(Topic ID: 109931)

The SprayMax 2K Auto Clear in a Can Club!

By Curbfeeler

9 years ago


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#144 8 years ago
Quoted from erichill:

Obviously, I'd be foolish to think they'd accept liability if I hurt myself.
I too did a lot of research before diving into this and completely agree that the safest route would be to use a supplied air system instead of purification. But based on my research, talking to painters in town, and talking to the people at the shop, I was told that using an organic vapor filter in combination with a particulate filter provides adequate purification of isocyanates. The most important thing however is to observe the change out schedule for the filter cartridges and to keep them in an air tight container when not in use. Once they near end of life, they're no longer protecting you.
Digging through some old emails, here are some of the tech docs I found:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/603272O/respirator-selection-for-diisocyanates.pdf
http://www.grainger.com/content/qt-233-isocyanate
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/777847O/isocyanates-3m-techupdate.pdf

Those references were very helpful and line up with my own research into the topic. The key point in the last reference is the protection used should reduce exposure from being above a safe level to something below the safe level. The OSHA practice of only recommending the equipment that reduces it the most is not entirely valid. In this case a full face pressure fed respirator is obviously better than a cartridge mask. It does not mean that the cartridge mask is inadequate, its just not as good.

1 year later
#272 7 years ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

I hope I didn't miss this someplace, but has anyone compared the 2K Glamour Clear to the 2K Rapid Clear?
In the spec sheet it says the 2K Rapid Clear will dry in 1.5 hours (and if using a heat lamp can be sanded after 10 minutes) where as the 2K Glamour takes 12 hours. It also says that 2K Rapid Clear is Urethane-based so, I don't know if that means it would tend to yellow over time (still a novice with this stuff)?
Anyway, just curious if anyone has messed with both of them for a comparison..
Cheers!

All modern 2PACs are Urethane based. The Poly urethanes that are much safer to use are the ones that tend to yellow. That being said, the new ones that specifically say they are UV resistant really do not yellow much that I can see. The oil based traditional ones even say on the label now that they 'amber' over time. Overall clarity of 2PAC is still better and it is tougher.

10 months later
#458 6 years ago

I saw HEPs comments on dry sanding too, but I have no idea what he is talking about saying dry sanding has improved so much there is no need for wet sanding. Anyone know what he is talking about?

6 months later
#564 6 years ago

Try rubbing it between your fingers, is the cutting grit obvious? It may be using a progressive grit that crumbles up and becomes finer emulating multiple sanding steps.

1 year later
#743 4 years ago

I think that is normal die-back that happens during the longer term cure. I think all polyurethane clears will do it. I am not fully aware of what is actually the cause.

#747 4 years ago

I think 30 days is most of the movement. Would like to know what the cause really is. How does clear know it is on an insert. But definitely, thinner coats suffer from it less.

#749 4 years ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

I think its the lamp heat build up that might accelerate it and make it more prominent in those areas. Like i noticed the lamps that are almost never on dont have the die-back yet.

My experience is with an unpopulated playfield standing up against a wall, and it did it.

4 weeks later
#828 4 years ago

I had obtained the KBS product SDS a few years ago and concluded nearly the same as you guys here. It left me wondering that if KBS wants full protection for spraying it but not rolling it. Why not roll on regular 2PAC, probably the same risks. Makes me wonder if KBS is actually different in any way.

4 months later
#945 4 years ago

It will sand out fine, you can definitely polish it up without needing any more on top. However a light additional coat after sanding might be faster than running up through all the grits and then polishing a wheel.

9 months later
#1064 3 years ago
Quoted from wayinla:

It’s a very tough time and I completely understand the trouble that doctors and first responders are having with the supply and demand for respirators.
I have decided and already purchased a full face swim mask and a tyvek clean suit from Amazon. I will connect a long breathing tube to the mask and the open end will be located outside my spraying tent. The total for the mask and suit is about $40.
I don’t plan on staying in the spraying tent very long. I got the idea from a video showing a doctor who made his own respirator using a full face swim mask. He was able to attach a filter to it using a 3D printed adapter. I hope everyone is safe!

Per Wikipedia, typical breath volume is only 0.5 litres (smaller than I was expecting). If you are breathing through a 1 in (25 mm) tube, your breath only make it about 1 meter (3 feet). So if your tube is longer you are only rebreathing the same air over and over. If you have a one way valve so you are only pulling in air from the tube and exhaling locally this would work.

#1070 3 years ago

Google translate app on your phone can translate using the camera.

7 months later
#1167 3 years ago

Looks great, for the sandpaper was that hand sanded, wet or dry, or using a machine?

1 week later
#1185 3 years ago

While I am sure this product will work as advertised, be careful with the choice of air compressor. A shop compressor is definitely not rated for human breathing in terms of cleanliness. The biggest issue would be an oil lubricated compressor, you are dependent on the filter removing nasty oil vapours. An oil-less compressor will eject particulate matter for the most part that should be easier for a filter to remove.

#1205 3 years ago
Quoted from durgee7:

Update to this post: Just received an email from Harbor Freight advertising al their oil-free compressors. Either I'm more aware of the terminology or they're spying on my data.
Thanks!
Fyi for everyone - The attached compressor is what I was planning to use. If you all think this is an unsafe compressor for air supply purposes, please share your thoughts. From previous conversation, there was mention of an oil free air compressor.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Just look up the manual online for any compressor, even old ones, you will definitely find a warning about using it as an air supply. There is this style of respirator. It uses a more simple turbine style compressor, more like a big shop vac motor to feed the mask. No particulate or oil issues.

https://axispro.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=4

#1214 3 years ago

Honestly I would be okay with the aliexpress unit. Why? Because it is deterministic whether or not it is working, you get positive airflow or not. There is no dependence on filtering which you have to trust to work. Keep the pump upwind of your work area. If the unit failed while using it you will know and you can just stop and exit the paint area.

