(Topic ID: 95206)

The story of my first Pin entitled 'How I got Choggarded"


By NextoPin

5 years ago



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  • 571 posts
  • 139 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by robin
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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#101 5 years ago

Agreed.

Quoted from Whysnow:I suggest NOt locking this thread because then it will slip away into the ether. Better to keep it fresh so more regulars get to see it and hence can worn others when choggard tries this same crap in the future.

Also, please don't anyone buy his "untested" 7 digit displays in a FS thread of his... He likely tested them, discovered none of them work well (or at all), and is trying to sell them as "untested".

#102 5 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

Finally, after over a month and a bunch of BS, I was able to play my game!

Well, how is it? My BK2K gets a lot of play, and is one of everyone's favorite in the house. Love that game!

#103 5 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

If the Mods want to close this thread, please do so. The information is out there now, not sure there is much to add to the conversation. Thanks again for all the support you guys and being so welcoming.

This should remain open. I am amazed that he doesn't have a lock or ban on his account. I guess it's easier to look the other way than to act on this. One thing Klov is better at is the ban hammer strikes the second someone gets screwed. Guess on pinside its 4 strikes and you're out.

#104 5 years ago

Can the moderators change his name to "Chodegard", pleeeease please pretty please? That would make my month.

#105 5 years ago
Quoted from dantebean:

This should remain open. I am amazed that he doesn't have a lock or ban on his account. I guess it's easier to look the other way than to act on this. One thing Klov is better at is the ban hammer strikes the second someone gets screwed. Guess on pinside its 4 strikes and you're out.

More like to avoid CONtroversey, the thread is simply locked by someone who never got screwd over because pinball is basically a hunky-dorey hobby.

#106 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Well, how is it? My BK2K gets a lot of play, and is one of everyone's favorite in the house. Love that game!

It's pretty awesome, still needs some work but it's playable. My 7yr old son and I played for a couple hours, he had a great time, kid has some natural flipper skills, won't be long before he's beating me. We had been playing it before but about 1 out of 5 times the drawbridge wouldn't go down or stop half way up, nice to have it working reliably.

Now it's time to add some mods, but that's for another thread

#107 5 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

Agreed.

Also, please don't anyone buy his "untested" 7 digit displays in a FS thread of his... He likely tested them, discovered none of them work well (or at all), and is trying to sell them as "untested".

He really needs his ass kicked.

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

1 out of 5 times the drawbridge wouldn't go down or stop half way up, nice to have it working reliably.

Nice to make that shot reliably too! Not the easiest thing to do.

#109 5 years ago

imagesCAQZDG6H.jpg

Edit: With the amount of threads that lead back to this guy, I stand behind the picture. It is very disheartening to see new pinheads or any pinhead being taken advantage of. This community has been formed to help spread the enjoyment of this hobby. I still cannot comprehend the ability of some to take unjust advantage of others. Just sad.

#110 5 years ago

I have a thought. What about having Robin put a sticky thread at the top of the forum on things that newbies should do before buying their first pin?

Besides the obvious suggestions about seeing the pin in person, advice could be given on how to search the forum or ask about the reputation of sellers, how to look for unusual wear, how to determine if a pin is HUO or routed, etc. I know I could have used much of the sage advice you all post regularly on how to evaluate a pin. Fortunately, my experiences on pin purchases so far were all with very classy and honest sellers.

#111 5 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

I have a thought. What about having Robin put a sticky thread at the top of the forum on things that newbies should do before buying their first pin?
Besides the obvious suggestions about seeing the pin in person, advice could be given on how to search the forum or ask about the reputation of sellers, how to look for unusual wear, how to determine if a pin is HUO or routed, etc. I know I could have used much of the sage advice you all post regularly on how to evaluate a pin. Fortunately, my experiences on pin purchases so far were all with very classy and honest sellers.

Good suggestion, but I think that maybe better would be a seller ratings subforum.

