(Topic ID: 95206)

The story of my first Pin entitled 'How I got Choggarded"


By NextoPin

5 years ago



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37
#1 5 years ago

I debated for a long time about posting this. I'm new to Pinside and I don't want to cause any issues, but eventually, after hearing some other stories, decided to post the story of purchasing my first pinball machine. I have all the pictures and documentation to back up everything I say here but the thread is already huge, if you want more info, just ask.

April 30th I found a pinside ad for a Black Knight 2000 while searching google. I think at the time I was already a Pinside member, but relatively new. Cory's Pinside ad (Now deleted) Said the machine had some minor cosmetic issues but was fully working and playing and had been recently shopped. Choggard was asking $3000 for this machine on his ad. After a few days of going back and forth we settled on $2500. Before paying, I reiterated multiple times that this machine needed to be %100 working and that I did not want a project. I stated on multiple conversations with him that I was paying a higher price with him because I needed the machine working. I verified with him that there was no known issues with the machine other than some bubbles in the mylar, a couple broken plastics and the magna-save was a little worn. All cosmetic issues, nothing that would need to be fixed.

Cory was very nice to talk to and was more than happy to explain things to someone new to owning a pinball. He even told me how this particular machine had a diamond plate mod and chrome trim that cost him over $100. He arranged everything with the shipping and packaged the pinball nicely. He even added some corner protection at my request.

Here's the Black Knight 2000 I received:

The RANSOM lights were not working correct, they just flashed with the playfield lights
The playfield lamp matrix had a short across 4 columns
The GI connector on the interconnect was removed and had all of the GI soldered together, directly to the board
The drawbridge motor was getting a motor error about every 5-10 games (Now completly gone and had to replace the motor for $49 +sh)
There was a smashed flasher socket with a broken bulb still stuck in it. One of the wires for this socket was disconnected and dangling under the upper playfield.
Some of the GI lights in the backbox insert had been disconnected, left bare and bypassed
Game had an F-14 Tomcat board in it. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-f-14-tomcat-by-williams-1650
Playfield was filthy, not waxed, machine was not shopped.
All but 5 of the flasher bulbs were burnt out.
The fancy 'Diamond Plate Mod' was stickers that were hiding damage to the sidewalls
The chrome trim was hiding damage to the edge of the backbox where it meets the playfield when folded down.
A mason jar's worth of spare parts were found in the bottom of this 'shopped' pinball machine

When I called Choggard to explain the issues, Choggard blamed it all on the shipper and stated that the machine worked fine when it left his house.

After some research and speaking with some local Pinsider's I was able to determine that all the 'Damage' except for possibly some of the flasher bulbs were definitively pre-existing. When I called and explained this the Choggard he started to do the right thing and told me to have it serviced and he would pay the bill. I was pretty upset because I specifically bought his machine because I did not want to have to work on it, I wanted to play it, that's why I payed his inflated price, but something is better than nothing and at least he was trying to make it right.

I'm new to the "pinball scene' and don't know any repair techs, I found one online, but he charged $100 just to come out ($50/hr and the trip was an hour each way), I thought that this could end up real pricy, especially if he had to return with parts or something, so I asked around some more and found a local tech that would do the work for the same price ($50/hr) without charging for the travel time. It took him a couple evenings but he got most of the issues fixed, I payed him and sent the invoice to Choggard.

He refused to pay. He said he needed to talk to me about it.

We get on the phone and he tells me that $350 is too much that his tech is way cheaper and I should have had the work done for less and that he's not paying that much.

I've already Paid premium from him to get a good working machine that was undeniably broken before it shipped and then had to shell out another $350 out of my pocket because I'm and Idiot and trusted him. Then he steals $100 more from me by only paying me back $250 of the service bill that he said he would pay for, after I went out of my way to try and save this jackhole some money.

This guy is a scammer, a liar, a cheat and a dirtbag pin flipper. Be warned. I didn't find out until after the sale that he had this reputation, here are some examples.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/choggards-defective-2300-blackoutrepaired-by-ray-brackins
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/should-choggard-be-perma-banned
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ban-choggard-and-hugsc
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/choggard-has-his-msf-on-ebay-buyers-beware.

Hopefully we both end up at the same pinball show someday...

My replacement drawbridge motor should be here today, I'm super excited to play my Black Knight 2000 for the first time since all the issues have been worked out.

#2 5 years ago

Sorry that happened.

