thanks,

polishing is not that complicated, but knowing the basics and breaking it down to simple principles is what you need you understand, once you do, then it is not anymore about removing scratches but about material removal.

The grit in the compound makes cuts and swirls, hundreds and hundred of this fine swirls will eventually all match up and make the surface flat. Polishing is like a very fine sanding process that can happen in many different ways depending on the tool you use (rotary, dual action, by hand).
a rotary polisher only rotates in circles and heats up the paint really fast, in the wring hands it will cut through clear quickly specially when polishing an angle.

The DA is like a rotary, but slower and while it also rotates in a circular motion it also does it randomly (although always on the same randomness) and this helps in keeping the heat down, it is easier to polish and renders often times, better results than a rotary (if the rotary is used wrong can left ghosting behind).

The DA is slower, A LOT slower and will take a 30-40 session to polish a PF done at 3000 grit.

when you are polishing you are basically sanding again but this time things are getting flattened, this gives you the clarity to see through the clear coat again.

For those of you worried about burning the clear, the DA is the best. You really have to be a bonehead to burn the paint. The rotary is very safe here too considering the surface is flat so if you keep you hand steady and fast, and check for heat you will be ok. I would personally use the rotary now.

Pads and chemicals needed:

here is where the art is at. You want to combine these 2 according to the type of clear you cutting. The aggressiveness of this combo will determine everything els
your cutting time and material removed and final results (clarity). The clarity will only be as good as your chemical used, if the chemical can only break down to 1000 grit or 2000 grit or else. I think optimum renders 6000 grit at the end of the polishing cycle and starts at about 1200.

The goal is: remove the absolute minimal paint and obtain 98% clarity (you will never know when 100% is reached) but once you are happy you stop.
Happy for me is: no more swirls, the surface is perfect. There are no visible scratches.

If you had a metal substrate you can measure your paint thickness before and after, but since we work with wood you can't. You don to know how much material you are removing here, but in my experience, with a DA, the removal is negligible.

There isn't a fast rule to know what combo of liquid and or paste and pad you need to use, so you will have to try it.
Once you polish the paint and measure your time/results you will know whether you are cutting too fast or too slow.

That said...
For a PF already sanded up to 3000 or 5000 (or any number after 1000 grit) you do not want to use compound. Compound is used for old paint that has been exposed to the elements, bird dropping and has TOO many imperfections so you want to give yourself a good base to polish off. You would otherwise polish all the imperfections to 100% clarity, but the imperfections would remain and the scratches would still be visible. You would end up with a really good clarity but a lot of light swirls and bird droppings would be actually popping out as well (we are talking paint on cars here, therefore the paint droppings example

So, for your PF, once you have sanded it and it is evenly sanded (this step is crucial) you proceed to use POLISH (not compound).
You then tried your softest pad and give it a whirl. Are you on DA? criss cross pattern, you move really slow with a DA and I mean this, less than 5 inches in a 1 thousand -2 thousand - 3 thousand rhythm, If you are going faster than this, flash news: you will be polishing that surface for an eternity. The DA needs a little time to work the surface, go slower than your think you should, keep moving.

You do a criss cross pattern, overlapping all passes, up down left to right, about 6 times. You then measure your results. Are you progressing?
If ou are not progressing, then the pad is wrong (too soft). Get a new pad that is harder.
Try again. One you figure out your pad then you do not have to do this again unless you change your clear coat.

Simple.

Rotary is the same except that you move a lot faster, you do not stay on the same spot and the motion is steady and medium-fast depending on the pad you use.
Anything wool= MOVE FAST.
anything that is foam is very very very approachable. Use foam.

Whether you use a DA or rotary, do no use your body weight to polish the surface, you only use your hands to keep the polisher FLAT. You are not pushing it into the paint, if you are, then the PAD is wrong. your hand weight is just enough to keep it flat.

How do I know how much pressure? this is simple, flat is flat, if the pad is deforming outward you are pushing it in. If the polisher is walking aways then it is not flat. you will figure this out quickly.
You want the pad to work with you and not work for the pad.

Polishing is really rewarding when done right because your realize the potential the paint had once it achieves its clarity to the max. In the case of paints with pearls is really nice to see those shine again, and a good polished clear returns the true paint colours that are otherwise hidden behind an opaque lens (clear with a poor clarity or swirled up).