#112 5 years ago

As a buyer, make it as hard as possible for sellers to lie. Choggard aside, there are a TON of sellers who aren't "liars" on Pinside, but they see it as good salesmanship to "sell" their game as well as possible. If there is ever is a next time, there are some standard questions I like to ask. These are specific questions that leave no (or very little) room for interpretation, asking how nice something is is a bad question:

-Does the game have any moister damage such as rust, cab swelling, or anything else?
-Does the game have any play field planking?
-Is there any cab checking?
-Is the game a re-import?
-Are there any broken or incorrect plastics?
-Do all the features work?
-Are there any hacks on the boards? Are there any burnt connectors on the boards?
-Are the boards all original?
-Is there any insert lifting or sinking on any insert? (are the inserts level?)
-Is there any cracking or chipping around any of the inserts?

Also, some game/era specific questions:

-For WH20 for example - Is there any lost mine wear? Are the boulders cracked?
-For System 11's - is there myalr? Is the mylar lifting? Is it bubbling on any inserts?

These are just a few that come to mind, there are and should be more depding on the game, era, seller, situation etc. Again, this won't help a seller lying to you, but it will help you from being "sold" a piece of shit for top dollar. Basically, ask questions that leave no room for interpretation.

Ask a ton of questions, and if the seller seems hesitant or like your being a pain in the ass, HUGE red flag.

#113 5 years ago

Why doesn't Robin do something a little like Ebay does with leaving feedback.

If seller and buyer are both pinsiders, they could just leave feedback, etc. That way reputation is a little bit on the line.

#114 5 years ago
Quoted from videorob:

A general ban would mean he can just log in with a new account
An IP ban might not work either because (unless I'm mistaken) and it wouldn't be the first time....could he create a new account using a 3g or 4g mobile device.

This

Quoted from NextoPin:

This was my first big Paypal purchase, Choggard recommended that I send the money as a 'gift' to avoid the fee's. When I called Paypal to dispute they said there was nothing they could do for me because 'gift' purchases are not covered under the buyers protection program.

And this is yet another reason (of many) I refuse to use paypal. Yes snail mail & personal checks take a bit to cash, but they're a lot safer too. The peace of mind that I can go to my bank and talk to someone in person if needed far exceeds the "want it now" desire I may have for something.

#115 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

-Does the game have any moister damage such as rust, cab swelling, or anything else?
-Does the game have any play field planking?
-Is there any cab checking?
-Is the game a re-import?
-Are there any broken or incorrect plastics?
-Do all the features work?
-Are there any hacks on the boards? Are there any burnt connectors on the boards?
-Are the boards all original?
-Is there any insert lifting or sinking on any insert? (are the inserts level?)
-Is there any cracking or chipping around any of the inserts?

Thanks, great list to have all in one spot. Wish I had this when I bought my first game....

#116 5 years ago
Quoted from Linolium:

This

And this is yet another reason (of many) I refuse to use paypal. Yes snail mail & personal checks take a bit to cash, but they're a lot safer too. The peace of mind that I can go to my bank and talk to someone in person if needed far exceeds the "want it now" desire I may have for something.

If he wants to weasel back to the website/community he was booted from that just shows how desperate the guy is. He needs to be booted to show we do not tolerate people like this in our community. Allowing him to post is a slap in the face.

#117 5 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

This was my first big Paypal purchase, Choggard recommended that I send the money as a 'gift' to avoid the fee's. When I called Paypal to dispute they said there was nothing they could do for me because 'gift' purchases are not covered under the buyers protection program.

If you paid Paypal with a Credit Card, you would need to file the dispute with the credit card company, not Paypal.

The credit card company does not care if it was a "gift" or not.

Scammers count on the fact that most people don't know this.

#118 5 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

There should be a separate subforum for people to form a "I've been Choggarded" support group

Look for it to become a new reality TV show that follows Honey Boo Boo this fall on TLC

#119 5 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

Good suggestion, but I think that maybe better would be a seller ratings subforum.

Unfortunately, we are never going to be able to stop all the bad sellers as they can just change accounts or even not use Pinside. My opinion is that a well-educated consumer is the best consumer. Sage advice, like that posted in this thread, should be there for a newbie regardless of whether the purchase is from a fellow Pinsider. As there are so many that are new to this hobby, I think a sticky thread on buying your first pin would be a welcoming gesture to new people that come to this site.

