(Topic ID: 100974)

The true meaning of the terms FIRM and OBO?


By Piparoo

5 years ago



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  • 136 posts
  • 72 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by scott_freeman
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 136 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 5 years ago
    Quoted from sixpakmopar:

    Firm can also mean the item is priced fairly to begin with and the seller has no desire to deal with someone who is going to do nothing but waste time with lowball offers.

    Thats it exactly!

    #102 5 years ago
    Quoted from Piparoo:

    How does my discussing the interpretation and intent of the term FIRM have anything to do an ebay listing having a Buy it Now price?

    It's essentially the same thing. If a seller lists something on eBay with only a "Buy it Now" price, it means they are firm on the price. According to your logic, these sellers should be avoided.

    #103 5 years ago

    Who knew this would be so provocative? The observation I was trying to make is that the inclusion of the terms FIRM and OBO in a for sale listing may influence buyer perceptions above and beyond what those terms literally mean. In that regard, the phrase "buy it now" (at least for me) is nothing at all like the term FIRM, even if the hoped for result on the part of the seller is the same.

    #104 5 years ago
    Quoted from Piparoo:

    Who knew this would be so provocative? The observation I was trying to make is that the inclusion of the terms FIRM and OBO in a for sale listing may influence buyer perceptions above and beyond what those terms literally mean. In that regard, the phrase "buy it now" (at least for me) is nothing at all like the term FIRM, even if the hoped for result on the part of the seller is the same.

    Do you have a suggestion on a way to word it that wouldn't offend you? If I wanted in one or two words to get across the point that I want to sell this game for X amount and if no one wants to pay that I am fine with keeping it. That doesn't mean the price is inflated, it just simply means I won't accept any offers lower than that so I am trying to help you save your time and mine.

    #105 5 years ago
    Quoted from RustyLizard:

    Do you have a suggestion on a way to word it that wouldn't offend you? If I wanted in one or two words to get across the point that I want to sell this game for X amount and if no one wants to pay that I am fine with keeping it. That doesn't mean the price is inflated, it just simply means I won't accept any offers lower than that so I am trying to help you save your time and mine.

    Ha! As many have already suggested in this thread, it doesn't matter much if I get offended (which I don't). I'm just some schmo. I was just wondering if it helps any to add the word FIRM. When I sell something, I tend to just indicate the price without any additional language. But I don't really care if I get lowballers, so I'm not concerned with language to try and weed them out. If it's priced right, it sells at the asking price. I thank lowballers for their offers and move on.

    #107 5 years ago
    Quoted from Piparoo:

    Ha! As many have already suggested in this thread, it doesn't matter much if I get offended (which I don't). I'm just some schmo. I was just wondering if it helps any to add the word FIRM. When I sell something, I tend to just indicate the price without any additional language. But I don't really care if I get lowballers, so I'm not concerned with language to try and weed them out. If it's priced right, it sells at the asking price. I thank lowballers for their offers and move on.

    I guess I wasn't specifically trying to please you. . I just never considered that someone would take it as a negative. I have used the word firm in certain circumstances but not to be cocky, it was just that I knew exactly where my price needed to be. To me an honest seller that uses the word firm just needs to be prepared to keep his item if no one is willing to pay that price.

    #108 5 years ago
    Quoted from egyptrus:

    I think Pip started this thread based on another thread where a $2700 obo taxi was for sale. I commented that when I see something like that (OBO), I tend not to even respond to the ad or make an offer as the seller clearly thinks that his game is worth the price he's asking.
    The way I perceive OBO is that the seller believes his item is valued at the price he's asking but may come down a bit, hence the OBO. However, if the prevailing rate for a taxi is $1200 and you make that offer, I feel pretty confident that you're going to get the "you lowballing son of a gun" response.
    In the case of the taxi, the seller indicated that he would entertain offers but with his asking price well above what most believe a taxi would sell for, OBO really doesn't mean anything in my opinion.
    The wording of the ad doesn't really affect my response. If it's priced fairly and it's a game I'm looking for then I'll respond. I don't mind negotiating so whether it's firm or OBO doesn't really matter. The asking price does.
    Dave

    And the taxi guy wont even respond when an offer is made around the higher end range of values for the game.

