Agreed. Gameplay is all that really matters. DW is the only themed game I bought specifically for the them, but I like the game a lot still. Just the ultimate piece of DW memorabilia as well, so it was a win-win.

I wish they would make some more generic game themes personally. I love my ES and Diner, and FH, WW, Banzai Run, F-14, all those were generic themes. I think themes are targeted from movies, comics, etc. because that's what draws the non-pinhead in. All they see is "Cool, Avengers...let's see what this is." Whereas, I think most pinheads see "Cool, Pinball machine...let's see how it plays."

Gameplay is most important, but I still like some games based on theme. Love the Rocky and Bullwinkle theme, and Starship Troopers seems to be fabulously integrated into a pretty fun (if shallow) pin game....

I'd preorder that one; I don't even need to see it. How about it, Stern?

P.S. you forgot Zombies.

I not gonna flame you but to argue ..
I disagree

40% of the game ownership at least for me is the theme, I would never pre-order a theme I didn't like. Your talking about "NIB" specifically. I wouldn't pay 4-10k game play unseen - the theme is what grabs me into a pre-order.

I didnt like TAF theme, arguably good game play. I traded for TSPP a theme myself and my guest associate with a lot more then TAF. TSPP game play while technically complicated isnt as desirable as TAF.

Additionally I would seriously never buy any movie, music theme pin unless I seriously was into the theme. (TZ for example)

To me, what is important about a theme, is how integrated the gameplay is with it. If it is a theme I like, then that just makes the game more fun IMO. For instance, I can't stand basketball but I find NBAFB fun. I love the LOTR books, movies, theme and when I play I remember scenes from the movies and it makes the game more fun. AC/DC is just an average band to me, but the songs and shots chosen for the pin are great and make it fun.

I think it depends on the individual. Theme matters just as much as gameplay to me. I can forgive a LOT of gameplay issues if I connect with the theme. There is a balance though, some games that I think have an amazing theme (TMNT, Popeye) just will never be good for me...

-Wes

After a few Jack and Cokes, the theme and gameplay seem to blend no matter what the title.

Me too! If I'm ordering a NIB, then it damn sure better be a theme I like. I wouldn't be one to bank on game play saving a lame theme. On the other side of the coin, just like the OP, I don't really like fishing, but love FT.

I would respectfully submit my opinion that theme is very important. Most games (unless they live on site or in an arcade) spend 90+% of their lives just sitting there. Like furniture......or artwork on the wall. In the big picture, I "look" at my games much more than I actually get to play them. Walking thru thru the gameroom or sitting and watching TV. I want nice artwork for the visual experience.

My point is this.....you could have a pin with the best game play ever (which of course means something different to everyone, anyway) but if it was Barney the Purple dinosaur or Strawberry Shortcake on the backglass I would never want own one.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I kinda disagree as well. The theme directly influences the rules. If the theme is "lame" or shallow, then the rules will be lame.

Theme is pretty damn important early on, when there is no playfield to look at and international $$$ is on the line.
After that,
The integration of said theme to the actual gameplay (like SC said) is what really matters to a Pinhead.
Like it or not, theme is ultimately what drives/inspires the creative people to do what they do; hopefully we end up with a game for the ages, where all of the key elements in pinball harmoniously meld together.

For my specific buying decisions however...
I actually choose layout over theme first, because I enjoy having variety.

Sometimes though, a theme/game will come along and eclipse my formula and I'll buckle, but it's rare.

Movie themes may matter if you can't stand the movie and the pin has movie clips and movie music over and over again (IE WOZ), could get very irritating

other than that, I tend to agree

your 2 cents is spot on. I enjoy the artistic aspect of my games immensely. Which probably wouldn't be the case with a theme I don't like.

i would like to agree with ya, it should not matter at all, but for some reason its either the iceing on the cake or a wrecking ball.

maybe on the older machine its not quiet so big a deal, but now theres so much theam build in it might be hard to stomach if you hated the theam.

for instance, i have not liked metallica music since about 1985 86 in there about, and i dont like them whining to congress over some kids duping there crappy music they were making afterwards.
so if i score or acomplish where ever task in game play, i dont want to hear some recording of them telling me music piriacy is a crime- buy our new disk...... and i sure dont want to see them homos.

come on, im playing pball for fun here, should not pay thousands or even a quarter to deal with that crap. whats next, justin berber vs the back street boys jerk a thon theam?????

i guess im just getting old, older theams seems more nuetrial and never bothered with me, modern music and movie marketings theams are wearing on me....

so ya it should not matter but it dose i guess

I think the OP was saying that theme shouldn't necessarily be such a driver in people's buying decisions. That there are a lot of generic or odd themes, that are still great games, and can still have amazing artwork (Black Hole, Centaur, Diner, etc.)