These are things that I have done to my own vehicles, and clients vehicles while fixing the paint before installing other paint protectants. Merely as a hobby that it eventually turned into a business, lol like most of the hobbies I enter into. Apparently it is an ADHD thing I have been told. I am no longer in the detailing world because I have other priorities and my only hobby is pinball, lol so there is that. But it was nice to use these skills into this hobby.

Last, but not least:

your polish liquid/cream. the clarity you achieve will be determined by this product. Novus will never have the clarity of any clear polishing product because it just can't, it is probably 1000 grit max.

Might as well use any polish, but if you only have Novus go ahead, use it. It will polish, just do not expect it to be amazingly shiny and if it is, congratulations, your prep work PRIOR to novud paid off. anything would have polished that surface the same, including water.

The polish cream I recommended earlier is exceptionally good and easy to work with. It is my go to always.
3m product is also excellent, but to get good THE BEST results you need to go through the 3 steps or it otherwise won't get you the results you want. The optimum cream breaks down as you polish and it does everything in 1 step unlike the 3m product. Optimum is cheaper and perfect for this application.

Anything is better than Novus, please stop using it. lol

Novus 2 is a excellent product to use as one of the polishing stages, its not the best for the last stage as its still too course. I finish off with a 3 stage automotive polish after the Novus 2.

It is likely acting as a compound, in which case you are good to use just a proper compound that will render better results imho.

Early on in my pinball hobby I bought an old Bally with very hazy original mylar. I did not really find much info on people polishing mylar, all topics were about polishing clear. I have an old air powered 6" DA and tried a bunch of things including Novus. Polishing soft mylar may be quite different than an actual clear coat. In the end I found Novus 3 is barely any coarser than Novus2. My favourite compound is a 3M marine boat polish. It is actually a cutting compound but seems to be a progressive grit. In one go it progressed through multiple grades and did a great job. Pin_Fandango is more to be listened to for polishing actual clear but wanted to bring up mylar in case others want to try it, you don't have to remove it.

I'd be very interested in learning more about getting a hazy mylar back to as close to new as possible. Any tips or step by step process would be greatly appreciated.

same principle I explained just a few posts back. the benefit of polishing plastic is that you can polish it for an eternity and you will never cut through.

I have a Time Machine the former owner polished the mylar covered playfield and you would be astounded on how shiny it is.

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I read your detailed post above so thank you for that.

So to be clear, sorry for being thick...just a bit timid, first time virgin at this level of bringing a dirty playfield back to life. When it comes to polishing hazy mylar, Optimum would be a great product to use with a 3inch pad and hand drill??? My playfield isn't totally stripped is why I'm not using a DA on it. I'll never be at the level to do a total strip down, fix paint, level inserts...etc, then clear coat. Just want to get an old girl as pretty as possible without taking her to a professional salon.

WOW

Yep! You can get mylar super shiny.

I never remove mylar - unless I have to for some reason.

Just strip the playfield down and buff it up as per the post above.

I use the 3 stage 3M products (we don’t have the one he mentions) … just work through the stages with the buffer and she comes up great! Slow and steady wins the race!

Even a drill buffer with foam pads works well … I started with the Treasure Cove kit years ago, that was a drill buffer, foam pads and 3 stages of cutting compounds (said to be repackaged 3M stuff)

Just be wary of any damaged mylar - the buffer can rip it up. Don’t ask me how I know! But in saying that, that’s happened once in probably 30-40 mylar polish up jobs.

rd

Thanks for that update. By chance do you happen to know what the grits where in that kit?

The Meguiars G3500 is a very good alternative to a standalone dual action unit. For $50, you attach it to your cordless drill. The compound/polishing/waxing pads will cost another $50. Just finished a Spaymax clearcoated playfield with it. Took out all the fine scratches with ease. And just so much cheaper than a standalone unit. The compounding pads are thick and resistant to tearing up, which is nice when using on a playfield because of all the bulb holes that pads sink into and shred apart.

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https://www.treasurecovepinball.com/polishing-kit.htm

Here’s the kits! A blast from the past!

I did heeeeeaps of playfield restores with this kit back in the day!

They haven’t sold them for years, since Allan passed away.

I believe the 3,2,1 polish was just repackaged 3M super cut polishes - they have the same numbers from memory.

rd

This is what I use for regular maintenance.
Super convenient

Why do you have both a standalone DA and this DA drill attachment?

Thank you and Pin_Fandango for the advice. Great website for tips to, much appreciated.

