services they provide, then donate that revenue to charity.

People do donate their time.

It's obvious that the website isn't a priority, which is fine. I'm sure they put their time & energy into what helps them the most.

What taboo things?

Since the PHOF doesn't have employees (they only have volunteers), they didn't qualify for PPP stimulus.

You can't be the largest pinball attraction (or any pinball attraction) if you have to sell of a significant portion of your games.

You do understand that covid affected *everyone*, right? Nobody anticipated a *full year* of shutdowns and travel restrictions. That is completely unheard of. Normally, most healthy organizations have 30-90 days of operating costs saved as a cushion for unexpected ocurrances. Pretty much everyone burned through that and then some.

Under normal conditions, sure, that line of thinking would apply. But this was by no means a normal year.

If you think you can set up a legitimate charity organization that fits all the necessary charitable requirements, then go for it. Just because an organization is categorized as a charity, doesn't mean it's set up willy nilly. There are a lot of restrictions and laws that have to be followed.

If you want to set up a museum, business, club, or collective to house your collection, those are all options as well if you don't qualify as a charity.

I appreciate you elaborating on each of my statements. However each of your statements are focused around the same 3 concepts. COVID, charity being option, and more importantly, not selling what you have on the floor because it’s your bread and butter.

The plain fact is PHOF could have sacrificed 10% or less of its games to save the other 90%+ that’s still on the floor. Despite COVID, that money was there before, during, and after the start of covid. The funny thing is that PHOF was boasted for having over 1000 games. We all know social distancing limits their space, but those games not on the floor could have been sold and bought back with PROFITS.

I’d also like to add, I’ve never seen an advertised charity on every single social media/relatable website, and I believe locally (don’t hold me to it). We all know the big charities out there that advertise heavily. But at least those charities are used as a vessel to help people in actual need.
The idea of the charity is to allow people to seek you, not for you to predatorily seek people’s wallets. I didn’t see any of the heavy hitter locations (leaving nameless) utilize the same method to generate income.

I don’t know how other locations around the US have sustained, but I am sure it ends 2 ways. Either the business has folded up due to financial strife, or the business figures it out and makes it through COVID.

COVID sucked. But in this situation, money fixed it all. I just don’t like the way that money was acquired.

If this topic was about the national arm chair museum, nobody would care to defend.

I’m sorry my words hurt.

That's because most of your questions/concerns can be answered by those things.

Maybe, maybe not. The decisions about that are not really a question I can answer since I'm not running the PHOF.

However, one thing to keep in mind is the amount time & cost of repairs for new acquisitions--there's more to it than just the buy/sell price. Think about the amount of time you spend on a small game collection then multiply that by hundreds.

They are alternating which games are on or off for social distancing. Otherwise, the games are being packed in as closely together as possible.

Because it is a charity, they are not allowed to profit. A charity has to be operated in a much different way than a for-profit business. Most revenue either has to go directly to funding operations costs, or needs to be redistributed to charitable operations.

The PHOF uses their establishment to raise revenue, and donates that revenue to the charities that help directly.

I don't see any predatory practices happening here. They explained their situation and asked for help. That's about it.

Do you mean leveraging name recognition to help draw attention to their situation? Pretty much everyone does that. Heck, my local YMCA did that (which is a charity organization).

You also forgot to mention massive debt.

Money helps, sure. But it doesn't fix all. The stress and emotional toll can be very difficult as well, and money doesn't really fix that. A lot of people faced a lot of hardships. Some people even unexpectedly lost friends, family, and colleagues. For some families and organizations, the person who was lost may have been the key person that made everything run. No amount of money can really fix that.

If this was a forum dedicated to armchair collecting, I'm sure the status of the national armchair museum would be a topic for concern. Since this forum is dedicated to pinball, the PHOF is an area of concern.

You're the one who seems to be very bothered by the PHOF fundraiser. If you don't want to donate, you don't have to, and that's completely up to you. All I'm trying to do is fill in some of the missing pieces and correct some things.

https://www.si.edu/spotlight/chair-design
You sir are greatly mistaken. I always defend the armchair. Humans have been sitting for a lot longer than playing pinball.

We all get your point. No need to repeat yourself.
Now, for a fact, I know Tim won't miss you stopping by.
Please make your point by not ever going.
You will show him.

Now, grab a chair and relax.

Also:

https://www.mcny.org/node/331

http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/research-collections/history/cultural-history/collections/furniture

https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/keywords/furniture/

https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencollection/tags/furniture

https://www.thehenryford.org/visit/henry-ford-museum/exhibits/fully-furnished/

I'm sure there are many more examples of furniture collections in museums.

Right you are.

And as we get older. We often have more to sit with and really enjoy our arm chairs.

LTG : )

I found the pinball themed one.