Maybe it's just me, but I can't think of any theme that has been just completely and utterly lame/ridiculous off the top of my head in recent years. Most are at least neutral. I mean there are annoying call outs, music, etc. But, I don't think I've ever thought "man I don't want to play this machine because of it's terrible theme."

Are you sure that theme doesn't matter? I don't care if it plays like MM, I am not getting a game with this backglass (with all due respect to Honey Boo Boo).

honey-boo-boo.jpg

Come on. Shes going to mature into a beautiful woman just like her mom.

There are a few games that I will not own strictly because of theme.... STTNG, anything Playboy, and anything like Miss World where there are nude chicks plastered all over the machine.

STTNG I *may* make the exception because the gameplay is really good, but the others, they are just cheesy... I have zero idea why nude chick=pinball.....

i better wait for the wide body version

Maybe you got a thing for Jordy?

Since when are zombies a fad? The folklore has been around for centuries, and popularized through comics, books, and film in the US since the 1940s. Really exploded after Romero's 'Night of the Living Dead' in 1968 and canonized the modern idea of zombies that remains today.

But I do agree about the bacon. So good.

Theme is most important to me. It's really about the total package. Theme, rules, art, sound, and gameplay. I wouldn't buy a game with a crappy theme even with great gameplay.

I think the OP meant, "The theme doesn't matter...to me."

Sad thing is, is that I have zero idea who Jordy is.... I am guessing it is a dude on that show? While I don't hit from the other side of the plate (not that I care what a team's batting order is).... I just honestly have zero idea why/what the history is of a game themed around nude chicks is...

I'd be interested to hear what you guys call really bad themes. I don't know that any theme has thoroughly repulsed me. I'm sure there are some awful ones out there, but would be interested to hear thoughts on what they are. I mean, I HATE the Genesis backglass, but still wouldn't call the theme horrid.

Because boobs.

Completely disagree. The theme is as important as is gameplay. There are games i really enjoy but woudn't want to own because of the theme and vice versa.

Examples are Space Jam or Lost in Space. Both nice pins but theme reminds me of terrible movies. Not a chance in my game room.
The other way round - KISS. Boring like hell, but man what a cool theme .

I have played WOZ for 4 days straight last year at IAPPA. I know the code was not complete. The game was absolutely stunning. I loved the feel and the solid construction. The theme is and was a complete deal breaker for me. I would never own the game because I feel the theme is terrible. However, based off the quality, if the theme was the HOBBIT, it would be the most exciting game for me. Love LOTR theme. So theme is absolutely important. In fact it is a dealbreaker.

I think that it is ridiculous to say that theme doesn't matter. It matters, and it matters a lot. Of course what constitutes a great theme is subjective, so one bad theme to one may be great to another.

Yes, there are some really good playing pins that have themes that I don't care for. The opposite is also true.

But if you turned my AC/DC Premium into a Honey Boo Boo with the exact same layout and rules...

I like all the themes since 2000 except for these:

Wizard of Oz
Wheel of Fortune
Big Buck Hunter Pro
Monopoly
Bill Paxton

This- word for word..... I am glad other local collectors will let me play theirs though.... I am glad we all like different stuff...

+1. But what's wrong with honey boo boo?

OK, I can take BBH as a bad theme. I would never own that. I actually have a soft spot for Monopoly -- so much so it recently made my wishlist though. I'll be banking on a resurgence of interest if I ever buy it

Gameplay is key but themes help out enjoying the entire pin. Pretty hard not to like all the original pins or unlicensed as they are called. Who wants to here movie quotes over and over again when the movies of today suck anyway with boring plots repeated again and again. It would be nice to see some talent and thought put back into orginal themes.

Gameplay definitely matters a lot, but theme is most important for me when it comes to keeping games. If I can into the theme, audio and animations, I feel a lot more immersed in the game. I can play great games with themes I'm not interested in at other people's houses.

I'd be okay with it if it turned into a Metallica or Iron Maiden.

The layout/gameplay is proven so, they could "Shrek-ti-fy" AC/DC's PF all they want until the cows come home, and it will still sell!!!
Some games just have that ability.

theme matters, dumb rant. where's the poll?

