(Topic ID: 109931)

The SprayMax 2K Auto Clear in a Can Club!

By Curbfeeler

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

pasted_image (resized).png
IMG_1476 (resized).jpeg
IMG_1477 (resized).jpeg
IMG_1479 (resized).jpeg
IMG_1480 (resized).jpeg
P3280001 (resized).JPG
Pinside_forum_8094523_2 (resized).jpg
Pinside_forum_7738777_3539409 (resized).jpg
thumbnail_IMG_0282 (resized).jpg
IMG_4646 (resized).jpeg
IMG_0115 (resized).jpeg
IMG_0116 (resized).jpeg
PXL_20231124_033122528 (resized).jpg
PXL_20230910_203703295 (resized).jpg
PXL_20231114_053116598 (resized).jpg
PXL_20231114_053126861 (resized).jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider pinballinreno.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#1119 3 years ago
Quoted from dudah:

My project requires me to drill through the clear.
Think this would be OK if done carefully after the clear has cured?

Start the drill in reverse.
Go slow, dont let it grab.

Once thru the clear you should be ok.

2 weeks later
#1129 3 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

Does clearcoating act as sort of a bonding agent for the stuff underneath it that is being cleared? I used tacky glue to add glitter to some of my inserts on my playfield, and I'm hoping that spraying the entire film of clearcoat on the playfield will act as sort of a glue to help hold down the glitter and tacky glue. The tacky glue has a good bond but if I apply enough pressure with my finger nail it can chip off.
It is not large surface areas with glue/glitter, it's just applied on small text and border trim of the inserts. I will be spraying 2 cans of this stuff on my playfield tomorrow and I'm wondering if clearcoating helps hold down the stuff beneath it. I feel like it's one of those situations where you can't know the answer until you try.
[quoted image]

You put a mist coat on and wait 15 mins.

Then another slightly thicker mist coat. Wait 20 mins.

Then a light coat. Not heavy at all.

Next day sand with 800, put 3 light coats 10- 15 mins apart. Then Apply a heavier coat.

Next day sand with 800.
Put 2 medium coats 15 mins apart then a heavy finish coat.

Always dropper in inserts or low spots each day.

Day 4 put 3 coats or one complete can.

If it looks like glass, let it dry 8 weeks.

After 8 weeks sand it flat and buff it out.

1 week later
#1135 3 years ago
Quoted from Langless28:

Ran out of traditional clear coat and am running out of nice days in NEw England so I got spray max for the first time. I enjoy not having to set up and clean/ break down a hvlp setup. This playfield was already cleared and I broke through in a couple spots so needed a final coat. Used a whole can over 3 coats. Light mist-heavy- heavy. The nozzle kept clogging and I could see the clear fan out then stop the start again. No drips but was frustrating. Due to that, I had to angle it higher and do a kinda shaking motion. This led to more orange peel than I would have liked. Since there is a whole can on an already cleared playfield, should have plenty to sand out and flatten through all the imperfections.
Took the black nozzle tip out and was able to spray the last bit an hour or two after spraying to fill a small crack I didn’t catch.
As long as it hardens and sands flat/ polished out, I’m happy with this.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

If its cool in the room, I put the cans in 90 to 100 degree hot water.

Its a graffiti artist trick.

2 months later
#1143 3 years ago
Quoted from budfrog80:

Has anyone ever used spraymax 2k over minwax polycrylic? What about regular 2pac over minwax polycrylic? I need to fill some cupped inserts and like the ease of use of the polycrylic. I have someone that owns a body repair shop that is willing to shoot the clear but I would like to have everything level before I send anything to him. Any thoughts?

It will go over it, just scuff it up real good and go very light the first couple coats.

3 weeks later
#1150 3 years ago
Quoted from epeabs:

Just sprayed a Shadow with 2K after scuffing the original playfield with maroon Scotchbrite. I sprayed a light dusting coat to make sure I didn't have an issue with a Sanctum waterslide decal. Waited 10 or so minutes and then laid down a medium coat. Waited another 10 and then emptied the can. A day or so later, I sanded with 600 and repeated the same process. Waited another day and sanded again with 600 and resprayed. It's been sitting about 10 days. Within the next couple weeks, I will sand with 1000, 1500, and 2000 grit, and buff out.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

perfecly executed.

#1151 3 years ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

first pass heavy so you cant see any misting or dusting and it looks like glass, wait 15 min, second coat heavy so it looks like glass, then use up the rest of the can by keep going over it as much as you can till its empty, toss can in trash.
Edit #1:
Come back two days later to bring the board home.
Edit #2:
If that clear was to lock in your repainting and you are still doing more touch ups wait 2 weeks then sand with 400 and resume painting. If it was your last finishing coat let it cure for a month. then finish sand and polish.

Dont spray the first coat heavy. Way too many bad things can happen.
Before the first coat, eye dropper over any inserts, cups or irregularities.

First coat: Light mist looks cloudy and matte finish, but completely covered.

Wait 7 mins spray a slightly heavier coat to "wet" up the surface, slightly heavier.

Wait 10 mins, spray a medium coat, not heavy. It doesnt have to be perfect, you are going to sand it all out to flatten it anyways

Wait 24 hrs.

Block sand and Do touch-ups and keylines with matched paint and molotow black marker at this time.

Spray second coat, apply another mist coat to keep the marker from bleeding, wait 12 mins.

Apply more eye dropper over inserts.

Apply 2 medium coats, first one lighter than the second, 7 mins apart, should be somewhat wet looking. wait to dry 24 hours and block sand flat.

3rd coat: more eye dripping over inserts apply a very heavy coat, wait 10 mins apply another heavy coat, use up the whole can.

wait 24 hours and look at it, if any imperfections block sand and do the 3rd coat again.

after 7 days look at it, if its mostly perfect you are ok, if not, apply a 4th coat same as the 3rd.

Wait 10 weeks and look at it again.

Block sand it down and either polish or do the 3rd coat yet again.

After that you should have a near perfect surface.

The near perfect surface is actually too smooth for the ball to roll properly.

At this point block sand with 1200 grit and cascade up to 4000 grit and then polish to mirror glaze.

this will still look way better than it needs to, but the ball will roll properly.

3 weeks later
#1158 3 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

Is there a problem doing the painting prior to any clear coat? I’d prefer to do the pf touch ups before starting the clear bc It ill be easier for me logistically. Just want to be sure there are no one has encountered issues proceeding in that order .

Always apply a lite "mist" coat of clear before any paint.

This keeps the paint from soaking in and keeps the wood fibers down. It also stabilizes the wood from planking etc.

#1171 3 years ago
Quoted from Silverstreak02:

Has anyone used Montana acrylic paint markers for the key lines? If you have has there been any problems with compatibility with the Spraymax.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Im using the molotow markers, but any "super high pigment paint markers" will work.

All the pens can bleed unless you put a very fine mist coat over them first before any light or medium coats.

#1179 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

I generally gently hammer those down with the round end of a ball peen hammer.
They can get in the way if you block sand your clear coat.

I use my doming/dapping punches to hammer down all those raised areas before the first coat of clear.

If the edges are super loose, I smear a little titebond on them:

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-piece-doming-block-and-punch-set-93539.html

#1181 3 years ago
Quoted from durgee7:

I apologize if this topic has already been covered thoroughly in this thread or others. Does anyone have a method for laying SprayMax 2k on overlays? I read one post on applying around 5 coats of unspecified automotive clear, 30 minutes apart, with 1st and/or second being light coats. Does light coat mean a once over misting? I'm nervous about burning through a brand new vinyl overlay.
Thanks!

One of the problems with vinyl overlays is poor adhesion of the adhesive.

The general consensus is to sand the playfield flat and remove all of the old artwork.

Then properly apply clearcoat in several coats, sand it flat then polish it.

Wait 12 weeks for the clear to cure completely, it should have no smell at all, no gasses should be present.

Outgassing of the clear will loosen the overlay later on.

Apply the overlay and press it down completely. It sticks best on shiny surfaces.

Apply the clear with mist coats allow to dry and then medium coats. Too much solvent will melt the overlay adhesive.