#120 5 years ago

We should produce a nice thread for new buyers and ask to have it sticky. I have the last of my daughter's baseball games all this week so if I find time I will post a draft. Honestly the post would say, "Ask the community questions!"

#121 5 years ago
Quoted from dantebean:

This should remain open. I am amazed that he doesn't have a lock or ban on his account. I guess it's easier to look the other way than to act on this. One thing Klov is better at is the ban hammer strikes the second someone gets screwed. Guess on pinside its 4 strikes and you're out.

Quoted from blondetall:

Please see my last post here:https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/should-choggard-be-perma-banned
The mods did ban him, and Robin overturned it. Maybe Robin needs to re-visit this issue since it seems to be an ongoing thing. Feel free to PM him or start a thread in the Moderator Feedback section which is a private conversation only open to yourself and the mods/Robin.

As previously stated, the mods already banned him from the site once. Since we literally have no way to ban people now unless obvious spammers, and can only eject people from threads for periods of time, our hands are a bit tied as well. If you've got ideas/opinions on this you'd like to share with Robin/mods, I've already given the info above on what to do that is probably more productive than just continually posting on threads.

#122 5 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

There should be term for a newbie getting scammed, I propose "Choggard" as in don't get choggard on that deal.

Also could be used as an adverb...." Despite the claims of the seller that the game was in good condition, I got screwed chogardless".

#123 5 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

Since we literally have no way to ban people now unless obvious spammers, and can only eject people from threads for periods of time, our hands are a bit tied as well.

So you are telling me I can tell Family Arcade to piss off as much as I want?? Sweeeeeeet...

#124 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The credit card company does not care if it was a "gift" or not.

However, you stand a good change at losing your PayPal account forever by doing a chargeback. Their rules are if not-sent as a gift, and you tried to work it out through their system, and they couldn't reclaim any funds from the seller, then you are allowed to do a chargeback and they typically will not shut down your account. However repeatedly or when you didn't go through their arbitration (which you can't when sent as a gift), then, while you can get it back you risk losing the account entirely.

24
#125 5 years ago
Quoted from Pac-Fan:

However, you stand a good change at losing your PayPal account forever by doing a chargeback. Their rules are if not-sent as a gift, and you tried to work it out through their system, and they couldn't reclaim any funds from the seller, then you are allowed to do a chargeback and they typically will not shut down your account. However repeatedly or when you didn't go through their arbitration (which you can't when sent as a gift), then, while you can get it back you risk losing the account entirely.

No big deal. I'd rather have my $3000 back than a Paypal account.

I have not had an account in 4 years, and since then my penis has grown about an inch, and my gray hairs are growning back black.

Win/win/win

16
#126 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I have not had an account in 4 years, and since then my penis has grown about an inch

"Hello PayPal, yes this is MinusWorlds...I'd like to close my account"

#127 5 years ago

If you use a CC they still charge the 2.9% fee so there would be no point in classifying it as a "gift". But I see your point, to the CC company a charge is a charge.

FWIW, I just sold a pin to a new Pinsider long distance and explained the "gift" option and reasoning behind using it. I could tell he wasn't completely comfortable so I offered to split the fee with him.

#128 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

No big deal. I'd rather have my $3000 back than a Paypal account.
I have not had an account in 4 years, and since then my penis has grown about an inch, and my gray hairs are growning back black.
Win/win/win

Agreed. Loss of Paypal account is not a big deal.

#129 5 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Would this help qualify me, at least with a Bally pin?

IMAG2654-767.jpg 131 KB

I don't believe you. I need to see it with a piece of paper with today's date on it.

-1
#130 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

No big deal. I'd rather have my $3000 back than a Paypal account.
I have not had an account in 4 years, and since then my penis has grown about an inch, and my gray hairs are growning back black.
Win/win/win

Paypal sucks, I don't have an account but I was able to donate to Pinside as a guest.
When I tried to do the same thing again I was told I couldn't and that I needed to create an account.
That is why my heart went black.
I had to cancel a CC and a checking account to get rid of them once, they will never get access to any of my accounts again.