Theme can be very important or not important at all.....depends on the pin.

There are certain pins where the theme hurts it.....to me. Don't really care for Red & Ted's Road Show because I really can't stand country music (sorry country music fans).

I'm not a big magic or circus fan. While there are some good (maybe great) magic and circus pins the fact is the theme does detract from the overall experience......for me.

Other times it does not matter to me at all. "Bad movie" pins like the Shadow and JM and many others, does not effect my opinion of the game one way or the other.

Themes I like, (like STTNG, Superhero's, Great Bands & Movies) definitely enhance my overall enjoyment of the pin.

Exactly. Integration is key.

Theme matters like everything else about a pin. I bet any designers reading the rant above are laughing their @$$ off. Theme matters.

For me:

40% Theme/Art
40% Gameplay
20% Build Quality

I agree, put any decent theme on it and it would sell.

Hint: Honey Boo Boo is not a decent theme.

Super heroes, most Sports themes, World Poker, Wheel of fortune, Ripleys, Big Buck Hunter, TV shows like 24 or CSI...

Ok, I admit super heroes or sports like american football or basketball aren't "bad themes" per se. Perfectly reasonable for Stern to use these themes for their pinball machines.
It's just a matter of my personal taste - although "repulsing" would be an exaggeration. I might like the gameplay but would never consider them for my gameroom.

Exchange "Build Quality" for "Price" and I'll agree.

Totally agree! I don't like any of those themes either, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't take it for a test run in someone else's game room. I just would never buy one.

generic themes don't matter so much, white water is a bad example because it isn't an activity/group/movie some people could hate. Personally I'd never buy a metallica because I cannot stand them and would not want anything associated with them in my house. ACDC I'm not a big fan but their music is good enough that i'd accept it and focus on the gameplay. Avatar I'd never buy again as I hate the movie ALOT. B movies aren't as a big a deal though, most b movies people don't hate and may laugh at for the novelty. Something polarising is different to generic/sports/super heroes, if they made a kardashian pinball machine would you still spend $7000 on that and proudly display it?
Especially when it comes to buying something that's costing thousands of dollars when their are so many options theme because important in some cases.

I've bought games based on the soundtrack alone without even having played the game so yes, theme absolutely matters (and no, that isn't a music pun!)

For me, it's about the unison of all of the following, in no particular order:

Theme & Story
Art & Creativity
Music & Sound Design
Gameplay & Rule Calibration

Some games have them all, while some games are lacking in a few areas. For example - Pool Sharks is a game with great artwork, great music, and a cool theme with fun characters, but the gameplay's lack of multiball leaves something to be desired. On the flipside there are games like The Shadow that are fun to play and will always get some attention from me at a show or at a friend's house, but will never be in my collection. Then there are games like Rollergames, where the theme is SO bad, it's actually good (though the killer soundtrack and the fantastic gameplay definitely help it out).

This is one of those things that depends on what type of player/collector you are, but I appreciate these things as works of art, so the creativity of the theme is certainly important.

-BB

Yeah,
But if you squint reaaaalllly hard...

HBBTMNT.jpg

Boom! A new TMNT!!!

Never take o-din too seriously.

If themes didn't matter, game designers wouldn't theme games. All games would be abstract mechanics. And guess what would happen then? No one would buy or play them. Themes do not make for good game mechanics. But a good theme enhances good mechanics to create a full and rich entertainment experience. Take it from a guy who has been a game designer for 15 years. Just one example. Imagine Funhouse but it's not called Funhouse. It's called Pinball Game. There is no pf art, it's just a white field. Instead of Rudy's head, there is a white cube that just sits there. Instead of Rudy taunting you, the game just beeps at you blandly. Instead of demented carnival music, there is no music. Instead of the hotdog, there are generic targets called 1, 2 and 3. Instead of a trap door leading to Rudy's creepy basement, there's a generic hatch. There's no Funhouse Frenzy, there's Get More Points Mode. Sound like fun yet?

Theme won't keep me from enjoying or playing a machine, but it will keep me from buying one. Playboy (any of them) could be the greatest game ever made, but I'd never put one in my home. I don't like AC/DC, so I don't feel like owning that machine. Metallica? No matter how that game plays, I have zero interest in owning it based solely on the theme.

I don't have to enjoy a theme, I just have to not be totally turned off by it. And again, I'll play and enjoy any theme, but I won't put any theme into my home.