Quoted from NextoPin:

I debated for a long time about posting this. I'm new to Pinside and I don't want to cause any issues, but eventually, after hearing some other stories, decided to post the story of purchasing my first pinball machine. I have all the pictures and documentation to back up everything I say here but the thread is already huge, if you want more info, just ask.

April 30th I found a pinside ad for a Black Knight 2000 while searching google. I think at the time I was already a Pinside member, but relatively new. Cory's Pinside ad (Now deleted) Said the machine had some minor cosmetic issues but was fully working and playing and had been recently shopped. Choggard was asking $3000 for this machine on his ad. After a few days of going back and forth we settled on $2500. Before paying, I reiterated multiple times that this machine needed to be %100 working and that I did not want a project. I stated on multiple conversations with him that I was paying a higher price with him because I needed the machine working. I verified with him that there was no known issues with the machine other than some bubbles in the mylar, a couple broken plastics and the magna-save was a little worn. All cosmetic issues, nothing that would need to be fixed.

Cory was very nice to talk to and was more than happy to explain things to someone new to owning a pinball. He even told me how this particular machine had a diamond plate mod and chrome trim that cost him over $100. He arranged everything with the shipping and packaged the pinball nicely. He even added some corner protection at my request.

Here's the Black Knight 2000 I received:

The RANSOM lights were not working correct, they just flashed with the playfield lights
The playfield lamp matrix had a short across 4 columns
The GI connector on the interconnect was removed and had all of the GI soldered together, directly to the board
The drawbridge motor was getting a motor error about every 5-10 games (Now completly gone and had to replace the motor for $49 +sh)
There was a smashed flasher socket with a broken bulb still stuck in it. One of the wires for this socket was disconnected and dangling under the upper playfield.
Some of the GI lights in the backbox insert had been disconnected, left bare and bypassed
Game had an F-14 Tomcat board in it. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-f-14-tomcat-by-williams-1650
Playfield was filthy, not waxed, machine was not shopped.
All but 5 of the flasher bulbs were burnt out.
The fancy 'Diamond Plate Mod' was stickers that were hiding damage to the sidewalls
The chrome trim was hiding damage to the edge of the backbox where it meets the playfield when folded down.
A mason jar's worth of spare parts were found in the bottom of this 'shopped' pinball machine

When I called Choggard to explain the issues, Choggard blamed it all on the shipper and stated that the machine worked fine when it left his house.

After some research and speaking with some local Pinsider's I was able to determine that all the 'Damage' except for possibly some of the flasher bulbs were definitively pre-existing. When I called and explained this the Choggard he started to do the right thing and told me to have it serviced and he would pay the bill. I was pretty upset because I specifically bought his machine because I did not want to have to work on it, I wanted to play it, that's why I payed his inflated price, but something is better than nothing and at least he was trying to make it right.

I'm new to the "pinball scene' and don't know any repair techs, I found one online, but he charged $100 just to come out ($50/hr and the trip was an hour each way), I thought that this could end up real pricy, especially if he had to return with parts or something, so I asked around some more and found a local tech that would do the work for the same price ($50/hr) without charging for the travel time. It took him a couple evenings but he got most of the issues fixed, I payed him and sent the invoice to Choggard.

He refused to pay. He said he needed to talk to me about it.

We get on the phone and he tells me that $350 is too much that his tech is way cheaper and I should have had the work done for less and that he's not paying that much.

I've already Paid premium from him to get a good working machine that was undeniably broken before it shipped and then had to shell out another $350 out of my pocket because I'm and Idiot and trusted him. Then he steals $100 more from me by only paying me back $250 of the service bill that he said he would pay for, after I went out of my way to try and save this jackhole some money.

This guy is a scammer, a liar, a cheat and a dirtbag pin flipper. Be warned. I didn't find out until after the sale that he had this reputation, here are some examples.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/choggards-defective-2300-blackoutrepaired-by-ray-brackins
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/should-choggard-be-perma-banned
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ban-choggard-and-hugsc
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/choggard-has-his-msf-on-ebay-buyers-beware.

Hopefully we both end up at the same pinball show someday...

My replacement drawbridge motor should be here today, I'm super excited to play my Black Knight 2000 for the first time since all the issues have been worked out.

#3 5 years ago

I feel sorry for you and what you went through.

THE ABSOLUTE WORST WAY TO BUY ANY OLD PINBALL MACHINE IS BY HAVING IT SHIPPED TO YOU.