Its best not to apply the clear too heavy, as it shrinks and dies back, also there's the solvent problem, then a huge amount of tension occurs on the surface.

Hopefully this tension will not lift the overlay and cause it to wrinkle, loosen and shrink.

Done properly and with care they look really good.

#1188 3 years ago
Quoted from durgee7:

Thanks pinballinreno! This sounds like excellent advice. Patience is the biggest takeaway from this advice.
Now, after reading all the posts on ventilation and ventilators, I'm having difficulty finding a full mask with compatible ov/n95 cartridges. Can anyone recommend what they've used while applying spraymax 2k? Any links for a specific mask with the ov/n95 cartridges? I want to, at the very least, follow bare minimum ventilator requirements, replacing cartridges every 30 minutes. I'm planning to build the cheap spray room using pvc with cutouts in plastic sheet for air filters and box fans.

The harbor freight disposable automotive paint mask, $16, is sufficient and rated for 40 hours of exposure.

Couple this with eye protection and youre all set.

#1190 3 years ago
Quoted from mark532011:

Careful of terminology here... remember that almost none of the filter-style masks are adequate. The Spraymax cans contain isocyanates and only an organic-vapor OV+N95 filter can be used and it must be replaced every 20 minutes.
There is a good discussion about this at: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-spraymax-2k-auto-clear-in-a-can-club/page/16#post-5017384
a sample from it: "This cannot be used with half masks, as the n-Butyl acetate is quickly absorbed through your eyes and exposed facial skin. n-Butyl acetate is known to cause acute(immediate) symptoms and damage to your central nervous system. It causes immediate damage to your brain.
This cannot be used with OV cartridges alone.There must be an N95 filtration component due to the content of Hexamethylene diisocyanate homopolymer."
You might want to read through the discussion - or get a total isolation air supply system!

Wow, ok lol...

#1207 3 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

After doing a little reading , it looks as though even an oil free compressor should not be used for supplying air to a respirator.
Not saying it is not possible but the air has to be heavily filtered.
They do make compressors specifically for breathing but sadly They aren’t cheap. If someone has better info please correct me. I just want to be sure everyone is being safe .

The 7 mins max of exposure should be noted.

Sometimes my exposure is only 4 mins. just enough to put on a couple coats.

1 month later
#1224 2 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Smell is mostly gone in a day.
My application tip is to spray close — 4-5” away. This eliminates most orange peel. If you spray far away the solvent evaporates before it hits the playfield and it won’t level out. Speaking of which, make sure the playfield is level before spraying. I use one can per session; light coat then two medium coats. Flash off 15 minutes between coats. Two cans total is enough for me.

2.5 to 3 cans, and one more in 10 days for die back (2 heavy coats 12 mins apart, one whole can mostly)

So, 3 or 4 cans, but I think really 3.5 to 4 cans.

#1228 2 years ago
Quoted from durgee7:

I went ahead and spraymaxed my bare playfield using several coats. I'm going to let it set for a week before sanding. I'll probably wait 6 to 8 weeks to install my Batman overlay.
Question for you guys:
This overlay has a clear protective layer on top. Will this cause issues with Spraymax adhering to the surface, or will several light coats work? I'm wondering if the ink needs to be exposed for better clear adhesion. I appreciate your feedback!
[quoted image]

is that the overlay in the picture?

It looks like the surface is rough?

#1241 2 years ago
Quoted from durgee7:

It's about 4 applications over 2 hours, 30 minutes in between applications (layers or passes could be 20+), or 1 can. I already smoothed it out. Probably too many layers for this step.
I went ahead and wet sanded, followed by naptha, novus 2, and naptha again. Feels super smooth now. I'm still having difficulty polishing these 3 green inserts to a nice shine.
[quoted image]

Clearcoat cant really be mirror finished for about 10 weeks, its not hard enough.

Also, 10 weeks from now there will be substantial die back and you "might" clear it again to fill in any insert dents or other imperfections.

The clear will lose 50% of its volume in 10 to 12 weeks.

It gets very thin and very hard.

2 of those inserts dont look right. Maybe poor adhesion, ghosting? Its hard to say.

Were they sanded rough (550 to 600 grit) before clearing?

#1243 2 years ago
Quoted from durgee7:

Yes, they were sanded up to 600 grit prior to clear coat. I started with 220 and worked up to 600. The inserts looked clean and shiny prior to wet sanding.
Thanks for the helpful information. I'll just keep an eye on the clear and see what happens in the next month and a half.

Might just be too soft to get a good shine.

1 week later
#1251 2 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

Finally got a chance to use a can..
Biggest lesson learned for me is when you see the spray start to weaken, toward the end of the can, just stop. I didn’t and it doesn’t have the glossy look. But I believe when I do my next coat correctly it will gloss over...

Block Sand it flat between coats in straight lines, one direction. Dont make cross cuts.

Start at 550 grit and end at 800 grit.

The can should be at room temperature before spraying.

If not soak them in hot tap water for 15-20 mins, dry them off and then puncture and shake.

#1253 2 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

My can was probably not warm enough.
Will do the sanding before
Next weeks second can..

The longer you wait to sand the harder the material gets.

Its best sanded out the next day or 2.

I usually spray. Then sand out and spray again the next day.

I keep the room temp at 62 to 75 degrees with my room heater.

After the 3rd full coat i let it set 10 days.

If there is noticable die back, i sand and put 2 heavy coats while drip filling insert crevices or whatever the problem was (pinholes, bubbles to pop and carve out, dents etc).

Then i wait 10 weeks for final block sand, then machine polish

At this point i reassemble as the clear is soft enough to not crack.

After 6 more months the surface starts becoming hard.

After 1 year its like a diamond.

Super hard but brittle.

Some restorers put a couple fresh coats of clear on older clearcoated NOS playfields to combat dieback and brittleness before thinking about assembly. It can help a bit.

#1255 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

I have not found the spraymax brittle.
I have saved a piece of masking paper that was sprayed the same thickness as on the playfield.
It is still remarkably plyable after 4 years.
Maybe it depends on the factory mix and the external conditions.

Its not the spraymax thats brittle, its whatever they used on the earlier clearcoat if it has it.

#1259 2 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Second coat day. I did the first coat a few weeks ago which included dropping clear in some spots where it didn’t take due to touch-ups. First taped off with painters tape and sanded down with a block to get those close to flush.
This time I used a 600 grit disc and my RO sander set to a slower speed. Just applied it with its own weight, worked great.
One can of SprayMax in 3 coats 20 minutes between each. Looks beautiful even without polishing, no orange peel. Spray distance about 4-5”. I’ll sand and polish sometime this week. Sanding with 1500/3000 then polish.

Un-polished, That glass like surface is actually too smooth for pinball, the game plays weird and balls slip instead of rolling.

Almost like a bowling alley.

My experience is that I cant get a mirror finish until the clear dries much harder.

The paint just isnt hard enough to put a mirror on it.

After 8-10 weeks, I sand with 800 and then polish to a mirror finish that lasts.

the surface isnt as perfect, or as glossy, but plays better.

So, in essence the surface can be too smooth, too perfect.

Then wax it with P21S or blitz and buff it off.

1 week later
#1280 2 years ago
Quoted from Jappie:

I have a NOS playfield for my Gottlieb Striker that I will clearcoat using Spraymax 2k. I've cleaned the playfield with a magic sponge soaked in naphtha to make sure there aren't any spots that the Spraymax will not stick to. This made the playfield surface quite a bit rougher.
My question: do you guys think I need to sand the playfield before using Spraymax on it? The playfield paint is quite brittle and I'm afraid sanding it will cause damage, especially to the insert lines.
Very curious about your thoughts!

The top coat might be shellac.

Wear nitrile gloves dont touch the surface with oily fingers.

Carefully scuff the surface by lightly dragging with a brand new silver/light gray 800 grit sanding sponge from the auto paint store.

Lightly wipe it down with naptha or maybe rapid-prep to chemically clean the surface, Lightly, Dont soak it. Use cheap un-dyed or un-scented paper towels.

I use rapid-prep a lot. It cleans better than naptha but removes touch-ups. Be careful with it, Naptha is safer.

Allow to dry 30 mins, blow it off with air.

Apply a light mist coat and let dry.

