I does not add on all that much because usually someone has put too bright LEDs in and you have all the labor to swap them out.

LEDs add about as much to the resale as a small trash can for a muffler does to a small Japanese car....

I LED my machines to brighten up old inserts, give life to some artwork and to lower the current load on poorly designed power circuits/connectors. Not as an investment to increase the value of the machine.

Personally on some machines I think it can. Mid 90's dmds can look much more modern with LEDs done well. Older pins like system 11s I don't think it fits on though. The other thing a game with LEDs in it usually shows is that the owner has taken care of it and done some work to make it look nice so in general it's likely cleaner

Well, here is my opinion. If you put the value in the game and the time then yes. I took two Wheel of Fortune machines to the TPF and the one the had no LED's was for sale, and the one with LED's was not for sale but people kept asking about buying the one with LED's. Not one taker on the non LED one. However, yes there was side mirrors, Backbox reflector and powder coated that also added to the appeal of the game. So, I wouldn't go on the LED factor alone. As a person of LED's every game including others games. Here is some helpful info. Non-Ghosting LED's and use super whites where there are yellows, Not yellow led's as it does not help much. If that helps at all.

The dim cheap frosted ones are bright enough for me.

Led's allow me to have more machines on a single power circuit, and keep plastics and inserts from getting hot and brittle.

Incandescents can also break and spread glass shards all up in your playfield.

I have seen older pins at auction go for 2 times book that were LED s throughout. Offered in the parking lot a Pin $800, that sold as a result of LEDs for $2,200. Book was $1,100.

should it? probably not. Does it? Yes.

Personally, I install LED's because I like the way they "refresh" a game
(and have never thought of them "increasing a machines value").

It will only raise the value of the machine if you find the right buyer, otherwise some people will always try and use it as a negative to beat you up on price. (It's the same thing with mods as well)

I'll take a cue from Markmon's book:
If I am selling a modded and led'ed out machine, and you don't like mods or LED's, you should probably be looking for a different machine than the one I'm selling

You won't recover the cost of the LEDs unless you install the "ah-OOO-gah!" horn that goes with them.

It may not add too much value to the game, but a proper LED job enhances the ability to sell imo

I don't know anyone in my circle that sees them as a significant bonus when buying a machine (and would probably tell the seller to just take them out if it knocked a couple hundred off the price ). For one, it's a personal preference thing. How one person LED's a machine may not be the same way someone else would do it (so they get replaced anyways). For two, so many people over do it with LED's anyways. I see a ton of LED'd out machines that are completely dark and unplayable (but you sure can see the pretty colored lights!). Again, wind up replaced/modified anyways.

Cliffy's protecting everything? That's a simple addition that, to me, adds a little bit of value if not confidence in what is being sold. Button guards/armor? That's another simple addition that tells me the seller cares a pinch more about the machine being sold than the average flipper. It's an addition I don't see taking off and it has saved me time in ordering/installing it. *shrug*

I suppose if you bought a pin full of leds and removed them you could always turn around and sell them in bulk to someone that wants them. I agree with Sosage, I may choose to put a few in mine but would not want someone else to make that call. I would certainly ask the seller if he could save me the time and swap them all out.

Check out cointaker.com and decide for yourself...maybe they have your game in one of their youtube vids. They sell full kits that mirror the stock colors except its LED.

For a hard-core pin collector it doesn't add anything. Most would prefer to have an unmolested machine.

For a more casual consumer or newbie or someone who just likes LEDs it might possibly "wow" them into paying a little more.

Basically, they are not worth installing if you just plan to "flip" the machine. Install them if you want them - not the next guy.

Everyone likes unmolested machines. You won't hear any complaints about a pin not being monkeyed with.

Not everyone likes modified machines though.

do incandescent ad value? f*ck it i am just gonna sell all games with no bulbs

Personal preference for sure. To me, most games look too bright with them installed everywhere. A few hear and there can be tasteful or make sense in very difficult to reach locations. I've got my first fully LEDd machine en route - will see if they grow on me or if I have to tear them all out.

I definitely wouldn't pay extra for LEDs and on most machines, I would probably request that they be taken out and swapped before purchase.

you saw some idiots then.