This little is great for regular maintenance and cleaning. I often take the bottom section off and polish with this.
This attachment is perfect for this.

The da does not fit.

The da comes out if I need to polish a pf p it side the game

But the Meguiar's unit replaces the standalone unit entirely. Cordless portability and small form factor is a benefit. Standalone unit probably better for doing vehicles on a regular basis.

Wow, this is great info thank you. I see a lot of mistakes I’ve been making. I think I also see why I was having such mediocre results trying to work acrylic speaker panels with a DA… was moving way too fast.

One question… When you say “a harder pad”, what would that be if you’re using foam already? Like if I try the optimum polish, what’s a good foam pad to start with? Or is there some set of pads on Amazon that are good to start with?

Pads come in different colours just as guide. They have different rigidness to them, the more rigid the more aggressive it is.
whenever you are searching for the Polish/Pad combo to find your cut, only change one element at the time (unless yo were totally off at first) but the rule of thumb is the least aggressive method first (to remove less clear, because you only have so much of it until there is none).
So always have 2 or 3 different foam pads, these are always found in detailing shops. You have to shop at a professional detailing shop, do not expect to find this at walker nor Home Depot, these things do not exist there. These pads are specifically made for detailing expensive cars.
that said amazon might have some but often times a good detailing shop (if you go down the rabbit hole of detailing you can go nuts, lol) they will have everything you need.

Detail shop… ok didn’t even know that was a thing. Don’t see much local yet, but I found some online places.

https://www.detailing.com/store/
https://www.detailking.com/

Still some big sales going on too.

Has anyone tried Car-Rep 2K?
https://www.amazon.com/Car-Rep%C2%AE-Clear-Coat-400ml-Gloss/dp/B08WPFM6KK/ref=sr_1_1

They say it doesn't catalyze until it is actually sprayed out, so the can can be used multiple times. If it is good for playfields it would help me with my normal workflow: clean, 1 coat of stabilization clear - touch up for 2 weeks to 6 months and then top coat.

It says its an epoxy?

I wonder if epoxy is a durable as urethane.

I think for all the work involved, urethane is a better choice.

https://www.myperfectcolor.com/Epoxy-Paint-or-Urethane-Paint-Which-is-Better/34194.htm#:~:text=Epoxy%20coatings%20can%20also%20be,when%20exposed%20to%20UV%20light.

Urethane has better impact resistance and would be better suited for pinball.

Where do you see epoxy? It says PU=polyurethane

In the link provided above, under the picture on the left, there are a row of pictures.

The 2nd one says epoxy. I dont actually know what that means other than its epoxy?

Car-Rep has a bunch of different paint and clear products. The one I was referring to was the 2 part catalyzed polyurethane. Amazon product B08WPFM6KK.

I think that is for their paint or primer.

I usually empty a can of SprayMax; if all else is equal this would be more convenient.

1st Spraymax attemp didn't go well...

I've been reading all the guidance on this thread and went for my 1st Spraymax experience for an EM lockdown coat this morning. Good weather, Stanley pop up spray booth, all the PPE, naphtha wipe, tack, warmed can, tape dam on can, 2 min shaken before and after mixing the parts, test spray on cardboard, light coat, 5 min flash, shaken, test spray, then heavier coat. Used about 1/2 can.

Thought it looked good so left it to dry and came back to lots of puddles, more towards where I was mostly standing. I assume the can was spitting but didn't see it when i was spraying? (Edit: just realized the spatters on the masking)

So, what did I miss?

And now what? Try to sand the puddles flat (sandpaper on a hard block?) without sanding through the low spots before repaints or something else?
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Your finger might have been hovering over the spray path when pressing down on the nozzle, and causing droplets?

Warm the cans before using to get more pressure.

I put them in a bucket of hot tap water.

Press the button firmly, slowly releasing pressure as your hand gets tired will cause spatters.

Use regular spray can technique, do not start and stop over the work.
Start before the work, then stop when past the work.

Long even strokes 10" to 12" above the surface.

Flick drainage off of the can before each stroke.

Sand it all flat, you should be ok.

At this stage I don't think this a big deal or disaster at all. Flatten any really high spots. I wouldn't bother chasing a flat surface yet. Scuff everything up, then drip clear everywhere low. It will take forever because of all the planking. Once the drips set up then recoat and sand flat with 400 grit. Hopefully that will give you a nice paint surface. I wouldn't do any paint work until that planking is flat. It will give you trouble.

