(Topic ID: 100974)

The true meaning of the terms FIRM and OBO?


By Piparoo

4 years ago



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  • 136 posts
  • 72 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by scott_freeman
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 136 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 4 years ago

    Basically you can't please everyone. Enjoying haggling or missing out on great items because of hyper-focusing on words like firm or OBO.

    #52 4 years ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    I have to agree with this. The only "firm" ads I tend to see are ones that are way overpriced IMHO. Those types of ads sit because someone overpayed for a pin, LEDs, mods, whatever and now thinks they should be able to pass that on to someone else and recoup all their costs. Seems the seller adds "firm" so they don't get people offering them what it's really worth since they tired of hearing it and would rather live in fantasy land. IMHO, if something is priced right, you don't need to add "firm" to it, the sale takes care of itself. I can't say I have ever bought a pin with "firm" in the add and I am not a haggler that has to get a lower price. If someone has something I want priced fairly, I will take it, not try to bust them down even more.

    Yea heaven forbid someone wanting to recoup some of the money and time taken to add items to the pin. If you want it stock or think it should be a certain price, throw out a number and say why and let your haggle fest begin.

    #53 4 years ago
    Quoted from boneman91:

    To me, the word FIRM means "take it or leave it" and has an standoff-ish, uncompromising attitude attached to it.

    I agree with this. It's usually a somewhat unmotivated seller. More interested in the money than moving the item.

    I never put FIRM or OBO in an ad, and I still receive both full price and below asking.

    Some people will make offers, some people will pay full price - you should just expect it if you're selling a used item. The amount of BS you deal with depends on the the price you set.

    Although it may reduce a potential buyer's interest, saying "Firm" doesn't help sell an item.

    #54 4 years ago

    I actually prefer to buy firm-priced pins. I don't feel like haggling. Too stressful and makes me feel like a cheap douche. So I go and I look the pin over. If I feel it's a fair price, I hand over the cash. If I don't, I walk. No BS. Both times I bought a machine on firm pricing, I may have paid a few hundred too much. But in retrospect, I'd do it again because they were both turned out to be great machines and worth every penny.

    #55 4 years ago

    I never used to put firm in my craigslist ads, but after selling a bunch of games I've learned this:

    a) if you don't put firm, you're always going to get offered lower. So either you put the game at $2kobo to get $1800 or just list it at $1800 and stop the charade. I prefer the $1800 approach.
    b) firm keeps away people just wasting your time
    c) if someone responds to an ad in all caps or bad grammar, don't respond. Not worth it.

    And I'm not charging ridiculous amounts for games, unless you think $1650 for a Goldeneye or $2400 for a Corvette is unfair.

    #56 4 years ago
    Quoted from Grinder901:

    Yea heaven forbid someone wanting to recoup some of the money and time taken to add items to the pin. If you want it stock or think it should be a certain price, throw out a number and say why and let your haggle fest begin.

    "Some" money is the key. If you overpay for something, it isn't anyone else's responsibility to take on that burden when you go to sell the pin and people shouldn't expect it to be. Same thing to be said if you spend 100 hours adding action figures and color changing lights to a game. Perfect example, today on a pinball enthusiast Facebook group a woman wanted to buy her first pin, a High Speed. She was looking at one that was $3450...but the seller was generous and would go down to $2850 for her. What do you think she would be asking for the game when it comes time to sell? She would be a prime example of someone who would use "firm" cause she is tired of getting offers in the realm of what the game is actually worth. She wouldn't want to take a bath on it, which is understandable, but that does change reality or what the pin is worth.

    #57 4 years ago

    My definition of:
    FIRM: this is my price. I am not going to sell it for cheaper so don't even try.
    OBO: Or Best Offer

    It's really not that hard to understand.

    I believe people list it as firm because either that is what they have into it or think the market value for the pin is and they don't want to be bothered by the pinhead who will ask for a discount because they are looking for a deal.
    I believe people put best offer because either they have it listed to high or they are just trying to get rid of a game and they will entertain offers.

    Again, not hard to understand.

    #58 4 years ago

    Firm is ideal for me, both as a buyer and seller. As a seller I use it when I know I have priced something aggressively to sell, and things just go so much smoother when we all know that up front. As a buyer, I like it for the same certainty. I don't like to negotiate for the fun of it.