    #109 5 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I just put 2k into my Congo and now it looks like a completely different game. No...I don't expect to get my money back. But are you telling me that all the mods I did haven't increased the value of the game? (New powdercoated armor, translite, topper, blinky airplane thingy, LEDs and GI, Gorilla PF and window, FF sound system, PDI glass, superbands, plastics, ramps, shaker motor, mirror blades, recolored cabinet and probably about 10 other things I've forgotten...) If you think this machine is worth the same amount before and after, you're high.

    higher
    PDI glass if the buyer knows what it is and is willing to pay a premium otherwise give me a plain sheet.

    maybe
    Gorilla PF and window
    FF sound system
    plastics and ramps depends on the condition of the originals
    shaker motor depends of buy likes the game as designed or changed and if they can use it somewhere else.
    recolored cabinet depends on the original, how well it was done, are the new ones actually good. I'd prefer a semi worn cab to redecals, its part of the machines history and you don't play the cab

    no
    powdercoated armor
    translite
    topper
    blinky airplane thingy
    LEDs and GI
    superbands not a change in hell you'd pay more because of these
    mirror blades recolored cabinet

    #110 5 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    That's a fair response! But there are people who just want a game that plays, and there are people who want it to look amazing as well. (Those are probably people like me who have a wife who says "what the f**k is that THING???" if the machine doesn't go well with the purdy furniture.) It's not easy, man...

    right but PC trim and blinding rainbow playfields are not attractive to many people.

    #111 5 years ago
    Quoted from calvin12:

    superbands not a change in hell you'd pay more because of these

    I wasn't suggesting anyone would. Just listing all the stuff I did. Forgot target decals, too, but I wouldn't charge more for them. I do think the fact that I replaced all the plastic ramps which had significant wear adds to the value. But the mod value argument wasn't the point of this thread, so I apologize if it seems I hijacked it. I was just addressing the side topic that adding to the machine shouldn't add to the value. I just think that's ridiculous IMHO.

    -6
    #112 5 years ago

    I don't buy/sell pinball machines, but I do buy/sell a lot of camera gear (for personal use, I like to try a lot of things and sell them along the way as I get bored). Firm price indeed coincides with at least a bit higher price than regular and also in my opinion indicates often a bit of an a$$h*le seller. Lowballers are far and between and most of them don't stop at "firm", they do it anyway on any ad they find interesting, it doesn't cost anything . I like ads without "price firm" and rarely if ever I answer ads with "firm" in them if the price isn't a little cheaper than average (and usually it is the most expensive among several active ads). It indicates a difficult person that knows his price is high but wants to rub it in your nose that he intends to stay at that unreasonable price without any space for flexibility. those ads stay for ever. I've had probably close to 100 transactions in that field and both as a seller or buyer 90% I hustled/got hustled for at least minimal correction of price. It shows readiness to interact with people and correct your perspective according to item condition and current market flow.

    #113 5 years ago
    Quoted from Piparoo:

    Who knew this would be so provocative? The observation I was trying to make is that the inclusion of the terms FIRM and OBO in a for sale listing may influence buyer perceptions above and beyond what those terms literally mean. In that regard, the phrase "buy it now" (at least for me) is nothing at all like the term FIRM, even if the hoped for result on the part of the seller is the same.

    Too much psychobabble.

    #114 5 years ago

    I love when pins are overpriced and say firm!!!
    I also believe OBO can mean someone may offer more. An add for a Strange Science at $1500 OBO is going to get lower offers. A Congo listed for $1500 OBO might get higher price offers.

    #115 5 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    I hate the term OBO which means "or best offer". To me, that means the seller should be willing to sell it no matter what the highest, low ball offer may be. Almost no seller means this. Instead, they mean, OMO "or make offer". That means their willingness to consider offers lower than thier asking price but with no obligation to sell.

    Quoted from epthegeek:

    I hate how people use OBO and don't come anywhere close to actually meaning they'll sell to the best offer they get, period.

    I get where you guys are coming from, but it seems kind of silly to get upset when people are simply adhering to a widely accepted convention. Obviously, we all know that OBO stands for "or best offer", but the reality is that very few people use this term literally. Does anybody really expect someone that lists a pin as OBO to sell it no matter how low the best offer is? Of course not, and that's because we all understand that the term has evolved into something much different than its literal translation.

    #116 5 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I get where you guys are coming from, but it seems kind of silly to get upset when people are simply adhering to a widely accepted convention. Obviously, we all know that OBO stands for "or best offer", but the reality is that very few people use this term literally. Does anybody really expect someone that lists a pin as OBO to sell it no matter how low the best offer is? Of course not, and that's because we all understand that the term has evolved into something much different than its literal translation.

    Yeah man, what happened to common sense. This thread is full of over analysis.

    #117 5 years ago
    Quoted from calvin12:

    right but PC trim and blinding rainbow playfields are not attractive to many people.

    Then those people should move on and look for other versions of the game. Not ask the seller to lower price.

