(Topic ID: 264759)

The top 100 should be closed


By dnapac

14 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 119 posts
  • 69 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by bob_e
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    There are 119 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 13 days ago

    Anyone have a count how many of these "The Top 100 sucks/needs to be re-done/is used to price pump/yada/yada/yada..." threads there are? My guess is 17

    #52 13 days ago

    I agree with you

    #53 13 days ago
    Quoted from dnapac:

    I’ve decided that rating a pin has become useless. It should be eliminated. Too many haters and too many fanboys...or too many companies trying to sway the vote. It should be done.

    Gee, In just realized I hadn’t looked at the updated top 100 today. Afterall, it is Monday. Thanks for reminding me.

    #54 13 days ago

    The Top-100 is great and anyone who thinks differently is 100%...entitled to their opinion.

    #55 13 days ago

    i always find the 100 to be helpful and you take or give what you know of a game.the only thing i would like to see added is "number of games played"..i know of people who gave terrible ratings then told me they only played 1 or 2 balls and walked away.what good is a rating like this?

    #56 13 days ago

    Heh… it definitely depends upon which era you started pinball!! Those of us that were weaned on EMs and grew up on early SS will see most of our favorite games listed in the 100's and 200's! There are eras to pinball the same as with cars; some want the slow, clanky, simple EMs. Some really like the early SS machines (I got through the first year of college with a Power Play and have just purchased one for myself.) No video modes are necessary! Later machines started adding interesting new ideas and, depending upon when you started, they hold your interest (High Speed got me through graduate school.) Pinball is a lot like cars! You gravitate toward the era you grew up in. Compare a 9-Ball to an 8-Ball and you're in the same ballpark. Compare them to a Pinbot or Paragon and you are in different leagues! Nowadays, BKSoR, JP, TZ, ST, etc... anywhere you look, you're going to see LEDs, Video, modes, toys, tricks, super cool sounds (not just bells and buzzers!) all wrapped up in fantastic storylines! The comparison really isn't fair! So, if you feel slighted by other's opinions of pinball, just remember to put it all in context and just enjoy the game.

    #57 13 days ago
    Quoted from lpeters82:

    The Top-100 is great and anyone who thinks differently is 100%...entitled to their opinion.

    That’s right and you can’t argue with that.

    #58 13 days ago
    Quoted from lpeters82:

    The Top-100 is great and anyone who thinks differently is 100%...entitled to their opinion.

    and should not feel entitled to think that they have the ability to spoil it for everyone else by saying it "should be closed".

    #59 13 days ago

    When I first started I looked to the top 100. Not to tell me I need to purchase a Medieval Madness but just to even see some games that were liked and to let me even access games I had never seen before. My first “must have game” was somewhere near number 80 on the list. The game farthest up I can even possibly want to get is in the 30s range. Any higher than that I can’t justify dropping that amount of money on a game and although it might be fun, the value to fun ratio does not do it for me.

    #60 13 days ago

    I think you might be directing your current work frustrations to other avenues. The top 100 means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. Ask any single person and their lists will differ. If someone is looking at this list to base their decisions on that's on them. Just ignore it, it has zero impact on your collection or your opinion of a game.

    #61 13 days ago
    Quoted from Jmckune:

    My first “must have game” was somewhere near number 80 on the list. The game farthest up I can even possibly want to get is in the 30s range.

    What game is in the 30s and around number 80 that you are referring to?

    I'm very curious.

    #62 13 days ago

    I've never looked at it myself. Sure I'm not the only one...

    #63 13 days ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    What game is in the 30s and around number 80 that you are referring to?
    I'm very curious.

    They are the WPC-89 games. Bride fascinated me with its rotating faces and interesting ball locks, along with the light show and sounds. I believe it is currently in the high 80s last I checked.
    Funhouse is the other. Haven’t had the opportunity to own it yet and I’ve gotten to play it at Pincinnati and that solidified it as an eventual must own. There is one I know of that I’m gonna try to take a stab at once things with this virus clear up. Hopefully I can make it happen.