    #59 4 years ago
    Quoted from Grinder901:

    Yea heaven forbid someone wanting to recoup some of the money and time taken to add items to the pin.

    In the gun business, it's pretty well known that any modifications you make to a firearm are YOUR mods, and no one else is going to pay you for them. I don't see why a pin would be any different... just because you like adding shitty toys to the playfield doesn't mean that anyone else wants them or should be expected to pay for them.

    #60 4 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    In the gun business, it's pretty well known that any modifications you make to a firearm are YOUR mods, and no one else is going to pay you for them. I don't see why a pin would be any different... just because you like adding shitty toys to the playfield doesn't mean that anyone else wants them or should be expected to pay for them.

    a lot of hobbies are like that, and it makes sense. but then so does a product going considerably down in value once it's used. we'll get there.

    #61 4 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    In the gun business, it's pretty well known that any modifications you make to a firearm are YOUR mods, and no one else is going to pay you for them. I don't see why a pin would be any different... just because you like adding shitty toys to the playfield doesn't mean that anyone else wants them or should be expected to pay for them.

    If a potential buyer thinks the pin has shitty toys on it, then they shouldn't consider adding any value for them...obviously.

    But if a pin has mods on it that a potential buyer likes, for example a Color DMD, why would they NOT be expected to pay a premium for that?

    #62 4 years ago

    I put down once in an pin ad that I was flaccid.

    #63 4 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    If a potential buyer thinks the pin has shitty toys on it, then they shouldn't consider adding any value for them...obviously.
    But if a pin has mods on it that a potential buyer likes, for example a Color DMD, why would they NOT be expected to pay a premium for that?

    Because the seller chose to make that mod. I don't want that mod (even if I do)

    #64 4 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    Because the seller chose to make that mod. I don't want that mod (even if I do)

    Then the seller will be happy to take it out for you and use it in another pin.

    #65 4 years ago

    I think Pip started this thread based on another thread where a $2700 obo taxi was for sale. I commented that when I see something like that (OBO), I tend not to even respond to the ad or make an offer as the seller clearly thinks that his game is worth the price he's asking.

    The way I perceive OBO is that the seller believes his item is valued at the price he's asking but may come down a bit, hence the OBO. However, if the prevailing rate for a taxi is $1200 and you make that offer, I feel pretty confident that you're going to get the "you lowballing son of a gun" response.

    In the case of the taxi, the seller indicated that he would entertain offers but with his asking price well above what most believe a taxi would sell for, OBO really doesn't mean anything in my opinion.

    The wording of the ad doesn't really affect my response. If it's priced fairly and it's a game I'm looking for then I'll respond. I don't mind negotiating so whether it's firm or OBO doesn't really matter. The asking price does.

    Dave

    #66 4 years ago

    Nowadays the term OBO in CL ads means, "I don't care what YOU think it's worth and I'm not going to sell it even for my asking price because I'm starting an auction. I will take the highest bid ABOVE my asking price."

    12
    #67 4 years ago
    Quoted from Piparoo:

    I agree with all of the above comments. For me though, when a price is marked as FIRM, it doesn't matter what the price is, fair or otherwise, I end up passing because of how I perceive the seller.

    Sounds like you're the one that's difficult to work with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone trying to sell something and telling you how much they want for it. Not everyone wants to play haggling games.

    #68 4 years ago

    I always just say "asking price $600, or whatever depending on the title. That price is what I will take minus a hundred or so. If they offer 500 I'll go 550 and then the negotiating is narrowed down. If they come in at 450 I'll say 575! Then they will usually settle back to 550 and it's a done deal! Not rocket science or anything. I don't start out with a ridiculous amount though, I come out with fair average price which I feel I'm pretty good at. I feel most people are, but some people think everything they have is worth premium pricing. And I hate it when people want to 'just get what they have into it'...

    Well if you have 2k into a game worth 1k that's you're problem...
    Try selling a car worth 5k for 8k and say well It has new tires new exhaust new stereo, recent valve job whatever, you're not going to get back everything you put into it!!! It's still a 5k car at the end of the day!

