(Topic ID: 264759)

The top 100 should be closed


By dnapac

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 128 posts
  • 74 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 50 days ago by Viggin900
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 128 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 3 months ago
    Quoted from robin:

    It was actually a very deliberate decision, which I though about long and hard when implementing the game grouping.
    I view the LE as the ultimate representation of the game, as it was intended by the designer. The pro version, on the other hand, is mostly a watered down "light" version (and at a much lower price point), meant to skim the market.
    But to be able to realistically compare the modern games from different manufacturers to any of the Stern offerings, it makes the most sense to compare them at that high "LE" price point (i.e. other manufacturers don't offer that 'pro' version).
    I hope that makes sense.
    A funny thing, for me personally, is that I sometimes like Sterns pro's more than I like their Premium/LE's. For example, I think the mini playfield in GoT totally ruins the speed and flow of the game. But that's just my opinion of course

    Serious question, why does Dialed In only have one listing instead of separated Standard, LE, and CE?

    Edit: I just looked at the top 100 and Batman 66 and Wizard of Oz only have one listing too. Shouldn’t Batman 66 SLE be the ultimate representation of that pin. I’m just curious how you choose to apply the separation.

    Thanks

    #102 3 months ago
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    #103 3 months ago

    Just my suggestion for how to improve the top 100.

    Average the scores across all game models into 1 score and make that the score ranking is based upon versus the highest end model. This would eliminate the POTC CE situation we are seeing today as well as when new Stern LE's are released. POTC would still be ranked #1 at 8.92 but would have a great chance to move up and down the rankings as opposed to being rated on only a handful of reviews. This option would also discourage review bombing (or review praising). This solution would also still allow for separate model entries (good for filtering, game overview, ads, etc).

    Quoted from Waxx:

    Serious question, why does Dialed In only have one listing instead of separated Standard, LE, and CE?
    Edit: I just looked at the top 100 and Batman 66 and Wizard of Oz only have one listing too. Shouldn’t Batman 66 SLE be the ultimate representation of that pin. I’m just curious how you choose to apply the separation.
    Thanks

    All of those games in my opinion should have unique entries based on how other games are being treated. This is also why I would go with the idea posted above as it would prevent Dialed In, WOZ , Batman 66, EHOH, from being ranked unfairly high (all have a super high end model) based on only a handful of reviews of the highest end model.

    #104 3 months ago

    It's funny how you can give a game an honest rating from an honest experience and the owners will flag the review. Only the highest praise for their machines!

    #105 3 months ago

    I do not look at top 100 ratings . For those whom do look good for them . If someone has no interest lots other venues to spend your time on . Its Robins site , his opinion is really the only one that counts .

    Enjoy the day. Shane

    #106 3 months ago

    Another suggestion for new games. I know this sounds crazy, but let the game sit for a year before you can rate it. None these games are even close to finished until then.

    I can’t even believe that there have been 117 ratings of stranger things already. It’s missing so much.

    #107 3 months ago

    I think we should all go vote Raven a 10.0 as a social experiment and see how close to the top we can get it.

    #108 3 months ago
    Quoted from AJNada:

    It's funny how you can give a game an honest rating from an honest experience and the owners will flag the review. Only the highest praise for their machines!

    What does flagging for review even do? Does it just have the admins review it to make sure the reviewer isn't review bombing (or trying to pump up the score)?

    #109 3 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Another suggestion for new games. I know this sounds crazy, but let the game sit for a year before you can rate it. None these games are even close to finished until then.
    I can’t even believe that there have been 117 ratings of stranger things already. It’s missing so much.

    Yeah good idea, that does hurt game rankings. Still, if manufacturers are going to release games with very incomplete code and or mechanical / quality issues for $6k - $10k+ they deserve most of the poor reviews.

    #110 3 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Yeah good idea, that does hurt game rankings. Still, if manufacturers are going to release games with very incomplete code and or mechanical / quality issues for $6k - $10k+ they deserve most of the poor reviews.

    The reviews don’t matter. Has nothing to do with the manufacturers.

    Just trying to make them better. My comment was that I can’t believe 117 people felt they could make an honest review of an incomplete game. New games are not done the same way they were in the 90s. They are constantly evolving for that first year. You have to adjust things for that if you want these rankings to be anything but a joke.

    I do like the flagging system. Bogus reviews bad or good seem to get sniffed out pretty good.

    I also think you should have to explain your rankings in at least 4 sentences. Haha

    #111 3 months ago

    You personally don't like Pinside ratings, so they should be removed.

    Do I understand correctly?

    #112 3 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Just my suggestion for how to improve the top 100.
    Average the scores across all game models into 1 score and make that the score ranking is based upon versus the highest end model. This would eliminate the POTC CE situation we are seeing today as well as when new Stern LE's are released. POTC would still be ranked #1 at 8.92 but would have a great chance to move up and down the rankings as opposed to being rated on only a handful of reviews. This option would also discourage review bombing (or review praising). This solution would also still allow for separate model entries (good for filtering, game overview, ads, etc).