Don’t worry you have to sand and recoat anyway. After my 3rd playfield I realized the first can doesn’t matter. Tomorrow block sand it with 600 grit (or 400 if you want like said above) and do another can or 2 and repeat that process until you’re happy. This stuff is fool proof and to have a perfect finish on the first spray is unrealistic.

Thanks for all of the responses. I did warm the can and start/stopped off the playfield but was not focusing on my finger pressure or flicking so maybe one of those was it.

I'm glad to hear the drops are not a big deal at this point but I never thought about filling in the missing paint/planking. That will take forever! Thanks for the heads up on that 'cause I would have went straight to repainting.

Trying to get this in before the hot/humid weather hits.

I'm sure this is mentioned elsewhere, but you can save yourself some misery and get some Shopline 661 clear and hardener for the drips. Mix up a little bit and use a glass eyedropper. Easier to clean up and cheaper than activating a can of Spraymax. Trying to spray from a can into a container is messy and a hassle. The 661 and Spraymax are compatible with each other. I have mixed them fine on projects.

I'm going to make it hard on myself and spray into a cup tomorrow!

I get dripping in clear in confined areas but any hints on the areas next to saucers without it running into the saucer?

20230610_143021 (resized).jpg

You could drip out a very thin perimeter of clear around the hole and let it start to flash off while you're doing other areas. Then come back to that area and you should have a little dam l to keep it out of that area.

You can use the tip of your eyedropper to drag a thick drop where you want and thin it out so it is easier to sand flat.

Ok I'll try that, thanks.

Well my next attempt was a shit show mostly due to wind kicking up as soon as I started spraying. And I learned the hard way about dripping bubbles lol.

I'm mostly recovered now but didn't make much progress with filing in the planking paint loss. There are varying sized areas and I can't see dripping/dragging all of them. Is dripping clear then squeegee'ing a possibility?

And can I do a drip session by itself, sand then go to repaint or does a drip always have to go with a spray to even everything out?

20230616_120419 (resized).jpg

Sorry to hear about the headaches. I had a lot of bubbles to wrangle with when I sprayed Spraymax into a cup. None of that by using Shopline and mixing in a cup. I don't know about squeegeeing. Whatever method you can use to get things flattened out faster than spraying a half dozen coats to even out the planking. Flooding a whole area by pouring from a cup is a possibility.

You don't need to spray a whole coat over drips. I've filled a few low spots after my final coat by dripping a bit, then sanding and polishing. Just make sure your surface is scuffed.

I assume you will be repainting the entire thing. What I did is skim the entire area with bondo and sand it flat with the orbital.

My next filing attempt will definitely be Shopline
or something similar. And I have an in-garage pvc/plastic booth that I'll fab up a duct and additional fan to get the fumes outside the garage. That way I can focus on the clearing and not the wind trying to crush the pop-up paint tent.

Yes this will be pretty much a complete repaint. Bondo sounds like a good idea but I'm worried about it adhering to the small low spots in the clear that I can't scuff up at this point. I suppose there's the same kind of risk with clear going forward though.

Btw, Flipper_McGavin was right about the sputters.

My 2nd can was sputtering on the first test spray on cardboard. I was like what the hell another bad can then realized there was loose glove hanging off my finger tip. Sprayed well after that was fixed!

Remember to be super careful, there are several posts in this thread about how nasty the spray is-search for “brain damage”, OV+N95 is not enough, wear a full suit with supplied air

Flipper_McGavin has done some beautiful work!

I thought the consensus was ov/95 cartridges could be used once per session/can and supplied air is a more economical option if doing many sessions?

I used Spraymax on both of these.

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actually not true, i bought some 2 yrs ago.

Every now and again I swear I get a bad can of this. I was on what I hoped was the final coat on my Space Mission restoration, and I got a nozzle that started spitting large droplets all over.

I wasn't able to do 2 nice even coats to finish up as I had planned, and had to do a heavy flood to try and compensate for the large drops that were being flung. It also created a bunch of tiny bubbles that will turn into pin holes, so it'll need to be sanded and get another coat now.

Did you put the can in hot water to warm it up?

Extra pressure really helps.

It could be a bad spray cap?

I did put it in hot water beforehand. Pretty sure it was a bad spray nozzle.

2 new cans showing up tomorrow so hopefully I can get that final coat on.