(Topic ID: 109931)

The SprayMax 2K Auto Clear in a Can Club!

By Curbfeeler

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 8 days ago by Pin_Fandango
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There are 1,649 posts in this topic. You are on page 32 of 33.
#1551 5 months ago
istockphoto-458679721-612x612 (resized).jpg
#1552 5 months ago

Hahahahahahahaha I knew this would create some excitement around here

#1553 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

The next day after the first coat:
I block sand it down to start the flattening process and do my touch ups, keylines etc.
Then put on a light coat, then spray the paint into a jar and use a disposable pipette or dropper to fill all the low spots and insert edges.
Next day,block sand, then light coat, slpooge more clear into the low spots with a dropper, 2 meduim "wet" coats.
Next day flatten out the playfield by block sanding quite a bit to check for more low spots.
If its pretty flat, light coat, then a medium coat then 2 heavy "wet" finish coats. Basically a whole can.
If it looks mostly perfect, let it sit 6 to 10 weeks and assemble the playfield later.
If there is substantial die back at 6 weeks, block sand, fill low spots and put a heavy coat or 2 of paint.
Let it dry 4 weeks and then block sand to thin the paint a bit, then buff it out then start assembly.
The whole process is 3 or 4 cans of paint in 3 operations. 3 if all goes well enough.
1: mist coat to seal up loose fibers and give a foundation for touch ups
2: heavier filler coats.
3: finish coats.

Can you post some pictures of playfields you’ve restored with the processes you’ve posted in this thread please?

#1554 4 months ago
Quoted from radium:

Can you post some pictures of playfields you’ve restored with the processes you’ve posted in this thread please?

Im so sorry that I didnt take pictures of my work.

I will start doing it later on, Im doing a TAF right now.

#1555 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Im so sorry that I didnt take pictures of my work.
I will start doing it later on, Im doing a TAF right now.

Yeah show it off!

You doing 2K on your Addams? Mine’s in the queue but will probably use hvlp on it

2 weeks later
#1556 4 months ago

Found this in my paint cabinet. Forgot I bought it last year before I moved. How long is this stuff good for?

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#1557 4 months ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Found this in my paint cabinet. Forgot I bought it last year before I moved. How long is this stuff good for?
[quoted image]

Should be fine, I have used older.

#1558 4 months ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Found this in my paint cabinet. Forgot I bought it last year before I moved. How long is this stuff good for?
[quoted image]

pasted_image (resized).png
#1559 4 months ago

Wow 5 years is pretty good. Thanks guys!

#1560 4 months ago

Sprayed my first can of Spraymax 2k today. Outdoors Breathe-Cool PPE (https://www.turbineproducts.com/brands/Breathe%252dCool.html). Hood was pressurized but when I sprayed I could still catch a whiff of the stuff - kinda sweetish smelling. semicolin, is there a test to make sure I'm safe? I don't want to spray again until I know I'm not breathing this stuff. I didn't get the supplied air hood to get halfway protected.

#1561 4 months ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

Sprayed my first can of Spraymax 2k today. Outdoors Breathe-Cool PPE (https://www.turbineproducts.com/brands/Breathe%252dCool.html). Hood was pressurized but when I sprayed I could still catch a whiff of the stuff - kinda sweetish smelling. semicolin, is there a test to make sure I'm safe? I don't want to spray again until I know I'm not breathing this stuff. I didn't get the supplied air hood to get halfway protected.

Any chance the turbine intake was picking up the over spray from the Spraymax 2K? That is my worry with those systems is the inlet is grabbing whatever is around it.

#1562 4 months ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Any chance the turbine intake was picking up the over spray from the Spraymax 2K? That is my worry with those systems is the inlet is grabbing whatever is around it.

Yeah, that is very possible. It was a fairly breezy day. I've got 100' of hose so I'll make sure it is further away next time around.

#1563 4 months ago

BTW - what is the timing on safe exposure while the playfield is curing post spray?

#1564 4 months ago

I see a good deal on a respirator here: amazon.com link »

I have a noob question - what types of filter or cartridge would be needed to use this with applying Spraymax? What type of filter or catridge would be needed to use this with applying a "regular" spraypaint?

#1565 4 months ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

BTW - what is the timing on safe exposure while the playfield is curing post spray?

Not long once the propellants have vented out.

I have usally handle a playfield after a half hour.