02D4AE62-305D-4D1A-A70B-90C38E46CF92 (resized).png

Honestly at this point if I had to give up pinball or armchairs, goodbye pinball.

I've made 4 trips to PHOF in last two weeks. Yes its a bit of a mess inside and still coming together for July 1st opening but is still AMAZING! Each time I've visited I've had FUN!!! Like a lot of fun. Like enough fun to keep going back. I prefer modern Sterns and 90s DMDs and PHOF has plenty of those operating flawlessly. Everyone needs to chill on Tim. Who cares if he's a grumpy old guy?? He's got 100s of Pinball Machines and a large # of 80-90s arcade games for you to play. If thats not enough then PHOF probably isn't for you. Its just a fun place owned by a not so outwardly fun guy. I can look the other way if he wants to bitch about the smell of weed in the air. Relax Fam...its just Pinball.

Tim has given most of his adult life to charity working 100% for free for over 20 years with all proceeds from PHoF (after operating expenses are taken out) given to charity and he is wrong for starting a Go-Fund-Me asking people THAT CHOOSE TO HELP for a little money to help him through something unforeseen and instead you think he should sell some of his personal collection which he has donated to the PHoF instead of asking for a little help? How much more does one man need to give?

What is so hard to understand - he asked for help - no one is forcing anyone to donate! Tim had donated more than his far share both to start & to grow PHoF. Why it is so hard for a few people to understand this. PHoF is REGISTERED Non-Profit so Tim's hands are tied as far as what he can and can't do legally.

So in the end it is really pretty simple - if you like and want to support his cause donate what you can both on the go-fund-me and when you visit in person. If you don't like Tim or don't believe in what he is doing just stay home and play your few machines that you likely rarely share with anyone. If you think you can do it better than Tim go spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on some machines, buy a building, work for free for twenty plus years and see how it turns out for you.

This is really starting to get old - I get it some people don't like Tim but this isn't about Tim's BUSINESS this is about Tim's NON-PROFIT.

During the Winter when the Salvation Army has their cans out collecting money I typically toss a couple dollars in every time I walk by. Not because I can always afford it but because I believe in their cause. Lots of people just walk by or use another door to avoid the bell ringer. That is their choice! Tim asking for a little help is the same thing!

Someone should design, fabricate and program an android, let's call it the TimBot, to resemble Tim and say lots of friendly things along with stating the rules as people enter the PHOF, and listen to their stories about how their brother in law has an old pin in his basement. That way everybody would be happy!

the two of you sound qualified to answer this question.

which number best approximates the percentage of net proceeds that the LVPCC [dba PHOF] has unconditionally donated [actually given away] to charities since its inception in 2006?

100%
80
66
50
33
20

It's a non profit thing. Public information. You should be able to look it up somewhere.

LTG : )

it was a rhetorical question.
i already know the answer.

found this listed on ebay.
couldnt believe there was such a thing.

'ENTITLEMENT TIM' curmudgeon doll.

crosses arms and pouts until you give it something for FREE.

entitlement tim (resized).jpg

Well excuse me. I don't speak rhetorical.

LTG : )

Says the person with a Gray Pinside heart. Take the stick out of your ass Francis.

I want Tim to start one more go fund me, or better yet, a Patreon account to PAY - yes I said it - PAY one experienced tech. Just one. So that when I travel all the way to Vegas, through the grime and filth of the strip, to "Tim the asshole's" giant warehouse to play some of the greatest games ever made, the machines are at least tuned up to "bad arcade" status and not "broken piece of shit" status.

I don't care if he calls me a loser when I walk in the door and/or if an old lady yells at me for something I didn't do. I just want to play a working Bride of Pinbot and show my wife how cool that game and the others I grew up on are. Is this too much to ask? I'll pay for it. Cash if he wants it.

Kind of a "trick question" because he was giving 100% to charity BEFORE he started setting money back to fund the purchase of the move into the new location. When I was out in Vegas a few years ago one of the volunteers was telling me Tim even brought his food and drink from home and wouldn't even use funds from the machines to feed himself. With that said I know Tim had stopped sending money to charity and started saving up for this move a few years ago.

In order to maintain "non-profit" status you have to disclose all that information publicly and IRS also watches where money is going very closely. So if you are implying Tim is cheating the system somehow you are very misinformed.

Bottom line is Tim has given more of himself over the years than all the haters combined have likely given.

Tax documents from 2006-2018 are here: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/260060884

2012 is missing, so that may throw off the charitable contribution total.

If I'm reading all the tax documents correctly and all my math is right, overall from 2006-2018:
13% for charity. Donations to charities varied by year and ranged from a minimum of $11k to a maximum of $508k.
30% for operating expenses (0% for salaries)
52% for liabilities (likely capital projects like new buildings & renovations)
5% for reserves

A couple years went net negative, though most years were a net positive.