    Tom

    #69 4 years ago

    I just put 2k into my Congo and now it looks like a completely different game. No...I don't expect to get my money back. But are you telling me that all the mods I did haven't increased the value of the game? (New powdercoated armor, translite, topper, blinky airplane thingy, LEDs and GI, Gorilla PF and window, FF sound system, PDI glass, superbands, plastics, ramps, shaker motor, mirror blades, recolored cabinet and probably about 10 other things I've forgotten...) If you think this machine is worth the same amount before and after, you're high. Look at the pics (which I posted on another thread, but apply here to the discussion we're having - so please forgive the duplicate!):

    Before:
    CG1.jpgCG4.jpg

    After:
    photo 2.JPGphoto 3.JPG

    #70 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I just put 2k into my Congo and now it looks like a completely different game. No...I don't expect to get my money back. But are you telling me that all the mods I did haven't increased the value of the game? (New powdercoated armor, translite, topper, blinky airplane thingy, LEDs and GI, Gorilla PF and window, FF sound system, PDI glass, superbands, plastics, shaker motor, mirror blades, recolored cabinet and probably about 10 other things I've forgotten...) If you think this machine is worth the same amount before and after, you're high. Look at the pics (which I posted on another thread, but apply here to the discussion we're having - so please forgive the duplicate!):
    Before:

    After:

    CG1.jpg 91 KB

    CG4.jpg 109 KB

    photo 2.JPG 35 KB

    photo 3.JPG 59 KB

    It kind of depends. For some people (like me) you've barely done anything to make me want to pay more. Sound system, yes, everything else, meh. I basically want to put the game in my basement to play (doesn't have to be A+ restored by any means), and I'd rather have a $2k congo that's easy to sell when I'm done then a $3k to $4k congo that's hard to sell. Plus I really don't want to spend $3k on a congo to begin with, if I'm getting into that area I might as well buy Whitewater or some other $3k to $4k range game. That's just my opinion though, I'm sure most people don't share it.

    #71 4 years ago

    The most interesting sales posts to me are "If I do not get my price (overpricing the pin 80% of the time), then I will just keep it then, which is fine by me."

    When these sellers walked up to ask a person for a date did they say "Hey let's go out sometime, but if you say no that's fine with me?".

    Uh, we're you planning on donating it to charity if no one wanted to pay your price? No? Well then of coarse you were going to keep it. Are sellers saying this to be cool and to protect their egos like saying "hey, if I don't get what I want in life it's all good, man." Are these sellers so wishy-washy they are going to let others decide the fate of their wants and don't wants? We're these sellers planning to keep a pin they are tired of or don't like over $200? Good decision!? Keep that pin in the corner of your game room and have it collect dust, but at least you have the feeling of knowing you were right and the buyers were wrong.

    #72 4 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    My time is my most valuable asset. Plus i hate haggling and negotiating, it's all just ego BS. I'd much rather set a fair price, find an interested party, and move on. But everyone's gotta start out with lowball offers so they don't feel like they're getting taken. Such a dumb dance.

    This. Exactly. I want to sell 3 or 4 of my machines and have totally been procrastinating because I hate the dumb dance.

    #73 4 years ago
    Quoted from taylor34:

    It kind of depends. For some people (like me) you've barely done anything to make me want to pay more. Sound system, yes, everything else, meh. I basically want to put the game in my basement to play (doesn't have to be A+ restored by any means), and I'd rather have a $2k congo that's easy to sell when I'm done then a $3k to $4k congo that's hard to sell. Plus I really don't want to spend $3k on a congo to begin with, if I'm getting into that area I might as well buy Whitewater or some other $3k to $4k range game. That's just my opinion though, I'm sure most people don't share it.

    That's a fair response! But there are people who just want a game that plays, and there are people who want it to look amazing as well. (Those are probably people like me who have a wife who says "what the f**k is that THING???" if the machine doesn't go well with the purdy furniture.) It's not easy, man...

    #74 4 years ago

    To me, OBO means they will sell it to the highest bidder. So there is a chance he will sell it out from under me on my way over to pick it up.

    What I don't get is the "If I don't get my absurdly high asking price, I will take it to the dump" people. So you will do the hassle of hauling it to the dump and pay the fee because instead of putting $500 in your pocket?

    #75 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    If you think this machine is worth the same amount before and after, you're high. Look at the pics (which I posted on another thread, but apply here to the discussion we're having - so please forgive the duplicate!):

    Like what taylor34 is getting at, it's not anymore exciting to me than a standard 2K Congo, and in a lot of ways it's worse IMO. Toppers, Mirror blades, superbands...mean nothing to me.