I think the value in them is that you have a machine that will not have been subjected to as much heat over the years. I think a lot of people have their own preference in terms of look, so I don't think it adds much value in that regard.

I led all my games, I like the look. Since I own nothing but NIB games, I figure it is another way to take away some added stress to a machine. No heat in the inserts and uses less power and therefore removes the threat of burnt connectors.

I've never heard of a Stern having burned GI connectors. Not a valid reason to install LEDs, IMHO. I think it's funny that so many people are worried about heat from incandescent bulbs, but continue to use steel balls. If you really cared about your game, you'd switch to nylon balls.

Agreed, I went over board on my general illuminations and had to move them around. My wife stated that they were too bright and she couldn't even look at the playfield. LOL.

I tend to remove them before I sell and use them for the next pin. Exceptions are when I put the LED in a spot for a particular reason, such as in pop bumpers or a hard to reach spot.

I Led Every Pin I get !! Weather I use Frosted's , Prem Frosted's , Premium 2's or Retro's ,
Double Led's etc........

All CoinTaker's ,, You Better bet Every $$ that I have in Led's in Gonna be in the Sale Price of

the Pin .. The SM below was an Absolute Beauty !! The New Owner has it as his Center Piece in his Collection , while CC is Hid in the Back .. ( A Very Pleased Customer )

I would Pay More for a Pin that has had the LOVE Treatment , rather than the Just Play me look ...
As you can see below , I incorporated Led's w/ incandescent's ( 4 the 1st Tyme ) Ohh Yea !! Ohh_Yea_!!.gif

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/08-spiderman-is-n-the-br-grg

2008_Spiderman_016.JPG 2008_Spiderman_017.JPG SM_,_New_Leds_and_Mods_001.JPG SM_,_New_Leds_and_Mods_002.JPG Ohh_Yea_!!.gif SM_Green_Goblin_Pumpkin_Bomb_mod_007.JPG

Work of art sir. I need to get extra leds so I can test out different color themes.

This is a good thread. I've been thinking of adding LEDs to my STTNG. I think I might start with just a few and see if I like it. I don't want it to be too bright.

I was against them at first, being a purist and player for over 40 years.
Once I started, I couldn't stop. 8 hours to get the first pin right, (IMO).
Now, much easier. 2 hours or so.

Somethings that people forget in the LED "debate":

Use a q-tip! Clean the inserts out!! Even a 1 month old Xmen, had lots to be cleaned.
Ive seen some LED jobs with dirty inserts..doesnt look good.

Not all LEDs are the same, even from the same vendor, in the same bag.
I've mixed bulbs from 4-5 sources. Sometimes premiums are better, sometimes they are not.
Everyone's eyes are different.

Subtle differences in manufacture of the same DMD game can lead to different opinions of which bulb for a specific spot. I've seen variations in inserts, Screening of plastics, position of lamps etc....

Blinding by LED's can also be a result of players height, and whether the game is played at night, with or without external lighting.

The larger the insert, the larger the LED count. a single LED bulb in a large insert arrow may not be as attractive as a 4 SMD.

Do they add value? I hope so...Some say no, thats OK, they can buy the games the want.
Newer Pinheads, Younger Pinheads gravitate to the LED games.....we watch this at shows all the time.

Some games dont benefit much....TSPP, is one example talked about.

I think the debate might be better to share different color schemes done on the same game, rather then which company, warm, vs natural white, etc.

As an example, I hope to find a game that would benefit from a heavy dose of Cyan.

Changes should be coming to the LED market....more competition. I have started on some new LEDs not in the market that should help GI. New Lenses are coming out as well.
Universal Mods in lighting are already on the board and will become more mainstream.

LEDs or not.....gotta love this Hobby!

For me, well-done LEDs are worth the cost of the LEDs, basically (maybe plus another $20 or so, as someone had to put some time into installing them.) Long-term for me, I think they'll be a must on all my machines to avoid warping plastics and inserts, and prevent GI connectors from burning out so much on WPC games.

Poorly-done LEDs aren't worth much, though.