You should be ok

#1282 2 years ago
Quoted from Jeffreyjonesbsme:

I've been using SprayMax for a few years and love it.
I've always let the playfield cure for two months before final sanding, polishing and reassembling.
I let the playfield cure flat too.
But...today...I cleared 3 playfields and don't have the space to have them all cure flat.
Do you have any recommendations on how much time is needed before storing them on their edge?

The paint hardens in 2 weeks, it wont move. The rest of the time is curing and die back.

#1284 2 years ago
Quoted from Jeffreyjonesbsme:

Thanks
They need sanded and another coat applied.
I'll give them at least two weeks lying flat after the final coat.

The lying flat is to minimize warpage as the paint shrinks down.

Playfields used to be stored stacked up on big flat tables or shelves. Not arms or dowels as is often seen in racks.

These days i guess its different.

But hanging on a wall works pretty good if there is no table or shelf.

Ron kruzeman says to unwrap them so that the wrapping doesnt leave an impression. And to wait 6 months for installation.

This is after 2 months drying time.

After 10 weeks its pretty hard and stable in my opinion.

However you can still mar it with a fingernail.

12 months and its like a rock.

#1287 2 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

I dripped SprayMax into inserts to fill them. How long will it take to harden? Where it was thin it seems pretty hard, but where it is thicker it is still kind of mushy after 36 hours.
I wouldn't worry, except that the can didn't puncture with the usual "feel". Concerned that maybe the catalyst didn't mix properly.

Usually they are hard enough to wet sand after 24 hrs.

I spray some of the left over remains of the can into a plastic cup to see if it dries as a sample.

Its just a habit i picked up.

You might not have got enough catalyst.

Put it in the sun for a couple hours.

See if it firms up.

Even with reduced catalyst it will still dry. Just takes longer.

#1291 2 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

It did harden after 3-4 days (RIP mostly full can of SprayMax -- I'll have to find something else to fill inserts in the future). Sanded down and it is nice & smooth now. Hopefully I'm now ready for the final coat once the weather straightens up here. Hot one today!

Regular omni clear and hardener is compatible, or whatever they have now.

A lot of people buy some just for filling inserts.

That way you dont get bubbles or foaming when trying to spray into a jar.

I have some and have used it for this during spraying and it didnt react.

I dont know if you can still get omni clear.

The hardener is expensive for a quart, but it doesnt spoil.

#1293 2 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

If when you droplet the inserts, there are areas on the insert border where the 2k will continue to run away is that a contaminant?
I need to sand and do another round anyway.. but I am wondering if i just didnt get those areas cleaned out well enough..

The clear actually sits like jell-o within the clear if you are shooting the whole playfield.

I shoot a light to medium coat then heavily fill, then a wet coat on top.

Often the filled area is still higher than the surrounding clear.

I have never done just the inserts.

I always fill a bit as it go except for the initial mist coats.

Each consecutive coat I heavily fill the inserts.

They get plenty full after 4 coats.

Sometimes i add even more clear to an insert after the secong coat, while its still wet, to make sure its got enough for that process.

#1295 2 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

Here’s what I am getting. I would drop the clear in the defect. Then after few seconds it moves away..[quoted image][quoted image]

That would be surface imperfection.

Wax and silicone etc causing fish eye. It does build up in crevices.

Try to get it covered. I use rapid prep to remove wax and surface imperfections after naptha wipe downs.

So far (crossing fingers) no real fish eye problems that didnt spray out.

If you can get it to cover, you will be all right. It might take several coats.

I have heard that lacquer thinner applied sparingly can also remove wax and silicones.

1 week later
#1300 2 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

I was able to get all the inserts covered.. now too high which is fine. If I don’t plan on doing another coat of clear should I wet sand or dry or does it not make a difference

Wet Block sand it flat.

Apply the finsh coat. Or not.

Wait 8 to 10 weeks.

If you applied the final coat, Block/orbital wet sand with 800.

Cascade up to 3500.

Polish to mirror

It takes a few weeks to get it hard enough to put a mirror glaze on it.

Done.

1 week later
#1315 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

How long have you waited before polishing?
Because the total cure time is very long - if you go for "perfect"

Ive had great results final sanding and mirror polishing at 10 weeks.

Ball bounce test shows its hard enough for play.

12 months/50 weeks later no more die back but a much harder surface.

#1317 2 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

OK,
Read a bunch of this post, but honestly, an index would be helpful.
I've isopropyled, touched up, naptha'ed. EM playfield.
Ready to spray.
Should I sand and naphtha (ready tac) first?
800 grit dry?
Light spray, wait 15 minutes, heavy spray.
Sit a week, sand (800-1000-3000).
Reapply 2 heavy coats.
Sit 10 weeks, buff/polish?
Set me straight folks.

All sanding is wet sanding 1/2 tsp dawn to 2 qts of water.

rapid prep and then naptha for cleaning.

I use compressed air after wiping.

Use cheap non ink or perfumed paper towels

Sand with 800 grit light gray pad.
Wipe and chemically clean etc.

Mist coat wait 7 mins
Medium coat wait 7 mins.
Medium coat.

Next day block sand flat with 550 or 600. Then 800

Wipe and chemically clean.

Light coat and drip to fill voids.
Wait 10 mins

Medium coat

Wait 7 mins.

Medium coat.

Next day, 600 grit block sand flat straight lines.

800 grit pad, straight lines.

Wipe and chemically clean.

Drip to fill voids

Wait 7 mins

Medium coat

Wait 7 mins

Medium coat

Wait 7 mins

1 heavy coat

Next day

Block sand flat 800 grit

Chemically clean.

Check and fill voids.

1 heavy coat half a can.

Wait 10 mins

1 heavy coat do not go to the end of the can it will splatter.

Wait 7 days check die back.
If too severe block sand flat and apply 2 heavy coats, filling low areas.

Should be good to go.

Wait 10 weeks

Optional if its not perfect enough:

Wet Block sand with 1000 and cascade up to 4000. Straight lines or orbital machine

Polish to a mirror.

Thats it. Should take 3 or 4 cans.

#1320 2 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Check the SprayMax datasheet for spray distance and flash off time.
Anyone else find the cans don’t spray consistently? Some cans are great, others spatter.

I had that happen.

Now i store the can in hot tap water in a home depot bucket.

I dry it off with compressed air then puncture and shake.

90 degrees makes the can spray properly.

Im also making a dam with a paper towel and rubber band 3/8" above the upper rim of the can to protect against drips. Not high enough to affect the spray.

Too many times a perfect job was ruined at the last munute with a stupid drip ftom the channel the cap sticks on to.

I change it between coats.

#1321 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

All sanding is wet sanding 1/2 tsp dawn to 2 qts of water.
rapid prep and then naptha for cleaning.
I use compressed air after wiping.
Use cheap non ink or perfumed paper towels
Sand with 800 grit light gray pad.
Wipe and chemically clean etc.
Mist coat wait 7 mins
Medium coat wait 7 mins.
Medium coat.
Next day block sand flat with 550 or 600. Then 800
Wipe and chemically clean.
Light coat and drip to fill voids.
Wait 10 mins
Medium coat
Wait 7 mins.
Medium coat.
Next day, 600 grit block sand flat straight lines.
800 grit pad, straight lines.
Wipe and chemically clean.
Drip to fill voids
Wait 7 mins
Medium coat
Wait 7 mins
Medium coat
Wait 7 mins
1 heavy coat
Next day
Block sand flat 800 grit
Chemically clean.
Check and fill voids.
1 heavy coat half a can.
Wait 10 mins
1 heavy coat do not go to the end of the can it will splatter.
Wait 7 days check die back.
If too severe block sand flat and apply 2 heavy coats, filling low areas.
Should be good to go.
Wait 10 weeks
Optional if its not perfect enough:
Wet Block sand with 1000 and cascade up to 4000. Straight lines or orbital machine
Polish to a mirror.
Thats it. Should take 3 or 4 cans.

No problem, i hope it helps you to get started.