For comparison, a healthy non-profit that pays salaries would have operating expenses at 55-65% plus liabilities.

The thinking on the signs changed when the property to the South was sold to a LARGE casino project. The original design was less bold and changed color like a jukebox. We figured that when the new Hotel is built, there will be very limited visibility when driving up the Strip, so we needed a simple sign that would be easy to see and hard to miss while costing less on the BUILDING, while the sign out on the road grew in size and price.

I spend a lot of time driving around Vegas on service calls and errands, and I see a lot of BAD signs. Fancy flowing script, strange proportions, too many words. Our only goal on the new design was to leave no doubt what was inside the building as you grasped a quick glance driving up the Strip. The Faux neon tubing was installed this week and will be illuminated at night as soon as the electrical contractor finishes a rework on a breaker panel.

As far as our charitable contributions, yes, we have cut back to almost nothing to get a world class facility we and the pinball community can be proud of. Many people claim to be CAPITALISTS, but are scared to death of CAPITAL. We took a DEEP plunge and went for it, knowing a simple fact. That the end of this project, ALL and more of the money we spent on this magnificent building will be returned 100 percent or more to our charitable partners. Very seldom does real estate go DOWN in price. It would be even less likely to drop on the Strip, where there are only 35 owners of property all the way from Sahara to the Famous Sign. More than half is owner by one of 2 major casino companies. I am amazed daily by the fact that this little bumble-fuck backwards armature pinball club somehow landed on some of the most productive real estate on the face of the Earth.

As far as the estimations of what this whole project was going to cost, it was very close to what we figured at the beginning. The Land was paid for first, the out-the-door price was 4,567,500. We signed a CONTRACT with a builder for a set-price of 4,100,000. There was NO clauses for price increases. There were several CHANGE ORDERS. These were mostly involving Public Works, a pesky drainage issue, and fixture changes. The contract did not include professional fees, taxes, permits, and quality control-testing. Take it all home, park it in the garage for a nice round 10 million. The final number will be very close to this amount.

Where the problem arose with Covid was on the income side. We were CLOSED for 12 weeks. NO income at all. Then there was a slow and still happening ramp up to today where things are approaching what we were doing at the old spot on Trop. We DID come very close to running out of CASH ON HAND to pay bills. This happened a LOT during Covid to many businesses. I could have solved the whole problem by reaching into my pocket for MORE of my own money, but it was pointed out by other members of our board and outside advisors that it shouldn't ONLY being about Tim making things happen. There were and are still many in the pinhead community that wanted to help. And they did. And I thanks them again

Yes, this DOES represent us selling a bit of our credibility, karma, customer goodwill, or what ever you want to call it. But please keep in mind that all contributions were 100 percent VOLUNTARY. Those who could not afford or didn't like this project were free to NOT help.

Traffic has been very good considering the impact of the Pandemic, which is just now starting to lift. Going forward, we are looking for better results as the whole entertainment sector improves, lifting all boats. The backlog of broken games is shrinking daily, as less time is being spent on construction related matters.

All remaining Covid-restrictions will be lifted June 1st EXCEPT wearing a mask, which we will continue to enforce until the Gov says to stop.

Tony is busy building a custom topped for the next Stern game, Baby Yoda fighting a Baby Shark in a miniature shark tank.

I'm glad I participated in the funding campaign.

-Rob
-visit https://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my replacement LED display boards for model H & S Skee Ball

You really shouldn't have to explain this to any one. It's your business/building etc... No one else here has come close to what you have created. People who donated did it to help out, It does not give them the right to tell you how to run your business. What ever your doing obviously works. Keep doing it

I find the sign awesome. It is smple, insanely huge, and effective.

I'm shocked that some in here are criticizing you for asking for donations for a charity that struggled through covid. Your positive karma is far bigger than your kick-ass sign.

Thanks for clearing up that you are addressing broken games. That is the only consistent complaint I hear that really matters. After all, it's all about pinball.

Once this shit ends, I'll definitely check out the place. Nothing like pinball for 8 hours straight!

The MAIN take away is ZERO salaries (unlike almost any other Non Profit which typically has over 50% going to salaries).
13% of the income going to "the cause" doesn't sound like much but that is still better than most non profits!
Any lastly so much money has gone into expansion so the place can keep getting bigger & better for pinball community to enjoy.
There is more to the story than Tim shared and I really don't want to keep posting here but if anyone wants to know feel free to email me privately and I will be happy to share additional information.

Bottom line Tim has done pretty much all of this with no profit motive for himself and with 100% volunteer help and donations. A HUGE accomplishment for a "simple man" who really doesn't like people all that much.

How about some new pictures of the progress & crowds?