    #118 5 years ago

    If I say a price is firm when I sell anything, that's my best price and what I expect to get for it, meaning I will sell for nothing less. I hate negotiating. I'm plain just not good at it. When I go to buy a good or service I pay the tag or advertised price (same as a firm price). The firm price may or not be what the "market" price is and may or may not be overpriced. To say that you won't deal with someone because they indicated the price to be firm is just ridiculous. You don't move on because the price is firm, you move on if you don't like the price. Do you argue with the clerk at the gas station about the "FIRM" price advertised on the sign out front? No, if you don't like the price you just plain go buy your gas somewhere where the price is more to your liking. Bitching about the price being immovable is a joke.

    #119 5 years ago

    I would definitely pay for mods that I want, and probably even their full cost. If it saves me the install time, then it is a value. It is an easy $400+ to add an LED kit and LED OCD board to a pin. I would rather not do it myself if I can avoid it. Last month, I just missed a really nice No Fear last month that already had a pinballbulbs kit in it. I bought a cheaper machine, but it wasn't as nice, and I now have to take the time to install the LEDs. I would have gladly paid the extra to have it already done.

    #120 5 years ago

    And you're exactly the kind of person I'd be looking to sell a machine to. Somebody who knows what went into the machine and can appreciate the love it was shown by the previous owner. Not a machine that was beat to s**t for however many years the guy had it...

    That's why I'd just list my machines with a firm price and wait. Eventually you'll find the right guy for your machine if you're not in a rush to sell. I don't think you should sell anyway when you're hard up for some quick cash.

    11
    #121 5 years ago

    I have priced a machine at my lowest price right up front for quick sale and call it "firm" and usually get several "I will take it" emails, but there is always someone that offers $700 on a $1000 Terminator 2.

    I have learned I can list a brand new Harley for $3500 and someone will still try to negotiate.......

    OBO does not mean they don't know what it's worth....... It simply means a price is listed on the item and feel free to make a reasonable offer, maybe we can come to terms. Most sellers want to get the most the can, and most buyers want to get the best deal they can. Offer is made and inevitably they meet somewhere in the middle or no deal is made.

    I don't think one can make so many assumptions/draw so many conclusions because of the words OBO or Firm.

    I just purchased my wife's car $2500 under blue book.....he was "firm" so I knew he was overpriced, and he would be unpleasant to work with.......wait what?

    #122 5 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    To say that you won't deal with someone because they indicated the price to be firm is just ridiculous. You don't move on because the price is firm, you move on if you don't like the price. Do you argue with the clerk at the gas station about the "FIRM" price advertised on the sign out front? No, if you don't like the price you just plain go buy your gas somewhere where the price is more to your liking. Bitching about the price being immovable is a joke.

    This pretty well sums it up ...

    #123 4 years ago

    And then you have guys like this on craigslist...

    THIS MACHINE IS LIKE NEW USED VERY LITTLE
    ONLY 600 MADE
    EXCELLENT CONDITION
    PRICE IS FIRM NOT NEGOTIABLE!!!
    BEST OFFERS ACCEPTED

    Wait, what? Your price is firm (at $3500 and the machine is a Harley Davidson) yet you're taking best offers. Do you mean you'll take better offers (above $3500) or do you mean that you'll take offers and if you decide your price isn't firm you might consider it?

    Of course, writing in all caps means that they know what they're talking about and that the deal must be a steal, right?

    Dave

    #124 4 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    FIRM = Low ballers and negotiators stay clear.

    This.

    #125 4 years ago

    If a seller has a game listed as "FIRM" and you don't like the price, then just move on, not the game for you. There doesn't need to be hurt feelings, and if it's priced too high who cares, they will just sit on it, no big deal. I personally am sick of the CL auctions people try to have with the old "I've had better offers" speech. My time is definitely valuable and would much rather buy a firm priced pin than deal with the other bs.

    As far as "Mods" go, they are to personalize your item, car or whatever, it doesn't usually add value. I can tell you in the car business you will lose value because your car is "modded" in most cases. People want to mod things their way to make it theirs, not your way. I do my Led's in my game my own way and don't buy kits, same with my cars, computer, etc. I have my own taste and other people have theirs, don't expect to recoup money you've spent "customizing" anything...