    All of those games in my opinion should have unique entries based on how other games are being treated. This is also why I would go with the idea posted above as it would prevent Dialed In, WOZ , Batman 66, EHOH, from being ranked unfairly high (all have a super high end model) based on only a handful of reviews of the highest end model.

    There is no perfect and reliable ranking. Criteria are what they are and it looks enough to rate fairly a game. All depends on fair raters
    How to tend to the most fair ranking as possible? Getting the most rates as possible. There is no other way.
    Then use the custom option and put your set up as you want. Personnaly i use the remove outliers option and take into account only games with 25 rates at least. I think 35-40 would be better as 25 looks too low for me and the gap to 100 too high.
    Then you get a more fair ranking. The problem is the games are not grouped like for the main top100. You have all models of a game rates separately. I asked why to Robin several times, he never answered me.

    #113 3 months ago

    :

    Quoted from dnapac:

    I’ve decided that rating a pin has become useless. It should be eliminated. Too many haters and too many fanboys...or too many companies trying to sway the vote. It should be done.

    "Too many haters and too many fanoys"
    U say that like its a bad thing.
    Its useless as a guide to what pins u should buy, or as any actual measure of fun factor. That's all relative to the individual. However, I like rating games, I'll change them so my personal list of rated games are where they should be but the top 100 means nothing in correlation with my list. I also like seeing who gives pins a 1 or 2 or even 3 rating that helps with knowing with whom ur dealing. If I see WOZ 10 and BK3 at 1, its pretty clear that the fun is about to begin.

    #114 3 months ago
    Quoted from atrainn:

    What does flagging for review even do? Does it just have the admins review it to make sure the reviewer isn't review bombing (or trying to pump up the score)?

    I imagine so. I've seen some ratings with very little description and very low scores get flagged justifiably, as well as perfect 10s from owners. But flagging honest reviews, especially ones with established reasons, is just silly.

    I think some owners of top ranked pins are associating ranking with value, so if you give a pin a lower review than their pinside average, they see it as a threat to the value of their 'investment.' Just a thought I had.

    I could care less about the value of my pins OR their rankings on any site. I have them to PLAY.

    #115 3 months ago
    Quoted from AJNada:

    I could care less about the value of my pins OR their rankings on any site. I have them to PLAY.

    I don’t believe you. If it were true you wouldn’t be reading and posting here.

    Everybody wants to see their opinions about certain pins being reflected here in the top 100.

    #116 3 months ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    Just to support my point with a good example, the current top machine has been decided by 15 CE owners.[quoted image]

    I see your point there. Still doesn't matter to me. LE/CE versions could be vastly better than a pro/standard version so difficult to represent that. Averaging takes away from that. Also difficult to represent games that started off bad but then got much better with code updates. Maybe most of the reviews were from early code. Then there is the fact that POTC is kind of rare and rare games will naturally be routed less and thus viewer reviews. Always going to be something. Artificially pushing a game up or down defeats the purpose of review based rankings. You might as well just throw out all reviews and just have one person or group decide the entire list.

    #117 3 months ago
    Quoted from branlon8:

    I don’t believe you. If it were true you wouldn’t be reading and posting here.
    Everybody wants to see their opinions about certain pins being reflected here in the top 100.

    No. I'm on here because this is part of me socializing in a shared hobby with other enthusiasts.

    I've shared my opinion about pins I own and do not own. The fact that my ratings reflect in the overall system really doesnt matter to me. I've rated pins for my personal reference. It doesnt bother me at all if someone dislikes a pin that I like. But for others it seems to be an issue.

    #118 3 months ago

    I don’t know that I’ve ever looked at the Pinside Top 100. I only clicked into this thread because I’m bored and thought it sounded like a humorous topic. And it is. I even went to see the list and how you vote for games. Yeah it seems flawed but it’s also just for fun so who cares.

    What I don’t understand though is why every account can’t create and maintain their own personal top 100 list and then have the pinside super computers pull them all together into a pinside top 100. I realize I only looked into this for about 30 total seconds so forgive me if that functionality is in there somewhere. You may now resume your regularly scheduled boredom.

    #119 3 months ago
    Quoted from dnapac:

    I’ve decided that rating a pin has become useless. It should be eliminated. Too many haters and too many fanboys...or too many companies trying to sway the vote. It should be done.

    YES. the system is flawed. But it is broken down into Solid State with 384 games and EM with 257 games.

    You may really like a game that is on the bottom of the list or the top. It is just other peoples opinions, not fact.
    If you intend to keep it forever the list doesn't matter.
    But if you think you may sell it at some time later then it may give you an idea on how well it will sell.

    Also reviews on a game at IPDB.org can help you see a wide range of opinions, and you can look at a single review and see what that person's average rating on all the games they have commented on.