Since shipping is $$$$ the seller is counting on you not sending it back.

It always looks worse in person.

If it was a bargain in any way, some local collector would have grabbed it in a second.....especially from states with tons of collectors, MI, OH and IL.

13
#4 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Sorry that happened

It shouldn't have happened at all. The OP clearly states that he found this machine through a search on google that took him to pinside. If Hugc would have been banned like he should this ad would not have been on pinside.

When dantebean sees this he is gonna lose his freakin mind.

#5 5 years ago

Sorry to hear, Hope you get it going and are able to enjoy it from this point onward. Sad thing the term Shopped when used on ebay/craigslist seems to mean more often than not...... stole it dirt cheap, put as little effort/money into it as possible to get it just barely working.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I feel sorry for you and what you went through.
THE ABSOLUTE WORST WAY TO BUY ANY OLD PINBALL MACHINE IS BY HAVING IT SHIPPED TO YOU.
Since shipping is $$$$ the seller is counting on you not sending it back.
It always looks worse in person.
If it was a bargain in any way, some local collector would have grabbed it in a second.....especially from states with tons of collectors, MI, OH and IL.

I wasn't looking for a bargain or a project, I just wanted a fully working BK2K and was willing to pay extra. He was more than happy to take the extra money in exchange for lying about it's condition.

The shipping is the only part of the entire transaction that I didn't have an issue with. STI was great, the dispatch worked with me on a delivery date because I was going to be out of town for a few days, machine showed up with no damage, only issue was they would only deliver to ground level and since my house is 3 steps up from my garage they would only deliver to the garage, but that's true for most shippers unless you pay extra or get a driver in a good mood.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

I wasn't looking for a bargain or a project, I just wanted a fully working BK2K and was willing to pay extra. He was more than happy to take the extra money in exchange for lying about it's condition.

Yep, I've heard that 1000 times.

If it was even a "fair" deal, someone local would pick pick it up in those mega collector States.

#8 5 years ago

I assume you have the conversations in email documented? If so, sue him.

Marc

19
#9 5 years ago

It appears to be blatant lying. Why has this guy not been banned from pinside yet if he has documented behavior of ripping people off?

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

It appears to be blatant lying. Why has this guy not been banned from pinside yet if he has documented behavior of ripping people off?

So agree.

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yep, I've heard that 1000 times.
If it was even a "fair" deal, someone local would pick pick it up in those mega collector States.

I won't make that mistake again, if I can't touch it before I pay, I ain't buying unless it's someone I know personally.

17
#12 5 years ago

Please see my last post here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/should-choggard-be-perma-banned

The mods did ban him, and Robin overturned it. Maybe Robin needs to re-visit this issue since it seems to be an ongoing thing. Feel free to PM him or start a thread in the Moderator Feedback section which is a private conversation only open to yourself and the mods/Robin.

18
#13 5 years ago

Choggard at it again, or should I say caught again...

I agree that it is time for an IP ban and sticky post with a BAD SELLER list (including real names and handles) to help protect pthers from getting scammed.

Expecting to gat another lame response from Hugsc and denial.

#14 5 years ago

Ouch. I'm sorry your purchase seemed to go so badly. Well, I guess one positive thing is you found a repair man in upstate NY for "only" $50 an hour. The only person I know of near Albany is $90 an hour and that includes an hour drive to my house as well. If this person does good work, keep in touch, I know for myself, every 2-3 years something happens to one of my machine and I have to hire out.

I hope the machine stays working for you for quite some time, I know I would love to eventually get a BK2K for my collection as well. Greatest music in a pinball machine (imo)!

#15 5 years ago

With so many people that are new to the hobby joining pinside , they become an easy target for a guy like him . I read through some old posts about him and wow , how is he still here ?

-3
#17 5 years ago

If OP is stating story accurately, etc., this is horrible. However, I don't think banning him is the answer. It's better to know what he's up to.

Can anyone on here testify that they've boughten a good pin from Chogs? As described?

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

If OP is stating story accurately, etc., this is horrible. However, I don't think banning him is the answer. It's better to know what he's up to.
Can anyone on here testify that they've boughten a good pin from Chogs? As described?

Boughten?

#19 5 years ago

That's too bad. I was hoping Cory had learned his lesson from his previous misadventures, but I guess he didn't.