1 month later
#1326 2 years ago
Quoted from budfrog80:

Hey everyone. Great thread. I have learned a ton.
I decided to clear my Eight Ball playfield. The previously filled inserts shown in the pictures were filled prior to the first coat of clear and now remain “high” compared to the playfield. Any suggestions for sanding these flush with the playfield without going through the clear?
Also, have one stupid bug stuck in the clear . Thanks everyone.
[quoted image][quoted image]

If its just the clear thats high, block sand it flush and go onto the next coat of clear.

Block sanding and flattening are part of the process.

If the inserts are high thats a whole other discussion.

1 month later
#1337 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

600 seems a bit too much. I would lightly sand starting with 800 just in case the coarser grit telegraphs once the clear shrinks?
What do you guys think?

For the first mist coat 600 grit gives a good bite. I just press moderately on a fresh 800 grit, gray 3m sponge in straight lines.
Its rated at 600 to 800 depending on its use. When the sponges loose their grit I save them for later during finishing.

Chris Hutchens uses 550 grit, carefully.

for the second and successive coats 800 grit for block flattening, and so on.

with the mist coat, plus the first coat then sanding, if all goes well a second finish coat might be ok.

But really after flattening and thinning down the clear, a 3rd coat is what usually happens.

then buffing down the clear, or one more coat for die back, at about 10 weeks.

If I see substantial die back after 10 days, I put a 4th heavy finish coat, then sand down (flatten and thin) and buff out at 10 weeks.

#1339 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

How long do you wait between coats?

Mist coat then wait 7 mins then light coat. Never put much paint down on the first coat. It doesn't have to wet up.

Next day, flatten with 800 then drip into low areas, put 2 medium coats enough to wet up, 7 mins apart.

Next day flatten then lite coat wait 5 mins then a heavy coat. Nearly one whole can basically.

It really helps to rubber band a shroud of paper towel around the can 1/2" above the edge but below the spray pattern to keep drips from falling off the can edge.

This really screws up an otherwise perfect job as you will have to sand them out later.

I do it on all rattle can jobs that are above the work.

Its especially hateful when you get a big droplet onto a spatter job like a coin door.

Air blow and chemically treat before any painting.

Rapid-prep is better than naptha.

I use both, no fish eyes.

First naptha with a pure paper towel.

Then rapid-prep then air blow.

#1341 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Thanks a bunch, this is really very helpful. I am about 95% done with restoring my funhouse playfield. It is my fourth one but I am still learning alot. Before I did the whole HPLV setup but it is a pain to set up and puts a ton of vapor in the air which seems much more dangerous than the 2k. I would really like to just use the 2k going forward.
I have had problems before with fisheyes and this time I really focused on cleaning really well before the first coat (prior to repainting). I used Rapid-prep on a buffer sponge and got no fish-eyes. I also put down a very light first coat just to cover the surface and I waited 2 weeks for it to fully cure. Now I am hoping I am good because the final clear will either be on the first clear coat or new paint.[quoted image]

Rapid prep is the key.
Eastwoods has great info on auto paints.

They say to use cheap paper towels with no ink or dye on them.

Hopefully little lint.

I like the marathon tri fold towels.

#1342 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

waited 2 weeks for it to fully cure

The longer you wait the harder the finish is.

During the process I dont wait too long, it gets too hard to sand out by hand and have to use the orbital sander which is very scary but effective.

After the final process then I wait for it to cure, 10 weeks.

#1344 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

I got a old whirlwind playfield a while back from a guy who was doing a swap and I used as a practice PF. It was the first time I used the 2k and I had a weird issue. I was playing around with using clear vinyl stickers instead of waterslides. When I put on a layer of clear over the stickers everything worked fine. However, when I would spray a new coat the next day the stickers would "pucker up". I would sand it back but it happened a couple of times. I plan to use waterslides this time but I was thinking I would wait a week or so after the first coat so that I was sure the next coat would not have some weird interaction with the first. That was kind of an experimental PF so maybe it was some other variable but you have never had any problems with waterslides under the first coat after a day?

Poor surface adhesion. Adhesion promoter can help with stickers as well as rapid prep.

Generally decals and stickers want a shiney surface to adhere well.

water slide are the best as they melt into the clear and become part of the paint.

After putting down a lockdown coat of clear:

Start with a mist coat let to dry over the decals, then a light coat let to dry.

After that they should be set pretty good.

Still the surface tension of clearcoat can cause difficulties.

The same applies to overlays.

#1351 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Is the 10 weeks only for playing? Is it okay to repopulate the playfield a week or so after? Seems like it would but maybe the posts or something would introduce some kind of stress?
If it is okay to repopulate is it also okay to do a good waxing? I like to wax before I repopulate so I am sure I can get everywhere.

Its 10 weeks or more to bounce a steel ball on it.

I buff and wax then start re-assembly at 10 weeks.

It takes me a couple weeks to finish, so an actual test game to flip a ball on it, would be in week 13 or 14.

I always start with the clearcoating of the playfield, then cabinet restoration and then rebuilding the mechs.

Even new playfields have to be cleared to counter the die back problems on new playfields, then wait 10 weeks.

It usually takes me 4 to 6 weeks to have a perfect cabinet and perfect new or rebuilt mechs.

Then a week to sort out wiring and new switches and sockets.

Everything seems to come together at the 10 week mark.

Its all part of a process that takes 4 months (or more) to produce a brand new (or better than new re-manufactured) game

#1356 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Well alright then. Honestly waiting is the hardest part for me. I am super obsessive and just stopping kills me but I will do my best.
I also do a lot of woodworking and waiting the recommended time between coats of finish always catches me up.
Can I ask what specifically "die back" is?
I did start with the playfield but after cleaning and replacing inserts I put a light clear coat down and then waited two weeks. During that two weeks I re-did the cabinet. I still have some work to do on the cabinet and can rebuild mechs and polish metal guides but not more than a week or two.
Thanks a bunch for the advice.

The clearcoat paint is 90% solvent.

As it dries over time the solvent leaves, the paint shrinks.

1mm of pant coating equals 1 10th of a mm after dry. Often even thinner.

I think the clearcoat is mostly stable at about 16 months.

Automobiles left in the hot sun cure in about 3 months.

Ron Kruzman says to hang his freshly restored playfields on the wall for 3-6 months before assembling and playing.
And he waits weeks before he sends it back to you, as he looks at the die back and makes adjustments.

Brand new playfields that were just made look gorgeous!

Wait 12 weeks and you see insert edges appear and wood grain appearing.

I always have to re-clear new playfields to flatten them out.

#1357 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Honestly waiting is the hardest part for me

Its the hardest part for everyone, including games manufactures.

The biggest issue with playfields is improper curing and surface prep.

Big guys rush the games into production and then out to distributors.

People keep complaining about pooling, dents, clearcoat lifting or cracking etc.

All of this is because the factory has a very hard time waiting for the paint to dry, or the time (and expense) it takes to do a good job

Brand new games rarely pass the fingernail test under the apron.

Automotive clear is so incredibly hard when cured, you could never dent it with a fingernail.

Vid uses the nose test.

If you can still smell solvent coming off the paint, its not dry enough to play on.

Possibly ok to assemble, but thats where the pooling comes in...

#1358 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I have used actual lemon essential oil to remove stickers my daughter laid down on a hardwood floor, and to my surprise, the sticker came off rather quickly, with no residue so I am wondering what other chemicals these have....

Rapid remover is fascinating stuff.

You can actually see 30 year old crispy mylar glue absorb the fluid in 60 seconds.

Then just scrape off the globs with a plastic razor blade.

A couple more wipe downs with the remover and all glue is gone.

The remover is wiped off completely with naptha.

It will not promote fish eyes as a lot of cleaners or oils will.

It was specifically developed for automotive mylar that had been in the sun for decades.

And after sticker removal still be paint ready.

Rapid Prep is a final cleanser that chemically cleans and makes inert any wax, oils, silicones or other compounds that would interfere with clearcoat adhesion.

When a painter says its chemically cleaned before painting, they use rapid prep or a similar product. They are not talking about naptha, thats a different process generally after rapid prep.

I like all the rapid products because they are non-toxic, environmentally safe and work exceptionally well.

#1361 2 years ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

Actually closer to 60% solvents to be technical. But still alot shrinkage.

Yeah it depends on how much thinner is added for spraying too.