    #76 4 years ago

    Neither "FIRM" nor "OBO" bother me in the slightest...Now "Make Me An Offer" on the other hand

    #77 4 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    My definition of:
    FIRM: this is my price. I am not going to sell it for cheaper so don't even try.
    OBO: Or Best Offer
    It's really not that hard to understand.
    I believe people list it as firm because either that is what they have into it or think the market value for the pin is and they don't want to be bothered by the pinhead who will ask for a discount because they are looking for a deal.
    I believe people put best offer because either they have it listed to high or they are just trying to get rid of a game and they will entertain offers.
    Again, not hard to understand.

    this.gif

    #78 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    That's a fair response! But there are people who just want a game that plays, and there are people who want it to look amazing as well. (Those are probably people like me who have a wife who says "what the f**k is that THING???" if the machine doesn't go well with the purdy furniture.) It's not easy, man...

    I hear ya

    #79 4 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    In the gun business, it's pretty well known that any modifications you make to a firearm are YOUR mods, and no one else is going to pay you for them. I don't see why a pin would be any different... just because you like adding shitty toys to the playfield doesn't mean that anyone else wants them or should be expected to pay for them.

    If every potential buyer sees no value in the mods added, then your view makes sense -- why try to charge extra for something that is of no value to anyone? Poorly exectued or truly tacky mods might fall into this category.

    On the other hand, if there's a segment of the buying market that views the mods as an improvement (and might even pay to do those mods themselves if they bought a stock game) then it seems perfectly reasonable to price the game factoring in the value of the mods to someone that wants them. Of course the seller is making a trade off if they price that way, limiting their field of potential buyers to only those that value the mods (since the value won't be there for folks such as yourself that will either ignore or remove the mods). But if they're not under pressure to sell quickly, why shouldn't they test the waters and see if there's a like-minded person out there that sees the value in what they spent money on?

    #80 4 years ago

    Actually if I want to move something quick I price it below current market and say FIRM. That's pretty much how I use eBay. All my crap on eBay is priced "Buy it Now" right were I want it and just below were other matching items have recently sold. My stuff usually goes in a day or two.....sometimes three.

    If I really don't care if it sells right away or not I will price it above market and add OBO.

    #81 4 years ago

    Nothing wrong with using the word "FIRM" its no different than the Buy It Now on ebay. It isn't an auction.

    *funny, another reference to "buy it Now" a few seconds before me lol

    #82 4 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    Sounds like you're the one that's difficult to work with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone trying to sell something and telling you how much they want for it. Not everyone wants to play haggling games.

    Yes, haggling sucks and most people that I know don't like to buy things that way. Price something fairly and buy it or not, buyer's choice.

    #83 4 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    My time is my most valuable asset. Plus i hate haggling and negotiating, it's all just ego BS. I'd much rather set a fair price, find an interested party, and move on. But everyone's gotta start out with lowball offers so they don't feel like they're getting taken. Such a dumb dance.

    Well said pez

    #84 4 years ago

    I will say this: when I sell one of my games, I'll probably give a price as is, or give the option to remove mods for certain prices each to get the price down. I'm fairly sure I can sell toppers and mods to other pinheads on the second-hand market. But certain things would have to stay with the machine, like the powdercoating, speakers, and shaker. I think a la carte sales are the best way to buy a second hand pin. Don't like it? I'll take it out, charge you less, and just pass the difference on to somebody who wants it.

    #85 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I just put 2k into my Congo and now it looks like a completely different game. No...I don't expect to get my money back. But are you telling me that all the mods I did haven't increased the value of the game? (New powdercoated armor, translite, topper, blinky airplane thingy, LEDs and GI, Gorilla PF and window, FF sound system, PDI glass, superbands, plastics, ramps, shaker motor, mirror blades, recolored cabinet and probably about 10 other things I've forgotten...) If you think this machine is worth the same amount before and after, you're high. Look at the pics (which I posted on another thread, but apply here to the discussion we're having - so please forgive the duplicate!):
    Before:

    After:

    CG1.jpg 91 KB

    CG4.jpg 109 KB

    photo 2.JPG 35 KB

    photo 3.JPG 59 KB

    It is gorgeous, and you did a great job. Of course it looks much better in the second pics, and I am sure there are people out there looking to buy the nicest flashiest pins to put on display and show off to their friends. However, I personally would never buy that type because I dont want to pay extra for flash. Not because it isnt worth it, or worth the extra money in general, but because to me most of the fun of getting a new pin now is shopping it out, changing the bulbs to a custom design, finding/buying little mods, and adding a personal touch. I want the cheaper dirty pin in need of a makeover instead of the runway model version. The problem is most pins these days are already revamped to runway model status at a higher price, and it is harder and harder to find the project pins that need some help at a reasonable starting price.