    #64 13 days ago

    I have my own top 100. Nothing else matters. It’s only pinball

    #65 13 days ago

    Where's the top 100 breakfast cereals FFS? Huh?

    #1. Rocky Road (1986-1987) Chocho, Van and Marsha. Unobtanium deliciousness
    #2. Reese's Puffs (1194-present) sponsored by the insulin manufacturers of 'Merica
    #3. Mini-Wheats (1978-present) best balance of health and candy

    Let's skip a few here....

    #384. Thunderbirds

    #66 13 days ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    Where's the top 100 breakfast cereals FFS? Huh?
    #1. Rocky Road (1986-1987) Chocho, Van and Marsha. Unobtanium deliciousness
    #2. Reese's Puffs (1194-present) sponsored by the insulin manufacturers of 'Merica
    #3. Mini-Wheats (1978-present) best balance of health and candy
    Let's skip a few here....
    #384. Thunderbirds

    Dang, 1194? Reces puffs have seriously stood the test of time!!

    #67 13 days ago

    I love how a mod came in as the first response, explaining why it is why it is.....but decided NOT to close this thread!?! Classic!

    #68 13 days ago
    Quoted from hockeymag8:

    Anyone have a count how many of these "The Top 100 sucks/needs to be re-done/is used to price pump/yada/yada/yada..." threads there are? My guess is 17

    How about a count of the threads from guys complaining about how bad Pinside has become, and how they are considering “taking a break”. The vast majority just obsessively bloviate about it, but never actually go anywhere.

    #69 13 days ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    How about a count of the threads from guys complaining about how bad Pinside has become, and how they are considering “taking a break”.

    Yes, please. We’ll be very much looking forward to your results and the discussion that follows!

    #70 12 days ago

    I feel the opposite way, I think more people should rate games to help flesh out the list. The one thing I hated, that has been fixed, was 3 flavors of the same game taking up 3 different positions. I need to rate more games but I like to really have some time with them before I go throwing up ratings.

    I think Champion Pub alllllll the way down in 76 is a travesty, but I'm not going to start any threads about it.

    #71 12 days ago

    Personally, I have always felt the top 100 to be pretty helpful. As someone who doesn't go to many shows and living in an area where there are not a ton of location spots, I have purchased games based on the general Pinside vibe. Not necessarily the top 100 per se but on group think generally. Most pins in the top 10 for example have a good reason to be there. (I don't personally care for MB but that's beside the point). It is a starting point and nothing else.

    Sure, it is not perfect but generally I think it is good. When you look at the actual rating points, there is not a huge difference in a lot of them. I would say, however, that a top 25 game is generally going to be better than something in the 100+ range. NOT always and not for everyone, but generally.

    #72 12 days ago

    I ignore the ratings - even I sometimes am not sure what number I should give a particular category. But I read all the comments and really appreciate the people that take the time to detail what they like or do not - I put a lot of weight on these if I am contemplating buying.

    #73 12 days ago

    Baby PacMan should be number one!

    #74 12 days ago

    Guessing this thread is largely prompted by the onslaught of bullshit reviews for R&M in the past few days that are fomr people that obviously have not even laid hands on the game.

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    #75 12 days ago

    It's the cycle of Pinside. A new games comes out, early purchasers vote it to the top, people see that, and vote it out of the top...repeat. Once you get in the 100s of ratings you stop seeing the big swings and everyone settles down.

    #76 12 days ago

    All that showed me is that there's some really petty immature people on this site. Which I had already figured out.

    #77 12 days ago

    In custom option, I know what means « removes outliers » but what are they exactly?
    Why « games with at least 50 ratings » has been removed? It seems to me that it is exactly the numbers of ratings significant to start a fair ranking
    Is it possible to add more option of ranking? There are 4 sections to rank (game design, artwork, sound, other aspects), so can we get a ranking per section?
    Just thoughts.

    #78 12 days ago

    The top 100 was more useful a few years ago, before the onslaught of new owners ranked their new games perfect 10's.

    But the current rankings make the game owners feel good. Pin businesses like it too. So really, the only downside is corrupt data.