So, yeah a lot of shrinkage for sure.

#1365 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

I’ve finally obtained some aerosol 2k … not Spraymax, as it’s not available here, I’ve got a German equivalent called Mipa 2k. It’s got good reviews from what I’ve seen online. So let’s give it a go!
https://www.raj.co.nz/product-group/2243-mipa-2k-clearcoat-aerosol-fast-dry-gloss/category/442-clearcoats
My question - what are you guys using to do the lines around the inserts etc?
I usually use a Pebeo Oil based paint marker pen - has anyone tried these with 2k?
rd[quoted image]

https://www.raj.co.nz/product-group/2243-mipa-2k-clearcoat-aerosol-fast-dry-gloss/category/442-clearcoats

Looks exactly the same as spraymax 2K, its also made in Germany.

I use the molotow paint makers due to the very high pigment solids.

It doesnt bleed during the mist cost and primary lite coat.

You might do a test application to see if the Pebeo is ok. Theroetically if its oil based it should be fine.

Shine a light under the insert to see if they cover well.

I did this with several makers and chose the molotow as it covered really well.

Rapid-prep eats oil based markers and smears them, naptha does not so much.

Be cautious when wiping down before clearing.

Heavy coats over markers might cause a bleed, but Im always careful.

#1366 2 years ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

Has anyone here used Mother’s CMX Surface Prep to clean their playfield before spraying?
https://www.semproducts.com/product/mothersr-cmxr-surface-prep
According to Mother’s own tech support it can be used for paint prep.
[quoted image]

Im using Rapid-Prep for final wipe down, before a naptha wipe down.

Eastwoods recommends it. Its tried and true.

Im not comfortable using something else.

Im very happy with the fish-eye protection that Rapid-Prep does.

#1369 2 years ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

CMX prep test worked. Followed directions on the bottle, and followed up with a wipe with a tack rag right before beginning to spray.
Started out with a mist coat followed by 3 light coats. No fish eye detected. Plenty of planking that I can work on once it dries and filling in low spots.
[quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image]

This is really good to know.

#1371 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Anyone have any tricks for keeping sanding gunk out of the holes on the playfield. I came up with this hand flapper sander thing but it would be nice to avoid it altogether.[quoted image][quoted image]

I use this kit in my drill motor:

https://www.harborfreight.com/engine-brush-kit-20-pc-63732.html

They dont have to fit tight, lots of sizes for the money.

A .22 cal brass bore brush is the most handy for sanding out clearcoat in post holes.

Its best not to drill clear out of post holes due to possible chipping problems.

any left over is scraped off with an exacto knife (front or backside) #11 blade or a scalpel.

#1375 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Thanks, I will see if my HF has those brushes. I think I read that ear plug thing but I am wondering if he keeps them in between coats or removes them when spraying clear.

I dont use any plugs at all.

Its not really worth the hassle.

Holes that need cleaning clean up quickly during assembly.

After clearing and sanding, i wash out the holes from polishing compounds with naptha and small brushes.

#1381 2 years ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

Are you completely stripping your playfields top and bottom? If so I can see the logic there. If you are tearing down only the topside, the plugs do help.

Lol, ive never just done a topside refresh.

Though it can have pretty good results.

I see so much grime and worn parts, i end up with a total tear down on the games that come my way.

These days i dont even bother trying a patch job.

I go right to the total tear down.

#1391 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

I have never warmed the can.
My ritual does include actually timing how long i shake the can.

I warm the cans in hot tap water if they are cool to the touch.

I just put one in the sink of as hot of tap water i can get before shaking and puncturing, for about 15 mins.

If the can is warm, or at least not cold, it sprays better.

I shake it for the 2 mins while in the booth.

Clean with rapid prep in the spray booth.

Sort out the spray can.

Use naptha and a tack rag immediately before spraying.

I keep pipettes, tweezers, tape, a little table, naptha, paper towels, mixing cups and whatever i might need in the booth as well as a timer.

The timer is crucial for good results.

You can never wipe with the tack rag too much.

Often i wipe down seconds before spraying, just in case lol.

#1396 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I dont have access to naptha where I live. It is banned here and really do not want to experiment with camp fuel to see what happens.
All that to say, can I just use rapid prep followed by rapid tac and get spraying?

Dont use rapid tac. Its not necessary

#1397 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Well after a lot of sanding and polishing I think I am pretty much there. It is very flat and has a good shine. There are some very fine lines from sanding that I am still chasing but they don't show up in pictures. Because I did a lot of spraying and sanding to get it flat I am probably a week out from the first spray so I am hoping my "die-back" is minimal. I will do a final polish after it is fully cured.
I will note that it currently passes both the "finger-nail" and "smell" test. I am still going to wait but those may not be the best method to confirm a full cure.
I am pretty happy with it but still learning a lot. At this point the clear job is probably about as nice as the paint job so chasing it much further doesn't matter too much. I am definitely not very efficient but the finished product is what counts.
I will say that I feel like I am a little limited on the 2k. It kind of sprays how it sprays and I just have to live with it. I am no expert on a full HPLV setup (I have done two but as a true novice) so I am sure there are a lot of learning curves there but I am contemplating going back and trying that again on my next one. I have been watching HEP's videos and am so jealous of his setup and skills. Everything looks mirror perfect but he has 40 years of high-end painting experience so what are you going to do. I was laughing today about what I would have thought two years ago when I got into pinball that 75% of my effort was basically improving my painting and coating skills.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Looks really good.

You dont need a lot of equipment to spray a 2 foot square piece of plywood.

Wait 10 days. It will absolutely die back. Absolutely.

At 10 days it will show you where its going.

Sand with 800

Fill the die back with a dropper and put on a super heavy coat:

Mist coat wait 7 mins.

Heavy coat, 1/3 a can or slightly less or more.

Wait 10 mins

Heavy coat, other 1/3 of the can.

Put enough paint to cover any drip fills you did. Puncture any bubbles with a straight pin.

Dont run out the can dry, it will splatter and ruin the finish. Throw away the bottom 1/4 can.

Make sure you tape a dam along the upper edge of the can and frequently dump.out the rim.

This is where those big drips ruin a perfect job.

Wait 10 weeks and you are done.

Essentially you can sand with 1000 cascade up to 4000, and buff, to flatten again and fix any rough spots at this time.

#1398 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I dont have access to naptha where I live. It is banned here and really do not want to experiment with camp fuel to see what happens.
All that to say, can I just use rapid prep followed by rapid tac and get spraying?

Coleman fuel.

#1401 2 years ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Thanks, I wanted to get as many lines out now as I could assuming it would be harder in a week or so but I am ready to hang it up.

Its all about the die back. And whatever grade of finish you want.

10 weeks from now you will see more die back. Always.

Chris usually applies more clear to flatten it out again after 8 to 10 weeks.

This is how you get a mirror finish.

Oddly in the long run it doesnt matter too much due to ball dimples, scrapes and scratches.

#1407 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

Wow this thread is great.
I’m curious if anyone here has used a turbine sprayer to clear a playfield? I have a Fuji Mini Mite 3, but never tried it with 2-part. I think I need to order a smaller needle for it, but I might give it a shot and compare it to SprayMax.
amazon.com link »

It might lay down too much paint, too quickly in order to get any control out of it.

#1410 2 years ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

Does that make Spring Break the most Spray 2K'd pin in the club? Out of curiosity, what game did you replace it with?
I just finished sanding mine down. Now it's ready to sit for a while to harden up.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Before:[quoted image]
After:[quoted image]

Looks great!

#1415 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I have been following HEP here on pinside because I love his work and because I like to pick up the little details as he goes, it helps me learn and improve my pinball fixing skills.
All that to say, he recently said that adhesion promoter should always be used when clearing a PF. I am not questioning his word as his work speaks for itself and he is a professional painter by trade.
All that to say and because this is a canned product, how can the ‘adhesion’ be promoted when using this product?
Thanks

Adhesion promoter (3m and a variety of manufactures make a specific product depending on the plastic being painted) is used to insure good adhesion of automotive paint and clearcoat to plastics.

If a game has never been cleared, the oily plastic inserts can reject the clear or the clear will fail to bond properly to them.