#1566 4 months ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

Sprayed my first can of Spraymax 2k today. Outdoors Breathe-Cool PPE (https://www.turbineproducts.com/brands/Breathe%252dCool.html). Hood was pressurized but when I sprayed I could still catch a whiff of the stuff - kinda sweetish smelling. semicolin, is there a test to make sure I'm safe? I don't want to spray again until I know I'm not breathing this stuff. I didn't get the supplied air hood to get halfway protected.

There is a respirator test called a fit test that third parties would run for you. I don't recommend it for home use; it's more of a big-project-big-budget kind of solution.

If you could smell it, then you've got a seal problem or an intake problem. Next time before you spray, lick your finger, stick it in the air, and put your air intake on whichever side of your finger is coolest, as far away from you as possible.

#1567 4 months ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

I see a good deal on a respirator here: amazon.com link »
I have a noob question - what types of filter or cartridge would be needed to use this with applying Spraymax? What type of filter or catridge would be needed to use this with applying a "regular" spraypaint?

Post 798 lays it out in very good detail here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-spraymax-2k-auto-clear-in-a-can-club/page/16#post-5017384

There is no filter or cartridge that would make the half-mask respirator that you linked to safe, according to the manufacturer of Spraymax.

If using regular krylon spraypaint, a half-mask respirator with an OV/P100 combination cartridge and filter would be sufficient. Spraymax is nothing like regular spraypaint, in chemical composition or in application.

1 week later
#1568 3 months ago

Been thinking about getting the right equipment to use spray max safely. Based on what I've read here I want to go with a full face mask with air coming in via a hose form a distance away.

A few here have mentioned using the $50-ish kit that allows a standard oil free compressor to as an air source. I'm a little leary about breathing air from a tool compressor. The cheapest OSHA approved air pump I could find is listed below. Anyone have any experience with this unit?

amazon.com link »

Yeah it costs about $150 more than a cheap compressor with the filter kit but I don't mind spending that if I know the air will be safe to breath.

They also make a mask that's designed to work with their air pump. Not thw cheaest option out there but I like that the faceplate is replacable and air hose goes behind you and out of the way.

amazon.com link »

I've also seen the $160-ish version listed below that comes with a mask and it's own pump. You have buy your own hose to make it longer so the pump part is far enough away from where you are spraying. Some reviews state the mask is very small. Some say the gasket part that goes around your face is stiff and rigid so its hard to get a good seal around your face. Having a sealed comforatable fit is the primary job of the mask so those features need to work.

Anyone using this version and can comment on those complaints?

amazon.com link »

Thanks

#1569 3 months ago

I’ve never tried it, but I was wondering if you could use the output side of a cheap $20 shop vac to push air into a respirator. Might have to find a way to regulate how much flow goes to the mask. Do you think this would work, er no?

#1570 3 months ago
Quoted from jasonspoint28:

I’ve never tried it, but I was wondering if you could use the output side of a cheap $20 shop vac to push air into a respirator. Might have to find a way to regulate how much flow goes to the mask. Do you think this would work, er no?

I did something similar about five years ago. I used a vacuum cleaner motor that had a plastic blower mounted on a shaft isolated from the motor. I built an enclosure so the motor was kept separate from the blower, and used PVC hose for the air supply lines. It seemed fine, I only sprayed two playfields with it before we moved. Once I got it dialed in there were no fumes. Was it safe or smart? No idea.

I would still just buy a purpose-built unit if you can because that seems safest. They come up on eBay sometimes.

#1571 3 months ago
Quoted from docquest:I've also seen the $160-ish version listed below that comes with a mask and it's own pump. You have buy your own hose to make it longer so the pump part is far enough away from where you are spraying. Some reviews state the mask is very small. Some say the gasket part that goes around your face is stiff and rigid so its hard to get a good seal around your face. Having a sealed comforatable fit is the primary job of the mask so those features need to work.
Anyone using this version and can comment on those complaints?
amazon.com link »

I don’t see any benefit to this versus the 3M masks people typically use. With chem masks all that matters is that they fit and seal perfectly, that the cartridge is rated for isocyanates, and that you use fresh cartridges.

Quoted from docquest:

Been thinking about getting the right equipment to use spray max safely. Based on what I've read here I want to go with a full face mask with air coming in via a hose form a distance away.
A few here have mentioned using the $50-ish kit that allows a standard oil free compressor to as an air source. I'm a little leary about breathing air from a tool compressor. The cheapest OSHA approved air pump I could find is listed below. Anyone have any experience with this unit?
amazon.com link »

Haven’t seen this one. If you go this route, by the time you add mask and hose you’re already in range of buying a turbine supplied air unit like the HobbyAir or Breathecool that is better known.