STTNG & DM .. With & With Out Led's !! Adding Led's is an Art ,,, DM #2 & #3

I have found a nice balance of LED's from pinball life. Concave in the translite. Ghost lights for anything that is blinking. GI has regular ablaze but I am thinking of swapping those again for some concave as the center of the play surface seems a bit dark.

IMG_20130214_180347_(1).jpg IMG_20130306_093609.jpg

I think the problem is that a lot of people think that 200 bucks in LEDs = 1000 more in asking price, which IMO it does NOT.

I also put ablaze 4 led super brights in the jumpbumpers and may match those with the mixmaster colors in the future. also the eye exam skill shot and the jackpot-o-meter have the super brights. I have had a fun time mixing and matching led's between the fireball and the dr dude. I put some of the super brights in the fireball to further light it up and have found a happy medium.

Another reason for me, I love the white light an led produces. An incandescent light creates a yellowish look which I hate.

stupid question here, when you replace them under the inserts you colour match the led to the insert colour rather then having the insert change the lights colour yeah?
Thinking of doing just he insert lights on my space jam to see how it looks and leaving the playfield as bulbs

Of course not, they all have leds in them now

I would pay a bit more for a machine that is older with LED as I know the LED lights last far longer than standard lights that would be less work for me I would be able to focus on enjoying the table.

the leds add value for the cost of them. if it adds more, maybe for the time spent to put them in, if done right, and if someone doesnt want to spend the time to have to do it. other than the appearance of the leds, they add value by using less energy and being easier on connectors and headers on boards. totally understand how some people dislike them, its all opinion on appearance. but, they do use less energy, and are less of a strain on the electronics- you cant argue that part

The age old saying "Opinion's are like ass holes. Everbody has one!" This applies here more than ever. Myself personally I think a non led'd machine looks like it's dirty and needs shopping. When i'm buying a machine I will add value to it if it already has some quality led's in it already. LED'ing a machine is part of the fun of the hobby for me.

B_R you are pinballs Pigsasso! Actually, if you did the lite show on the TFTC that now resides in my livingroom, thanks.

I am holding on to some vintage incandescents. They're not energy efficient, but if you want me to install them in a pin I am selling there will be a significant upcharge for the modification.

I love the white light an incandescent light produces. An LED light creates a bluish look which I hate.

Buying a pin with LEDs is a lot like buying a house with wallpaper. Even if you like wallpaper, you might not like what the previous owner chose. So even if I liked LEDs, I'd prefer to get a game without them so that I could mod it to MY taste.

The LED schemes I see here on Pinside remind me of the metallic wallpaper that was around in the early 80's.

I never understand why some people hate and fight LEDs so much. I get it, you don't like change, everything should be original, even the less efficient, poorly designed stuff. I've LEDed 3 machines. It was a lot of work, the LEDs cost a fair amount and all 3 pins looked better to me when they were done. They were also running cooler. Seems like a no brainer. LEDs definitely add value in my opinion.

.jpg FS_555-LED.jpg

I see more of your playfield in the first picture.

That picture makes me sad, playfield detail or not.

I think LEDs in a TSPP look great.

Some like em some don't but I can tell you what any person purchasing a pin from me will be paying a portion of the cost for the LEDs I put in (it will be included in the price). Every pin I have put LEDs in illuminates the playfield better than just incandescent bulbs making it easier for me to see.

Their is a noticeable difference though and some over do it with the type of LEDs they install so I can see why some will either love or hate them. Those that don't like them would either not buy my pin or buy it thinking the price is fair no big deal either way. As always to each their own.

It makes me sad too. Because it shows you don't know the first thing about pinball lighting.

A game room shouldn't have any sunlight coming in at all. Indirect or otherwise. This has been known for decades. You've got the game backed up against a window letting in all kinds of sunlight. How can you defend the use of LED's when you don't even get the basics of pinball lighting?

LED's add zero value to a pin IMO. If anything, they decrease my offer. Everyone agrees that LED's are okay if done tastefully, yet very few seem to have taste when it come to LED's. None of the LED games pictured in this thread look good IMO. The DD with the brite-as-the-sun flasher going off looks like an example of how not to install LED's. Blinding the player is not the goal.