This is main reason for ghosting and halos.

When balls strike the plastic inserts, the surfaces flex slightly and release the clear due to imperfect bonding.

Adhesion promoter is used in the automotive industry on all of the flexible bumpers and any rubber or plastic then needs to be painted with automotive paint.

If a playfield has already been cleared, and you are refreshing the clearcoat, adhesion promoter will have little effect as the plastics are already covered in clearcoat.

Rapid Prep cleaner, chemically cleans the surface of clearcoat and promotes molecular bonding of subsequent layers of clearcoat. It is also an adhesion promoter.

One of the downsides of some of the adhesion promoters is that they might not be clear, and leave a slight milky surface. Regular opaque paints cover this and you dont see it.

You have to be careful when choosing adhesion promoters under clear coatings. These products can leave residue or impact the clarity of the clearcoat.

I have had great success with rapid prep, but im sure there are other products out there from the automotive industry. I havent used very many.

#1417 2 years ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

You are confusing plastic primers with adhesion promoters.
There are indeed adhesion promoters that are made for and used on previously painted panels.
They are made to insure adhesion to panels that cannot be as thoroughly abraded as the panels being painted fresh.
These would be blend panels in the automotive refinishing fields.
Playfields are essentially blend panels when reclearing. You can’t truly thoroughly abrade them because of insert levels and the risk of breaking through into the art.
Spraymax is a much different animal than the things I use so I wouldn’t profess on that but please do not question my process or practices against that there is no carry over.

I agree there is no way to carry over your process, its perfect!

I dont profess to know anything about automotive finishing other than my experience with only playfield clearcoat and opaque colors for when I was restoring vending machines..

Ive used a lot of the spraymax glamour coat recently. It suits my needs and though a little finicky, has a good result.

Automotive finishing a complete mystical world best left to professionals like you!

I was testing SEMS adhesion promoter and didnt like the way it left a haze? residue?

What adhesion promoter would you suggest for non cleared playfields as well as previously cleared? There are tons of them.

#1419 2 years ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Thanks it’s not something that I am guarding or anything it’s just not practical for most people or hobbyist.
Spray max definitely is so I appreciate the nature of the thread.
I recommend Cromax 222s it’s it absolutely clearable.
Depending on how milky some adhesion promoters look most clears will gloss right over them just like they do on sanded surfaces.
The real issue is if they are truly clear or somehow tinted.
Ones made for certain purposes are tinted.
Saying adhesion promoter is like saying clear,bondo etc sometimes.
There are various versions made for various purposes.
Devils always in the details. Hard details to explain at times.

Gotcha, makes total sense.

Ill take a look at the Cromax.

Thank you so much for your input!

And thanks for clarifying this up for us.

You're the best Chris!

#1422 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

You spray it and give it 5-10 minutes or so. There are rattle can adhesion promoters but like the man said, theyre probably not clear enough for clearcoat. Dunno. I’ve only used them under paint.

I ran a test of the SEMS adhesion promoter rattle can on a sample.

It left a haze and i didnt follow thru and clear over it to see if it was tinted or not.

It might be ok, as Chris said, it might just mix in and disappear. Or it will be really bad.

I would have to do further testing.

Unless someone else can chime in on it?

#1426 2 years ago
Quoted from Jeffreyjonesbsme:

I need some opinions on what you do after you spray.
I don't have a perfectly clean environment and often get a few specks of dust into the clear.
I've seen multiple opinions and how and when to do the next steps, but I want to hear from you.
Thanks

A few specs are ok, as you sand each coat before the next.

So its not critical.

On the final finish pass its a little more critical but not much.

You should still sand out the finish coat to thin the coating and flatten it further.

Then cascade up the grits and rub and buff.

A few specs wont matter at all.

#1429 2 years ago
Quoted from Jeffreyjonesbsme:

I was hoping for more details.
Sand the whole playfield or just the specks?
What grit to start and end?
How long to wait to sand?
How long to wait to polish?
How do you polish?
What equipment do you you use and what products?

The whole thing.

All of this has been addressed in this thread.

2 weeks later
#1432 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Just did my first playfield with “2k in a can” .. an old Lost World I bought back from the edge.
Funny - this one is quite burgundy/red. When I saw the CPR ones they’re really purple. Must have faded badly somewhere along the way.
Anyway - as per previous post I used the Mira2k from Germany. Very happy with how it came up. I did 4-5 very light passes 5 mins apart (flash time as per can instructions) and then a few heavier coats 5 mins apart. Probably 8 coats total.
Used up the one can …
So shall I go the whole hog and sand this back and use another can? (And if so, how long before I sand this back ..?)
Or just leave it be?
rd[quoted image]

The next day after the first coat:

I block sand it down to start the flattening process and do my touch ups, keylines etc.

Then put on a light coat, then spray the paint into a jar and use a disposable pipette or dropper to fill all the low spots and insert edges.

Next day,block sand, then light coat, slpooge more clear into the low spots with a dropper, 2 meduim "wet" coats.

Next day flatten out the playfield by block sanding quite a bit to check for more low spots.

If its pretty flat, light coat, then a medium coat then 2 heavy "wet" finish coats. Basically a whole can.

If it looks mostly perfect, let it sit 6 to 10 weeks and assemble the playfield later.

If there is substantial die back at 6 weeks, block sand, fill low spots and put a heavy coat or 2 of paint.

Let it dry 4 weeks and then block sand to thin the paint a bit, then buff it out then start assembly.

The whole process is 3 or 4 cans of paint in 3 operations. 3 if all goes well enough.

1: mist coat to seal up loose fibers and give a foundation for touch ups

2: heavier filler coats.

3: finish coats.

#1434 2 years ago
Quoted from Pablito350:

8 coats from one can? How big is that can?
I only get 2 - 3 coats with me laying down a very light 1st coat.
From the pic you posted it looks like you took it right after you laid down your last coat, and it still has to flow out because you can see the texture to it.
It can also be that the coats were too light with not enough to flow out on each coat. It'd also explain how you got 8 coats.
-Paul

very light mist coats for the first pass. Its a good technique to avoid fisheyes and other horrible problems.

The next coats can be much heavier flow-out and filler coats.

#1446 2 years ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

Looking good so far. You going to use a dropper for the inserts or just try to spray heavier over them?

You really have to use a dropper.

The spray walls up and wont get in the cracks.

2 weeks later
#1480 2 years ago
Quoted from rdrapeau3171:

Hey folks,
This is an awesome thread! I started reading the first few pages, but there are 30 pages in all so far. I have a Cyclone playfield that I want to clear with a couple of cans of Spraymax 2k that I purchased about 2-3 years go. They have never been used.
Does anyone know if there is a step by step set of instructions that someone with experience with this stuff may have put together and is on one of the thread pages?
Thank you.

They are in the vids giude for playfield restoration:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

Dont be lazy, read up on it.

1 month later
#1509 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Cabinet does too.
Note the brighter yellow - there are a number of different colours on Taxi cabinets. My headbox is brighter than my cabinet for example (really noticeable on the back of the pin) Could well have been made by two different companies at the time.
rd[quoted image]

Who made your decals?

I need a set.

I prefer the screened type of next gen UV resistant ones, if I can get them.

#1510 2 years ago
Quoted from mark532011:

a complete sticker on bare wood

Stickers on bare wood wont adhere properly.
There should be a clearcoated smooth "near polished" surface in order to get them to adhere.

Even then you have to use many mist coats, drying in between, to keep them from shrinking and puckering.

Still, after doing it perfectly, I have seen thin 3mil overlays pull back.

I agree that it looks like the reducer in the urethane softens the glue.

#1515 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

always wondered how to remove the bottom panel? isn't it proved and inserted on the side of the cab? Really curious if you want to share the process!

You route the edge back so the bottom is exposed.

Knock out the bottom.

Replace with new bottom.

Glue and staple/screw new bottom in.

Add cover trim to create a new edge and strengthen it.

End cut plywood trim pieces makes it an invisible repair.

An alternative way is to completely slice off the bottom with a skill saw.

Add a new bottom that is not inset.

Glue and staple or screw the new panel on.

Fill the edge seams and screw heads, paint and decal.

