Anyone here tried working with the SprayMax 1k? I have a lot of touch-ups airbrushing on my Sinbad playfield, and to keep this stage of the process moving, I am using the SprayMax 1k when needed between airbrush (Createx coats).

I have read that putting the 2k on top of the 1k (My plan when all touch ups are complete) is totally fine.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?

UPDATE: Do not use acrylic paints between layers of 1k. The 1k layer underneath the acrylic paint will react with the 1k top coat on your acrylic and cause the acrylic paint to wrinkle. See my topic on my Sinbad Restoration for more details on this.

Wow. That's frightening. I might change my plan. I think earlier in this topic I read that it's fine, but now I'm rethinking that plan.

I am having issues with some 1k wrinkling my air-brushed Createx paint (just some colors, not all) which I suspect might be due too 1) too much 1k being sprayed (which allows the solvent enough time to eat into the acrylic) and/or not fully cured acrylic paint containing too much moisture reacting with the 1k as well.

Not sure this is the right place for this but I wanted to share my experience here since this comes up occasionally and someone might be able to learn from my mistake.

With the obvious dangers of Spraymax 2k, I decided to only use 2k on my topcoat and use the Spraymax 1k (somewhat less toxic and terrifying to use) as the basis for my sealing coats between Createx air-brush touch ups.

DON'T DO THIS! IT will not work!

What I discovered the hard way is that when you have the Spraymax 1k as a base, then apply Createx (and I have no reason to doubt any other brand) touch ups and THEN seal it with a top coat of the SM 1k it will cause your beautiful acyrilic touch ups to wrinkle like a California Raisin that spent too much time in the pool.

The photos here show you what the result looks like.

I did some more testing to discover this the hard way which you can read more detail on in my Sinbad Restoration post:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sinbad-restoration/page/2#post-3868603

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Anyone used a traditional 2 pac with SprayMax 2k?

Mainly for filling in cupped inserts with an eye dropper. It seems like the method of spraying SM2k into a jar and then using the dropped to fill cupped inserts has caused a few folks to get bubbles in their filled inserts. I had this same issue with my failed SM1k 'test', and as I prepare to fix/clear another playfield, I really want to avoid bubbles in the cupped inserts as its a real pain to fix those.

So I'm wondering if there is a 2 Pac (traditional mixing for a traditional spray job) that plays nice with SprayMax 2k?

I had the issue with Spraymax 1k. While a different product, I tried the same "spray in jar' trick and got disastrous results in my inserts (but not all of them: a couple turned out okay). When I read about the same problem others had with SM2K I thought it might be the same propellants used in both products.

Anyway, I didn't spray anything over my inserts after the bubbles appeared as it was pretty horrendous.

Needless to say, this is one he!! I don't want to repeat again. Buying a couple cans of regular 2 pac is a small price to pay to avoid bubbles!

So....anyone have any recommendations for a 2 pac that works with Spraymax?

I eyedroppered in some 2PAC yesterday (brand called "Euroclear"). For under $50 this seems like a good insurance measure to avoid bubbles with Spraymax sprayed in jar technique.

Below are photo's comparing the disaster I had with Spraymax 1k to fill inserts (these are two different playfields BTW) to how the 'real' 2PAC looks 24 hours later. I'm going to wait until next weekend to put my sealing coat on the playfield so I can begin airbrrush and touchups. I'll update this thread with my results.

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I learned a lesson on my first Sinbad Playfield (which will probably be re-themed). I got a LOT of orange peel. Boo!

But I learned something!

Putting on my base coat on my replacement Sinbad Playfield,the results were a LOT better!

1) I put the can a lot closer (about 6" from playfield - that seemed really close to me originally, but was one of the issues I think that results in orange peel on playfield 2
2) Was a bit more generous with the paint application. When people describe a 'base coat' prior to touch-ups, they seem to imply a 'thin coat' of clear - not sure what a 'thin coat' means to this newb, but I laid it on a bit thicker this time.
3) Did one coat. Waited 10 minutes (the 'flash time') and laid down a second.

Results were good for a first base coat. And breathing a sigh of relief there was no silicone or other unfortunate reactions (I cleaned with the traditional alcohol/ME and naptha approach, etc...).

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Looks really great! I have a Williams OXO planned for later! I think these older playfields look amazing with a fresh clear!

Well...darn. Not only do we have wildfires that are sprinkling ash all over the Northwest (a but surreal!), but the humidity is not forecast to be below 60% for several days - I have a short window maybe today - otherwise not until Monday and of course I'll be travelling for work that week. Ready to clear and having to wait on weather is a real pain!

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That seems like really good advice. I'm going to attempt to follow this plan myself. Of course, in 2-3 weeks it will be almost October and I may not have another 70 degree day here in Seattle until next May! LOL

Thanks Plu! I thought I had read somewhere about humidity potentially causing some issues. Good news is that it dropped to 51% and I was able to shoot a can and a half getting three good applications. Whew! Seems to have turned out well. This locks in my airbrush layers, next is key lining and minor touch ups. After that another coat of clear, then decals, then final coat!

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I plan to keep them in for all coats...I haven't really read anywhere that this is a bad thing or any warnings from Vid or others that recommend this. So far, it hasn't caused any issues! I do take care in removing them to ensure I don't also take up any of the clear around them.

Don't wait long! No more than an hour? Just to the point where the clear is "dust safe". A couple of times they almost didn't want to come out without taking some of the clear with it. But gently rocking them breaks the seal and they do come right out after that. Definitely don't leave them in for more than a few hours or they might get sealed in (I suppose I would cut them free with an xacto if that happens).

I might just try pulling them right after too. I'm more afraid of dropping them while the clear is still wet.