I don't subscribe to the 'its quick and easy so can't really harm you' theory. Its also super quick to drink gasoline, but I know not to.

5 months later
#1335 2 years ago

I restored an EightBall about 4 years ago where the graphics were process ink printed onto the playfield. I was worried about 2PAC reacting with it so I protected it with Varathane, then used 2PAC (not Sparaymax). No issues at all, just a light sanding then sprayed it on.

1 week later
#1405 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

how long ago was that? I recently went to a different Sherwin Williams in Kanata and they did not have it and they told me they cannot get it. Could be just that store/management?

Probably 2 years now. The Clyde Ave. store is more of a commercial outlet.

6 months later
#1561 2 years ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

Sprayed my first can of Spraymax 2k today. Outdoors Breathe-Cool PPE (https://www.turbineproducts.com/brands/Breathe%252dCool.html). Hood was pressurized but when I sprayed I could still catch a whiff of the stuff - kinda sweetish smelling. semicolin, is there a test to make sure I'm safe? I don't want to spray again until I know I'm not breathing this stuff. I didn't get the supplied air hood to get halfway protected.

Any chance the turbine intake was picking up the over spray from the Spraymax 2K? That is my worry with those systems is the inlet is grabbing whatever is around it.

1 month later
#1580 1 year ago

It is hard to tell from the photos but that sure looks like too light a coat. It did not flow out since there was not enough clear. I assume the drops look more normal?

1 month later
#1619 1 year ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

My between-coat sanding is 1000 grit with a random orbital set low and just the weight of the sander. Seems to work well.
Previously I was wet-sanding by hand, not sure which is better but using the RO is quick and clean.
Final will be wet sanding by hand through 3000 grit then polish.
Here’s what it looks like (haven’t naphtha yet) after the first can, this is a brand new playfield I made from scratch. Feedback and advise welcome, it is smoother than it looks. Not sure if this will be a 2 or 3 can job.
[quoted image]

I would suggest doing a little more of a coat to let it flow out for the next coat. The lower right corner looks like it could use some more of a coating. The interior parts look more like the wood grain. I did something similar, sanded an Eight Ball playfield down to bare wood, replaced the inserts and wet sanded all of them before bonding them in place. I had a different process, I started on the bare wood with clear UV proof Varathane, then process printed my own art work onto the playfield. So by the time I had to do the clear the grain structure was already smoothed out. You will want to dig into those crevices to roughen them. It will probably take two more coats minimum but it will look great.

1 month later
#1669 1 year ago
Quoted from jazc4:

Where would you suggest I start to learn vector graphics?

I second the use of InkScape. I did my Eight Ball as a complete redraw using scans and photos. In InkScape you can import photos into one layer, and then draw in another layer on top. Just keep building up small pieces at time layer by layer. You can use various InkScape tools to punch through the graphics and when printed the wood is there instead. I probably had 50 layers. My artwork is the finished product, not templates for stencils. Zoom in on the 5 ball, I even mimicked the half-tone of the original. I actually sanded this to bare wood, replaced all inserts, used water based Varathane spray to seal the wood then took the playfield to a flat bed printer place to print directly onto the wood. Then I went to a local body shop and had them clear coat it.

Before the printing stage I sent smaller scale test print files to the print place with colour tiles all over the playfield art. I selected the best fit colour matches then updated my master. InkScape lets you select master colours that when you change them the artwork all updates at one time for that colour.

Very geometric playfield art can be helped with CAD tools as well. Check out FreeCAD and use the sketching tools normally used for making a machined part to draw your geometry. Why do this? Because you can use constraints on your lines and assign lengths, angles, radii, etc and adjust as needed until it is correct. InkScape has nothing like that. It is more freeform drawing, manually moving vertices. The measuring tool is a bit clumsy. I found a utility that lets me set a Windows PC window to 50% visibility. I drew my CAD lines right over a photo in a window behind, export as DXF, InkScape can read in DXF. The scale would be wrong but InkScape can accurately scale the line drawing. Sped up a lot of features in the artwork.
20160322_005521794_iOS (resized).jpg20160322_005521794_iOS (resized).jpg20160322_005530065_iOS (resized).jpg20160322_005530065_iOS (resized).jpg

2 months later
#1741 1 year ago

A question about your side rails. Does the ball ever thump into them anywhere on the playfield? On my Eight Ball I did something similar to you for the side rails using regular spray paint. It does not hold up to ball contact at all well. I found using a topcoat of spray Varathane made all the difference in durability. In your case you can just use more SprayMax which be even better.

#1743 1 year ago

I was surprised how quickly damage showed up in my case, the outlanes are the same as yours. You could put mylar on the vertical surface in that area as an alternative.

#1754 1 year ago

Early on in my pinball hobby I bought an old Bally with very hazy original mylar. I did not really find much info on people polishing mylar, all topics were about polishing clear. I have an old air powered 6" DA and tried a bunch of things including Novus. Polishing soft mylar may be quite different than an actual clear coat. In the end I found Novus 3 is barely any coarser than Novus2. My favourite compound is a 3M marine boat polish. It is actually a cutting compound but seems to be a progressive grit. In one go it progressed through multiple grades and did a great job. Pin_Fandango is more to be listened to for polishing actual clear but wanted to bring up mylar in case others want to try it, you don't have to remove it.

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