There is no way I would breathe compressor air regardless of how it’s filtered.

#1572 3 months ago
Quoted from radium:

I don’t see any benefit to this versus the 3M masks people typically use. With chem masks all that matters is that they fit and seal perfectly, that the cartridge is rated for isocyanates, and that you use fresh cartridges.

Haven’t seen this one. If you go this route, by the time you add mask and hose you’re already in range of buying a turbine supplied air unit like the HobbyAir or Breathecool that is better known.
There is no way I would breathe compressor air regardless of how it’s filtered.

I breath compressor air all the time, cleaner than the air I used to breath in diesel shops.

Its just compressed outside air, if you have that much compressor oil in the air stream you are long past the point of compressor overhaul.

#1573 3 months ago

If I had the choice, I would much rather breathe compressor air through a belt pack filter than breathe in aerosolized 2K through an expired OV/P100 cartridge.

I'll reuse OV/P100 cartridges for weeks with regular spraypaint. The stuff in 2K starts chewing through filter media at first exposure and doesn't stop after you spray. At $20 per spray session for a pair of cartridges, I'll gobble up nearly $200 in cartridges alone on a single playfield. It's worth every penny, don't get me wrong, but none of us stopped collecting after our first pinball machine either, even if we promised we would. It makes economic sense to invest in supplied air.

#1574 3 months ago
Quoted from semicolin:

It makes economic sense to invest in supplied air.

Exactly my thoughts as I decided supplied air is the way to go vs a mask with filters on it.

But there seems to be a wide range of opinions from one end:

Quoted from radium:

There is no way I would breathe compressor air regardless of how it’s filtered.

To the other:

Quoted from gdonovan:

I breath compressor air all the time, cleaner than the air I used to breath in diesel shops.
Its just compressed outside air, if you have that much compressor oil in the air stream you are long past the point of compressor overhaul.

So I think i'll just spend a couple hundred more and get an OSHA approved air source vs just using a filter on a standard oil free tool compressor. In the grand scheme of things the extra cost is not that much more but will give me more peace of mind.

#1575 3 months ago
Quoted from docquest:

Exactly my thoughts as I decided supplied air is the way to go vs a mask with filters on it.
But there seems to be a wide range of opinions from one end:

To the other:

So I think i'll just spend a couple hundred more and get an OSHA approved air source vs just using a filter on a standard oil free tool compressor. In the grand scheme of things the extra cost is not that much more but will give me more peace of mind.

Air source is best- I got away from masks with filters as I had a fresh set that was bad and had a raging headache for 2 days. The filters will give you a false sense of security as even bad will suppress the smell but not the really bad compounds.

#1576 3 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

The filters will give you a false sense of security as even bad will suppress the smell but not the really bad compounds.

That’s a really good point. Cartridges are an expensive pain in the ass, just not worth dealing with them.

#1578 3 months ago

Those cartridges might protect you from sarin gas and nuclear fallout but don't protect you against 2K.

Cartridges are designed to protect against what they're expected to be used around. They have different chemical media in them that absorb or neutralize airborne contamination. That's why it's critical that users match their cartridges to the chemical contaminants listed on a manufacturer SDS.

4 weeks later
#1579 78 days ago

Hi folks,

I just applied my first light spray of Spraymax 2k on my Cyclone playield per what I've read in Vid's restoration guide and a LOT of posts on this thread. I sanded the playfield before with 800 grit to give some tooth for the first layer of clearcoat. After cleaning and leveling the playfield outside, I gave the playfield a light coat of clear about 6-10" away so that I can apply my new water slide decals over the new inserts (which I replaced all of them). Keep in mind I am in FL and it is pretty humid.

My issue now is I see orange peel across the whole playfield (see pictures). I also have some droplets here and there. Did I apply too much clear or not enough? Do I wet sand the entire playfield now with 800-1000 grit prior to applying the water slide decals?

Thank you very much for your help.
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#1580 78 days ago

It is hard to tell from the photos but that sure looks like too light a coat. It did not flow out since there was not enough clear. I assume the drops look more normal?