    #86 4 years ago
    Quoted from blondetall:

    The problem is most pins these days are already revamped to runway model status at a higher price, and it is harder and harder to find the project pins that need some help at a reasonable starting price.

    Soooooo true.

    #87 4 years ago

    There was this guy I did work for who owned a retail pinball store many years ago and i'll never forget how he used to deal with lowballers. When I mean lowballer, I mean the kind who are obviously insulting you with like a half price offer. He would literally just point to the door and tell them to leave, but he was serious, if he didn't like them he would tell them to get the f*** out. Now your talking a big imposing guy, vietnam veteran wearing an old worn army green jacket, people would have this shocked look on their faces as they left. I would ask him why he did that, and he would explain to me what he called "f*** you money". Huh? I have enough money in the bank where I can afford to tell a few people here and there to go f*** themselves. You can argue whether or not you agree with this but at the time I found it very amusing to watch and never forgot his "f*** you money" speech......

    Post edited by moderator: Language

    #88 4 years ago
    Quoted from Piparoo:

    I agree with all of the above comments. For me though, when a price is marked as FIRM, it doesn't matter what the price is, fair or otherwise, I end up passing because of how I perceive the seller.

    I have the same gut reaction to "FIRM" prices, especially since 9 out of 10 end up lowering the price Probably just a control thing. Can't say I would pass on all FIRM listing, but it's a negative first impression for me...

    #89 4 years ago

    I generally price my machines quite fairly. As a result, I use the term firm, and usually sell very quickly...

    #90 4 years ago

    Firm means 'I don't want deadbeats lowballing me' OBO means 'I put some meat on my price and will listen to your offer'

    #91 4 years ago

    I'll admit that one does bug the crap out of me.

    Day one: "$5800.00 FIRM"

    Day two: "Bump"

    Day three: "New lower price: $5500.00"

    #92 4 years ago
    Quoted from Piparoo:

    For me though, when a price is marked as FIRM, it doesn't matter what the price is, fair or otherwise, I end up passing because of how I perceive the seller.

    So I take it you never buy anything on eBay using "Buy it Now"?

    #93 4 years ago

    A lot of times FIRM is added to a description after the seller has lowered their initial asking price to the point where they would rather keep it than go any lower. Everyone has a bottom value for their game when they put it up for sale. Using the word FIRM just means take it or leave it. Assuming the seller is a certain type of person because of a word is idiotic.

    #94 4 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    So I take it you never buy anything on eBay using "Buy it Now"?

    How does my discussing the interpretation and intent of the term FIRM have anything to do an ebay listing having a Buy it Now price?

    #95 4 years ago

    I think that judging whether or not to consider a pin based on the inclision of 'firm' or 'OBO' in the ad is very limiting. Different people mean different things when using these terms but "I'm a jerk" or "I don't know what I have/I'm desparate" are limiting descriptions. I put out the last Genie as OBO, perhaps that's why you didn't make an offer

    Seriously though, I use OBO often meaning I might negotiate. I haven't used firm yet but I'd like to think if I did I'd mean it, that is what I'll take minimum. No more, no less. I'll leave the interpretation for two things: the price and the actual machine.

    #96 4 years ago

    If I want it and I have cash It doesn't matter. Firm OBO who cares.

    If I am selling I never say firm or OBO I just list the price. If you low ball I say thanks for the offer and move on. If you are close we negotiate. The last two I sold just went for full price so I must be in the right neighborhood.

    #97 4 years ago

    Neither means anything to me in a pinball ad, because neither term matters in the end.

    #98 4 years ago

    Firm = Overpriced

    Bump = OBO

    OBO = PM me

    "If I don't get my price I'll just keep it" = In a few weeks I will start a new FS thread with a lower price

    #99 4 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    So I take it you never buy anything on eBay using "Buy it Now"?

    Did that once. Had a bad hangover the following day. Coincidence I think not.

    #100 4 years ago

    Firm means no offers, or best offer is shoot me an offer and I'll see if I'll take it. I don't get the confusion at all.

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