    And for anyone who really cares (me/us), we know better. So whatever, it doesn't matter. Buy buy buy.. it's top 15 on pinside with only 13 plays!

    #79 11 days ago

    There are a couple ways you can look at the Top 100 list. Firstly, a primer for the uninitiated to get a general idea of the kinds of games that are popular with collectors and players. Secondly, important and significant games throughout pinball history. It does a great job with the former but not so much the latter. A list based on historical significance would be really cool. For example pins like Ballyhoo, Humpty Dumpty, Balls-A-Poppin, Fireball, Eight Ball, Flash, Firepower, High Speed, and Addams Family are all incredibly significant games and many would find it interesting to learn the history of pinball through its most classic games. Just a thought.

    #80 11 days ago

    The only tragic flaw in the list (enough to almost ruin it completely) is that multiple versions of the same game are not averaged. This means that home (LE) owners solely decide the list for newer games. It's a damn shame that such poor logic was used in the design.

    #81 11 days ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    The only tragic flaw in the list (enough to almost ruin it completely) is that multiple versions of the same game are not averaged. This means that home (LE) owners solely decide the list for newer games. It's a damn shame that such poor logic was used in the design.

    It was actually a very deliberate decision, which I though about long and hard when implementing the game grouping.

    I view the LE as the ultimate representation of the game, as it was intended by the designer. The pro version, on the other hand, is mostly a watered down "light" version (and at a much lower price point), meant to skim the market.

    But to be able to realistically compare the modern games from different manufacturers to any of the Stern offerings, it makes the most sense to compare them at that high "LE" price point (i.e. other manufacturers don't offer that 'pro' version).

    I hope that makes sense.

    A funny thing, for me personally, is that I sometimes like Sterns pro's more than I like their Premium/LE's. For example, I think the mini playfield in GoT totally ruins the speed and flow of the game. But that's just my opinion of course

    #82 11 days ago
    Quoted from robin:

    It was actually a very deliberate decision, which I though about long and hard when implementing the game grouping.
    I view the LE as the ultimate representation of the game, as it was intended by the designer. The pro version, on the other hand, is mostly a watered down "light" version (and at a much lower price point), meant to skim the market.
    But to be able to realistically compare the modern games from different manufacturers to any of the Stern offerings, it makes the most sense to compare them at that high "LE" price point (i.e. other manufacturers don't offer that 'pro' version).
    I hope that makes sense.
    A funny thing, for me personally, is that I sometimes like Sterns pro's more than I like their Premium/LE's. For example, I think the mini playfield in GoT totally ruins the speed and flow of the game. But that's just my opinion of course

    Which supports averaging, wouldn't you say? Most LEs, I'd say 95%, end up in homes. This means 95% of rating weight is skewed. Location players have zero say in the ratings.

    #83 11 days ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    Which supports averaging, wouldn't you say? Most LEs, I'd say 95%, end up in homes. This means 95% of rating weight is skewed. Location players have zero say in the ratings.

    Skewed? One person's opinion is as good as another. A game you think is a masterpiece may be an absolute dud in my eyes. Does anyone really need a list to tell them what they like?

    #84 11 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    Skewed? One person's opinion is as good as another. A game you think is a masterpiece may be an absolute dud in my eyes. Does anyone really need a list to tell them what they like?

    So you don't think everyone else on the planet that doesn't own pinball machines should not have their opinion in the top 100?

    #85 11 days ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    So you don't think everyone else on the planet that doesn't own pinball machines should not have their opinion in the top 100?

    Everyone is welcomed to an opinion whether you own games or even play. Maybe someone just hates a game because it ate a quarter back when they were a little kid. Maybe they love a bad game simply it was the first pin they ever played. That's just how opinions work.

    #86 11 days ago

    I never realized that people take this list so seriously. Although my rating does not help, I do wish that Thunderbirds was #1 in times like this.

    #87 11 days ago
    Quoted from pipes:

    I do wish that Thunderbirds was #1 in times like this.

    Thunderbirds number one? If you think people are unhappy with the top 100 now, what would they post if Thunderbirds was #1 ?