If you staple you have a better appearance but a weaker job.

This is faster and works well as the bottom doesnt hold any weight at all.

But lacks the original feel unless you add on trim for looks.

I like screws for cab repair. They are much better than staples or brads and last forever.

3 weeks later
#1528 2 years ago
Quoted from Garrett:

I have a question for those that have used this clear coat on EM machine. Does it dramatically effect the intended gameplay?
I have an Aztec I'm working on and need to clear it when completed. [quoted image]

In my opinion, the game plays faster and better.

2 weeks later
#1536 2 years ago
Quoted from budfrog80:

Has anyone ever just polished the final coat without sanding? I am about to reassemble an eight ball playfield and it looks perfect. Would it be too slick? Thanks guys?

I sand and buff so that its not too slick and gives the wax something to stick to.

Too slick and the balls dont roll, they just shoot straight or fire like on a bowling ally.

The game geometry changes a bit.

But its just what I like, you dont have to do it at all.

1 month later
#1547 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

I don't suppose there is a way to check the thickness of the clearcoat on a playfield? I was going to buy a paint thickness gauge but those only work when the underlying material is metal, not wood. I used 4 cans of Spraymax on a White Water playfield, sanding after 2 cans and sanding again after the additional 2 cans. I have a few low spots around inserts, and I am not sure if I have enough clear coat on the playfield where I can just sand them level with the rest of the playfield. They aren't terribly low.

I use a thin straight edge and shine a flashlight behind so I can see the low areas.

I take a mental note of where to put the clear on heavier on the low spots.

During the medium coating phase I spray a heavy amount on the low areas first.

Then I spray around the edges of the heavy spray area to blend it all in a bit.

Sand it out and do it again.

This has worked well enough for me.

#1554 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

Can you post some pictures of playfields you’ve restored with the processes you’ve posted in this thread please?

Im so sorry that I didnt take pictures of my work.

I will start doing it later on, Im doing a TAF right now.

2 months later
#1603 1 year ago
Quoted from rdrapeau3171:

Yendor and Bigguybbr...thanks for the advise.
Regarding my rippled decals, the outgassing under the decals, that makes sense.
On my playfield I waited at least a day after clear coating the playfield before I put on the decals. The decals I have are not water slide (which is what I thought I was getting when I bought them). They are pretty much like stickers. Here is where I bought them:
ebay.com link: itm
The decals/stickers have been on the playfield for a week now, so I presume there should not be any outgassing issues. Do you think if I put mist layer of clear coat over the whole playfield to seal the decals, wait 20 mins for flashing, and then put on another thicker layer so it is glossy I should be ok, or should I put on a mist layer, wait several days, then put on a thicker layer?
I looked for a long time yesterday and I can't find waterslide decals for Cyclone. Anyone know where they can be found?

Clearcoat takes at least 12 weeks to stop smelling/outgassing...

2 weeks later
#1609 1 year ago
Quoted from jazc4:

I'm 2 cans into a JM playfield clear. It's looking good, but not thick. Should I expect to use 1 or 2 more cans to get that thicker look? Also, I'm spraying in 82 degrees with 50% humidity. Does spraying in the high temperature play a part in the thickness?

It takes me 3 1/2 cans to do a good job.

And maybe a 4th can if I dont like the die back after 6-10 weeks.

4 weeks later
#1630 1 year ago
Quoted from Langless28:

Red/ burgundy scotch brite pads is what I would use in Thai situation.

I use the grey 800 scotch brites.

Sometimes under my orbital sander with the interface pad.

#1632 1 year ago
Quoted from jazc4:

I’ve now cleared two playfields with Spraymax. If you take your time and follow Pinballinreno’s instructions, it’s pretty easy. I did a JM and a RS and they came out amazing. JM is complete, but RS still needs sanding to 3000, then more curing time. The pictures don’t do it justice as to how good it does.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Nice work!

1 month later
#1668 1 year ago
Quoted from Chrimeg:

So I've finally got my playfield cleared with 2K in can. Sanded and buffed. Just wondering about waxing and repopulating.
Right now its been three weeks since final clear and buffing etc. Do you apply wax? What kind do you recommend these days?
Wax before repopulating playfield (wooden rails etc)? How long should I wait before putting down wax and populating? I've been reading all kinds of dates from from 4 days, to 6 weeks to months....not really sure how long to wait to be honest.
[quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image]

Youve waited 3 weeks and now you can see the die back forming. It probably started showing at 10 days.

Time to clean it off sand it with 800, fill the insert crevices and re-spray it.

Wait 10 weeks before waxing and repopulating.

#1672 1 year ago
Quoted from Chrimeg:

Hmmm....What am I looking for in the die back? The playfield has been fully sanded and buffed smooth and ready for repopulation of components. Has been that way for 3 weeks with no change that I can see. Is there something else I'm looking for before waxing? Boy I hope I don't have to clearcoat again and re-level/buff before waxing. Essentially redo everything I just done over the past few months.
Sort of confused here now as I thought processes sanding flat between coats of clear then doing the final steps on the last coat. I could wait and buff and wax.
Does the clear do something with the level surface after 3/4 weeks that I need to do it over again? I don't want to start populating everything only to have to take it apart and redo.
Thanks for the info though as I was getting ready to prep the surface for parts and glad I didn't until I can find out what look for.

You don't "have" to do anything but,

The dents at the edges of the inserts are pronounced now.

You will find other areas too.

And they will get worse in a few weeks.

Clear coat loses haff or more if its thickness in 12 to 16 weeks.

Things start showing up. Dents appear where there were none.

It doesnt fill very well.

This is why we keep building up problem areas like insert egdes.

It best to address this now and not regret it in 36 weeks.

I do a final sand and buff at 12 weeks to level out the playfield as best as one can.

A lot of the die back has happened by then and can be sanded out mostly.

However, its a pinball game!

It will get torn up anyways if you play it a lot.

So, in the end, it may not matter at all.

#1678 1 year ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

That depends on the product. The spec sheets for the product will reveal the voc by percentage. A super high solid material will lose verry little of its film thickness.

I can only go by my experience with spraymax, it shrinks a lot.

but no more than other automotive clears.

1 week later
#1685 1 year ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Yeah I feel bad for you guys that live where its banned, this stuff is a necessity

Rapid-prep is nearly as good as Naptha, but takes a few minutes to dry. I blow the surface off completely after applying it with compressed air.

Its a very good cleaner for automotive paint use, I use it to control fish eyes.

Its very effective:

https://rapidtac.com/rapid-prep.html

Use it very sparingly as it removes paint marker and might lift createx paint.

I use it over clearcoat, bondo and primer mostly.

For a water based cleaner, its extremely powerful. But its non toxic and you can get it where Napthta is no longer available

I have never had a fish eye since using it.

#1690 1 year ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

I use this stuff, too and really like it. It does lift Createx paint easily, though.

I started using it for a final wipe down, as I didnt trust that the naptha was pure and clean enough.

You have to go very easy over paint parker or touchups, or avoid those areas completely.

Automotive clear can be simple or annoyingly complex.

Even oddball chemical traces in a paper towel can affect it.

Rapid-prep is awsome to insure no silicones or strange left over chem traces.

After using it my clear flattens down perfectly and I never have trouble.

Playfields are hard to paint with clear as the have many different elements to cover, unlike say a car.

You have plastic inserts, touch up paint, keyline marker or decals, old silkscreen ink, 30 years of wax applied etc.

Its kind of a miricle that it actually adheres.

Rapid-prep seems to make everything clean for the clear to stick without applying a surface primer.

#1711 1 year ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

Got some bubbles and fish eyes on my latest coats of Spraymax. Sigh. Now i will have to sand down to remove them, will probably take off a little paint too. Next time I'm doing the Rapid Prep that pinballinreno talks about often. I think the last thing i used before spraying was a tack cloth, it probably had oils and paint from previous wipings. This stuff is sensitive to the most minute things.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Clear coat sometimes has to be surgically clean.

Wear nitrile gloves at all times other than sanding and rinsing. Never touch the surface before getting ready to clean and spray.

I use fresh blue tack cloths for each session. I suit up to keep hair and crap from falling onto the surface.