Seems like getting burned is a rite of passage for a newb, my first online purchase was a Party Zone and when it arrived it was a moldy Part Me Zone.
Creative photography and a yellow spray bomb covered a multitude of sins.
I checked out the seller on RGP before I pulled the trigger and the reviews were great.

#131 5 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

I'd love to know who bought this because I have a feeling I have their F-14 CPU board and they have my BK2K board. I suspect this is why the RANSOM lights were plugged in wrong.

I'm sorry to hear you got screwed on your game, and I'm glad you got it going. Truthfully, a lesson that costs you $100 in the end is a pretty cheap lesson. I think just about everyone knows of this seller's reputation at this point. Shame there's no good way to protect newbies, short of hoping they do as much up front research as possible!

The whole CPU board thing is not a big issue - many times, a game will have other boards swapped in, to fix a problem. This was regularly done when these games were still on route many, many years ago. The boards are compatible in many cases, and as long as the board is working, there are no issues.

#132 5 years ago

It is rare to find a game with a matching boardset, I have only had two since I have been in the hobby.
Ops just swapped them out, repaired the bad one and then used it in the next game.

#133 5 years ago
Quoted from Leeb18509:

If you use a CC they still charge the 2.9% fee so there would be no point in classifying it as a "gift". But I see your point, to the CC company a charge is a charge.
FWIW, I just sold a pin to a new Pinsider long distance and explained the "gift" option and reasoning behind using it. I could tell he wasn't completely comfortable so I offered to split the fee with him.

I personally do not get the whole idea of using gift period. Using gift, the buyer pays the fee, using the goods method the seller pays the fees - so just up the price to cover the fee - the buyer pays the fee regardless. I would assume that most people that insist on PayPal build the fee into the original price (or just eat it) in the first place.

Splitting the fee was nice of you to offer.

#134 5 years ago
Quoted from LongJohns:

I personally do not get the whole idea of using gift period. Using gift, the buyer pays the fee, using the goods method the seller pays the fees - so just up the price to cover the fee - the buyer pays the fee regardless. I would assume that most people that insist on PayPal build the fee into the original price (or just eat it) in the first place.
Splitting the fee was nice of you to offer.

If you use the "gift" option and fund from your bank account, there are no fees for either the buyer or the seller. Of course, you have no protection either.

#135 5 years ago
Quoted from LongJohns:

I personally do not get the whole idea of using gift period. Using gift, the buyer pays the fee, using the goods method the seller pays the fees - so just up the price to cover the fee - the buyer pays the fee regardless. I would assume that most people that insist on PayPal build the fee into the original price (or just eat it) in the first place.
Splitting the fee was nice of you to offer.

Nice avatar!

#136 5 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

If you use the "gift" option and fund from your bank account, there are no fees for either the buyer or the seller. Of course, you have no protection either.

That what I explained to the buyer in the beginning. Turned out a CC was his only option for payment, so I split the fee with him.

"Dad, Bob broke your beer..."

#137 5 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

If you use the "gift" option and fund from your bank account, there are no fees for either the buyer or the seller. Of course, you have no protection either.

Ok, thanks for that explanation - no way in H E "double hockey sticks" is PayPal going to get my banking info - they have my credit card and that is enough.

Ditto...

#138 5 years ago

I opened a bank account just for Paypal. I only keep a small amount in the account just to keep it open at the bank. A couple of years ago my account got hacked and they took all my money. It was like $36 dollars but I did get it back a couple of months later.

#139 5 years ago
Quoted from BowlingJim:

I opened a bank account just for Paypal. I only keep a small amount in the account just to keep it open at the bank. A couple of years ago my account got hacked and they took all my money. It was like $36 dollars but I did get it back a couple of months later.

+1000000
I did the same thing
I opened a separate individual checking account and linked it to paypal, no way, would I give paypal access to my joint checking or savings account, not EVER!

#140 5 years ago
Quoted from Pac-Fan:

However, you stand a good change at losing your PayPal account forever by doing a chargeback. Their rules are if not-sent as a gift, and you tried to work it out through their system, and they couldn't reclaim any funds from the seller, then you are allowed to do a chargeback and they typically will not shut down your account. However repeatedly or when you didn't go through their arbitration (which you can't when sent as a gift), then, while you can get it back you risk losing the account entirely.