    #126 4 years ago
    Quoted from nighttaco:

    If a seller has a game listed as "FIRM" and you don't like the price, then just move on, not the game for you. There doesn't need to be hurt feelings, and if it's priced too high who cares, they will just sit on it, no big deal. I personally am sick of the CL auctions people try to have with the old "I've had better offers" speech. My time is definitely valuable and would much rather buy a firm priced pin than deal with the other bs.
    As far as "Mods" go, they are to personalize your item, car or whatever, it doesn't usually add value. I can tell you in the car business you will lose value because your car is "modded" in most cases. People want to mod things their way to make it theirs, not your way. I do my Led's in my game my own way and don't buy kits, same with my cars, computer, etc. I have my own taste and other people have theirs, don't expect to recoup money you've spent "customizing" anything...

    Says you.

    #127 4 years ago
    Quoted from Piparoo:

    I agree with all of the above comments. For me though, when a price is marked as FIRM, it doesn't matter what the price is, fair or otherwise, I end up passing because of how I perceive the seller.

    well your loss. You created a thread just to tell us you are irrational?

    #128 4 years ago

    Op,
    I have started using ORBO, spelled out , Or Reasonable Best Offer

    If you saw ORBO, would you think something different then OBO?

    I know why I'm using ORBO, just curious on your interpretation

    #129 4 years ago
    Quoted from scott_freeman:

    Op,
    I have started using ORBO, spelled out , Or Reasonable Best Offer
    If you saw ORBO, would you think something different then OBO?
    I know why I'm using ORBO, just curious on your interpretation

    Quoted from Piparoo:

    As for OBO, no matter how fairly it's priced, if the term OBO is included I'm not going to offer asking price. It signals that:
    (1) the seller doesn't know what the true value of their item is and they are fishing,
    (2) desperation to sell, pure and simple

    As for ORBO
    (1) the seller doesn't know what the true "reasonable" value of their item is and they are fishing,
    (2) "reasonably" desperate to sell, pure and simple

    #130 4 years ago

    Know what the difference is between hard and light ??
    You can sleep with a light on......

    #131 4 years ago

    You probably miss a lot of good deals passing on "firm" listings. Sometimes I price something extremely good and I know it. I put firm in the listing because I don't want to waste time on tire kickers and offers I know I won't accept. For example, I just sold a Demo Man for $1,000 yesterday at a "firm" price in 10 minutes. If the seller understands the market and prices something right to begin with, no reason to pass on "firm" listings. Take those blinders off!

    #132 4 years ago
    Quoted from ovfdfireman:

    As for ORBO
    (1) the seller doesn't know what the true "reasonable" value of their item is and they are fishing,
    (2) "reasonably" desperate to sell, pure and simple

    Thanks for your interpretation.

    I was going with reasonable, as in fair, and rational, or with merit. In example,
    $2,500 ORBO, meaning I the seller have an idea of how much they cost to be replaced.

    *If* I was disparate to sell, I'd price it like a fire sale, and have in gone in under an hour.

    #133 4 years ago
    Quoted from scott_freeman:

    Op,
    I have started using ORBO, spelled out , Or Reasonable Best Offer
    If you saw ORBO, would you think something different then OBO?
    I know why I'm using ORBO, just curious on your interpretation

    What's the point? OBO already means the same thing as ORBO. Of course you and the potential buyer may not agree on what's "reasonable" with regard to your item, but I doubt anyone adds OBO to their add with the intention of selling their item for an "unreasonable" price.

    Quoted from scott_freeman:

    *If* I was disparate to sell, I'd price it like a fire sale, and have in gone in under an hour.

    And if you did that you could write "FIRM" in the add and still sell it in an hour, even if OP wouldn't stoop to responding!

    #134 4 years ago

    Great thread...

    I do have to say that I don't generalize on seeing particular keywords such as firm or obo. The words are hints at best, not truth-telling signals as have been suggested by some.

    If I like the pin and the price, I will be contacting the seller and playing it by ear.
    -mof

    #135 4 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Great thread...
    I do have to say that I don't generalize on seeing particular keywords such as firm or obo. The words are hints at best, not truth-telling signals as have been suggested by some.
    If I like the pin and the price, I will be contacting the seller and playing it by ear.
    -mof

    Exactly, you can't rely on those words in an ad any more than you can the words "in great shape". When I see a bunch of wear around the inserts, the seller's definition of "great shape" and mine differ greatly.

    #136 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    What's the point? OBO already means the same thing as ORBO. Of course you and the potential buyer may not agree on what's "reasonable" with regard to your item, but I doubt anyone adds OBO to their add with the intention of selling their item for an "unreasonable" price.

    The point is hopefully to weed out the low-ballers that offer 15%-25% (or whatever) of your asking price.

    just 'Best Offer' implies you are running an auction, and the highest bidder, no matter how low, could be accepted.
    With that, the low ball 25% might win.

    Just me; best wishes to all on their transactions. May you never drive 3 hours, to see your deal fall through.

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