#1581 78 days ago
Quoted from rdrapeau3171:

Hi folks,
I just applied my first light spray of Spraymax 2k on my Cyclone playield per what I've read in Vid's restoration guide and a LOT of posts on this thread. I sanded the playfield before with 800 grit to give some tooth for the first layer of clearcoat. After cleaning and leveling the playfield outside, I gave the playfield a light coat of clear about 6-10" away so that I can apply my new water slide decals over the new inserts (which I replaced all of them). Keep in mind I am in FL and it is pretty humid.
My issue now is I see orange peel across the whole playfield (see pictures). I also have some droplets here and there. Did I apply too much clear or not enough? Do I wet sand the entire playfield now with 800-1000 grit prior to applying the water slide decals?
Thank you very much for your help.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image]

I ran into a lot of the same issues here in Florida. It sets up too quickly here to flow out as nicely as it does in cooler drier climates. Here is my last 2K resto documented here
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/if-florida-were-a-pinball-machine-aka-my-first-gottlieb#post-6486655

#1582 77 days ago

Thank you guys for the responses. I posted on Vid's restoration page and he helped me out. Take a look here at what I posted and his responses. He was a great help...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/160#post-6949189

#1583 77 days ago

Guys,

My decals are installed. (btw there were not water slide, they were regular stick on decals...urghh). Since I clear coated my playfield this morning, how long do I have to apply the next clear coat over the decals without having adhesion issues between coats?

Reason I ask it is about 90 degrees here and humid. Can I afford to wait till early tomorrow morning?

Thank you.

#1584 75 days ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

I ran into a lot of the same issues here in Florida. It sets up too quickly here to flow out as nicely as it does in cooler drier climates. Here is my last 2K resto documented here
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/if-florida-were-a-pinball-machine-aka-my-first-gottlieb#post-6486655

Hey Bigguybbr,

I looked at your thread...nice job on that machine. Am I wrong, you used an orbital sander on your clear coated playfield? If so, where did you get the 10,000grit sand paper for that?

#1585 75 days ago

Maybe you mean 1000 grit? Abranet mesh discs.

#1586 75 days ago

No, on his thread he actually shows that he sanded his playfield with varying grits, like 2000, then 3000, 4000 etc. all the way up to 10,000

#1587 75 days ago
Quoted from rdrapeau3171:

No, on his thread he actually shows that he sanded his playfield with varying grits, like 2000, then 3000, 4000 etc. all the way up to 10,000

You can find it all over, but here is some that is sold on Amazon

amazon.com link »

#1588 75 days ago

Maybe the whole respirator mask / iso conversation is more of a 'cover my a$$' on the mask manufacturer than actually whether the mask is capable of filtering iso or not?

http://chess-safety.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/0406_respirators_isocyanates_spray_painting.pdf

#1589 75 days ago

If I could avoid using the DA polisher and just random orbital it up to 10,000 that would be sweet.

#1590 75 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

If I could avoid using the DA polisher and just random orbital it up to 10,000 that would be sweet.

I still used a da polisher with some light finishing compound after letting it cure for a few weeks

#1591 74 days ago

Wouldn't a random orbital work just as well?

#1592 74 days ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Maybe the whole respirator mask / iso conversation is more of a 'cover my a$$' on the mask manufacturer than actually whether the mask is capable of filtering iso or not?
http://chess-safety.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/0406_respirators_isocyanates_spray_painting.pdf

A playfield is small enough where I just hold my breath during each coat and then walk away before exhaling. I still wear a generic respirator, goggles, gloves, and a long sleeve shirt, and spray in the garage with the garage door open... but I don't wear the whole bunny suit with air extraction.

Quoted from rdrapeau3171:

Wouldn't a random orbital work just as well?

A random orbital will work. A $2.99 bonnet drill attachment from Harbor Freight works fine, just don't burn the clear coat but a playfield is small and flat so it's easier to work on than a vehicle's body panels. At most, buy the Meguiar's dual action drill attachment. I wouldn't waste money on a $400 unit unless you're doing dozens of playfields.

#1593 74 days ago

Even though I was outside, I wore the whole bunny suit when I clear coated my playfield along with a 3M respirator, nitrile cloves, face shield, etc. Clear is nasty so I was not going to take any chances.

The Meguiars dual action attachment looks nice but not cheap (over $55).

After the clearcoat is hardened, any one have a good process to polish the playfield and what kind of bonnets etc to use?

#1594 74 days ago

I wet sand up to 1500 or 2000 grit then use my Porter-Cable DA polisher with Meguiars M105 and finish with M205.