I also use kirkland paper towels. They dont appear to have any dyes or perfumes.

I wipe down with rapid prep outside the booth, blow it off with air, then do a final wipe with clean paper towel and naptha inside the booth.

Just before spraying I wipe down with a tack cloth. I dont rub too hard.

I dont clean the booth between sessions. The clear makes everything sticky and deadens the air.

I have simple hepa type filtration for in and out with a cheap box fan.

#1712 1 year ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

Got some bubbles and fish eyes on my latest coats of Spraymax. Sigh. Now i will have to sand down to remove them, will probably take off a little paint too. Next time I'm doing the Rapid Prep that pinballinreno talks about often. I think the last thing i used before spraying was a tack cloth, it probably had oils and paint from previous wipings. This stuff is sensitive to the most minute things.
[quoted image][quoted image]

I think you can sand out and drill out (by spinning a new exacto knife tip) those bubbles.

I use a gray 800 automotive sanding scrub pad with 1/2 teaspoon of dawn and 1qt filtered water. I spray off with rapid prep and dry out with naptha. On prior cleared playfields.

Carefully clean it all up so no white dust remains.

Dropper into the holes and do a light coat then a medium coat.

I think its very salvageable without aggressive sanding thru the paint.

A couple coats and sanding later the pits and bubbles will disappear.

#1717 1 year ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

Ever worry about sparks from the fan motor? Considering an explosion proof fan to ventilate my paint booth.

Not too worried as the concentrations from a 3-4 min spray are diluted greatly with fresh air intake.

The airborn paint is already catalyzed and solvents are super low.

Mostly it just protects my garage from overspray.

#1719 1 year ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

After you spray you use a torch and just work your way over the surface. Just like how they use it when doing epoxy work.
Video as an example.

Isnt urethane reducer extremely flammable?

Im intrigued to say the least.

I would like to see a vid of you doing this on a $1600 playfield

Automotive clear isnt the same as Art Resin or epoxy. Automotive P2K can be sanded in 1 hour if conditions are good.

I have had it "kick" in 10 mins in a hot garage.

#1722 1 year ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

I do it to all of the playfields I clear.

Wow, sounds like I want to try it!

Are you using spray max?

6 months later
#1773 12 months ago
Quoted from TopJimmyCooks:

Has anyone tried Car-Rep 2K?
amazon.com link »
They say it doesn't catalyze until it is actually sprayed out, so the can can be used multiple times. If it is good for playfields it would help me with my normal workflow: clean, 1 coat of stabilization clear - touch up for 2 weeks to 6 months and then top coat.

It says its an epoxy?

I wonder if epoxy is a durable as urethane.

I think for all the work involved, urethane is a better choice.

https://www.myperfectcolor.com/Epoxy-Paint-or-Urethane-Paint-Which-is-Better/34194.htm#:~:text=Epoxy%20coatings%20can%20also%20be,when%20exposed%20to%20UV%20light.

Urethane has better impact resistance and would be better suited for pinball.

#1775 12 months ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Where do you see epoxy? It says PU=polyurethane

In the link provided above, under the picture on the left, there are a row of pictures.

The 2nd one says epoxy. I dont actually know what that means other than its epoxy?

1 month later
#1780 10 months ago
Quoted from Barr993:

1st Spraymax attemp didn't go well...
I've been reading all the guidance on this thread and went for my 1st Spraymax experience for an EM lockdown coat this morning. Good weather, Stanley pop up spray booth, all the PPE, naphtha wipe, tack, warmed can, tape dam on can, 2 min shaken before and after mixing the parts, test spray on cardboard, light coat, 5 min flash, shaken, test spray, then heavier coat. Used about 1/2 can.
Thought it looked good so left it to dry and came back to lots of puddles, more towards where I was mostly standing. I assume the can was spitting but didn't see it when i was spraying? (Edit: just realized the spatters on the masking)
So, what did I miss?
And now what? Try to sand the puddles flat (sandpaper on a hard block?) without sanding through the low spots before repaints or something else?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image]

Warm the cans before using to get more pressure.

I put them in a bucket of hot tap water.

Press the button firmly, slowly releasing pressure as your hand gets tired will cause spatters.

Use regular spray can technique, do not start and stop over the work.
Start before the work, then stop when past the work.

Long even strokes 10" to 12" above the surface.

Flick drainage off of the can before each stroke.

Sand it all flat, you should be ok.

1 week later
2 weeks later
#1799 9 months ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

Every now and again I swear I get a bad can of this. I was on what I hoped was the final coat on my Space Mission restoration, and I got a nozzle that started spitting large droplets all over.
I wasn't able to do 2 nice even coats to finish up as I had planned, and had to do a heavy flood to try and compensate for the large drops that were being flung. It also created a bunch of tiny bubbles that will turn into pin holes, so it'll need to be sanded and get another coat now.

Did you put the can in hot water to warm it up?

Extra pressure really helps.

It could be a bad spray cap?

3 weeks later
#1810 8 months ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

I don’t see the point in 2PAC on a back glass over triple thick. Triple trick is safer, easier and faster (only needs 1 coat), does a great job, and a lot cheaper.
2PAC on a back glass seems like an instance of solution in search of a problem to solve.

Plus you cant pour it onto badly damaged artwork.

3 weeks later
#1814 7 months ago
Quoted from jazc4:

Excellent job

Thanks, I re-did a TAF CPR "gold" last week.
It was TERRIBLE lol..

#1816 7 months ago
Quoted from jazc4:

They can't all be perfect

The only "Perfect" NOS playfields I have ever bought were from Buthamburg.

They call them "Perfect Playfields" and they are.

https://www.buthamburg.de/en/playfields

#1821 7 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Diamond clear.

I have to agree.

Diamond Clear is the new SprayMax without the need for a booth etc.

I just used it to repair chipped clear. It works perfectly for clear coat repairs and bonds to pretty much ANY automotive clear.

I does take a few days to dry.

1 week later
#1848 7 months ago
Quoted from jazc4:

I've done most in a booth but I did one outside and it went fine. It helped that it was not windy at all. I was sure to sand it and look for trash or defects in between each session. I sprayed a can a day for 4 days on it.

If you can get the 1st and second coat down, relatively trash free, everything sands down quite well.

1 month later
#1862 6 months ago
Quoted from vipe155:

So I've tried to digest the advice here and make a plan for how I would lay down some clear before starting touchups on one playfield. Considering the complexity of using this stuff and amount of reading you need to do, I can only imagine how many people have just used this stuff like it's regular spraypaint.
If I'm reading this correctly, if I spray outside in a PVC pipe "spraybooth" wearing a full mask, new 3M 60291 cartridges, Tyvek suit, etc. and I only use the cartridges for a couple of coats in less than 30 minutes that would be safe? What gloves should I wear? Rubber or nitrile?
Also, what precautions do you need to take when sanding this stuff flat later (maybe I missed this somewhere)?

Cartridges are good for 40 hours of exposure tp P2K.
Nitrile gloves work really well.

5 months later
#1908 14 days ago
Quoted from PinballBillinFL:

A bit late for this discussion, but looking for thoughts here. Is it better to spray first, then dropper fill the inserts with this product, or try to fill them first, then spray? Consensus seems to be that trying to spray into a jar and then use a dropper from that is a non-starter due to bubbles forming in the spray.

This is a good clear for droppers at a good price:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NCT9B71/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 70.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RobTune
 
4,800 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Evansville, IN
$ 65.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
arcade-cabinets.com
 
$ 69.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
 
$ 72.50
$ 89.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
From: $ 100.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
 
$ 1,059.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 18.95
$ 1,159.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
4,300
Machine - For Sale
Fairfax, VA
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 15.00
Hardware
Volcano Pinball
 
$ 19.00
Boards
Tilted Pinball
 
From: € 15.00
Lighting - Led
TheDudeMods
 
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
From: $ 3.50
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 89.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 54.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 10.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 35.00
Playfield - Plastics
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
1,800
Machine - For Sale
Cape Coral, FL
5,000 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Vandalia, OH
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Decals
Bent Mods
 

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider pinballinreno.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-spraymax-2k-auto-clear-in-a-can-club?tu=pinballinreno and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.