I can't find the post now but someone mentioned that they found a "regular" spray can clear that was compatible with spraymax and could be used for the initial coatings to lock down artwork and between deferent touch up colors before coating everything with spraymax. I would like to go this route if possible as I would often not be able to return to doing any touchup work for several weeks and the mixed spraymax product would not be usable at that time. Does anyone use another clear product in this way?

Just got two cans from Amazon.
Is this out of date or
Is this the born on date.
Thx

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Found my answer.

It's the born on date.

I have had cans for 4 years and they had no issues when i used them .

Finished my buddies flash playfield.

3 cans.spraymax.

Filled inserts with old school 2part clear.

Used orbital sander with 800 and then 1000 dry . Never tried this before but it helped move the process along faster.

Then 1200 1500 and then 2000 wetsand.

Meguiars ult compound and then meguiars polish.

Waxed and buffed
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Thinking about investing in full mask forced air system.
Tired of holding breath with hf respirator.

Any suggestions for a solid system appreciated.

I'm restoring a Bally Playboy and I'm using rattle cans for the paint (stencils and base coat).
I'd like to use SprayMax 2K clear over the top, but I don't want to have it react badly with the rattle can paint.
Has anyone here used this over rattle can paint before?

Yes, I had no problem at all.

Your mileage may vary of course.

I’ll be doing the same thing soon with my cabinet. I think consensus is so a very light mist coat first and wait 15. Then continue with heavier coats.

So I've finally got my playfield cleared with 2K in can. Sanded and buffed. Just wondering about waxing and repopulating.

Right now its been three weeks since final clear and buffing etc. Do you apply wax? What kind do you recommend these days?

Wax before repopulating playfield (wooden rails etc)? How long should I wait before putting down wax and populating? I've been reading all kinds of dates from from 4 days, to 6 weeks to months....not really sure how long to wait to be honest.
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Thanks! A lot of work and learning curve but enjoyed doing it. Also, created full vector graphic to scale of the playfield. So if I ever just want to do a printout/overlay that's an option.

Learning vector graphics and color mixing I think was the hardest parts. Now I just got to figure out what to do wax wise and time frame to start putting everything back on it.

I wax the playfield once I can no longer make an impression into the clearcoat with my fingernail which takes several weeks. 4 days does seem a little too early and it probably hampers the clearcoat from curing at its normal rate.

Download Inkscape, have a scan on hand, and start playing with Bézier curves to recreate it.

Learn how layers work (put scans in one layer, each colour in another layer). Use layer opacity to help you when redrawing (i.e., make your drawing layer somewhat transparent so the scan shows through as you redraw on top of it).

For simple artwork drawing the curves yourself is viable.

For complex stuff, I bought the Wacom Intuos tablet and redrew using that. For example, most of the baseball player was redrawn using the tablet.

The main reason to use a vector program (as opposed to say Photoshop) is if you are going to use a vinyl cutter to cut paint masks. Then it needs those vectors to make the cuts.

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Get inkscape or vectornator and and start with a graphic layer you want to trace/redo. Learn how to use the ink/pen tools etc. to make curves, how to take two layers and merge them into another to create the graphic you want.

When ever I was stuck google was my friend. SVG files are by far the best way create perfectly sized graphics without quality loss on scaling. Some of the things I found odd was trying to copy & paste a section of scanned graphic. I usually just dump the image into another graphics program and cut the part I want to work on. Then save that into a bottom layer within the vector software. Work from the bottom up I guess you call it.

Once you get an understanding of it. Its really not to hard just a lot tools to remember.

Looks great but you got some serious die back going on around the inserts. How long did you let it sit between coats and how long did you wait until you did the final polish ?

Youve waited 3 weeks and now you can see the die back forming. It probably started showing at 10 days.

Time to clean it off sand it with 800, fill the insert crevices and re-spray it.

Wait 10 weeks before waxing and repopulating.

I second the use of InkScape. I did my Eight Ball as a complete redraw using scans and photos. In InkScape you can import photos into one layer, and then draw in another layer on top. Just keep building up small pieces at time layer by layer. You can use various InkScape tools to punch through the graphics and when printed the wood is there instead. I probably had 50 layers. My artwork is the finished product, not templates for stencils. Zoom in on the 5 ball, I even mimicked the half-tone of the original. I actually sanded this to bare wood, replaced all inserts, used water based Varathane spray to seal the wood then took the playfield to a flat bed printer place to print directly onto the wood. Then I went to a local body shop and had them clear coat it.

Before the printing stage I sent smaller scale test print files to the print place with colour tiles all over the playfield art. I selected the best fit colour matches then updated my master. InkScape lets you select master colours that when you change them the artwork all updates at one time for that colour.