Find I have to polish pretty long and really apply pressure to get rid of all scratches. Am I waiting too long before polishing or is this just the way it is?

#1595 74 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

I wet sand up to 1500 or 2000 grit then use my Porter-Cable DA polisher with Meguiars M105 and finish with M205.
Find I have to polish pretty long and really apply pressure to get rid of all scratches. Am I waiting too long before polishing or is this just the way it is?

that is because you are using a very VERY weak DA free spinning polisher, you will polish with that DA but it will take VERYYYYY LOONG to achieve the same results you would with a force rotation DA but in 1/10th of the time. It really is the way to go.

Do not use that, instead, sell it and spend a little more in a professional tool like a FLEX 3401 or anything force rotation from Makita or other brand name. If you You will not burn through the paint with a DA force rotation

I have hundreds of hours behind a polisher and that DA you are using is just a very poor choice if you valuate your time. Y
Once you try force rotation you will understand.

A rotary polisher is the next step but it requires excellent technique and it is really not required for a one off like we do. HEP uses a rotary and that is fine, but you need to understand that beast well if you are going to use it.

#1596 74 days ago

It’s model 7424XP. Maybe I’ll upgrade!

#1597 74 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

It’s model 7424XP. Maybe I’ll upgrade!

Yup, the most common one. This machine is great when you want to polish something every weekend by removing the absolute minimum clear. Because it is free spinning you cannot and should not add any pressure or it stalls.
It will polish but it is just too slow for the amount of polish you need to do, which is a lot to try to come back from this amount of haze/scratch removal.

You will thank me once you do switch over! The flex is an awesome polishing machine.

#1598 71 days ago

So at sunrise, about 6:15am, I took a 2" x 4", shot some clear on it. After 20 mins flash I placed a decal on it. After about 20 mins, I gave a mist of clear coat over decal #1. I waited 20 mins to flash, then gave another coat on decal #1 so it would be glossy per Vid's advice. After about 20-30 mins, I thought I saw a small section of the black ink on the edge of the decal start to ripple, so I decided to be safe and to test against two more decals.

I added decal #2 and #3. Gave them all a mist coat waited 20 mins to flash. Gave them all a 2nd mist coat and waited 20 mins to flash. I then gave them all a 3rd coat so the decals are glossy. After another 20 mins flash, decal #2 and #3 bubbled (see picture). I am at a lose as to why decal #1 is ok, and #2 and #3 bubbled. I am very worried that this will happen when I do my playfield.

Any ideas? I am in FL and maybe the rise in humidity between 6:15am and 8:30am is what caused this? It was pretty humid when I started though.

Thank you for your help.
bubbling (resized).png

#1599 71 days ago

The clear needs time to outgas; much longer than 20 min. And it can't outgas properly thru a decal. I generally allow a week between laying clear and putting on decals, but you may be able to get by with less. It's not the clear on top of the decals that's causing the issues, it's the clear underneath them.
The 2nd and 3rd decals are worse because they have 3 layers of clear under them (therefore more outgassing), whereas your first decal only had one.

#1600 71 days ago
Quoted from rdrapeau3171:

So at sunrise, about 6:15am, I took a 2" x 4", shot some clear on it. After 20 mins flash I placed a decal on it. After about 20 mins, I gave a mist of clear coat over decal #1. I waited 20 mins to flash, then gave another coat on decal #1 so it would be glossy per Vid's advice. After about 20-30 mins, I thought I saw a small section of the black ink on the edge of the decal start to ripple, so I decided to be safe and to test against two more decals.
I added decal #2 and #3. Gave them all a mist coat waited 20 mins to flash. Gave them all a 2nd mist coat and waited 20 mins to flash. I then gave them all a 3rd coat so the decals are glossy. After another 20 mins flash, decal #2 and #3 bubbled (see picture). I am at a lose as to why decal #1 is ok, and #2 and #3 bubbled. I am very worried that this will happen when I do my playfield.
Any ideas? I am in FL and maybe the rise in humidity between 6:15am and 8:30am is what caused this? It was pretty humid when I started though.
Thank you for your help.
[quoted image]

That's faster than I tend to work even around here with the Florida heat and humidity where it sets up fast. I let the base coat sit at least overnight before applying a decal.

Another question is what kind of decals are you using? Did you move to the thinnest waterslide decals you can find, or are you still using the self adhesive?

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