#20 5 years ago

Uggh...I ripped on choggard last year when a few issues like this popped up...then I defended him earlier this year in the f14 thread( i said it had seemed like he learned his lesson)....now this, the guy does not deserve to be on this site anymore...my apologies to dantebean who was right the whole time.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

If OP is stating story accurately, etc., this is horrible. However, I don't think banning him is the answer. It's better to know what he's up to.
Can anyone on here testify that they've boughten a good pin from Chogs? As described?

Hugsc

#23 5 years ago

lol.

Sorry. English wasn't my major evidently.

How's "purchased"?

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Can anyone on here testify that they've boughten a good pin from Chogs? As described?

Would it matter if someone had?

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

lol.
Sorry. English wasn't my major evidently.
How's "purchased"?

Better But I don't want to take away from the story. This is, in all seriousness, a huge deal.

Feel awful for the buyer. If I was closer I'd offer to help out with my services.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

I'm super excited to play my Black Knight 2000 for the first time since all the issues have been worked out.

And you should be! BK2K is a fast, adrenaline pumping game with great music and light show. Enjoy!

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

decided to post the story of purchasing my first pinball machine.

So sorry to hear how this went. Hope it does not turn you off to pinball and pinside. Mostly great people here.

I did buy a pin from Cory last year and thought he was fine to deal with. In my opinion, the pin I got was described fairly, and Cory worked with me holding the pin for me pick up. I might be lucky since I picked it up in person, but I had no problem. So sorry to hear that someone else had such a terrible experience.

-1
#29 5 years ago

Keep him on the site so we can keep tabs on him

#30 5 years ago

Yikes. Sorry you got taken. I don't have games shipped for this very reason. I like to pay cash and pickup in person so i know what I am getting into.

I don't know if banning him is the correct way to go, then he can just take people from the shadows....

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

I might be lucky since I picked it up in person, but I had no problem.

It's much harder to get taken when you examine a game in person.

#32 5 years ago

Nothing wrong with 'boughten', though it's a bit unusual northern dialect.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/boughten

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/boughten

Sorry about the transaction, and thanks for the heads up.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I don't have games shipped for this very reason. I like to pay cash and pickup in person so i know what I am getting into.

I have had very few games shipped, but it is always good to get detailed photos and check out the seller before you pay to have something shipped from one side of the country to the other. My BK2K buying experience is one that I would be kicking myself if I hadn't-

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-or-ft-black-knight-2000

11
#34 5 years ago

What a dick

#35 5 years ago

This is disappointing. Just like Cosmo, I to defended Choggard on his F-14 for sale thread thinking that he was turning over a new leaf. But after reading over and over again how he is not truthful in his ways of doing business leaving people with remorse and bad experience's, I guess some people live without having a shame bone in their body.

Choggard is digging his own grave. For a good pinball machine, condition is king. For a quality person to deal with, reputation is. My condolences to the OP for the bad experience and hoping that the enjoyment of your pin can help forget your misfortunes.

#36 5 years ago

Everybody knows about my experience with HUGSC/Choggard with the Blackout machine. Guy wasn't going to do DICK for me until the members of this page backed me up and laid into him. THEN and only then did the Weasel agree to give me some of my money back. I heard from several others back then of having similar experiences when dealing with him. If people weren't wary before or needed more evidence now they have it. STAY AWAY!!! Sorry for ya OP...Been there done that.

#37 5 years ago

How did you pay for the game? Paypal? If so start a dispute and get at least a little back. Choggard has a rep around this site... Unfortunately you did not find this information soon enough...

#38 5 years ago

This is why I made a thread asking for a Choggard ban.

Now, though, I wonder if it's better to have a moderator or admin change his user title to "Scammer. Avoid dealing with." At least that way, we'd have some knowledge of what he's up to (until he makes another duplicate profile.)

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

It shouldn't have happened at all. The OP clearly states that he found this machine through a search on google that took him to pinside. If Hugc would have been banned like he should this ad would not have been on pinside.
When dantebean sees this he is gonna lose his freakin mind.

Totally agree. I can take the guys on here bashing fs threads and talking smack about mods/jjp/stern but Chogs needs to go. Let him sell on CL cause it's one...two...30 strikes you're out at the silver ball game

#40 5 years ago

Also, I really feel for the OP here, and applaud him for coming forward with his story. We've all been there, and it sucks.

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

That's too bad. I was hoping Cory had learned his lesson from his previous misadventures, but I guess he didn't.