Very geometric playfield art can be helped with CAD tools as well. Check out FreeCAD and use the sketching tools normally used for making a machined part to draw your geometry. Why do this? Because you can use constraints on your lines and assign lengths, angles, radii, etc and adjust as needed until it is correct. InkScape has nothing like that. It is more freeform drawing, manually moving vertices. The measuring tool is a bit clumsy. I found a utility that lets me set a Windows PC window to 50% visibility. I drew my CAD lines right over a photo in a window behind, export as DXF, InkScape can read in DXF. The scale would be wrong but InkScape can accurately scale the line drawing. Sped up a lot of features in the artwork.
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Hmmm....What am I looking for in the die back? The playfield has been fully sanded and buffed smooth and ready for repopulation of components. Has been that way for 3 weeks with no change that I can see. Is there something else I'm looking for before waxing? Boy I hope I don't have to clearcoat again and re-level/buff before waxing. Essentially redo everything I just done over the past few months.

Sort of confused here now as I thought processes sanding flat between coats of clear then doing the final steps on the last coat. I could wait and buff and wax.

Does the clear do something with the level surface after 3/4 weeks that I need to do it over again? I don't want to start populating everything only to have to take it apart and redo.

Thanks for the info though as I was getting ready to prep the surface for parts and glad I didn't until I can find out what look for.

From my experience, the finish will begin to develope a slight orangepeel texture. I blocksanded mine weeks after I noticed this and it stayed rather smooth.

You don't "have" to do anything but,

The dents at the edges of the inserts are pronounced now.

You will find other areas too.

And they will get worse in a few weeks.

Clear coat loses haff or more if its thickness in 12 to 16 weeks.

Things start showing up. Dents appear where there were none.

It doesnt fill very well.

This is why we keep building up problem areas like insert egdes.

It best to address this now and not regret it in 36 weeks.

I do a final sand and buff at 12 weeks to level out the playfield as best as one can.

A lot of the die back has happened by then and can be sanded out mostly.

However, its a pinball game!

It will get torn up anyways if you play it a lot.

So, in the end, it may not matter at all.

Ok I had no idea this would happen over such a long duration. I'll let it sit for a another month or two and see how goes. Hopefully it won't be to bad and I can sand it out if pronounced.

I used 3 full cans. After the the first I sanded as flat as one could. Waited a month or so and sprayed the second. Sanded flat again and a week after that sprayed the third. About 3 days after that started sanded flat and over a week or so worked it through the various grits up to 3000 and then Novus 2. So right now its been sitting for about 3/4 weeks since that final coat.

Thanks pinballinreno

with the clearcoat I use, I tell all my customers do not wax for 90 days, or at all. Wax seals in the clear and doesn't allow it to breathe. Can cause issues if you wax too early. Let it breathe. Do you really need wax on a field that's cleared? You will never burn through that clear in a home environment.

Yes that was the other thing I was wondering about. I thought the whole point of clear was to protect the field and not have to wax it. However, everywhere I read mentions waxing as it protects the clearcoat which sort of makes since as we do it with cars right.

Either way I'm letting it sit for another 2 to 3 months and go from there. Lots of other things I still have to work on like recreating some of the plastics, buffing the steel....always something to take away from the "put it together" urges

That depends on the product. The spec sheets for the product will reveal the voc by percentage. A super high solid material will lose verry little of its film thickness.

I can only go by my experience with spraymax, it shrinks a lot.

but no more than other automotive clears.

I'm about to order a can of Spraymax 2K and test it on a piece of wood with some Createx paint before actually clear coating my White Water with it. I talked with an automotive spray shop before and don't really trust their 2PAC (Lesonal), because they told me they don't know how it would react on wood, making a face like . So I'd like more control, especially if I have to use drops for lower spots and sand everything myself the next day anyway.

Three questions:

- We don't have Naphtha over here, so I'm using Isopropyl alcohol 92% and 99,9%. Is that OK?

- Spraymax has a Silicone Remover & Degreaser. Would that be a good option to remove the stuff that creates fish eyes?

- What should I do with little cracks like the one in the picture? Luckily this one is under the White Water mountains and the ball doesn't go there, but I'd like to repair it nonetheless. I'm guessing sanding, using some wood filler, sanding some more, clear coating and touching it up with Createx paint before adding the next layers of clear coat?

Thanks!

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So Naptha is really just a type of zippo lighter fluid. I used camp fuel from automotive store called recochem camp fuel. Not Colman's as they add antirust and lubricants to their products. Any automotive paint store should be able to supply you with a pre-prep cleaner. Trick is to make sure your piant is fully cured and you apply the cleaner to the rag and not directly to the playfield. I made this mistake and ended up smearing some of my colors and having to redo.

2K in can on wood works fine. As long as its clean and scuffed up to bind. 2K does shrink as it cures and I'm seeing it on my playfield now that I cleared almost two months ago. Thanks to the people here and their advice. I left it before repopulating and now I know why. I'll have to re-sand and polish I'd say in the coming month.

The crack you have there. I'd get some wood glue in between the layers and clamp for a day or two so it dries well. The remove/sand an access glue and use a strong wood filler to fill any gaps. Let it dry well and sand flat. Once painted and cleared it should hold up fine.