That's a good reason to stay away for sure! I always test the side edge just in case. AND keep my hairsock on as well! I've already had a close call with a stray hair! I think they say 90 minutes or something for "touch dry", but mine seemed really fast. But it has been hot. YMMV

I'm an idiot. I've read many posts in this topic and elsewhere about the importance of MULTIPLE THIN layers of clear over decals.

I had one thin coat and thought I would be okay. I thought wrong.

This is what happens when you get impatient and decide to get out of the boat. Never get out of the boat.

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This has been mentioned several times in this thread, but I think it's important to repeat. Unlike traditional HVLP spray guns, SprayMax does not allow you to apply an even, thin coat.

The best you can do is a thin "orange peel" coat. If your like me that seems wrong.

But I think it's okay. I think multiple coats of this thin "orange peel" will ultimately turn out okay because you will ultimately sand it and apply thicker coats. That seems like others experience.

It feels weird because it looks pretty bad, but I don't see any way around it. I think this is mostly a challenge for clearing over decals, so if you aren't doing decals this isn't as critical (see my previous post!).

Anyone else want to confirm or add to this particular behavior with SprayMax 2k?

Round 2. Used a whole can (almost, as others have mentioned, I stop before it's completely out so I don't get a blast of 2k globs) about 7 thin coats. Decal edges started to fade around the fifth coat and were nearly gone by the 6th and are really hard to find with the 8th (I lost track. Might be the 7th or 9th!).

As you can see...lot's of orange peel. My final coat may be tomorrow. Not sure there's any point in waiting?

And to clarify, for those who have had to spray over decals and deal with this orange peel surface, do you sand the orange peel before applying your final medium coats, or spray right onto the orange peel.

Its not totally clear, but it sounds like some folks have sprayed medium coats over the orange peel without sanding to good effect.
True/False?

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Thanks! That's my default understanding. but some responses sounded like they didn't, which might be an option. Frankly, I have PTSD with decals and clear now after my first go, so I have some anxiety about putting down a thicker coat. Restoration is for the fearless or foolish!

Thanks! I appreciate the honest assessment! I have decided I'm going to wait a week before doing any more coats. I know that the clear has probably mostly cured after 24 hours, but I don't have to rush. And I have to think the more time that the existing coat has have to 'gas off' and the more time the decals 'stabilize' with the clear coat (if that's a 'thing'!) the less likely the next coat will cause some of those issues that you are referring to.

Well, the good news is that between each 'coat' (for me, that is usually 2-3 passes - with the first being medium and the final two being a bit thicker) there is a lot of time between the next coat due to the airbrushing. I didn't think about it before, but that is probably a good thing for me.

Base Coat: Aug 27
Touchup/Orange & White Airbrush Sealing Coat: Sep 3rd (1 Week)
Decals and Yellow Airbrush Sealing Coat: Sep 27th (2 1/2 Weeks)
The above had to be sanded back due to the wrecked decals.
Decal Sealing Coat "mist/light" - Oct 7th (1 1/2 weeks)

First, this was a super-helpful post. Thank you!

Second...Eureka! This is it! I'm going to sound stupid, but I always thought it was a terrible idea to spray anything BEFORE the minimum flash-off has happend (10-15 minutes). I think I had read somewhere that you can get clouds or fisheyes or worse if you don't wait for the 'flash off'. So basically I was under the impression that you NEVER do anything before the flash off is done.

ugh. Yeah, knowing this would have saved me a couple of hours of sanding.

I don't want to assume anything more, but so I understand this better Typically when you are laying down coats of clear you generaly want to wait for the previous coat to 'flash off' (e.g. 10-15 min between coats) - the big exception being when clearing over decals. Because it needs to be light so the decals don't 'burn, you don't want to wait more than 2-3 minutes with thicker coats.

The logic being that those first 4 minutes or so that your 'light/mist' coat sits on the decals is enough to 'insulate' (or chemically change/) the decal and your then okay to apply a thicker coat? My only problem with this is that was kind of what I did the first time, but my second coat was very, very thick.

Do I have that right?

Okay, I've sanded down my latest 'mist/orange peel' layer. About two hours. Electric sander and block sander. Still a few 'sparkles' around the decals (on the right by "100 or 1000". I don't want to go too far. Also a few touch ups with black paint which show up well. Normally you would see my light reflecting off this, so its pretty 'toothy' for the most part.

I'm assuming that while these pin pricks aren't great, I can probably clear over them with a thick layer and fill them in. True/False?

Apologies to everyone else who is probably as sick of seeing this playfield as I am!

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Excellent info. Thank you!

That looks almost identical to my earlier issue (scroll up and check out the similar texture on my Sinbad). Embarrassingly I did mine that way on purpose as I was attempting to put down a “very light” coat of SM2k over decals.

The buggest drawback with SM2k is you really can’t get a lite coat (which is not the same as a lite pass, which was my confusion).

Anyway, since I just recovered from this last of many errors, I’ll share my solution. I was able to get my playfield nice and flat and smooth by wet sanding with an electric mouse sander or my random orbit at 400 grit. I don’t get any scratches or black dust. It looks great now. I use 400 for all layers to give them tooth. Final layer I just started with 800 since it was smooth. Never stay in one place and go the same direction as much as possible.

Also: wet sand! Once I started wet sanding it really makes the process a lot smoother too. Just a bit more messy. A couple of squirts of water gets all that dust out of your sandpaper and keeps most of it from flying up in the air.

The “black dust” is a concern.. could your sander be burning up? I can’t imagine that your clear coat was harder than sandpaper at this point. Maybe a bad batch of sandpaper?