I thought so to, until the OP here PM'd me. Last week, I actually went to the trouble to track down several tech posts on KLOV to help Choggard with his tech thread. I didn't even get a "thank you," probably because he has me blocked.

#42 5 years ago

What are you on about? Hugsc was an alias Choggard used to pump his sale threads.

#43 5 years ago

Expect more stories like this as the guys that do rebuilds on these games quit doing them.
To make these games solid and to rebuild them properly takes time and money and that is not possible when every area has the snaprag junk flippers buying up base games.
Of course they can pay more than I can since they don't plan on putting any parts or time into the games.
I feel sorry for the guys that got took and I don't want to work on these games after the fact, some I have looked at are borderline parts games and I no longer want to get involved in their nightmares.
If you "Just get it running" then you are married to the POS and you get the "ever since you" line.
Every auto mechanic has an amusing "ever since you" story, same line different game.

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

Every auto mechanic has an amusing "ever since you" story,

Fricken AC stopped working.

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Fricken AC stopped working.

My favorite:
"Ever since you installed a new battery and alternator my rear passenger electric window won't work".

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

"Ever since you installed a new battery and alternator my rear passenger electric window won't work".

Auto techs sometimes get a bad rap, but between clueless consumers, greedy employers, and trying to get the right parts, the job can become very taxing. Those are a few of the reasons I don't do it anymore. At one time it was "fun", but that went away a long time ago. Fixing pinball machines is much more rewarding. No oil, no filter, no wheels, no tires, no brakes, no customers!

#47 5 years ago

Man that blows... And this goes back a long time. Nextopin: if ya' ever need some help or advise, send me a pm. While I don't have the biggest collection due to space, I've been in the hobby over 17+ years and can steer you around some guys not worth your time. There's other good dudes in NY as well. Chin up.... And don't let one jerk ruin the hobby for you!~SpOoKy

-74
#48 5 years ago

This is a case of buyer remorse. I've sold plenty of machines on here and had no problems at all. The BK2000 was a very nice machine that was completely shopped and working. I replaced all lights with LEDs, all posts, rubbers, display, clean and wax, etc. Apparently the Ransom lights weren't working right because they were plugged in wrong and missed two pins for connection. Simple fix unplug and plug back in, Mike was concerned that it fried the circuit board and I told him it wouldn't.

I described everything to him about the machine. All GI was working on the machine. I've got plenty of pictures to show this. I called his repair tech and asked him what he repaired and he said something on the board had broke and said that it could of been the battery pack that hit it and knocked it off. I didn't secure the battery pack so I felt responsible in helping out with repairs.

Needless to say I apologized and credited Mike $250 for the repair.. Edit: Everything else he's claiming is a lie.. F-14 board, chrome trim hiding damage BS, diamond plating hiding damage BS, mason jar, playfield fifty, my machine wasn't shopped, if anything this is a seller beware add! GI not working, etc.. Don't sell anything to this guy!

PS-For what it's worth Mike said his wife didn't know about the purchase. He said his wife wouldn't be happy with him about purchasing the machine but he planned on doing it anyway and probably would have to sleep on the couch.. I laughed when he told me that but now I believe it's true..

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

I've sold plenty of machines on here and had no problems at all.

This is absolute horseshit, Cory. You know it, I know it, and everyone here knows it.

Your Blackout WAS a problem. Several games you've sold have been GROSSLY misrepresented.

You're a liar, a scammer, and a thief.

14
#50 5 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

This is a case of buyer remorse. I've sold plenty of machines on here and had no problems at all. The BK2000 was a very nice machine that was completely shopped and working. I replaced all lights with LEDs, all posts, rubbers, display, clean and wax, etc. Apparently the Ransom lights weren't working right because they were plugged in wrong and missed two pins for connection. Simple fix unplug and plug back in, Mike was concerned that it fried the circuit board and I told him it wouldn't.
I described everything to him about the machine. All GI was working on the machine. I've got plenty of pictures to show this. I called his repair tech and asked him what he repaired and he said something on the board had broke and said that it could of been the battery pack that hit it and knocked it off. I didn't secure the battery pack so I felt responsible in helping out with repairs.
Needless to say I apologized and credited Mike $250 for the repair..
PS-For what it's worth Mike said his wife didn't know about the purchase. He said his wife wouldn't be happy with him about purchasing the machine but he planned on doing it anyway and probably would have to sleep on the couch.. I laughed when he told me that but now I believe it's true..

sorry buddy, but when so many have the same story with you it is obvious where the truth is.

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