I had a few spots like that as well and used the process I just mentioned. Worked fine. Think I used a two part wood filler though. Its putty stick and you cut what you need off it. Need it in your hands so its warm like playdough an then squeeze in the cracks. When dry its rock hard. You'll need to scuff up the area's so the wood filler has something to bite to.

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Actually… naptha is a bar of soap that is terrible for playfields
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Naphtha is the good stuff
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Banned for sale in CT now, I have to stock up when out of state.

Spray max works fine over Createx paints. One very important thing when using naphtha to clean over your painted areas, when wiping it down don't keep going over it again and again and again. you can easily go over a spot once with the wet naphtha rag but if you do it again and again you will start to remove the paint. Go over it once, wait 2 minutes and then you can do it again after it all evaporates.

Yeah I feel bad for you guys that live where its banned, this stuff is a necessity

Rapid-prep is nearly as good as Naptha, but takes a few minutes to dry. I blow the surface off completely after applying it with compressed air.

Its a very good cleaner for automotive paint use, I use it to control fish eyes.

Its very effective:

https://rapidtac.com/rapid-prep.html

Use it very sparingly as it removes paint marker and might lift createx paint.

I use it over clearcoat, bondo and primer mostly.

For a water based cleaner, its extremely powerful. But its non toxic and you can get it where Napthta is no longer available

I have never had a fish eye since using it.

Banned in my lame MD area too.

My Lowes and Home Depot in Colorado stopped carrying it a few months ago. Picked some up from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Klean-Strip-Surfaces-resistant-Centaurus-AZ/dp/B09LHWZ45V

i was going to ask if you can purchase outside and have it shipped. Smoke'm while you got'm itll be a matter of time before that gets shut down too

I use this stuff, too and really like it. It does lift Createx paint easily, though.

I started using it for a final wipe down, as I didnt trust that the naptha was pure and clean enough.

You have to go very easy over paint parker or touchups, or avoid those areas completely.

Automotive clear can be simple or annoyingly complex.

Even oddball chemical traces in a paper towel can affect it.

Rapid-prep is awsome to insure no silicones or strange left over chem traces.

After using it my clear flattens down perfectly and I never have trouble.

Playfields are hard to paint with clear as the have many different elements to cover, unlike say a car.

You have plastic inserts, touch up paint, keyline marker or decals, old silkscreen ink, 30 years of wax applied etc.

Its kind of a miricle that it actually adheres.

Rapid-prep seems to make everything clean for the clear to stick without applying a surface primer.

mrm_4 That bar of soap might do a great job on cleaning the playfield though

First coat I lightly sprayed and then waited 10 minutes or so. Sprayed heavier coat and waiting another 10 minutes then emptied the can. Waited a day or two and sand flat as best I could. After about a week I ruffed it up with a brown 3M pad and done some touch ups.

Than about a month after this first coat sprayed a second can in a similar matter but heavier. Waited a a few days and sanded flat and still low spots etc. Scuffed with 3M pad again and made sure playfield was scuffed well.

Think it was about a week after that sprayed my third can. Sprayed it heavy filling in all the areas. Waited 3 days or so and then started the sanding from 1000 to 3000 grit. Buffed with Novus two and thats where it sits. The sanding & buffing took a week or so.

Been about two months now and yes you can feel the dieback . Not bad but if you run you fingers over it you can feel the circles around the lens rings. Really fine but noticeable. I'm hoping I can just do a light sanding to remove them and buff again with novus.

Naptha = wasbenzine (Brico, Gamma enz) and is safe to use. Dont use alcohol, it can dissolve some clearcoats

There is a big chance you can do it if its not too deep.

I really think the best thing when doing clearcoat is to wait for moths before sanding it flat. I know its hard to wait when you want to get a project finished. But the waiting time is worth it in the long run.

The question you have to ask is it worth the effort?

If the dieback is so minor and will have no effect on gameplay is it better to just leave it? Up to you of course.

Yes thats what I'm leaning towards. If you run your finger over the lenses you can feel the little circles but not catching when pulling your nail across if you know what I mean.

I'm thinking if I use a paste wax it will help. Either way its a game that will be played at home. So really not that big an issue to be honest.

I think I could sand it enough not to worry about going to low. In all honesty thought it seems to be more like rings than concave indents. I might just leave it and wax when the time comes. I'm letting sit for another month or so and see if it gets worse and decide from there.

It just means that the edge of the insert wasn't sealed, so the clear is wicking down into the sides. It will be ok in home use (all wax will do is get jammed in there, though).

It depends on your goal on the PF if you want it "perfect" or "good enough". I usually go for good enough myself.

Perfect is very difficult to achieve indeed.

I’m learning from my mistakes as I go.

Strange though as the are all new inserts. I used 3M adhesion primary and two part epoxy to glue them in. Then used UV resin to seal any gaps an low spots. Painted and sealed with first layer clear months ago so I'm not sure why the clear would be wicking down when the first layer had already been applied.

I'm wondering if its the clear pulling the lenses....sort of like shrinking?

I'm good with the "Good Enough". If anything it will add some nuances to the game play if it gets worse.