    #88 11 days ago
    Quoted from littlecammi:

    Thunderbirds number one? If you think people are unhappy with the top 100 now, what would they post if Thunderbirds was #1 ?

    Exactly. Robin, let's cook the books and make it happen!

    #89 11 days ago
    Quoted from robin:

    It was actually a very deliberate decision, which I though about long and hard when implementing the game grouping.
    I view the LE as the ultimate representation of the game, as it was intended by the designer. The pro version, on the other hand, is mostly a watered down "light" version (and at a much lower price point), meant to skim the market.
    But to be able to realistically compare the modern games from different manufacturers to any of the Stern offerings, it makes the most sense to compare them at that high "LE" price point (i.e. other manufacturers don't offer that 'pro' version).
    I hope that makes sense.
    A funny thing, for me personally, is that I sometimes like Sterns pro's more than I like their Premium/LE's. For example, I think the mini playfield in GoT totally ruins the speed and flow of the game. But that's just my opinion of course

    Why model games (pro, premium, le) are not grouped in custom section?

    #90 11 days ago

    I would just like to vote to not close the top 100 list. Even the fanboy ratings are kind of revealing. Weird that we have pinball manufacturer fan boys, four years ago this would have been beyond my comprehension.

    #91 11 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    Does anyone really need a list to tell them what they like?

    You must be new here.

    #92 11 days ago

    The rating matters very little to me. What I value are the actual comments that are left with the ratings! Obviously, those that are "nostalgic" tend to skew towards the positive and comments like, "...this is a totally boring pinball!!…" while informative in it's own way, tends to skew the opposite direction. What I look for (and have found) are the objective reviews, complete with the Pros and Cons, information about the machine, caveats, etc... I find these the most useful in my search for a machine to play! Ultimately, ratings are tools in our search for other pinball machines with the proviso that these opinions are subjective. Use it as a reference source and a guide for pinball machines but always remember that, ultimately, it's your opinion that counts for you!

    #93 11 days ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Guessing this thread is largely prompted....

    It could be, but R&M is just one in a long line of this happening. I agree with most everything this site has implemented right up until the flagging system. I don't think they took into account the fanboyism that would make make people use it like thumbs up thumbs down.

    #94 7 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    Everyone is welcomed to an opinion whether you own games or even play. Maybe someone just hates a game because it ate a quarter back when they were a little kid. Maybe they love a bad game simply it was the first pin they ever played. That's just how opinions work.

    Did you read my post? I guess I'll state the logic again: if you are a location player, your likely going to be rating a pro. This means your rating will have ZERO influence on the list because the list is only in relation to LEs (home owners). That is a flaw. I'd trust a balance of home and location players a hell of a lot more than just home owners. We know they (myself included) have buyer's bias. If you took all the new games and averaged (which means LE and Prem would still get 2/3 influence), the list becomes a better representation of public opinion. It's straight mathematics.

    #95 7 days ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    ...I guess I'll state the logic again: if you are a location player, your likely going to be rating a pro.....the list is only in relation to LEs (home owners). That is a flaw.....It's straight mathematics.

    Except I buy pros, and the location by me buys LEs.

    #96 7 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Except I buy pros, and the location by me buys LEs.

    So are you saying that this is the norm? And that your ratings on your pros should not influence the list at all?

    #97 5 days ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    So are you saying that this is the norm?

    I'm saying it's as "straight facts" as your post.

    #98 2 days ago

    Just to support my point with a good example, the current top machine has been decided by 15 CE owners.

    Screenshot_20200403_050216 (resized).jpg
    #99 2 days ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    Just to support my point with a good example, the current top machine has been decided by 15 CE owners.[quoted image]

    Yep, IMO Pinside is overthinking this.

    For every game of the same title (regardless of model), every rating should carry the same weight towards the Top 100 ranking.

    #100 2 days ago
    Quoted from dnapac:

    I’ve decided that rating a pin has become useless. It should be eliminated. Too many haters and too many fanboys...or too many companies trying to sway the vote. It should be done.

    This has been the top 100 posts in your thread. On your way to 100 downvotes.

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