    #120 89 days ago

    Most of us that are criticizing the list aren't saying it's completely broken, only that it can be improved. It could be better, straight up. I still enjoy it though, and I do honestly believe it's decently accurate. But why not raise the accuracy a little more if we can? Either way, as said, it's Robin's site and he gets to decide. Nothing wrong with debating it though.

    3 weeks later
    #121 68 days ago
    Quoted from Waxx:

    Serious question, why does Dialed In only have one listing instead of separated Standard, LE, and CE?
    Edit: I just looked at the top 100 and Batman 66 and Wizard of Oz only have one listing too. Shouldn’t Batman 66 SLE be the ultimate representation of that pin. I’m just curious how you choose to apply the separation.
    Thanks

    Yeh, there is not logic to the multi divisions. Some games get 3 divisions and others none. I can understand dividing Pro and Pre/LE when gameplay is different, but make it consistent across the board. If gameplay is the same, only one ranking. If not, divide it.

    1 week later
    #122 59 days ago
    Quoted from Coindork:

    I think we should all go vote Raven a 10.0 as a social experiment and see how close to the top we can get it.

    And sf2 a 9.9!!

    ....Of to vote!

    #123 59 days ago

    Okay I have a question(s) about the top list and I'm wondering if this has been discussed....

    For the top 100 the list combines a Stern's LE, Premium and Pro.

    Would anything like this ever happen for EM machines that have fewer variances that you'd see on a PF of the above examples? Like the only difference is 2 or 4 player? Would that be too complex of a compilation? I wonder if AAB and replays would make as much sense to do this too? Would the fact that the machine has a completely different title make this a problem?

    (as an aside I'm content with the way things are. I don't take the top 100 with extreme weight or decision making. Most of anything older than 10 years I've pretty much played and formed an opinion on)

    #124 58 days ago
    Quoted from EJS:

    Okay I have a question(s) about the top list and I'm wondering if this has been discussed....
    For the top 100 the list combines a Stern's LE, Premium and Pro.
    Would anything like this ever happen for EM machines that have fewer variances that you'd see on a PF of the above examples? Like the only difference is 2 or 4 player? Would that be too complex of a compilation? I wonder if AAB and replays would make as much sense to do this too? Would the fact that the machine has a completely different title make this a problem?
    (as an aside I'm content with the way things are. I don't take the top 100 with extreme weight or decision making. Most of anything older than 10 years I've pretty much played and formed an opinion on)

    Nah. The EM guys don't take this type of stuff nearly as seriously.

    #125 58 days ago

    One truth about the "rating(s) system(s)" on this site... This is more obvious within the first few months that a game is released...

    This site is MOSTLY made up of young and middle aged men who like expensive toys.

    The default "100 list" (or whatever the hell it's called) is, quite often, justification for spending thousands and thousands of dollars on these adult toys.

    If you know and realize this before you look at that default list, you will be fine. If you DON'T realize this, it will probably drive you insane.

    If you don't want newer games (or whatever games) to show up, just set up/modify the game criteria to make your own custom list(s) for date range from 1900-2018 or whatever... (I thought you could do this and keep multiple views but I could be wrong.)

    I realize there are those that simply rate games and don't own them. That's part of the system but maybe there should be a certain "proof" involved when submitting results. Maybe you should have to type in the serial number (or LE #) of the machine. Nah, too tedious. I mean, would you end up rating a machine that was routed to death with weak flippers exactly the same as a HUO one that has a couple hundred plays on it?

    Complaining about lists of thousand dollar toys is fine, just make sure you understand the dynamics of what is actually happening here.

    1 week later
    #126 51 days ago

    That's a great point! I'm one of those "middle aged" guys that grew up with EM's and early SS units. For many of us, it's all about nostalgia and the "good" feelings we remember from our youth! That doesn't mean that the Eight Ball Deluxe machine is anywhere equal to a ST:TNG (a more modern favorite of mine) in terms of what it contains! The SE version is even more so! My critique of this Top 100 poll would be to divide the categories into four rather than two! Late SS (with Pro, LE, and CE versions included but rated separately), early SS up to 1993 (roughly 15 years with some MAJOR advances), late EM (metal rails - end) and wooden rails and before. There could be a fifth category for "oddball" arcade machines such as baseball, bowling etc... or these could be combined with the wooden rails and before category (the goal being to inform the Pinside community about these machines.) Otherwise, it is what it is, it's useful to me and I will continue to value it's information!

    #127 50 days ago

    Well...if it can’t be closed, can it at least put a mask on?

    #128 50 days ago

    I stopped looking at the top 100 a month ago when I noticed the world was shut down from covid and ratings were coming in on mostly games that were being streamed and not played. No one is going to bars or shows to base an opinion. The most laughable is Pirates jumping to number 1 after a stream and its the rare edetion or something with only 1 on location in the world! That did it for me.

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