Email addresses (and therefor paypal accounts) are free and easy to set up.

#141 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

As a buyer, make it as hard as possible for sellers to lie. Choggard aside, there are a TON of sellers who aren't "liars" on Pinside, but they see it as good salesmanship to "sell" their game as well as possible. If there is ever is a next time, there are some standard questions I like to ask. These are specific questions that leave no (or very little) room for interpretation, asking how nice something is is a bad question:
-Does the game have any moister damage such as rust, cab swelling, or anything else?
-Does the game have any play field planking?
-Is there any cab checking?
-Is the game a re-import?
-Are there any broken or incorrect plastics?
-Do all the features work?
-Are there any hacks on the boards? Are there any burnt connectors on the boards?
-Are the boards all original?
-Is there any insert lifting or sinking on any insert? (are the inserts level?)
-Is there any cracking or chipping around any of the inserts?
Also, some game/era specific questions:
-For WH20 for example - Is there any lost mine wear? Are the boulders cracked?
-For System 11's - is there myalr? Is the mylar lifting? Is it bubbling on any inserts?
These are just a few that come to mind, there are and should be more depding on the game, era, seller, situation etc. Again, this won't help a seller lying to you, but it will help you from being "sold" a piece of shit for top dollar. Basically, ask questions that leave no room for interpretation.
Ask a ton of questions, and if the seller seems hesitant or like your being a pain in the ass, HUGE red flag.

Great checklist to ask, however I think the problem lies in these questions not being able to be answered because the seller lacks the knowledge (which, it seems, would have been the case here).

Such a bad story. Glad your game is mostly working.

#142 5 years ago

If you are buying long distance from a seller that isn't able to answer any of those questions, I would walk away from the transaction.

Quoted from Robotoes:

Great checklist to ask, however I think the problem lies in these questions not being able to be answered because the seller lacks the knowledge (which, it seems, would have been the case here).

Such a bad story. Glad your game is mostly working.

#143 5 years ago

I always do some research on those that I want to deal with. Unless I"m mistaken, a bit of research here on Pinside would have provided some pretty visible background history on this guy. Hate to see anybody get swindled like this, but as they say....buyer beware.

-4
#144 5 years ago

I've been trying to ignore this post but I just can't. Let's take a look at my fifthy unshopped machine as he claims with GI problems and damage under trim/diamond plating. I replaced every post, rubber, bad screw, display, new balls, etc on this machine. Added LEDS to all inserts and top GI except flashers. This was a very clean machine all around I spent hours on this machine cleaning it. I was planning on keeping it and adding it to my collection. I will find more pictures later, but I know I deleted a lot of them off my phone months ago. I might even have a few before I put the diamond plating and trim on so we can see the so called damage he's talking about.. You all can be the judge.. I respect everyone's point of view on here except Collin Foust, Captain Fantastic, and Dantebean.

The pictures are in no particular order.. Just some that I could find. And this is why shipping machines is difficult.

image-252.jpg
image-281.jpg
image-734.jpg
image-53.jpg
image-706.jpg
image-417.jpg

#145 5 years ago

IMG_3976.jpg

Here's a picture I found before I put the trim on with no damage as he's claiming.

#146 5 years ago

IMG_3981.jpg

Here's a picture with out the diamond plating edit: sides where mirror blades usually go.. Sorry I don't see the damage in this picture either..

#147 5 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

Here's a picture with out the diamond plating.. Sorry I don't see the damage in this picture either..

IMG_3981.jpg 277 KB

You Diamondplated the playfield?

Diamondplate is a trademark of Williams for coating playfields.

#148 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You Diamondplated the playfield?
Diamondplate is a trademark of Williams for coating playfields.

No I bought this mod from a fellow pinsider to put on the sides of my machine because I thought it looked great rather than mirror blades.

#149 5 years ago

IMG_4033.JPG

I found this picture of my kids playing the game..

#150 5 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

No I bought this mod from a fellow pinsider to put on the sides of my machine because I thought it looked great rather than mirror blades.

Is it in the pictures?

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